[Anjae]

I do hope that members of this forum are not forgiving infidelity because their MLC spouse is "mentally unstable"...  MLC is not an excuse...  just as alcohol or other drug use is not an excuse...  if our MLC spouse recognized they were suffering from depression...  they could get medical help that could "balance" their emotions...  perhaps then they might opt out of some of the choices they make...

I do not...  not one bit...  change my attitude of holding my W responsible for her choices...  any future R...  or the continuation of the M...  would still require all the "normal" work to restore the M...

I'm not. Always told husband he was responsable for his choices. He disliked to hear that. He kwen, before he left that he was depressed. By then, he had both our GP and his work doctor. I talked with teh work doctor and asked him to have a chat with my husband. Well, his work doctor tryied to talk to him and he run from the doctor. At a certain point he quit his job, and got onother very away from that doctor. Some 7 months after BD, when I was already back to our home town, he talked to me and said, again, he was depressed. Again, he did nothing about it. Did not go to the doctor , did not try to change his life. Zero!
Yes, it would require the "normal" work to restore the marriage. Or even more than the "normal" work.

I am without a doubt M friendly...  and yet, I am prepared to D...  perhaps I sound like a hypocrite...  who am I to stand in the way of what someone else wants...  or alternately, in the case of my W...  doesn't want...  ie.  she does not want to be M...  even though she does not want to discuss D...  *shrug*  tough call...

Being M friendly and considering D is not the same that being divorce friendly. Yes, the not want to be married but not want to be divorced...

But I encourage everyone to stand as long as you feel you can...   and then...  I'd encourage you to try to stand...  a little longer...  because really...  if M wasn't important enough to do...  then why do it in the first place...  if it was important enough to do...  then why not stand for it...?  At least, as long as you can...  without making choices based on reaction...  ie.  Do the work...  think through things rationally...  and THEN...  make choices...

Totally agree with you on this one.

A year and a few months later...  I'm feeling...  better...  most of the work done, I have found my peace...  the negative emotions are very far between and generally mild...  it gets better... 

Anne:  *sigh*...  Yes, the time...

Time changes things and, thenm it will change things again. LBS is not still, MLCer is not still. Sometimes it looks like LBS is still but that is not so. We will change, and change, and change again. Even because we get older, we grow both because of the MLC and age.

Yes Anne, I believe that I am being very fair to my W...  I love her...  she told me from day one...  from the moment that I asked her to marry me, she cautioned me...  firmly stated that she was a little...  crazy and unstable...  hahah...  back then...  that was part of what I loved about her... 

 

[With Gods Help!]

Hi Ann BD for me was may 09 MLC started for h way back in 05/06 i new back then something was wrong but i had started university...think this was my own transition......however i was able to enter my transition with positive actions.........my h chose the opposite........he bought the fast car 06.....changed his sense of dress to younger more teenagerish clothes (if that’s a word lol) he started going round with young lads 18- 20 yr olds..........changed his style of music........hated our music insisted that that was outdated and listened to chart music...........he met o/w august 08...........round about this time he cut off family and friends........i although new something was going on needed to concentrate on my studies......which i did and passed with all A's........im happy i did ive got a good career....something that’s invaluable to me since h left and doesn’t give me a penny......my h was and is a multiple returner just as RCR sweetheart was.........and yes your right RCR says the mlcer as to believe the R is over, dead,  but she does not advocate divorce........i do not agree with infidelity but it as happened and that’s something i have to forgive if me and h are to R..........i am working on that.........as for the rest of the stuff hes done im also forgiving that too....although it was hard and i never thought i could.....praying to GOD to help me heal and as been my saviour as well as this forum........i also know that one day the fog will start to clear and h will work on his part too..........i know your thinking how do you know that....trust me i know..i know h will come home......ive always felt it.........im seeing so many changes with h and hes finally admitted the issues are within him not me xxxxxx

Kaffe diem...............Hi I also hold my h responsible for his choices........... but im responsible for mine too.......i admit i wasn’t the perfect spouse does that mean i deserve what he did NO it doesn’t but to R means to work on forgiveness and and become the best possible person I can be........lots of people make mistakes its learning not to do the same things that makes the difference ...............xxxxxxxxxxxxx   

[StillStanding]

I do hope that members of this forum are not forgiving infidelity because their MLC spouse is "mentally unstable"...  MLC is not an excuse...  just as alcohol or other drug use is not an excuse...  if our MLC spouse recognized they were suffering from depression...  they could get medical help that could "balance" their emotions...  perhaps then they might opt out of some of the choices they make...

There are plenty of non-MLCing couples who recover from infidelity. Infidelity doesn't have to mean the end of the marriage, or the inability to create a new marriage, regardless of whether or not MLC is a complicating factor.

(You also seem to be of the notion that depression or addiction is something you can just "get over" or simply choose to do something about. It's not that simple at all.)

[kaffe diem]

Absolutely, WGH...  If any one of us failed to reflect on our own personal responsibilities in our M's, then we have turned our back on the very nature of this work...  we cannot HOLD someone responsible...  and we also cannot ENCOURAGE responsibility, if we are not responsible ourselves...

And just to touch on something else, WGH...  I loved what you said about making mistakes...  I find it entertaining that sometimes people feel that if someone makes a mistake once, they are expected to learn from it and never make that same mistake...    the nature of humans...  well...  let's just say that sometimes people seem to have to get burned a few times before the stop putting the wick out with their fingers...  and some...  never learn...  lol

Tolerance...  the ability to respect someone...  even if they choose to make the same mistake...  over...  and over...  and over.... 

SS, I honestly don't know how to respond...

[honour]

my gut/instincts told me there was more to it  and the way my h and many other MLCers are acting is insane my instinct was right and ive seen with my own eyes to believe it....xxxxxxxx

This is the cruz. We know our loved very well. We have have witnessed what we have witnessed, heard them say what they have said and concluded there is something really "off centre" going on here. You search around looking for answers and you come across something called MLC. You read the accounts of others in the situation. You study all you can and with the evidence you have you draw your conclusions.

In my situation, given the "evidence" I conclude my W is MLC (i.e. unbalanced, depressed, disfunctional, whatever terms you wish to use), and a severe case at that. You decide given the case before you.

Its that simple really.

honour

[kaffe diem]

This is a projection if one wants to see it as such and an unofficial, personal diagnosis of my W...  it actually appears that my W might be borderline or have strong borderline tendencies from the day I met her...

That would make sense that I am not seeing as "abnormal" the "craziness" in what might be her MLC...

Anyhow, just wanted to point out that if a WAS / MLCer actually has (undiagnosed) PDs, that could be a reason why the LBS has difficulty seeing their behaviour as odd or MLC like...

[mercury]

Very interesting topic.
I believe that the difference between a MLCer and a WAS is the LBS. We know/feel something is not right and go out and try to figure out what it is, which leads many of us to do research on MLC, WAS and adultery and somewhere between all that reading we come to a conclusion. I believe mine had a MLC but I could always be wrong but as time goes on it  matters less and less. Labeling him MLC has help me to understand and given me a reasons that I need to continue on.

I also believe that LBS can be either suffering from PTS disorder or a MLT brought on by all the evil MLCers behavior and BD.  I know I am a little of both, I spent the last two years trying on different masks, getting tattoos (which I love and wasn't allowed before), wondering what I need to change and who I am, how did I get so old, what should I do, where should I go.... My friends consider some of my behaviors as acting out, which it is.  I also think that all these changes are stages we must go through to find out who we are now that we aren't a husband or wife and that part of us is gone.  Rebuilding self-esteem, self-image is hard enough without dealing with a MLCer or a D.  I am a member of a D group mailing list and I read it from time to time, the only difference between a WAS's LBS and a MLCers LBS is our beliefs.

[StandandDeliver]

I also believe that LBS can be either suffering from PTS disorder or a MLT brought on by all the evil MLCers behavior and BD.  I know I am a little of both, I spent the last two years trying on different masks, getting tattoos (which I love and wasn't allowed before), wondering what I need to change and who I am, how did I get so old, what should I do, where should I go....

mercury, i feel sure that H's departure did the same for me - at first I think I was traumatised, but then I feel that I have been going through a process of transition - from who I had defined myself to be within the context of the marriage and who I thought I would be going forward. The rawness of the experience caused me to peel back all the layers that had come to define me over the years, I felt like an onion with all its layers peeled back to expose the core. And then we try to build the layers up again, but then find that the core has changed shape and grown and the layers need to be altered and adjusted and sometimes discarded as they are rebuilt .

I too got a tattoo - I would never have done this before, but it is a dragonfly (because I have always loved them, I identify them with my childhood, but I see them as a symbol for metamorphosis and also I feel that their movement represents life. Sometimes they seem to hover, but even then they are moving, and other times you can see them whizzing by full of obvious action). Anyway, started out just wanting to agree and now I have gone off on a tangent.... ;-)

[mercury]

StandandDeliver
What great symbolism you expressed with a dragonfly. I always love my after quote about the caterpillar. I got a black rose (we can all read into that one easily) and a dandelion blowing in the wind for my daughter wishes. 

I like to comment on how some think that this topic may put off newbies. From my experience I feel that questioning whether your spouse is a mlcer or a was is all part of the process. I know when I started the pain of reading other threads was sometimes too much for me to bear because I completely understood it. I have never posted on another site so I don't know what they are like and I avoid newbies because it still hurts me. Questions lead to growth and some lead to pain. I use to like to learn and question many things, I don't anymore, I've learned that you don't always have to have an answers. So I hope and believe that a newbie will pick what they need at that time and some topic will have to wait for them to grow or better yet never reach a need to know.

So onto the main topic, I think confusion and personality change is the big indicator of MLC.  My H is different now. He was a good father and isn't anymore, of course I considered him a good h and he's not that anymore either. I've been referring to him as zombie <name> for a while now because his body walking around but his spirit vanished.  His core changed, and no matter what I keep telling myself, he did love me and our family was important to him. Before he became a vanisher he bounced and the things that came out of his mouth made no sense and if I heard one more "I don't know" I might have snapped.  He knew something was wrong and decided to blame me and the marriage instead of finding out what the cause was, he ran and from what I hear he still running, still making things up and still being just a big jerk.  We can each take our situation and make them into MLCer or a WAS depending on how much we sway and twist the truth. This topic was brought up because someone doesn't want to stand for 3,5 or 10 years and does not want to feel guilty that they walked away for their spouse.  Guess what, your not, it may feel that way, I sometime feel that too, but they left, they choose to leave, MLCers are not  legally insane and in the end no one knows if they will come back or not. That burden is their to carry not yours. A MLCer has done wrong, and in time we all will have to find a why to forgive them, not for them but for ourselves, but there is not defining line that says ok you can't D a MLCer but you can a WAS. This is a personally choose, and you will make it when you are ready.  A LBS has to do what is right for them, if it's standing, ending standing or never standing at all. I don't think today that anyone who has stood for their marriage has any reason to feel guilty, even if it is only for a few days.
 
Some where on this website there is a funny story of what a MLC thinks and says. Many found it to not to be funny but I found that it was what finally made me believe that he was in crisis.

[Anjae]

This topic was brought up because someone doesn't want to stand for 3,5 or 10 years and does not want to feel guilty that they walked away for their spouse.  Guess what, your not, it may feel that way, I sometime feel that too, but they left, they choose to leave, MLCers are not  legally insane and in the end no one knows if they will come back or not. That burden is their to carry not yours. A MLCer has done wrong, and in time we all will have to find a why to forgive them, not for them but for ourselves, but there is not defining line that says ok you can't D a MLCer but you can a WAS. This is a personally choose, and you will make it when you are ready.  A LBS has to do what is right for them, if it's standing, ending standing or never standing at all. I don't think today that anyone who has stood for their marriage has any reason to feel guilty, even if it is only for a few days.

This is so true. MCLers are not legally insane, they choose to leave (yes, we know something is wrong with them, so do they), but if we want to divorce them there is no need for us to feel guity. And divorcing them is not the same as not forgiving them.