[StillStanding]

Well once a cheater, you cannot not be one...it isn't possible.  That doesn't imply I cannot move on, stand, be angry, happy, sad, p*** off, etc.  It is not made with any resentment or bitterness.  It is a statment of fact.

No, it's not. Saying someone had an affair is a statement of fact. Labelling someone a "cheater" is a judgment.

As I said before in this thread, the book His Needs, Her Needs describes case after case of people who end up in an affair because their unfulfilled needs make them susceptible to having one. Retrouvaille meetings are filled with couples that have recovered, and are recovering, from affairs.

Yes, going through with having an affair involves a choice on the part of a wayward spouse; but there is a difference between a person who ends up drawn into an affair because they don't know how to ask for what they need (or their spouse can't or won't give it to them) and ends up connecting with someone who does meet that need, and a person who doesn't believe that relationships are meant to be exclusive or that they deserve to have a little action on the side.

[stayed]

I'm sorry StillStanding, but NOBODY is DRAWN into an affair.... unless they want to be.  It just doesn't work that way.  Drawn into something indicates lack of FREE WILL and quite honestly, we all have free will.  You would not accept your children being DRAWN into using DRUGS... they were curious, they were intrigued, their friends did it, so they followed suit, but THEY MADE THE CHOICE... nobody stuck the drug down their throat or the needle in their arm (at least not in most cases). 

Cheating (affairs) has even LESS likelihood of being coerced or forced into doing it.  Please, there is no excuse for ANYBODY to cheat, let's at least be honest and admit, THEY CHOSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.

hugs Stayed

[crazyforhim]

I totally agree with affairs happening because of needs that arent' being met. Does that excuse it- ABSOLUTELY NOT!
I know for a fact I was not giving my H what he needed in the R and OW DEFINITELY was. But then again...my needs were not being met either but I did not run off and have an affair because there wasn't someone conveniently there in my face giving me what I wasn't getting from my spouse. I believe if the OW wasn't there, not sure if H would have gone LOOKING for an OW or just hung in there until there was reason for him to leave. Does that make sense?
BUT NO excusing the affair at all.....

[stayed]

Seriously, crazyforhim, if you believe for one minute that if it had not been this woman then it would not have been some OTHER WOMAN, then you are out to lunch.  This OW is not meeting his EVERY NEED either... nobody can, or ever will be able to.  She is a bandaid...temporary at best... change often.

hugs Stayed

[Silmarion]

I know when I've cheated at something - like a game of cards (which I'm actually rubbish at anyway but hey...!) I know in my heart.  I know in my shame and guilt.  It doesn't make me a bad, evil, awful person but...for me I did some 'lying' in this process.  I tried putting all the blame on my h for eg when he put it all on me.   That was cheating too.  It cannot be all his fault - nor all mine.  But....to mend I have to heal (hopefully he will too one day) to heal I have to open up the wound first.   I certainly didn't like admitting my naff ups but it has helped me move - not always forward I might add but move and move is change and....well 'nuff said!!!!


Sil x

[crazyforhim]

Yes Stayed..that's what I was trying to say. It was someone..anyone that was there TRYING to meet his needs (or what he thinks will fill his needs) I know it is a bandaid...I was just trying to say that it didn't matter who was there to catch him but there was someone there to catch him otherwise I think he would have hung onto the cliff for as long as it took until someone came along to catch him. (anyone but ME)

[stayed]

Ok... gottcha crazyforme...    can't seem to follow the plot today... hehehe  .  You are so right, he was looking for something wasn't he and as you said, ANYBODY BUT YOU! Mine was the same way... grrrrrrrrrrrr  Some choice words just ran through my mind, but I am going to resist... but it's hurting bad...

hugs Stayed

[crazyforhim]

I'm just not as good with words as you are stayed...LOL! And yes, the hurt is unbelievable sometimes but you are one who always seems to know what to say.
Now we need to be the ones to catch them when they are about to fall off the cliff...should be soon cause you can only hang on for so long, right?

[StillStanding]

Cheating (affairs) has even LESS likelihood of being coerced or forced into doing it.  Please, there is no excuse for ANYBODY to cheat, let's at least be honest and admit, THEY CHOSE TO HAVE AN AFFAIR.

Yes, they did. And I even stated that.

But people make choices for the wrong reasons all of the time; it's part of being human (the "sinful nature of man", if you subscribe to that particular belief). I don't know if you've noticed, but just about every thread on this forum has people who have done—or are still doing!—things out of fear, or anger, or weakness; they "just can't help themselves" when they start pressuring their MLCer, or they "need" to ask questions they know they don't want to hear the answers to. If we LBSes get a pass because we're hurting, how come our MLCers don't when they're hurting? Heck, at least we know that we're in crisis, so what's our excuse?!

I have a question for people who believe  "once a cheater, always a cheater"; if your MLCer has had an affair, why are you Standing? They're still going to be a "cheater" when they come out of the tunnel. Aren't you worried that they are going to do this again? Or is your plan to be a reminder of their moral failings—are you thinking of introducing your spouse as "Mr. or Mrs. XXX, the cheater"?

"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." —Matthew 7:1-2

[Anjae]

Still, a normal affair and a MLC affair are very different. I know people that have had affairs, normal ones, none of them did what our MCLers have. As soon as they got caught they tried to solve the situation. Even the ones that end up divorced because the spouse did not wished to be married, were not mean, cruel, nasty or abandoned the spouse or kids. It is very easy to recover from a normal affair compared to a MLC affair.

Sorry but I don’t subscribe to the unfulfilled needs theory in MLC. Maybe in a normal affair that is true 8even so I have my doubts, most of the times the argument of unfulfilled needs is just an excuse for bad behaviour), but not in MCL. Even with all theirs needs more than fulfilled MCLers would still have an affair. And there are non MLC people who have all theirs needs meet by the spouse and still have affairs. I know some like that as well. They are addict to the rush that comes with the affair. That’s all. And the rush that comes with the affair is not a need, is an addiction.

Again, the LBS did not created the hurt nor the destruction. Sorry, I know the MCLers are in crisis but that is not a free pass to run over the LBS, let alone to excuse their behaviour. Even less to have the LBS think it is their fault or they have some flaw that took the MCLer into its crisis.