[LettingGo]

I wanted to open this discussion, as I hear a lot of LBS declare they have too much "self respect" and "dignity" to allow certain behaviors from their MLCer and so choose to have no contact even though their spouse is reaching out to them in small ways. In no way am I telling anyone what I think they should do.... but I think this topic is good food for thought....

First off, it's been my experience that being in relationship with someone in MLC shares MANY elements of an abusive situation with respect to their actions. I personally choose to give my husband a "handicap", to use a sports term, for the duration of his Crisis rather than torture myself by holding him to a standard of behavior that was typical for him prior to his MLC.

Definition of DIGNITY

1
: the quality or state of being worthy, honored, or esteemed

Definition of PRIDE

1
: the quality or state of being proud: as

a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit

: proud or disdainful behavior or treatment : disdain

I'd like to share an essay by a student that I plucked off of the Internet..... I have only actually skimmed it, so I'm not saying whether I believe it is a good essay, or deep or describes my beliefs.... I'm just too lazy today to write out my own thoughts, LOL!!

Good Pride, Bad Pride

Copyright © 1999 Willie Siu  All Rights Reserved

In Spanish there are two words to describe the two aspects of Pride (Orgullo and Soberbia). In first place, there is the sense of pride that make you feel good about something in which you put effort and love. This aspect of Pride is the warm sense that make you feel proud of being part of that something that make you feel special; this is good pride (Orgullo).

On the other hand, we have the capital sin. This kind of pride could take you to places that you might not go, and could keep you from enter to those other places that might be advantageous for you to experience. Wait a minute, there is a word in English to describe this kind of "Bad" pride: self-righteousness (in the case that hyphened words are real words, indeed). Please take note that, I am not referring to a self-righteous person as a high-maintenance-conceited-egocentric person (let's overuse the hyphen).

The self-righteousness that I refer here is the aspect of pride that worries me. I pray to God/Universe to help me to understand my own self-righteousness and then get rid of it. I know I could do better without it. I could use some humbleness.

I know that if I were more humble, I knew that I'm not always infallible. If I were more humble, I knew that I am only human. I could learn to respect my limits and to admit my mistakes. I could actually realize them, forgive them, and eventually conquer them.

If I were more humble, I could practice more forgiveness toward myself and the people that surround me. I could understand and feel the "compassion" that my friend Jim talks about whenever he advises me. If I were more humble, I could quit being judgmental, because a humble person knows that we are all human.

If I were less self-righteous, I would be more patient. Because, a self-righteous person does not respect the rhythms of the Universe. Situations, circumstances, people are ready at their own pace, not a minute later, not a minute earlier. The Universe/God does not work for those that impatiently expect everything to be right on time for their own benefit.

If I were more humble, I could live my life in the present. I could forget about re-living the past, extending its time. Also, I could quit planning my future by inflating useless expectations. Because it is a lie to think that past times were always better, or that the future will bring happiness. Now is the moment, and the only certainty we can count on.

If I were more humble, I could realize the presence and force of God/Universe in everything that exist, even in those probabilities that are known as inspirations or ideas. If I were more humble, I could trust more, I could let go more easy. Because God/Universe will be always there for me, to help me, to transform me, to empower me, and to teach me. The sense of humbleness could help me to see more clearly that every experience is filled with the force of the Universe/God. I could trust more. A humble persons posses Respect, the kind of respect that keeps the harmony between human beings and the Universe/God/Nature.

It is difficult for me to let go, and the idea of being humble scares me. Sometimes I think I have the answer for everything but that is just a pathetic attempt to feel in control.

I know I suffer because I am gay, because I think being gay is wrong. I should quit being so judgmental, life is not polarized in Good and Bad, right and wrong. The right sense of humbleness could help me to understand my human condition, and I could just be.

I am also very impatient, and that is so disrespectful to the Universe/God. Just because I think I am right and ready it doesn't apply for the rest of world.

My own self-righteousness makes me forget about God/Universe. It makes me forget that God is present in every creature, in every circumstance, results, situations, etc. Even those that I had considered bad in my life. I sometimes forget that God/Universe was there teaching me the lessons I needed to learn.

If I were more humble, I could just let myself rejoice in my own existence, grateful of being granted with the gift of life, happy of just being part of everything, right here and right now.



So, I ask the question... Are you Standing with "Dignity" or is "Pride" standing in your way?

[Synicca]

Very good thinking....I will have to mole this around in my head for a bit and find my Truth..

I'll post my answer later, as I have to run out to another doc appt for my mom....

Hugs LG...Have a blessed day!

[Anjae]

With dignity and respect for myself.

There are certain behaviours, even if small, from our MLCers that cannot be tolerated. They are dangerous for our mental and physical sanity. We need to take very good care of ourselves.

Yes, the relashionship with someone in MLC shares abuse. My husband was physically, emotionally abusive during OW1. It made me a wreck. I've no contact with him since OW2. Even if he is a vanisher he still tries to abuse me. Throught stupid court cases, and stuff like that.
Since OW2 I've cut him off my life for my own good.

[LifeGoesOn]

I stand for lack of anything better to do,  while I clean up the mess H has created. The emotional recovery for my kids and myself became my priority.

Many people IRL (most, in fact) have asked me why I stand, but not in those words....The inquiries take the form of "I have too much self-respect not to D my H if he did what yours is doing." "Don't you have any pride or dignity?"  "Look how he humiliates you by living w/hobag!" "Let me fix you up on a date." "You need to meet someone who will treat you better." Problem is, this isn't high school. This is Marriage and none of their suggestions will help, much less fix, the issue. Most people would be much happier with me if I kicked h to the curb and D'd him in bitterness and anger.

The kids and I are getting there, and our lives are much more stable. To get myself and my kids out of H's tornadic drama, I went NC after he left the 4th time (15 months after BD, 2 years after start of A) to live w/ the alienator...again. The "I miss you" emails went ignored this time around. I HAD to push him far enough away to get my feet under me and get out of his way. Also, I was no longer a source of their drama...(I found out OW was making up lies to create more drama as time went on). Then, I discovered the idea of MLC.

After a few months, I eased up on the NC, but it was very different...no R talk. My CB still clings but he definitely stopped bringing me drama. I am still able to shoot darts, plant seeds, and pave the way to a better relationship with him, either as single parents or a married couple.

This is how I chose to handle it...it was really more about survival. 15 months of ongoing trauma was wiping me out. I will suggest NC to another when I see they are in danger of getting sucked under by the whirlpool of their spouses craziness. NC is one surefire way to eliminate it, even if it is for short time. I have also found that any contact H has with me is a source of drama for the A, and drama is fuel. The A requires it and when it is running low, one of them will create more by either poking at me or by lying to each other. The best thing I can do for me, my kids, my M, and my H is to stay out of his way, and be happy. NC helped my H figure out how to be a CB without bothering me with it. (For those of you that do not have a CB, it is EXHAUSTING!) Now H has to find his reasurance indirectly. (for example: When I do see him, I catch him checking out my wedding ring and the smile he tries to hide when he sees it )

I will repeat, this is how I have created my stand...mostly by default. Each of has our own reasons, our own issues, fears, and MLCers to deal with day to day. There are as many ways to cope as there are each of us. The best we can do is offer each other support and suggestions based on our experiences.  To my IRL friends, Please do not tell me to D my H, I am not "there" yet (and since you have never been where I am...shut up.)

Off I go to think about pride...hmmmmmm

 

[Synicca]

I am not sure...if I stand with dignity or pride....as the definitions have confused me! LOL

I know I stand because I have empathy..I have empathy for the pain my H IS going through, I have compassion
for the "fear" that embodies MY MLCer.

I have understanding, because I have been there.

I stand, because even though, My H has crossed the line in my M..I know that he has done this to HIMSELF.
I do not understand, this idea...That ALL MLCers are "Haters" and will ALL inflict emotional pain on EVERY LBSer.

We are in control of our own emotions, Anger and Dispair. We choose to FEEL that emotion because it brings
about a internal response that is of OUR very own.

I do not stand...Because I have "pride" I have no pride.....

I keep my dignity in tact...because my H did NOT DO THIS TO ME!

I don't care what other people think about MY stand. I get the "find someone who will treat you better"
and WHY?? is the question I always ask when I am confronted with someone TELLING me WHAT to do
in MY life.....the funny thing is...That person can never tell me WHY??

So, I don't know If I really answered the topic question...but I gave it my best shot!! 

[Anjae]

Frankly, if I still did not know a thing about MLC I would also say to someone who would come to me in the same situation we are to let it go, find someone who treats you better and would ask why.

[stayingthecourse]

I started my stand because I just could not wrap my brain around what my H was doing.  We had not been arguing but the kids and I were all walking on eggshells.  I did not know OW was back in the picture at the time.

Then, I was standing because I was going to "win" H back.  During this time I did some really deep, deep looking at my marriage, my life, and myself.  I continued to stand because I just could not see my life without my H.  I had no dignity or pride at the time.

Now, I am standing because I believe that if my REAL H ever returns we could have a great relationship.  Not because of anything he has done but because of the work I have done on myself.  I guess in a way I would like to use the familiarity that my H has with me to see if he notices that I am different, and to "test" these changes in a challenging situation to see if the are real.

So - dignity or pride?  I am proud of the progress I have made - for me.  I have dignity for myself also, but I do not see dignity as something that really comes into play as far as my stand now.  If dignity is : the quality or state of being worthy, honored, or esteemed - I have this but I do not receive it from my H. I also don't need to have the person my H is now find me worthy, honor me, or esteem me.

So based on that - I would have to say Pride - pride in myself for being able to face my demons, pride in myself for being able to see that my H has gone off the deep end, pride in myself for not being willing to throw away my marriage just because circumstances or other people tell me I should, pride in myself for being able to see that what is happening now is a trial by fire, and at the end of the day - I will be "purified" and will be able to live the best life possible for me and my children. Maybe my H will be there, maybe not.  I am proud that I can say that and know that there may be more pain to come, but I will be OK.

I say this without  - a : inordinate self-esteem : conceit: proud or disdainful behavior or treatment : disdain.  LOL!



STC

[LettingGo]

I appreciate all of your thoughts... really, it's not a quiz or anything..... I just think that IN LIFE, many people CONFUSE "dignity" or "self respect" with what really is "PRIDEFULNESS"..... having "too much pride" to admit you are wrong.... or "too much pride" to forgive another human... or "too much pride" to do what our HEARTS tell us to do because we think we'll be seen as weak.... this is what I mean by asking, are you standing with the dignity of an LBS married to a sick person who is also doing hurtful things, or are you standing with "too much pride" to "let it go, get over it, forgive the unforgiveable, etc....)

I went back and read the essay I used to get the ball rolling here... and I'm reminded also, that "Pride" is very often SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS.... who among us has never felt so slighted that we became self righteous in our reaction.... I certainly know I have.... especially when it comes to OW, LOL!!

So, my question in this discussion is not really "why do you stand?" but, HOW do you stand? Are you dignified and forgiving, or are you prideful and self righteous? You don't actually have to answer out loud..... again, I thought this would be a good topic for discussion or food for thought...

[forthetrees]

That´s what I like about this forum- always thinking!

[Synicca]

So would this mean......Do I forgive my H for what he has done....and stand??


omg- I'm confused!!!  LOL!!!