[arp1]

It seems to me that there are many more women here with MLC H's than vice versa and most of the resources/linked articles seem to be written from that point of view. With that in mind, I wondered if anyone had seen this article:

http://divorcesupport.about.com/od/isdivorcethesolution/f/menwomen_crisis.htm

distinguishing between male & female MLC? Does anyone think this is generally true? Personally, I think this is far too simplistic/black & white.

My wife swears that she isn't afraid of growing older, dying or getting ill, but she appears to me to be fearful because of the menopause changes in her body, friends/colleagues who've had cancer in their 40s/50s and her B-IL's death at 54. Do women with strong careers also have the fear of not attaining their goals like male counterparts? One thing my W has complained about is her frustration with getting to certain points in her career where she'd got some degree of influence and then had the rug pulled from under her just when she thought she could start to make a difference.

The stuff about what kind of person might be susceptible to MLC does seems to fit. Though my wife has a career, she has no hobbies, has spent the last several years dealing with her family's strife and bereavements, supporting her niece and sister, supporting me while dealing with my family bereavements, being a working mother plus facing redundancy then becoming, by default, a figure head at work and trying to lead her colleagues into a new 'era' of income generation in the shaken-up UK public services. It doesn't excuse the MLC behaviour (EA with OM, spewing, rewriting history, etc), but I can see why the void has opened up.

 

[StandandDeliver]

I could be way off the mark here arp, but I think that more men that women do have MLC and it is because of the way that men and women respond to depression. Women are more likely to have OVERT depression and men are more likely to cover up depression and it becomes COVERT. Overt depression can be seen, dealt with and treated. By its nature, covert depression remains unseen and is evidenced by the sorts of "antidotes" the person seeks to run from the darkness and alleviate the bad feelings. Of course, the gender differences are not definitive, some men will have overt depression and some women's will go covert.

There is a link about this somewhere, I will try to find it for you...

[OldPilot]

Yes I have seen this article and it has been a while since I read it but I believe that it is absolutely true.

Contrary to this website more women file for divorce than men and I do not believe it is because there husbands are cheating on them.

I believe that all people(men and women)  go  through a transition and I believe both men and women are just as likely to divorce at this time.

But I am not going to argue about the statistics.

As far as what your wife says.

Believe none of what they say and 50% of what they do.

Nothing changes and now is not the time to believe her.

[arp1]

Thanks SandD,

Yes, how one deals with depression could be it and this may explain my W to some degree.

She's one of those people who does tend to internalise things and think she can do it all on her own, no help, to meds, no support, e.g. the menopause - it's all mind over matter with her, child birth - no pain killers, grief - no counselling. Rather than talking about things she writes poems for herself, but doesn't show them to me. I think she has cycled between overt and covert depression actually: sometimes she'll be completely withdrawn and unreachable, physically slow, fatigued, etc, and then there is the energy when she's seen the OM. Hmmmm...

[Dontgiveup]

Arp

There's a lot of information out there that talks about MLC in terms of aging, afraid of getting old/dying, unfulfilled dreams, etc.  Those things are all correct, but they are symptoms of MLC.

Symptoms
•Preoccupation or fear of aging or death
•Vanity: Obsession with appearance
•Dissatisfaction with previous goals
•Life of Accommodation has left him feeling trapped
•Impulsive or Compulsive Behaviour
•Irritability
•Restlessness
•Substance abuse
The above list is comprised of symptoms, not causes. Aging does not cause midlife crisis--it is inevitable; midlife crisis is not. Since midlife crisis seems to be isolated to technologically advanced Western cultures lacking in ritual rites of passage, ageism is often blamed, but it is also not a cause of midlife crisis; rather it is an incubator, providing ideal cultural conditions. Symptoms are outward manifestations, not the cause of the crisis. It is in the extremes of these behaviours and their opposing difference from a person's stasis that we find crises.

[StandandDeliver]

Hmmm, can't find the article - maybe someone knows where it is?

[zinger]

I know that in jed Diamonds books he talks about the different ways depression is manifested in men and women.

The article cited by arp1 says

People who live their lives fulfilling their dreams and with a purpose are less likely to experience a crisis at midlife. A man or woman who is able to meet their own needs while, at the same time meet the needs of their spouse will more than likely find the transition into midlife easy.

This doesn't seem to fully mesh with theories that say it has to do with unresolved loss/abandonment in childhood.  It seems like the above quote is a more superficial analysis of the cause of MLC when it may be actually one of the symptoms--having the "feeling" like something is missing and they must go in search of more fulfilling lifestyles (and partners).  Or, perhaps this is true for those experiencing a more mild mid life transition.  I know that my H has said he feels like he hasn't been true to himself but truthfully, he has his dream job for which I have made tons of sacrifices to accomodate.  In his narcisstic MLC state, he somehow sees himself as the victim who hasn't been taking care of himself . 

[arp1]

Zinger,

The quote from that article,

People who live their lives fulfilling their dreams and with a purpose are less likely to experience a crisis at midlife. A man or woman who is able to meet their own needs while, at the same time meet the needs of their spouse will more than likely find the transition into midlife easy.

seems true for me, i.e. I have fulfilled my dreams/needs with my career, wife, family and lifestyle and I thought I had fulfilled some of my W's needs too: children, family. Equally, I had thought that my W could or had fulfilled some or her own dreams/needs, i.e. children and career. Now it seems nothing is enough for her - she wants "more". She has always had these stock phrases about herself: "I told you I was high maintenance", "I want it all". It seems like she will never be satisfied with what she has or can achieve. 

DGU: the substance abuse is certainly a worrying symptom of MLC and is an indicator of depression too. My W is 'using' alcohol noticeably more: large glasses of wine and/or beer almost every night. Her family was steeped (or should that be soaked  ) in an alcohol culture and her B-IL died from alcohol-related disease - when things were wrong, reach for a bottle; when things weren't wrong, still get p***ed just for the hell of it. But I bet if I raised a concern I'd be shot down immediately because she sees it as normal  .  The UK government has guidelines on acceptable 'units' of alcohol for men and women. For women it 14 units/week, but I reckon she's easily at 18-20/week right now. 

[StandandDeliver]

arp, there is no reason why your wife's crisis could not be about both feelings of unfulfillment and unresolved issues from when younger. After all, it sounds like your wife is someone who thinks there is something that could fulfill her, but does not seem to know what that is - why is that? Could there be an attitude in her family background that makes her unable to enjoy her existing achievements?

For instance, my H has a lovely supportive family in many ways, but I do know that nothing he ever did career wise elicited praise and acknowledgement from his father, ever. In fact his father was often combative and competitive with him and was quick to make remarks that took H "down a peg or two". H therefore spent much of his early adulthood focused on proving himself to his father, but when he felt that he had finally done that as far as possible, he did not know what his goals in life ought to be, how to define himself after that and why it didn't feel better to have "shown" his father that he was more than capable. It turned out he had been living life following hollow goals.

I believe some of his MLC stemmed from that as well as his inability to stand up to his very kind, but overinvolved mother.

It is all very messy and complicated and we will probably never really know the full reasons why a MLC happens to one person and not to another.

[arp1]

SandD,

After all, it sounds like your wife is someone who thinks there is something that could fulfill her, but does not seem to know what that is - why is that? Could there be an attitude in her family background that makes her unable to enjoy her existing achievements?

Maybe. Her father always wanted her to be in business in some way, but she chose teaching; they had very different political views too: him true blue Tory (think Republican) and her staunch Labour (think Democrat). At first, he was very dismissive - trotted out the old adage, "those that can do, those that can't, teach" - but he did eventually express his admiration for her career achievements, though I don't think he understood what on earth she actually did!

She does also seem to have a "thing" about people 'stepping up' and meeting expectations. Her eldest sister always felt like she failed her parents because she never had the perfect marriage or children, but I didn't think my W had that same trait. This was touched on by the first Relate counsellor we saw, but she didn't want to go back over her family past.