[Rookie13]

Crazy, txt him "call me when you can if you want, i understand, it is tough". and leave it at that. H was/is a big part of your life as you were of his Dads I assume.

If he does call, try to keep the call centered around the Annv. and just relate is my best guess.

He may be experiencing a whole bunch of different emotions. not just the annv.

[Anjae]

Yes, sounds like the end of the conversation. Just let him be, crazy. He may be talking about OW, or more in general about people who nerver lost a parent won't be able to understand. Fact is he needed you, not OW for that.

Not sure if "I'm here if you need to talk" was too needy, since you're in talking terms, but no harm in have not said it.

[LettingGo]

Exactly though- so hard to know what to say, how to act and don't want to be pursuing or too in his face.

Don't overthink this. He reached out to you because YOU ARE REAL... OW is temporary and not "real" for him... he knows this.

Just for the record, if your husband initiates contact and you respond or engage, it is NOT pursuing.... you're only talking about HIS feelings anyway at this point.... you really are there to just nod and go "Umm... it must be tough.... I know how you feel..... tell me more...."

[Gutted]

I've been reading this, and question much of it.  That the OW is a doormat, into their money, the relationship won't last, etc.

IDK.  Why 'isn't' it real/true?   In my case, yes I believe the affair began out of his unhappiness/inner conflict, and I do believe she was very proactive in pulling him away to her.   But my husband's relationship began at work and as friends perhaps years and years ago.   The OW divorced her husband of 38 years right at the time my husband was leaving.   Sadly, I now think it was all planned out despite my husband filing for D then dismissing the case a month later promising me the world and sounding happy. 
I think they just grew together and while his choice in her is very a-typical (she's a decade older and looks 20 years older, 'very' unattractive, hated at work, and the relationship has folks 'creeped out'), she does make good money and can talk/spin amazingly well which is very ripe for an easily led man that puts an odd value on speaking ability. 

The other thing...  this is a rant...  I have a right to be interested in if their affair is still going on, what they are doing etc.   One might say MLC is MLC and he'd be in this place with or without OW.  I disagree.  I know if OW wasn't in the picture, we'd be minimally in counseling right now and the divorce process would be either stalled or not re-filed like it has been.  Actually I'll be bold to say we'd be together.   Period.   So yes she exists in my world.  It's been blatantly going on for over a year now via factual evidence (tho I believe building/existing before this), and went public in October.  8 months ago.  Going public at work (they work together) seemed to cause a ramp up in their 'publicness'.

I've tried to slow the D process on the chance the affair would fizzle but it's not.  Seems to be going strong.   So I think in my case, it might be just a matter of falling in love with someone close to them at work and going for it.

Meanwhile, my atty filed a Motion to Dismiss/Strike which sent him over the edge to where my highly educated, classy husband decided to break into our house he abandoned 1.3 years ago to cherry pick belongings and snoop.   

But I truly believe most of us here, if OW/OM went away, we'd be in a different place.  I see OW/OM as the big stumbling block in all this and no matter if MLC or not-MLC led them to the affair...  I see it as the elephant in the room and hard to get past that.  How can one work on salvaging their relationship if spouse is so happy with their new person?   

[Ready2Transform]

I'm sure there are others that will be able to answer you better here, but there are a few things as an observer I can see from this that fit script. 

But my husband's relationship began at work and as friends perhaps years and years ago.   The OW divorced her husband of 38 years right at the time my husband was leaving.   

I see a convenient, "first available, willing partner" scenario.  A lot of us have that - women they worked with, mutual friends.  In my case, my H's OW was one of the few women that took part in the only thing he did outside of our work together - colonial war reenacting.  Availability, dissatisfaction with her own marriage = instant bond.

Sadly, I now think it was all planned out despite my husband filing for D then dismissing the case a month later promising me the world and sounding happy. 

They don't fence-sit like that if it was planned.  Sounds like the MLC tactic of fence-straddling to feel out what he wants to do. 

One might say MLC is MLC and he'd be in this place with or without OW.  I disagree.  I know if OW wasn't in the picture, we'd be minimally in counseling right now and the divorce process would be either stalled or not re-filed like it has been.  Actually I'll be bold to say we'd be together.   Period. 

I'd like to say this too.  I think I read that men tend to leave once there's someone else in the picture, but that doesn't make the relationship that was there before any better, so you may have still been getting Monster, or seeing the MLC in your face, even without the OP.

Meanwhile, my atty filed a Motion to Dismiss/Strike which sent him over the edge to where my highly educated, classy husband decided to break into our house he abandoned 1.3 years ago to cherry pick belongings and snoop.

That's straight up MLC.  What's he looking for?  If it were just an affair and he was so happy, he would just get with his attorney to decide how to respond.

The OP changes the equation in so many ways, that's true, and we all have to decide whether or not that makes this worth it.  Certainly if it's just an affair, it wouldn't explain all of the other behaviors.  I truly hope that the pain this is causing subsides for you.   It's a horrible position to be in, but know that in your world, you may consider it your business to know right now, but you can also consider yourself so far above her that you can't even see her. 

[Anjae]

Gutted, OW/OM going away may not change things. Several of us have spouses who went through multiple OW/OM. When OW1 went away mine wanted to date me, turn me into his girlfriend. I now know that, at the time, he was already chatting up soon to be OW2 as well as several other women.

OW/OM may not always been after the money, they may be in need of, like the MLCer, to feel alive. Doormat I think they are. After all they took a married person for their partner. One cannot say they are very demanding. The relationship can last several years. Normally, even if it lasts several years, it fails.

Yes, you have the right to be interested in their affair. Or to not be interested. It is your choice.

[FindingJoJo]

But I truly believe most of us here, if OW/OM went away, we'd be in a different place.  I see OW/OM as the big stumbling block in all this and no matter if MLC or not-MLC led them to the affair...  I see it as the elephant in the room and hard to get past that

I totally agree with this statement.  But I do know that he isn't all that happy and BIL is waiting to see him fall even further before he does anything more.  H is adamant he doesn't want a divorce to his BIL and says he has to prove something so whatever that is, oh well.  In mean time I know I can't do anything, I am moving forward and love the fact that OW isn't all she thinks she is. 

Editted for wrong quote brackets ,  <= [              >=]
RCR used the other ones in her exa,ple so you could see them in the post

[JAG]

I was wondering....for those Hs that don't come out of the tunnel, can we simply expect them to continue their life with OW...since this "new" them is the one that stays permanent? Also, if OW1 leaves can we expect OW2 to come along for those who have given up everything without turning back? Also, do MLCers stay with OW longer if they have walked out of wife and young kids? Meaning...the more they have given up and the more damage they have done, the less likely they are to move through the tunnel and the more likely to try and make it work with OW?

I can see that with OW there are no bills to pay, no "responsibilities" at the beginning...but then they recreate what they have given up...so isn't it easier to simply stay with OW than have it not work out and face the guilt, the shame, etc, etc?

[In this for ME]

I can see that with OW there are no bills to pay, no "responsibilities" at the beginning...but then they recreate what they have given up...so isn't it easier to simply stay with OW than have it not work out and face the guilt, the shame, etc, etc?

This was what I was afraid of with my EXH that the guilt and shame would eat him up so badly he would never face things and/or work on our relationship.

This only turned around when I agreed with him that we should see other people. He simply could not bear the thought of me being with someone else. I've been living with him for the past year now and the relationship leaves A LOT to be desired.

Maybe in some cases maybe it is just easier not to work on it..but the SAME issues are there with another woman.

And frankly I wish I hadn't taken all the phone calls I did and "been there" for him validating etc. He needed a snootful of what it would REALLY be like TOTALLY without me. I never went NC and wish I had.

[Anjae]

JAG, an OW2, 3, 4 can come along but that does not mean they are going to stay forever in the tunnel. In some cases, if they are short lived several OW it may even be better.

However I think that you’re on something. The more damage they’ve done, the longer they stay with the same alienator , especially if it is alienator nº 2 (3, 4) and the more they have invested with the alienator, the more difficult I may become for them to get out and return.

My husband had no joint bills to pay with OW1, he was living in rented rooms, she lived kilometres away with her parents. With OW2 they put up a big fancy trendy flat, they have all the bills a couple has. So much for not wanting responsibility. Plus, OW2 has lost her job late last year.

But, no, I don’t think my husband minds paying her bills. He is making a lot of money, showing it off to her.

Now, the problem with the MLCers that remain married and live with OW, not paying alimony, not looking after the spouse is, when divorce comes, they will have to compensate us. And, then, life with OW will be a little different.

Can they overcome the shame and guilt? Most of them, yes.

Yes, I would say it is easier to stay with OW than work all the issues. Problem is the relationship with OW will change. At a point the fantasy will give in. Unless, of course, they stay forever trapped in the tunnel. But that is rare. What is common is for many MLCers to end up on their own. The OW is gone, the LBS has mover forward, they are left on their own.