[Arcticfox]

Almost everybody knows that we are separating and he has midlife crisis. Some know more. Since he announced that he is moving out, I saw no reason to keep it a secret any more. These are my relatives and this situation could be more than a little awkward for H… but I trust the people to be civil it is my niece’s party after all.

Unfortunately we only have one car and it is kind of difficult to get there otherwise.

OTOH I have only twice seen a monster that actually scared me. Almost all the time he is more polite and friendly than normally (he used to be a bit cranky) and like ”sorry that things went this way” so the drive SHOULD be okay.

[TheShore]

This is odd.

Two days ago I was so angry at H.

Yesterday I was teary-eyed for most if the time (although I try to hide my tears from him).

As I woke up today, probably the first time since BD the first thought on my mind wasn’t ”how can this nightmare be true that he will abandon me?”. Instead my first conscious thought was that I cannot remember how it felt to trust him. Not just that I do not trust him anymore and I used to rely on him 100%. But I can’t even remember how it felt.

I guess this is progress although it does not actually make me happy that this is the direction I must head. Today I have mostly felt at peace no matter what the future brings.

I hope that I can remember this calm and strong feeling when the next angry or sad or desperate day comes (probably tomorrow  )

Your comments about trust and reliability really hit home for me as well.  I can totally relate - the trust is almost completely gone and it’s sad in a way.  My expectations for my W are none and/or nothing surprises me anymore.  Your feelings are validated from me 👍🏻

[OffRoad]

I am going to ask some things Treasur has referred to, but I've not seen answers and I might have missed them. I am also going to ask a few more questions you NEED  to know the answers to.

Have you moved half of any saved money to your own, personal account?
Do you have legal representation/help?
Is there anything in place for child support when he's "not available " for more weeks than he is available?
Do you have your own means of income?
Do you trust him to only take his own items from the house if you are not there?
With only one car, what will you do for transportation when he is not available and has the car?

UM mentioned earlier that MLCers go through money like water. Mine went through $20,000 usd in one month. He had no idea where it went. (I had already separated our finances). When he moved out, he took many things that were personally mine. And then he'd sneak in when I wasn't home to take more until I changed the lock. I had our son (D was away at college) 97% of the time, and he never paid child support. Ever. I hadn't been employed full time for 14 years, and had to go find a job that worked with being able to drop and pick up my son from school.  I had to scrimp to get D through her last year of college.

I tell you these things because, as was previously said, the man you knew does not exist at this time and maybe never will again. It doesn't matter what you do, you can jump through every hoop he throws at you and it will not be enough. You don't smile enough? If you did then it would be you smile too much. That is how an MLCer mind works. You will see glimpses of the man you knew, but they are fleeting.  Place no importance on it.

So what should you do? Take care of yourself and the kids, in every way you can. Divide money evenly, keep your half safe. You cannot trust your H right now. If he should come back from MLC he'll be glad you saved some of the money. Make sure you continue to have good times with the kids. And think long and hard about "making" the kids go to their fathers. Give them time to adjust and grieve the loss of their family unit.

You can stand for your marriage, but an MLCer is an out of control freight train, imo. Make sure you are standing to the side and not in the direct path.

Keep the focus on protecting yourself and your kids.

[Treasur]

Almost everybody knows that we are separating and he has midlife crisis. Some know more. Since he announced that he is moving out, I saw no reason to keep it a secret any more. These are my relatives and this situation could be more than a little awkward for H… but I trust the people to be civil it is my niece’s party after all.

Unfortunately we only have one car and it is kind of difficult to get there otherwise.

OTOH I have only twice seen a monster that actually scared me. Almost all the time he is more polite and friendly than normally (he used to be a bit cranky) and like ”sorry that things went this way” so the drive SHOULD be okay.

Good that you have told people. They don’t need to know every detail imho but it is harder for people to support you and the kids if they don’t know some of the facts.

Again jmo the one car issue….is it in your name or his?….if you are determined to share the drive, then I’d encourage YOU to regain a little control by being the driver. But tbh, if the car is yours, he can afford to buy or rent one if he could afford to set up a new apartment, right? And if the car is his, you will need your own car when he moves out, right? And if the car is shared, and he or you have some rough idea that this will continue, I’d encourage you to think again…you really don’t want to be relying on these folks to keep their word or for anything important, sharing it will make reduced contact harder and I doubt you’d like to drive around in something that may serve as his part-time ow lurve taxi!

We do get it. Right now your brain is struggling to balance the h that was with the h you see right in front of you now. And you really, really want to believe in the reality of the h that was so you have a default lean towards the ‘old’ way of doing things, like sharing the drive to a family event. Maybe you’re even a bit frightened of rocking the boat even more by changing things or by how he might react when/if you start saying No to things?

We’ve all been there so we do get it.
All we can share is our hard-earned experience that, if someone can choose to move out after decades and be obviously hoping to pursue ow (or have already done so), they are focused on their wants not your needs. Regardless of their words, they don’t actually care much about what happens to you right now and it is safer and wiser to set up things in a way which allows you to be as independent of them as possible. And truthfully, that is the pretty predictable consequence that comes along with someone choosing to leave, isn’t it? Lots of things, big and small, will have to be done differently and grasping that early on protects you from more chaos and positions you just as well if you choose to stand or not. He’s leaving…so you are allowed to accept that reality and adapt how you live accordingly.

[Arcticfox]

Thank you TheShore, Offroad and Treasur!

It is slowly sinking in, bit by bit, that the man I knew and loved is gone. I am here at the cabin with someone who looks like him, acts mostly like him but is a complete stranger and does not care a lot about what happens to me.

I will try to answer the questions.

Have you moved half of any saved money to your own, personal account?
Do you have legal representation/help?
Is there anything in place for child support when he's "not available " for more weeks than he is available?
Do you have your own means of income?
Do you trust him to only take his own items from the house if you are not there?
With only one car, what will you do for transportation when he is not available and has the car?

We both have x amount of money invested for old age, this was to help with pension. Then I have half of the cottage which is worth y. And he has y amount of money that he has aquired by investing secretly from me. (WTH?!) they are in separate accounts. The sum x is not life changing but would take me through 2-3 years with no other income. House is owned 50-50 and only half of the mortgage has been paid off. If one of us were to file for divorce the assets would be divided 50/50 and then it would be his problem if he spends down all he has. As we are still officially married, if he wastes all his money he is entitled to half of what I own. But I will not be responsible for his debts. So yeah I should probably file right away. But don’t wanna do that  :'(

(He hasn’t actually wanted to do that, has twice monstered at me ”let’s file immediately” and when I answered in shock ”okay if that’s what you want” his answer has been ”no I don’t want that!” )

As for legal representation i have avoided answering the question as I haven’t contacted a lawyer yet and I know I should. Also afraid of what it will cost. I did get recommendations from relatives for two lawyers but the one I would have preferred will have a baby and be on maternity leave for nobody knows how long. As I come home i must contact the other lawyer. I do not really know what to ask them? How to protect my half of the cabin, at least. 

I have my own means of income, i work in healthcare and have reasonably good wage but the job is physically taxing. I have stayed at home w/ the kids for 7 years as they were small but at the moment I have worked 3.5 days a week, at two different places. I did manage to get some extra shifts at one of the places for the time being. I like the arrangement I have at the moment, but maybe need to look for a full time job at some point. This should not be a problem except for my back pain.

I do trust H to take only his items? We have so much stuff. More concerned that he will leave so much of his stuff! But if he takes something that is important and valuable to me, well then that just tells me more about him doesn’t it? We don’t really have much valuables.

As for the car it’s ownership is in his name but as we are married it is in practice both of ours. I have been using it the majority of time. Because I have been taking the kids everywhere and running errands. He has taken the bus to work. I have frankly assumed that the car will stay in my yard and use. He doesn’t like the car it is a SUV. But if he takes it I can get a cheap new (used) car. My other workplace where I will now work 1-3 times a week is too far by public transport. I wouldn’t like to share the car on a who needs it today basis like we have done. I would prefer NC except for the kids business. I think as for the car we can see how things move forward. H also made some noises about buying an Audi or a Mercedes-Benz… because they are such reliable cars (he has never been the kind of man who is interested in cars, who is this stranger?)

And Treasur you are so right, my brain is struggling to keep up with reality. Thank you guys for pushing me onwards! Because there s no going back.

Edited to add: there is no way to make him pay anything as long as we are not divorced. As far as I know the law just expects married people to take care of each other. After filing for D Iwould get something but it is hard to calculate. Depends also on how much they will stay at their dad’s in reality. I am so lucky to have my own profession. And there are some relatives who can support to some measure. Me and the kids won’t end up begging in a gutter at least.

And I will not force them to go to their dad’s place. The 14 year old is quite angry. Other two are trying to be so nice to him. It breaks my heart. None of the kids want any counseling! I wonder if I should make them go, and at what point.

[Treasur]

I’m guessing you feel pretty overwhelmed right now and your head is buzzing with questions and problems.

I’m assuming too - bc it’s textbook - that your h is moving out in a few days and has NOT laid out a proposed written plan on how he thinks finances and practicalities might work in this new ‘separated but still married’ state? The fact that even something as small (but important) as the car uncertainty leads me to assume that, but of course I could be wrong. Am I?

And realistically, if YOU have proposed a plan, I imagine that a) getting his serious attention is difficult and b) you want to trust his word and good intentions, but are no longer sure you can. That is quite reasonable of course bc if someone reneges on big promises, it is foolish to assume they will not renege on smaller ones….when someone breaks trust, the onus is on them to show that they can be trusted again not the other way round! (Although MLC folks are staggeringly self-centred and tend not to think this way lol)

So I’m going to suggest you change your short-term window and adopt a triaging mindset. And it is often necessary, in order to triage anything as you know professionally, to get more information.
Therefore I’d suggest that is the purpose of talking to a lawyer.
Information only.
You don’t have to follow their advice. You don’t even have to retain them or use them if further down the line you decide you need a lawyer.
Just information.

From the cheap seats over here, it sounds as if you need to know how the law where you live treats separation legally and financially. What your options are, and the legal and financial risks or benefits of different options. What you are allowed to legally say No or Not Now to. And what your kid’s legal rights are to say the same. And finally what legally enforceable obligations and rights your h has a parent and co-owner of various big assets once he moves out. That’s it.

That’s it.
Information only.

We get it. We understand how heart-wrenching it is to go to see a lawyer and have a discussion you never imagined yourself having. And knowing that they have seen it all a hundred times before whilst to you this is your h, your family and your life…and you are so hoping that your situation will not turn out like those hundreds of other cases. (I cried continuously through my first meeting with my lawyer and tbh I was still in deep shock. Which made information-gathering a bit harder as my brain wasn’t at its best - if I could go back and redo it, I would have taken a friend to be my spare brain!)

So, just think of it as triage information.
And just like a medical triage, there are probably some basic standard bits of information you need, right? Maybe start with a list of 10 bits of info you think you need and write them down?
Keep it simple. Keep it factual.
Just see it as information-gathering. Xxx

[forthetrees]

Some possible questions for the lawyer:

Is it worth documenting the back pain? I ask bc maybe that shows a limitation in the number of days you are expected to work or for how many more years

Is it worth documenting your current standard of living PRIOR to taking on more hours? I ask bc in the US it would factor into alimony and child support payments.

How can you secure the cabin? Does it matter if it was yours prior to marriage or received as inheritance after getting married?

How do you account for the monies that he kept hidden? Do you strike while the iron is hot and he hasn´t yet spent that on mid-life "must haves"?

Is there the ability to be legally separated but not yet divorced? Would that safeguard you from his debts and safeguard your monies?

As a stranger many miles away I beg of you to get the legal advice that will secure your financial future in the sturdiest way EVEN IF it means you being the one to file for separation or divorce. I know that the fear is that if you file he will interpret it as done forever but they are so frikin wishy washy in their thinking that you have to do what is best for you. If you do file, you could say that you did it in order to ensure that they kids have security and that if he makes his way back your door is open. I don´t know if this image helps or is even applicable but it is what has come to mind: Your marriage is a boat. For some reason he pulled the plug in the bottom of the boat. Water is pouring in. Do you wait for him to say put on life jackets since he´s the one who caused the crisis or do you act in your best interest to save yourself and the kids? It is time to deal with the reality of the now and that means doing whatever it takes to protect yourself.

[Arcticfox]

Thank you again Treasur and forthetrees!

All the comments on this thread are so good, I keep going back and rereading them.

I guess I need to be a grown woman and lawyer up. I will schedule a meeting with the second lawyer that was recommended to me. Very good points and ideas for what to discuss with the lawyer. Will write them up and take notepaper and pen with me. And I will also stare the beast in the eye and calculate a monthly budget for me and the kids living in our house.

I have been feeling so overwhelmed and bewildered (and frankly beaten and stomped on even though there has been NO physical violence) that it is hard to function but this is something that needs to be done soon. I have been concentrating on my feelings and emotional survival but this Forum has helped me so much you don´t believe it (or maybe you do) and I realize it is time to think of finances going forward. (The biggest impact this charade has on the boys, but I cannot even let those thougts enter my consciousness or I become so mad that *I* want to divorce immediately and break things and scream! But seeing the lawyer is also helping the kids.)

H does not indeed have any written or verbal plan, originally after BD he was like: i will rent a cheap small studio and go there to think about my life and probably drink awful lot and become so depressed I can´t work. (BD was after WW had the same day told H that she doesn´t want PA and she has repeated that at a later date).

Okay so I said that you are a father and that isn´t possible. He then thought he would come visit the kids ar our house. I told him he can´t just come and go as he pleases and date women or drink all the rest of the time. I suggested living in the house week/week and getting the studio for him for every other week and on his child weeks I could have stayed at my parents´. So the kids could live at home all the time. Of course this wasn´t what he wants as he could not then have made it appear to WW that we are divorced. So, he ended up getting a bigger flat and agreeing on a week/week arrangement. I agreed because at that point I was so mad and thought I need child-free time to date too. I have since changed my mind and would like to have the boys more, as him having them so much is only going to make running the everyday life more difficult and I know he is not up to doing half of the life admin. Oh well, i need to step back as much as possible and only intervene if it looks like one of the kids will truly suffer. A missed friend´s birthday or going to school at the wrong time and missing a field trip will not be my responsibility on dad week.

H has no plan for finances, car, dog, anything! If I try to discuss he will be demanding more and more to himself or accusing me of greediness so I have stopped discussing these things with him. I am kinda hoping that he will keep paying the mortgage and leave the car if we just don´t discuss things any more. (I know seeing a lawyer will help.) It seems he just needs to run away from me in some kind of panic? (Funny that he can spend time as family at the cabin however?)

Also at the cottage H is almost all the time like his old self, but his brain is NOT functioning normally. For example two days ago I was playing chess with S8 (now 9). H came to observe. H is better at chess than me or the kid, but as he would comment on our moves he couldn´t keep it in his mind for two moves who is playing white and who is playing black? Ok I don´t know is his brain is just this messed up, or if he is thinking of WW and/or the tinder women all the time, but that is not normal for him. He is normally very good at board games and math and can concentrate totally on stuff like that. There have been several instances when he cannot count a simple thing like 5+4+2 is more than 6+3? He practically did math for a living before his new position at work!

[UrsaMajor]

@ things struck me....

First - Your MLCH is now inhabited by this guy (you have to be a "Men In Black" fan here)


Or, if you aren't familiar with that movie, this guy ("Invasion of the Body Snatchers")


He is no longer your H. Like you noted., the body walks and talks like H and, while the lights are on, there is no one home....

Second, the math thing...
His brain has....


If at all possible, you need to get things legally separated, especially if he's talking about a new car. An Audi (In Germany, we say that an Audi is a car with 5 zeros - 4 on the grill and one behind the wheel) or Benz will set him back 30K+ for a used one that is less than 3 years old - They are NOT cheap.

While not discussing finances with him is akin to not poking the bear, at some point, the rubber needs to meet the road and he will have to be made painfully aware of the consequences of the actions that he is taking - those include supporting his kids, ensuring that he can support himself (once he moves out, you need to make sure that if he DOES drink himself into a depression that YOU don't end up getting stuck paying for him..... )

Like Treasur said, the meeting with a lawyer is for info only. You do not need to retain them or even start a process but you NEED to know where you stand and what rights you have. Just because he is going off into la la land fantasizing about doing the Mattress Mambo with Fantasy OW, doesn't mean that he gets  "Get out of all responsibilities " Free card ( you know, like the "Get Out of Jail Free" card in Monopoly).  This is real life now and not some fantasy land where the clouds are all made of cotton candy, there are little fluffy  puppy dogs with waggely tails everywhere and unicorns running around farting clouds of rainbow glitter.

He can demand all he wants but knowing what he can actually get is going to be , for you, VERY important information. The cabin thing is a perfect example. If your parents built it and have given you a 50% share, does that share really need to be split? Did you have that before the marriage? There are LOTS of questions that need to be answered. Things like his "secret Investment Stash of Cash" for example. Likely there may be (or will be when the investments are sold) taxes due. Who pays them? Since you didn't know about the secret stash, you shouldn't be on the hook unless you are going to reap the benefits....

[Arcticfox]

Hi Ursa,

I got a genuine belly laugh out of your explanation! That was good for me. And in addition it makes perfect sense 

Me and H are both MiB fans btw, we rewatched the movies this spring. Funny, how we like the same things. Same taste in music and films, and we both like board games, nature trails, crosswords and sudokus. But at the marriage counselor he said, he has been thinking what it would be like to do those things we do together, with somebody else. Now where is the exploding brain smiley when I NEED it?!

Uh oh when he predicted that he will drink himself to depression and total ruin I just thought that in addition to being sad in itself, that would also mean he can’t support me and the kids financially. But it never crossed my mind that I might end up supporting him. But it is true if he spends down all he has he will be entitled to half of my half of what we own atm. And I could indeed from what I read, be obligated to support him even after divorce, if he is unable to make a living , even if the kids do not stay with him. (But only if he was already that way before D)I do not actually think he will let himself go that way but then again I remember being surprised by him before.

So I guess I need to discuss with the lawyer, and probably have the divorce paper ready and discuss which triggers should make me actually file. Like maybe, buying an expensive Audi would cause me to file immediately (before he totals the car). Something like that. Only it will be difficult to know what he is doing as we don’t live together and have little contact.

This is difficult.

As for today, we were eating breakfast and I saw him chatting on his cellphone in their workplace chat and WW was there. Didn’t want to appear interested at all so I couldn’t crane my head so I would have seen what was discussed. I just started doing a crossword puzzle and he leaned over to do that with me. I also just now got a compliment on looking sexy. None of this has any meaning to me.