[arp1]

I was pondering on this question the other day.

When the BD occurs we are shell shocked; we never foresaw this mess, our partner's unhappiness, the soul-searching it causes, etc. Have we been blind to what's been happening or have we unconsciously pushed aside the problems as irrelevant or minor? Almost everything I've read on here seems to show that the LBS is genuinely surprised, bamboozled, confused about what has happened to their relationship. Nobody is perfect but are we the ones who weren't paying attention to our partners, not noticing the signals or warning signs?

In my case, so much had happened over a period of 4-5 years  it's been hard to see anything clearly: multiple bereavements on both sides of the family, kids starting and adapting to high school, work pressures (both of us), etc. It just feels like life in general got in the way of my W & I's relationship to the point where we didn't know each other or what 'us' meant anymore. When I try to think back, it's just impossible for me to see the cracks appearing. My W had had a smaller meltdown about 8 years ago, which we came through, though I'm not sure how or why. I knew she had issues then, but I thought she'd put them behind her and was relatively happy until this terrible 4-5 year cycle of grief and upheaval started. That seems to have brought things to a head, prompted to the EA, etc.

[Foxberry]

Dear arp1

I agree with you entirely. I have done a lot of soul searching since my BD in Sept 2010 & yes I think complacency, 'making do' & being married for 28 years contributed - but nothing can EVER be an excuse for cheating on your spouse & all the lies, betrayal & deceit that goes with it.

My H literally disappeared to another town to live with this woman after knowing her for less than 3 months. He refused to tell anyone where he was to 'protect' her??? My son & I were just in the way - again our Son was not to blame for anything. You are not to blame either if there is another man! Just like me your W made vows 'for better or worse' not 'for better' & if it gets worse then I'm off!  My H NEVER communicated with me at all about anything so how was I to know he was SO unhappy he would seek solace in the arms of a cheating sl*t who sleeps with married men & was married herself! Charming woman of high moral virtue! He should have talked to ME.

So are we LBS's to blame for the breakdown of our marriages? Only we know what we we closed our eyes to, ignored, etc I take full responsibility for whatever I did or didn't do, but I have been told that everything including his affair is my fault? How can that possibly be true for me or anyone else. These MLCs see they are unhappy & blame the nearest person - us! This has certainly been my H's inspiration for believing he is completely justified in living with OW & her family & to hell with the dreadful fall-out for me, our Son & others too. H is 'happy' that's all that matters in his head. Your W will be just the same! It's as though they cannot see the anguish & pain.

Take care of yourself.
Love & hugs
Fox. Xxx
I

[arp1]

I have done a lot of soul searching since my BD in Sept 2010...

So have I. And I discovered that I am the person I thought I was, that I like myself, etc. What was my W's reaction when I told her this? "I never asked you to do that...I never said you weren't a good person, etc."

My H NEVER communicated with me at all about anything so how was I to know he was SO unhappy .... He should have talked to ME.

This has been my point to my W. I know she has had issues with her arranging ALL things for us to do, organising things with the kids, etc (not true btw, but her perception is that it's always her). And I can see that with everything that has gone wrong in the past 4-5 years, particularly for her, that that may be a burden, but why didn't she say something? Why bottle it all up, become resentful and bitter, then lash out and drop the bomb? What's ironic is that she is the one who loves to talk and explore things. Why didn't she just say that she needed to talk about some things?

So are we LBS's to blame for the breakdown of our marriages? Only we know what we we closed our eyes to, ignored, etc. I take full responsibility for whatever I did or didn't do, but I have been told that everything including his affair is my fault? How can that possibly be true for me or anyone else? These MLCs see they are unhappy & blame the nearest person - us!

Totally agree with you Foxberry. I've said to my W that I take responsibility for things I've said/not said or done/not done - I made a list of things I needed to apologise for or explain how I was feeling at the time. Did I ignore or close my eyes to things? To what? I don't know what I was supposed to have seen! With the bereavements, she grieved in private, away from me and sought solace from the EA with the OM and talked to other people, not to me - I couldn't help, I wouldn't understand, etc.

Thanks. I helps to know I'm not alone in feeling this way.
x

[OldPilot]

Arp, Heart Blessing has written about this and  apparently what you saw 7-8 years ago was a mini crisis that she pulled through before being resolved.
So she has cycled back to this now to finish resolving the crisis now.

This is not unusual for MLC and it all works in cycles.
I just read something yesterday by RCR where she describes it like a slinky and the journey is on the path of the wire. but you go round and round in a circle but only move forward the width of the wire,

Maybe someone else can find you some links on this, sorry I don't have time to look right now.

[NewBeginnings]

Well said Foxberry.  My H never ever said a word about being unhappy with anything.  I did see he was kind of depressed the last 3 years from financial difficulties and I tried to get him to get help but he wouldn't.  The one time he did open up last fall he said he felt numb, dead inside and that he blamed himself for our finanicial  problems that we had 2-3 years ago.  I always told him it was the economy and not his fault.  When  I got the BD in February stating he was done with us and wasn't coming back, he was already living with OW and had been.  I was and still am in total shock.  We were married 19 years living together for 24 years.  I thought I knew him so well.   He works 3 hours away and had a apt. there.  He said he was alone.  2 months after BD I hired a PI and found out all his dirty little secrets, his other life with OW.  Last week found out he took a large loan against our 401K and he has done nothing but spend money.  Sad part is he cut me and our 13 year old S off 5 weeks ago from all money.   My H never ever talked about how he was feeling.  He just doesn't talk about relationships and he is a conflict avoider big time.  He needs praise all the time.  I believe long time marriages just get comfortable, busy with jobs, kids and everyday life.  I feel like I had a solid marriage and that I shouldn't of had to worry if H was thinking of abandoning us because we were married, we took our vows and I trusted him.  No marriage after years are going to be like that new relationship with lust and infatuation and it seems that men always miss and want that.  They just don't realize or remember that it wears off in time.  I still find it so sad that H would give up his family, me and his S for some trailer trash lady that has lost custody of her 2 kids and probably has STD's.  So much for our family memories and traditions.  This is sooooo  painful.

[wondering]

Somewhere in the articles it describes that they ( the MLCer) actually go through a few stages before the BD. One I know is denial. They deny and suppress what they are feeling. Usually only in hindsight do we see that they were acting slight different. In my case, after a few family deaths, he began drinking heavier, but I too didn't see it coming. At BD they can no longer hold it in and replay comes out in full force.

[arp1]

I believe long time marriages just get comfortable, busy with jobs, kids and everyday life.  I feel like I had a solid marriage and that I shouldn't of had to worry if H was thinking of abandoning us because we were married, we took our vows and I trusted him.  No marriage after years are going to be like that new relationship with lust and infatuation and it seems that men always miss and want that.  They just don't realize or remember that it wears off in time.

This is true heartbroken. I tried to get my W to see that our lives just kind of overtook us: job, kids, families, bereavements, everything. Sh*t happens! But no, that didn't cut any ice. I think she does want that initial early relationship lust, fun, infatuation again (that's where the OM comes in) triggered by the bereavements and getting towards 50. Andrew G Marshall's book "ILYBINILWY..." identifies 6 stages of a relationship moving from limerence to 'loving attachment' (can't remember all 6 now), so yes, that initial phase only last about 3 years maximum. I've been unable to get her to see anything rationally or logically, so like everyone else here, I'm stuck with a selfish spouse who wants it all NOW. 

[Still]

Although we are all shocked at bomb drop, I think that many of us had some inklings into issues that we dismiss as "normal relationship stuff".  For most of us, life did get in the way, as does the complacency that comes along with long-term marriages. We know that we intend to be with our partner through "thick and thin" and in our minds, that same idea is reciprocated back to us. I think that is one of the most painful aspects.....people giving up and not working towards a positive ending.

Once we get "the speech", we are left with no recourse. The MLC'er is done. Sure, they may go "through the motions" of various attempts to "try", but those are little more than superficial acts to give the appearance of working through things. They were done long before they tell us. No amount of pretzeling on our part is going to make any difference.....neither does begging, pleading, or crying. It irritates them and solidifies in their minds that getting away from us is the right decision.

So, where does that leave us? It leaves us "out of the equation" during MLC. Nothing we do is going to change their path. They need to walk through this journey alone. We can't help them. Trying to help them puts us in the way and likely lengthens the trip.

All we can do is stand back. Let them make the decisions they need to make, reap the consequences, and hope that in the end, they come through this better, more centered individuals with their good qualities realigned. There are no guarantees in any of this. That is the reality.

For some, the marriage/relationship will start over again. It will be a different relationship one in which all cards must be on the table. It will be two people who know that love is an action and not a feeling. We choose to love people, in spite of the decisions they make. They can choose to love us, in spite of what infatuations my lie on the other side of the fence.....for the grass is not always greener on the other side, it just takes longer for the washable markers to wear off.

[Foxberry]

I have done a lot of soul searching since my BD in Sept 2010...

Totally agree with you Foxberry. I've said to my W that I take responsibility for things I've said/not said or done/not done - I made a list of things I needed to apologise for or explain how I was feeling at the time. Did I ignore or close my eyes to things? To what? I don't know what I was supposed to have seen! With the bereavements, she grieved in private, away from me and sought solace from the EA with the OM and talked to other people, not to me - I couldn't help, I wouldn't understand, etc.

OMG arp1 - you won't believe this but my H insisted I MAKE A LIST of things that were wrong about me and what was needed to sort the marriage out....unbelievable!  When I asked him if he was going to write things down - he said no - he didn't need to..... I felt the whole thing was my fault and only I could put it right....at Easter when he came back for his mini "reconciliation" with me - I feel now that it was more about H making himself feel better about why he'd left in the first place, as his conscience couldn't cope with the guilt....all the questions I had - a sort of grief for what I had lost and needed answers to - was just too much for him and actually justified his reason for leaving again!!! I should have thought how cowardly he'd been for leaving me alone for 6 months with no word and living with another MARRIED woman - rather than blaming myself - but I did day in day out - Incredible... It has only been over the past couple of days whilst with my Son and I've heard the way that he behaved with our Son when I wasn't around - that makes me see the problem IS HIM - as he treated our son in the same condescending way as he treated me.....

My heart goes out to you - I know your pain.....the only thing for me is that I never bump into or see my H as he's living with his "new pretend family" 300 miles away, so that is a blessing in a way.   Nobody should be made to feel so bad about themselves that they have to write down what's wrong about them, or what it is perceived they have done.... there is a name for this - it's called Mental Cruelty!  If it takes two to make a marriage, it takes two to break it up - not one person...we have to believe this! 

Love and hugs
Fox xxx

[NewBeginnings]

arp1 ~ Wow, I did not think that the lust and infatuation stage last that long.  I thought it was a year or less.  That is depressing. 

Foxberry-that is cruel what your H did.  I can't imagine being asked to make a list of all the things wrong with me.  I know what I need to change in myself.  I knew before BD but I had a hard time changing because my H never changed the things about him that I needed different.  Like I said, he would never talk about our relationship.  If we did get into an argument, he would always, and my mean always turn it around so we were feeling sorry for him.  It was so frustrating.  My Therapist said he turned himself into the "Victim" and because he always did that, my or our issues never got resolved over the years.  So over time I became to resent him.  I just know that my life was about him and our son and I did everything I could to make him happy.  Everything was always about him.  With H, everything was always about work.  That came first and it always will.  It doesn't matter who he is with.