[Faith]

I won't recap my story here, but after 2 years of serious MCL with all the classic behaviors, my H is now divorcing me.  I had to take him to court to get temporary support as he had cut me off financially.  I got a very fair temporary support order, but he also got visitation of my two girls ages 17 & 14.  So far my D17 has refused to see him, and D14 has seen him very little - a couple of hours at a time.  They are supposed to spend two evenings a week and every other weekend with him.  It's only been a week of visitation, so I'm expecting H to become more forceful and demanding of them during "his time".

You guys, I am struggling with this so much.  I don't want my girls to live with anger, but if I'm honest I'm glad when they don't want to see him.  He has emotionally tortured all three of us and is now financially destroying us.  He has an OW that he's still lying about, even though he's been seen with her.  He doesn't deserve our girls, and is nothing but a horrible example to them.  It makes me SO angry that I'm now expected to give up half my weekends with my kids, and worse that they're expected to leave their comfortable home to go stay somewhere they don't want to be (he lives in old office space over his auto body shop).  Like all MLCers, he has done nothing wrong, and if my girls express any disagreement with his actions they're told to "get over it and move forward".

How do you let go of the injustice of it all and cope with this person destoying your kids' security, demanding they stay with him, and taking your time with your kids away?  I just can't figure out how to do it.  I think I'd rather him be a deadbeat and go on welfare if it meant he would go away forever.

[subooru]

Hi Faith:

I don't know if I have much wisdom, but my daughter was 16 nearly 17 when this MLC started.  H was not difficult with her at first, but over the past year he has been quite mean and hurtful. She is 19 now, and does not have to see her father if she doesn't want to, so I don't have the same issues you have at this point.

The only advice I can give you is to be as honest with your girls as you can be.  I let my daughter know that I did not agree with my H's choices, and that she does need to be respectful, even if she doesn't agree or understand her father.  I have tried to help my daughter understand that her dad is in a bad place (as best as I can tell), and that he does love her.  I wouldn't force them to go to their father, they are old enough to say "no", but then you will need to communicate with your H about why the girls don't want to be around him.

Help them to set boundaries just like you need to set your boundaries.  As far as accepting that they may have to go to their father, you have to just let go.  Be strong for them, stay positive and don't bash their father (even if it's deserved).  I grew up with a mother who bashed my father for years and years and it created quite a huge rift when my father was wanting to reconnect with me.  I believe now that my father had a MLC and it explains alot of his behavior toward me when I was a teenager.

I wish I had more wisdom to offer.  I am so sorry you are in this place. I will pray for you and your daughters.  Be strong for your girls.  When I was able to be strong for my daughter and show her the way adults should behave, she gravitated toward that.  We struggled for a while as she initially blamed me (as my H had been blaming me) for the crisis in our home.  When H left, she saw that was not the case and things became clearer.  I don't relish that she is angry at her father (they had been very close at one time), but I respect her position.  I hope that in time and when H comes back to earth, they can have a strong relationship again.  Daughters need their fathers, but not necessarily when that father is in MLC.

Take care of you!
Subooru

[kikki]

Faith - I'm sorry that you're dealing with this. 
We have three teenaged sons 13, 15 and 17.
Nothing has been formalised but my H has been gone for 17mths, although he's a very clingy boomeranger, and it hasn't been easy re the boys.
He threatened to drag them through the courts on a few occasions to force them to see him, but hasn't ever followed through, as he now knows that the boys would all be asked for their opinion.  And if they don't want to see him, then no one in this country will force them.

That caused all kinds of monster, but eventually it settled, and as he's slowly become less agitated, angry and less foggy, they do agree to see him at times.  (this is very recent).
They have not once stayed with him though, nor have they met the OW.
They have made their boundaries very clear in this regard.

Is there some way that your daughters can have a formal opinion on the matter and get the visitation altered?
I completely understand you not wanting them to be around him in this state.  Our boys find too much time with my H exhausting, as he is far from himself still, although the fog seems to be clearing a bit.
I agree with subooru, help them with setting boundaries, and help them to express themselves to him.  That it is okay to disagree with their Dad, even though that is a very difficult thing to do.
All the very best with this

[poussin]

Hi F
Just want to say I'm sorry for you and your girls that you have to deal with this.
I acted like Subooru, I was as honest as I could be and informed our S14 about MLC. In my case divorce is pending, but my H is not following through out of lack of money he says. As far as I know he lives in a very small apartment and says he doesn't have the space to 'have' our S over at weekends. But I allow him to see his S whenever he wants, but that is very seldom. They go for a drink or play some pool. Our S just wants to keep his dad 'happy' and doesn't give his opinion about the situation. He trusts in the process of MLC and on me being strong. It has happened that he didn't want to meet with his dad, and then he gave the excuse of having to much homework, or he is just being honest and says simply I don't feel up to it. And my H is fine with that because he doesn't want to force him.
Yesterday my H admitted to me that he does very little for his S. Maybe a turning point ...

Poussin

[StandandDeliver]

Faith, I don't know where you are and laws vary greatly from place to place, but I know that in many places the court is required to take the feelings of the children into account regarding visitation when they are over the age of 12.

I would check with a lawyer to find out where you stand with this. If the visitation HAS to take place, perhaps it is worth encouraging your girls to go. Tell them that you know it is hard, but he will always be their father and they don't have to like his behaviour or decisions but that they will regret not trying to have a relationship with him. That underneath it all, he loves them. Apart from anything else, if you have been" kind" about him, it makes anything he may say about you look even more nasty to them. If he starts on with the "you have no idea how hard it was to live with your mother" type crap, then they KNOW that he is justifying his own behaviour. And they know who the "bigger" person is.

My kids are alot younger, so I know that dealing with teenagers is a different kettle of fish, but I think that protecting them from the worst aspects of divorce (fighting, angry parents) is still a priority and just about all that you can really do at this point. If he wants to be the angry, fighting one, let him. Show them dignity and grace and, at least around them, rise above the destructive behaviour. That's my 2 cents anyway...

[turkisheye]

I too will be struggling with this soon. My H left 4 weeks ago and my girls have refused to see him. He has tried to blame me for this a couple of times but I have not stood for that. My Ds are 15 and 13. He has sent them a few texts since he left, all of the 'sorry about this, miss you love you' type and one on each of their birthdays. They have not replied as they don't know what to say.

I had a conversation with D15 after school one day (H does not seem to get their unacceptance of their lives)

Me - Have you thought any more about meeting your dad?

D - I wouldn't know what to say.

Me - Just chat to him about anything. You know normal stuff.

D - But this isn't normal.

Me - This might have to be your 'new' normal.

D - I don't want it to be. I don't want any of this at all.

My SIL has told me that I have to force them to meet their dad and let them sort it out in person themselves. I am uncomfortable with that at this time. I will not stop them seeing their dad but after thinking about SIL comments I am no longer prepared to mention it to them at the moment. H expects them to do all the work. When we spoke the other day I asked if he wanted me to pass a message onto the girls. He said 'they know where I am if they want me' Pffft! Who's the grown up?

Like all MLCers, he has done nothing wrong, and if my girls express any disagreement with his actions they're told to "get over it and move forward".

How do you let go of the injustice of it all and cope with this person destoying your kids' security, demanding they stay with him, and taking your time with your kids away?  I just can't figure out how to do it.

Typical MLC comment there. This is what he says when he has nothing better to say. He cannot dispute their feelings so this is the best he can do. Make it their problem.

I struggle with the injustice of it all too. My heart goes out to you and your girls. I would try to find out if their views can be taken into consideration as they are obviously not happy with the current arrangements. I would like to try and let my girls find their own time to reconnect with their dad and hope that my hand is not forced like yours.

Hugs to you all, TE

[kikki]

Seems that the general consensus from counsellors and the family court etc is that when kids have been dealt this kind of trauma, they shouldn't be forced into anything.  They need time to grieve, and any rebuilding of the relationship will have to be on the kids terms, not on the demands of the abandoning parent.

This of course is all a bit of a nightmare to try to explain to a MLCer.
I too kept on stepping in to try to smooth things over between my H and our sons, but once again, counsellors kept telling me to step out of the way - to let them sort it out themselves.
Hmmmm - that, in my experience was very traumatic in the first 19 months or so.  It's only since the fog has started to roll back a little, and my H has apologised and taken full responsibility for the muck he has dragged the boys through, that they have opened their hearts to him a little. They are still VERY wary of him though.

[niff naff]

Faith

My X H did take me to court for visitation over our 13 year old son, our boy had met H OW a couple of times, and he even told his dad he did not want to meet her or her family again, my X wanted some plans in writting from the court regarding holidays and overnight stays, nobody can make your children over the age of 12 do anything that they don't want to, you have to look like you are at least trying,  eventually, my X got awarded, three weeks holiday in the year, no overnight stays as he lives with OW, and the judge took this into account that our Son doesn't want to met her, and when he takes our Son on holiday she cannot go, she also has to get out of the house they share, if my boy is to visit.

Hope this helps,  My H was monster to the extreme, and would terrify us with his shouting and abuse.

Hugs

[ece711]

In my situation I have 2 sons 11 and 7 years old.  I get them every Thursday, Friday, Saturday, & Sun Morning til 8:00 am.  Since my son are young they are easily swayed into thinking that this was just like other divorce where they spend time with mom and some with dad.  X wife of course already introduced the OM to them and since the way to a you child's heart is to give them anything they have wanted...  PS3, XBOX360, Nintendo Wii, and a trip to Disney which includes being picked up in a limo.  To them OM is cool.  I don't say anything bad about the other side.  Inside me I just have the urge to tell them how this happened, but I bite my tounge because I know someday they will ask me that question.

At first you feel that you have to compete... my advise, DON'T.  Also you might feel the urge to ask the kids what goes on in the other house, my advise don't. It is better for you not to hear what goes on over there...  it hurts, but when the divorce becomes official...  go ahead and grieve, cry, but realize that you have to pick yourself up in order for you to function for your children.  Try to create a new environment, atmosphere, and tradition, this way the kids can look forward to something when they are with you (frday night movies, or ice cream night).

For those who have older kids that knows who did what to whom, consider yourself blessed.  Just encourage them to maintain a relationship with their Mom/Dad.  If they harbor ill feelings towards them, guide them to do the right thing but don't force them... that will take time too. 

Hopefully this helps

[LisaLives]

I thought I might actually have something to contribute here, but since I left my S13 this am balled up on his bed crying because he will never have another "normal" holiday, while I had to go to a meeting, after which I got a note from one of S15's teachers that we need a conference--I think it's fair to say I am not doing a very good job of parenting, so any advice I have on "sharing" kids could readily be discounted...  All I know is divorced parenting SUCKS and I hate it.  The good part is the time you have alone and not walking on eggshells in your own home.  The bad part is the pain they endure and the loneliness of not always having another parent around, and the end of "normal" holidays...  Maybe I'll get back on track and post some tips later, I do know a lot of things NOT to do...  But I have to get my kids settled first...  Love and light, Lisa