[Arcticfox]

Hi Treasur!

I have had therapy due to my anxiety and I had thought I have pretty much resolved my FOO issues, because of therapy and because H who comes from a healthy family (stepdad raised him as one of his own children) and has supported me in his simple way when I struggled with my emotions. Without the work I have done, I would probably be much worse off now. But the insecurity and fear of future and unknown are back in force now, worsened by the abandonment and feeling of worthlessness that tries to creep in. I have a therapy session scheduled, I think I will also get ten sessions and after that will probably need to look for EMDR or something. I feel I am done talking and talking about my childhood issues!

Anyways, what I have been thinking I should journal about, is that I feel I have also had a quiet and successful midlife transition, starting a little bit before H began to be depressed (2-3 years ago?). I had real low ferritine value and was so tired with nightly sweats and joint pains. I thought it was perimenopause because the symptoms fit! Then it got worse until I got diagnosed and after a few days of taking iron supplement I started to miraculously feel better! But this triggered me thinking of my age. I started pondering that if there was something I want to accomplish in life, I no longer saw an infinite horizon but instead understood that the time was limited and I should act now. Only, I came to the conclusion that I am content with my life and what I have!

 Another thing I had to ponder was the number of children. For a long time I wanted a fourth child and that was something I now felt I had to decide. H didn’t even want the 3rd child (he loves S9 so much now!). So I decided that 4th child is out of the question, but it took some processing to accept that the time on that choice is running out. I actually mentioned to H a few times that a woman of my age is unlikely to become pregnant any more. I thought it would make him happy! That was definitely a mistake. Apparently the lizard brain likes to fertilize females… Anyways, I am now at peace with having 3 children and that is it, and also had no fear of the approaching menopause. Of course it would be easy if you think there’s someone by your side who will always love you 

My mental well-being has also in the past few years been challenged because of a couple of my own health problems. And the worst was S17’s health. He was struggling so bad, for 2,5 years he could hardly go to school at all and was in bad pain half of the time and started getting depression. I managered all his doctors’ visits and therapy, but so often he was in too bad a shape to even go to the physical therapy sessions  but I thought I can’t always depend on H for mental support and learned to take it easy and soothe myself (thank God I have done that work!) i thought H’s then mild depression was also caused by S17’s situation, but apparently he didn’t let it affect himself that much! And he has been telling me that I feel too old and that is his problem with me! Well sorry, I am not old but I am middle aged and I have graciously accepted that, he has not!

I think the health problems of both me and S17 actually affected our M and his crisis even if H can’t see that. Because I have been more turned inwards and concentrating on my own growth and taking care of S17, H has apparently felt we no longer have a connection. His depression didn’t help as I often felt he isn’t interested in chatting with me, sometimes he wouldn’t even answer. Instead of telling me what is the problem, he confided in WW (age 32) and that was the beginning of the usual story.

[Treasur]

Well, all that hard work suggests you probably have a pretty good toolbox - what kinds of things are you doing more of or less of right now which you find helpful? I often found basic stuff helped me - walked a lot, stopping to consciously breathe, approaching tasks sometimes from the side or in smaller chunks, counting backwards from 1000if I was bad. Usually just some kind of physical moving and getting outside helps me.

But when I was really in the long grass - and I was diagnosed with PTSD a couple of years post BD and tried both talking therapies and EMDR, big fan of EMDR-one of the small things that helped me most was to finish my day by writing down three things from the day for which I felt grateful. And they were tiny tiny things at first! But strangely I found that it rebalanced my eye to look for the good stuff bc the bad stuff was so noisy and overwhelming at the time.

Not at all uncommon here to find stories about a spouse going into crisis at the very time when the LBS spouse is overwhelmed by some other serious things - cancer, family challenges, struggling or sick kids. Still not your fault or indeed your son’s fault…but not uncommon to find that these kinds of folks it only don’t step up to share the load but almost resent no longer getting our full attention perhaps.

You may find, as you move forward, that the story you have told yourself for years about your h being the less FOOey one is not the whole truth of it. That there were fracture lines that you did not know, maybe that he didn’t even know, and that in reality he relied on you as a kind of scaffolding more than you realised. If only bc upending your life and binning your family is a rather big choice, isn’t it? He certainly doesn’t sound as if he is working through those big questions to the kind of contentment that it sounds you did.

Still not ypur fault though. As an adult, he could have used his words lol and he had (and still has)a whole bunch of different choices other than finding a WW and deciding to move out. Those choices - and the mostly predictable effects that come with them don’t belong to you. Still not ypur fault!

pS do let me know if you are in the market for any good reading on anxiety etc…I came across some good stuff in the midst of less helpful things!

[Arcticfox]

I am doing much of the same things as you Treasur, also I find that sports help keep my mood up. When I feel real bad I sometimes pray repeatedly even though I am not a religious person. I try to find little moments of beauty in every day. I have also done the gratefulness thing but only in my mind. Occasionally I do it wrong just for fun: i am grateful that H moved out, that my knee hurts… i think I read about that approach somewhere on this forum? No idea why that is supposed to help though.

I need mild sleeping pills to sleep atm. I think the most important things are to sleep, eat and move outside. Also getting even a small useful task accomplished helps. I guess I should try and find something else to think about than getting dumped by H and how the future will unfold, but man that is hard! I only think about those things about 98% of any given day…

H’s childhood family is really ok, his parents are closer to me than my own and they’re nice, normal people. Now H’s biological fathers’ parents were real pieces of work, can’t even write here what each of them told their adult kids on their respective death beds  H’s biological father is an emotionally stunted and troubled Person with mental health problems. He actually did right to abort mission fatherhood when h was newborn. Things turned out better for everybody. But i think there is something biological wrong in his and his parents (H’s biological grandparents) emotional wiring, and unfortunately at the moment I believe it is hereditary and H is emotionally stunted as well. I have no idea how he can work through his feelings in this situation.

H has always been adamant that he is his stepdad’s son, not biological father’s who he calls by first name and prefers never to meet. But it seems to me now that good upbringing can’t overcome everything written in a person’s genes. Also I think he has regressed back to his early twenties when we hadn’t met, he was not popular among the girls and was really insecure about his looks. (But c’mon man get over it, your youngest son is only 9!)

But enough about H already  i have a surprisingly good handle on my anxiety at the moment (having some daily but coping) but if you have some good links on the topic Treasur, I could check some gems out. Always good to have something else to think about that MLC…

[Arcticfox]

I heard today through the grapewine that I am apparently divorced. H has invited some old friends over to his apartment to help assemble some new furniture. These are old friends from high school. They have met maybe once a year and H has merrily gone there (except last winter when he was too depressed) but afaik never invited them anywhere himself. They’re his good friends though. One of them contacted someone I know after the visit and was surprised to hear that we haven’t actually filed for divorce. Unless H has done that recently and in secret, he lied to his friends. And he used to hate liars. (WW btw is according to H a liar, I don’t understand how he can be madly in love with a Person who does something he used to detest. But apparently lying is okay now?). I guess he is not proud of keeping his wife as a backup, well I wouldn’t flaunt that strategy either!

For what it’s worth, H had told his friends that indeed we are divorced, that any other persons weren’t involved  and that he has been depressed. He had said he had a crush at work but it was not reciprocated (to me he told: I felt like i will die if I can’t be with her, she doesn’t want me but if we divorce I have the tiniest chance so I want a divorce…  ) H had also discussed setting up a tinder profile. H’s friend had according to my informant seemed to be puzzled by the ”divorce” and even though he heard only H’s watered-down explanation he had appeared to be slightly on my side (but who knows). He had said that the apartment was a dismal bachelor box (it’s 3 rooms so kids can visit) and the mood during the visit had been bleak. The friends had promised to keep in touch with H so he doesn’t need to think through things all by himself. I hope these friends have some sense in their heads…

One thing H told me was that he wants a different life, well there it is now. His own choice.

[Arcticfox]

Hi everybody,

I am wondering about our MC session at the end of the month. What should we discuss there? Depends a lot on what H wants to say of course. But what is the wisest course for me? I probably should not let him know that pain-wise I am in hell. But is it okay to say I miss him or will that push him further away? And I know I can’t ask him about his thoughts on R or the future. Unless he volunteers some feelings on those topics it is too early and will feel pushy.

Does anybody have experience or opinion on MC session 1 month into separation when the persons are not really communicating at all?

Another thing, H spoke shortly on the phone with MIL and according to her, he sounded interested in visiting his parents. So this is not typical MLC in that he is not withdrawing from family, only me? I feel quite hopeless at the moment to be honest. He seems to feel better now that he moved out. Of course we don’t know that. But this is awfully hard.

[TheShore]

Hi everybody,

I am wondering about our MC session at the end of the month. What should we discuss there? Depends a lot on what H wants to say of course. But what is the wisest course for me? I probably should not let him know that pain-wise I am in hell. But is it okay to say I miss him or will that push him further away? And I know I can’t ask him about his thoughts on R or the future. Unless he volunteers some feelings on those topics it is too early and will feel pushy.

Does anybody have experience or opinion on MC session 1 month into separation when the persons are not really communicating at all?

Another thing, H spoke shortly on the phone with MIL and according to her, he sounded interested in visiting his parents. So this is not typical MLC in that he is not withdrawing from family, only me? I feel quite hopeless at the moment to be honest. He seems to feel better now that he moved out. Of course we don’t know that. But this is awfully hard.

In regards to therapy, I really think the only way for the MLCer to truly heal is to address the real root causes - their childhood trauma, insecurities, etc...  But how to do that/how to get there, that's beyond my pay grade.  I don't really have a good suggestion.  I think the MLCer has to get there themselves.  Who knows how they even do that if ever.  If you push them in that direction, I think it will only push them further away from you and the relationship.  In my experience, my MLCer was the one that suggested MC about 1.5 months after BD... I set it up (due to my fixer mentality and them not doing any work).  When we attended, she didn't put in effort if any at all and eventually walked away from joining the MC sessions as well as her own IC.  They don't want to look into the mirror.  If I had to make a recommendation, I would say keep as quiet as possible, don't ask questions, validate (up to a point).

From what I read, if the MLCer tries to come back, they will start connecting with your friends, family, kids firstly... you will be last.

[FaithWalker]

Hey AF,

I'm so sorry that you had to join our ranks due to your H's MLC but you are at least in good company.

I don't have much advice on MC as my H refused to even try.  But after hanging around here for many years and hearing how other's MC went, it seems I might have dodged a bullet there.  MC can be hard, since MLC is not a marriage issue.  Try to keep your expectations low.  MLCers would maybe fair better with individual counseling, but they don't want to hear that and are generally not in a place to really dig in and do the work to get to that place.

[Arcticfox]

Hi Faithwalker!

My H is actually going to IC as well but he is not at all excited about it. He just felt so bad before telling me he wants to divorce and that he is in love with another woman that he felt like he would die. So he kind of had to start IC. But I don’t know how much he can benefit from it, he seemed to think he would get answers there, like a therapist would tell him what should he do? I don’t know what he is thinking at the moment as we don’t see or speak with each other. He did call once regarding a problem with S17, and when I said he must now concentrate on thinking about his life and healing from his depression, he said that he is not thinking at all, just watching tv.

This morning I woke up realizing that I myself should have put a little more effort in being playfully feminine. Men don’t seem to appreciate wife just taking care of the home front and cooking food for the family. I wish I had realized this sooner. On the other hand there was little kissing and hugging every day. But ultimately his depression and the urge to have experiences with other women would probably have happened anyways so I should not beat myself on the head too much about something that is too late anyways.

[Treasur]

On your musings about MC….every story here I recall suggests that, at best, it will be a waste of your time and energy. If you think about it, the MC process has three ‘clients’ - you, your h and the relationship. You can’t say or do anything to fix your h, the relationship is currently dead in the water bc your h has chosen to leave and your h is unlikely to be much useful help to your healing. So tbh not much point thinking in advance what you ‘should’ say or not say. The best you can do probably is be open-minded enough to see it as an opportunity to see what the situation is in reality for all three ‘clients’.

It’s normal to hold on to that bit of belief in the ‘if only I had’ or ‘if only I could’, and I can see that this is where you are. And that’s so normal at this relatively early stage. We humans tend to find it very hard to just metaphorically open our hand and let things be bc we don’t want them to be how they are. So at least for a while we engage in a bit of ‘magical thinking’. Makes sense doesn’t it when the alternative is so deeply painful and absolutely life-upending? Don’t beat yourself up about that but imho if you can try to observe it when that’s what’s rolling around in your mind. Try to focus on facts as much as you can and to keep things as simple as you can, recognising that actions matter more than words and some actions more than others.

So, for instance, spouses don’t move out bc they are committed to a marriage and family…at best they are choosing to move these things from the centre to the edge of their lives. At best this means that a whole bunch of things, big and small, will now work differently than they did. And you’re allowed to plot your own path in how you adjust to such a big change whether they like it or not, to decide what is acceptable or doable for you.

Imho the ‘playfully feminine’ thought comes from the same magical thinking stable. And obviously, as you said, a bit of your brain knows that. Be playfully feminine if that is who you are…but not in order to influence him. You are enough pretty much as who you are most probably. Other husbands including some LBS here would find you an admirable partner and count their blessings!

There are plenty of tales here of husbands leaving bc their wife is too capable or not capable enough, too career-focused or not ambitious enough, too fat or too thin, too nice or not nice enough….the list is endless. And I’m prepared to wager a great lump of cash I don’t have that your h is not perfect as a person or husband either….the difference is that he chose to leave and you did not, that he sees his current choices as a solution to whatever ails him and you did not. That ‘third client’ in the MC process can’t be worked with until or unless both of you choose to reshape it and that requires your h to reach a point where he owns his half of the street.

It is unusual here at this stage of the game to see that happen, I’m sorry to say. Much more common that MC becomes an exercise in blaming you as justifying why they did what they did or an invitation to feel sorry for them or even try to manipulate the terms of a separation or divorce in the hope that you will be trying to appease them. Sorry.

So no amount of playful or pretzelling on your part changes that - it’s an inside job not an outside job if that makes sense. In life, in all kinds of relationships, people choose to appreciate others for who they are. Or not. But that’s not a choice we make for them, only for ourselves. And you can’t perform like a performing seal or a be a multiple/topping pizza for the rest of your life, can you?

And most LBS here are so traumatised initially by what happens that it takes us a while to remember who we really are and appreciate ourselves! If I were you, I’d start there…remind yourself of all the things that are rather lovely about you, and spend time with people who remind you of that bc they appreciate you. I cannot emphasise enough - although I know there are lots of LBS here nodding along - how big a number this life experience can do on your own sense of self worth and and stability in who you are.

A friend said to me yesterday, out of the blue, that she thinks I am so talented, that I have so many gifts that she feels very lucky to know me….wasn’t that nice? But, for a moment - and I am years past the big devaluation of BD - I was a bit speechless. I remember feeling years ago that I had lots of talents but those so called talents were pretty useless and inaccessible to me when my life got blown up! So it changed how I saw myself and changed how I lived and felt about how my world worked….i could only see failure and doubt and mistakes and wasted things, so it was hard to see much good in me at all. Still is some days tbh…so imho that’s the fight worth fighting against…that insidious inner voice that blames you for someone else’s choices or opinion of you.

Again jmo, but when someone leaves and particularly if they have betrayed and deceived us, their opinion of me becomes much less important! My xh may indeed believe that I was a terrible wife and horrible human…I have no idea…but I know that I’m a pretty decent human and that I would have thought myself very lucky indeed if I’d had the kind of spouse that I was, particularly when life was difficult! I did my best, I acted honestly and with good intent for years and years…my xh could not honestly say the same about his half of our marriage and that’s about who he was not who I was. I wasn’t very different years on from the person he married for whatever reason he chose to propose…but these folks tend not to see it that way. They believe, I think, that replacing your spouse will be some magic fix to their internal discomfort….an outside fix for an inside problem…which is why, over time, that rarely turns out to be so. But they break things on the way and life changes bc of that, often in ways that seem to surprise them. Bc of course they take whatever the inside problem is with them into their new lives…new relationships or jobs or places might be a distraction for a while but that tends not to last forever in normal life, does it?

It takes a while for most LBS to really understand in their bones that, whatever imperfections you have as a normal human, YOU were not the problem. The problem - such as it is, and put more simply - is that your spouse was unhappy with their own life and chose to blow up their old life with you as a solution. I guess that might work out for some, who knows, but it’s not so likely it seems to me. But YOU are not the problem. Which also means YOU are not the solution either. Whether you are winsomely feminine or not!

[Arcticfox]

Thank you Treasur! Everything that you wrote makes a lot of sense. I can’t be anyone else but myself. And frankly in this situation I doubt that anyone would feel playful. Same with the previous 4 years with my own & son’s health problems. A spouse could have chosen to be supportive. But he has his own crisis. And indeed it is odd to go to MC as he has declared that he is now single. What is a single Person doing in MC? I struggle so much with this situation that it is unreal. Thing is, his hug used to make everything ok for me. Time to stand on my own two feet now I guess.