[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

I have touched on this briefly in other threads, but I'm going to REALLY put it out there now.  I'm standing for a full restoration of my marriage.  I  know that everyone's got different circumstances that can seem impossible to overcome whether it's an OP or drug use or whatever.  But I get extremely discouraged about my own situation some days because it's only me there to be my H's "reward" as he eventually exits the tunnel.  Maybe once he completes his journey he is going to realize I'm not enough.
I've known my H for 17 years (dated 6 years, married 11 years).  We married when we were both 24 years old and now we're both 36 years old.  All of this time of being best friends and discussing our dreams and our hopes for the future together, kids weren't part of what either of us desired.  We had a few clear-cut talks during our dating years about having kids and came to the conclusion (happily I thought) it isn't for us.  We even said if we changed our minds later we could always adopt, not a big deal.  Then in all our 11 years of marriage my H never mentioned any sort of change of heart until months after BD when he'd turned Monster, was listing my "flaws" and one of them is I NEVER GAVE HIM A SON.    Wha?!?  I know we've said we cannot believe what they say and only 50% of what they do, but man there's no way for me to tell you how much that's bothering me!

[Dontgiveup]

Wed2Him4Ever

Those statements from MLCers are very hurtful, though not unusual.  I've had this conversation with a few other LBS who do not have children, and have compared that to statements from some who do have children.

Since MLC has elements of a "do-over" to the MLCer, it's typical of them to verbalize whichever situation they are not in as what they "wish" were true.  In other words, many MLCers who did not have children are angry about not having them.....while at the same time, many MLCers who do have children have said some hurtful things about "wishing" they had not had children, or that they didn't want the responsibility.  And we know some MLCers abandon the children.

So, as is typical for MLC, whatever their situation is with children, they can often express that they wish it were the opposite.

[WarriorPriestess]

Wed2Him, my H and I do not have children.  We are not married.  I still stand.  I don't think it necessarily makes a difference one way or another how things turn out in the long run, but that's just me.

[BonBon]

Hi Wed,
Maybe I can offer some thoughts on this as we don't have kids either (a wonderfully spoiled dog is the only other anchor so to speak).  At any rate, our circumstances are different because we intended to have them but did not, due to me and some physical issues.  It could have been explored more but I dropped the ball.  We married later and so the clock ticked quickly.  I'm making a long and involved and complicated story very short here.  Suffice to say, we don't have them and though I knew it was a regret, I thought that our marriage was so happy, it was ok.  That's what I was consistently told at least.

So, much to my surprise, this came up too in a major way and when I asked why it was such a big issue now when it was not before, I was told that it was because he had to leave a "legacy".  Now maybe I'm disecting gender lines more than I should...and forgive me please if anyone reads this and finds the legacy important but....I don't.  To me, that is not the reason to have children.  But, with that said, I realized through other conversations that there was alot to this for H.  For one thing, his feelings are that he hasn't made any kind of mark on the world.  Having a child apparently would have resolved that (though I don't think so or MLC would be limited to childless couples).  He also found it embarrasing, shameful even...he worried that people would perceive us as selfish.  Well, some people do think that....but I've yet to have someone tell me why in any way that makes sense since we involve ourselves with charities and issues beyond ourselves...so when I've heard I'm selfish for not having them, I dismiss it entirely.  But apparently my H does not.

Eventually, when I kept pushing this issue, I told him we can explore avenues be they adoption, foster children, and so forth.  He wanted no part of that and said the baby we should have had MUST come from his loins.  Interesting since he himself was adopted as an infant.  So I pushed more.  Finally, I said that if he wanted/needed to have children, I understood.  I said that as a man, he was able to produce long after me and I did not want to carry the burden of robbing him of that the rest of my life so, if that was the case, please leave me and find someone to have children with and know that you are doing so with my blessing.  And I meant every word.  I actually feared he would but hoped he would at the same time.  The only thing I asked was that he not string me along for years and then decide to do this.  He promised not to.  But of course he never gave me an answer out right.  Finally, I pushed again on that and he said it was not what he wanted to do.  I drove it again hard.  He said no, really, it was only one thing in a huge sea of things that he regretted. 

Later, I found that the ego aspect of this was stronger than even the simple desire to love and nurture children.  And that is when I really gave up talking about it and decided it was just another aspect of MLC.  We all have regrets...I do as well and on this issue in fact but I can't dwell on everything I didn't do and I certainly did not want kids to assuage my ego.  I don't believe that is why he wanted them either but it certainly was one aspect that came to bear during MLC.

So, I write all this because I think that you might be seeing as much MLC as anything and perhaps just that...

I hope this somehow helped...at least to know you aren't the only one who has seen this.

Hugs.

[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

Since MLC has elements of a "do-over" to the MLCer, it's typical of them to verbalize whichever situation they are not in as what they "wish" were true.  In other words, many MLCers who did not have children are angry about not having them.....while at the same time, many MLCers who do have children have said some hurtful things about "wishing" they had not had children, or that they didn't want the responsibility.  And we know some MLCers abandon the children.

Yes I know you're right; I've heard this myself too.  I think at some point though we all look at ourselves and say our situation will be the exception to the MLC rule, that our spouse was faking all the happy years but is finally being honest with us in MLC.

Wed2Him, my H and I do not have children.  We are not married.  I still stand.  I don't think it necessarily makes a difference one way or another how things turn out in the long run, but that's just me.

Thanks for the feedback, ladies.  I don't know what is wrong with me.  I am really down on myself today, feeling so depressed.

[Wed2Him?Whatever.]

So, much to my surprise, this came up too in a major way and when I asked why it was such a big issue now when it was not before, I was told that it was because he had to leave a "legacy".  Now maybe I'm disecting gender lines more than I should...and forgive me please if anyone reads this and finds the legacy important but....I don't.  To me, that is not the reason to have children.  But, with that said, I realized through other conversations that there was alot to this for H.  For one thing, his feelings are that he hasn't made any kind of mark on the world.  Having a child apparently would have resolved that (though I don't think so or MLC would be limited to childless couples).  He also found it embarrasing, shameful even...he worried that people would perceive us as selfish.

That is the word my H used too, LEGACY!  I'd never heard him talk like that.  It's like all of a sudden once he started to get his validation from Facebook he was seeing these "Kodak moments" of kids his high school buddies now have and it got to him in some way.  He is godfather to his friend's 2 kids and he hadn't bothered seeing them much at all until a few months after BD & now he won't do a thing with them unless he's able to take photos and post them to Facebook.  It's amazing how he changed!

[WarriorPriestess]

Thanks for the feedback, ladies.  I don't know what is wrong with me.  I am really down on myself today, feeling so depressed.

Awww, I've been there myself lately.  This too shall pass.  ***HUGS***

[Tigger]

I have 3 children from my first marriage, she has 2 from her first, we both decided 17 years ago we had enough. we have talked about having one of our own several times but never went beyond talk.

All of our children are adults, So other than the fact that she blames my children( their mother was a narcisist, that only knows hate) for the rift, then shows concern for them. Her children whom we raised support me and are trying to control their anger toward their mother, I have sent them some stuff to read, but it still doesn't assuage the betrayel they feel.

Personally I have ended my stand, When she started having sex with the OM as far as I am concerned the marriage has ended. I have lived through this before with my first wife and stayed with her through 3 boyfriends over 12 years, My wife and I have been married for 17 years. The betrayel is too much for me get past right now. For me the D has to happen, it will set things right again in that I know that there were consrquences for bad behaviour, if in the future she comes to her senses then maybe we can see if we have anything left.

I do not blame others for standing, even if it is a futile gesture such as was the case with my first wife, especially if small children are involved. All 5 of mine (all girls (30,30,27,25,21)) tell me that I deserve better, that I need to move on to someone who will treat me right. I agree to a point. regardless it is what it is.

Would she be willing to reconcile, I believe so, she knows she does not want to divorce me, but is drawn to OM who knowing she was married went to work on her. Intentionally developed their relationship and is working now to get her to divorce me, I keep telling her to do it but she doesn't want to.

[ziggee]

 1st, I really wonder if I would choose to stand if it was not for the kids.  But you know... now that I think of it... they never really come up in my mental arguments.  I know right now the kids are number one priority and I need to detach and GAL so I can be there for them and myself and not get sucked in and not fall apart... 2nd... If/When W comes out of the fog... I think it is the kids she is going to start saying first... Not quite answer the question... I guess  I can't help but think kids are a factor

Me

[StandingTall]

I wonder about the chances of reconciliation without kids, too. XH and I have none...feels so weird to call him that now!! Only been a few weeks since D. But OW has no children either, she's been thru 2 marriages now. Thinking she's way too self centered to want or have any. He had said he'd thought about kids at first then decided no...think that decision was a result of having his mom leave him and his sister when he was about 7th grade, S was younger. Funny, but S and H were tied at the hip and now with OW in the pic it's changed. When we were together, it was tough sometimes when S had no BF...it felt sometimes like there was no room for me!! Few months back H mentioned he didn't see S but rarely now!! Sorry, rambling!! All that has happened to us has been so contrary to what he believed or wanted to ever happen...no sense!! And to think many of our best friends went out of their way and risked their friendships with him to try to talk sense into him!!! He no longer speaks to them!! Some are older folks and so dismayed by it all and saddened to think they may never see him again!! I don't get MLC!!!!