[FixingMyself]

Hi Everyone,

Its really early days for me BD August, moved out 2 weeks ago into new apartment with other much younger woman.

I know my husband has been depressed for some time as his drinking has been on and off for a while especially affected by dissapointments at work it really esculated over this last year. When he got into bed he would tell me that he was "sad". He started his PA in October so then we saw more Monster behavoiur, playing on phone, abandoning......etc

I was trying to work on our marraige and connect with him and he did say a couple of times he would consider talking to someone on his own- meaning therapy. And I know that his brother, who he deeply respects, and is the only person he has confided in (though not fully) has told him to get therapy as he suffers with depression himself.

As he is infatuated and just got promoted at work he was a a lot more upbeat today so I cant imagen that he will be interetsed any time soon, or that I will even have an opportunity to broach the subject or even encourage him in the near future. I found out we get fully covered for therapy on our insurance.

So what I want to know is........does anyone have experience of getting their MLCers to therapy does it help? Or is it something which has to wait untill much further down the line?

My husband is not convinced of the positives of therapy but what really bothers me is he is not talking to anyone (except OW and then I doubt he confides anything). He does not answer phone to people, does not reach out and is numbing sorrows with infatuation chemicals, work and alchohol.

I know I am supposed to fix myself and I am really...... I'm going to get accused of trying to mend him when its his journey but I am interested if people have examples of it happening and helping or other suggestions.

[kikki]

Hi FixingM
It's normal to ask these questions.  It's very early days for you yet.
I didn't find this forum until a year post BD, so I did all of the wrong things.

My H was anxious and monstery to the extreme.  Knowing nothing of MLC and knowing this was not the man I'd known for 23 years, I managed to drag him along to marriage counselling (in the naive hope that the psychologist would encourage him to sort his issues which had surfaced - duh!), he lasted three sessions - said he was very sorry but that something had shifted in his head, and that his family had a history of running from their problems.  Full stop.  Hmmmm .......

None the wiser - I twisted his arm about seeing another psychologist.  He went for one session by himself.  Announced that there was nothing wrong with him.

We're now 2 years post BD, and my H has asked me to attend counselling re the boys who refuse to have much to do with him.  His insight into his behaviour and actions is currently at zero, but this does cycle.  He has apologised a few times for the hurt, but away he cycles again.

A couple of months later, I managed to get him to an anxiety disorders clinic.  They told him to go on meds for six months and have therapy.  He went to three sessions, and at the finale in front of me announced with a grin on his face that he'd spend his life doing what others wanted, and he was going to be selfish now.  Never a truer word was spoken!!!

Looking back, and knowing what I know now, I am completely amazed that I managed to get him to any sessions. 

It is a complete and utter waste of time while in replay.  If they go, they use it to justify their actions, and worse, may find a therapist who encourages them to be 'happy' ...........

I wouldn't push therapy - all they do is see it as yet more pressure

[watching and waiting]

Hi Fixing myself,
Sorry you find yourself here.
kiki is right.  Whilst in Replay, therapy will not help.
My H went to therapy in the beginning.....said it was helping...then used the times he was supposed to be there to see OW.
The A is an addition and until they start to wake up and see exactly what they have caused, there is no point.

HUGS

[justasking]

FM

At this stage most MLCers use the OW/OM to counsel them through their despair and get the ego stroking they need. They use therapy at this stage to justify why they need to leave. They also take info  they like and need and discard the rest.

When in replay they are not ready to deal with the inner issues. All you can do is let him go on his journey and trust the process.

His upbeat behaviour is because he thinks he is now finding 'happiness', which will last for a short time before his depression increases again. All part of the process 

xx

[Ez]

Hi FixingMyself,

Firstly I think your writing about my H, stress and dissatisfaction at work, numbing problems with medication and alcohol, not talking to or reaching out anyone etc.

H and I agreed to have individual therapy mid last year after realising  things were not going well.  After one session where H talked only about the marriage problems H's counsellor said if he wanted to work on marriage he had to bring me along.  I agreed.  Initially h wasn't to impressed because he wanted to blame me for everything and counsellor wouldn't let him and challenged his thoughts.  When I realised H was having panic attacks in sessions and was pre-medicating before sessions I realised that unless H started to work on and acknowledge some of his issues we weren't going to achieve anything.  When I raised this with counsellor I was told I couldn't keep blaming anxiety on problems and that he (counsellor) could fix his anxiety in only a few sessions.  He said I was being resistant to therapy.  After this things went downhill and when H complained about things I hadn't done the counsellor took his side and said what I was doing was not good enough and I was not living up to my end of bargain.  When I finally had a breakdown due to pressure of being so criticised and blamed I was then told by counsellor that I had to stop playing the sick card to keep my husband.  At the time this gave H the out he needed as it was confirmed by a counsellor that I wasn't good enough and that night he left.  At the time I was baffled because I had been setting goals with my own counsellor, physiotherapist and doctor and had been achieving these goals.  I was doing everything that i had been told to do by all my professionals and by H's counsellor.  I was very open to accepting responsibility for the part I played in my marriage and the things I needed to work on and change.

I can see now that the counsellor didn't get or see the full picture.  H wasn't in a place to admit or acknowledge his faults or problems or to take any responsibility for the role he played.  He was out to blame me for everything and managed to turn the counsellor around to his side.  He wasn't honest with the counsellor and only shared a small part of his true self.  I think he was to afraid to face his demons from his childhood and within himself, an earlier psychiatrist that he saw 5 years ago wrote in his report that until h is ready to face his problems then he will continue to have problems and lead to further problems in the future.

So in my opinion unless the therapy is embraced by the spouse and they are ready to admit the problems, get help and follow any advice given then no I don't think it can help.  Obviously this is based on my experience but i do believe that no therapy is worthwhile unless both parties are ready for it.  Having said that it doesn't stop you from supporting and encouraging your spouse to have therapy if they bring it up or talk about it, I just wouldn't push it on them.  Even if they do go, therapy can be very confronting and it may take a few attempts before they really embrace it.  Once again all you can do is encourage and support and not judge them if it doesn't work the first, second or third time.  Even if they do give up on therapy they can always go back at a later date when they are more ready.

My only other opinion is don't be afraid to change counsellors or therapists if it's not working for you after a number of sessions.  Like anyone you meet in life you you will not always click with all therapists.  While you do need to give it a bit of time and be patient there is no rule to say you have to stay with someone that is clearly not working for you.

I wish desperately that my h would get help, he has had a referral to see someone now for 6 weeks but has not yet made an appointment as far as I know.  It's hard to stay calm and patient and not push him to go.  But my pushing wont get him there any quicker and will only make things worse.

I hope this helps and I wish you all the best as you travel through this crisis, it's not easy and I know you want to help as much as I do, but all you can do to help is be supportive and encouraging of any decision he makes regarding therapy.  It is OK to want to help, you wouldn't be the loving caring person you seem to be if you didn't, we just need to love, care and help in different ways.

Take care

Ez xx

[Sassyone]

Therapy during an MLC is pretty much useless.  I didn't want to believe it in the beginning and encouraged H to go to IC and MC.  Which he did.  He never complained, BUT, he never told the truth either.  He never told the truth until his PA was discovered 6 months later.  The only good thing that came out of the therapy was that his psych kept telling him he was severely depressed and put him on Prozac.

Fast forward to reconnection process.  H's affair is brought to light by my S23 discovering him and OW.  (God works in mysterious ways.)  H moves out for four days to apartment and loses his job and ends up coming home.   Therapy, IC and MC continued, but now H made the decision to finally tell the truth and we virtually started from the begining and wasted 8 months of IC for each of us and 4 months of MC.  Lots of $$$ wasted on him (still is a great idea for LBS'er).

H today will tell me that when psych doctor told him he was depressed he, in his mind, was saying bull$hit.  He was manic like any other MLC'er and infatuated and self-medicated and he thought he was feeling good so how could he be depressed??  He really didn't think he was depressed until after his medication (which he started in May and then changed in July to prozac) started working.  So really he felt no different until July.

So, you can persuade him to therapy, but imho it is useless unless he wants to be honest and open and we know MLC'ers in replay are no where near ready to be truthful, let alone to themselves and a stranger.  If you can, get him to a psych for anti-depressants.  Even if he doesn't believe he is depressed, they can help.

I am so sorry you are experiencing this, but you found a safe place.  Post a lot, read a lot and most of all take care of yourself.

Hugs,

Sassy

[With Hope]

At this stage most MLCers use the OW/OM to counsel them through their despair and get the ego stroking they need. They use therapy at this stage to justify why they need to leave. They also take info  they like and need and discard the rest.

I completely agree with this as that is precisely what my H did in the ONE MC session he attended.  He used it as a justification session and basically used the therapist as a witness to him "breaking up" with me.  It was nuts.  Between that session and the next session, which I attended alone, I found out about OW.  I walked in and told the therapist and she said "I knew it from his behaviour in the last session"!  As often stated...they don't usually "move on" unless they have someone else waiting in the wings.  My H CLAIMS (likely lies) that he went to another therapist at some point earlier on and was told that "sometimes relationships just don't work out and marriages end"!  GREAT!  IF he even went to a therapist, obviously he found one who was willing to tell him exactly what he wanted to hear.  I so wish my H would get on depression meds as I have a strong feeling it would help him, but he's so flippin' "HAPPY" right now that he has no need to consider medication!

[limitless]

My H went to individual therapy immediately after BD.  He continues to go today - although it is sporadic.

His therapy - it seems to me - was just to justify/validate his desire to leave.  2.5 months after BD and going his counselor weekly - he walked out.  The counselor (it seems to me) helped to validate his feelings that his happiness was all that mattered.

At the time, I had hope that the fact that HE was willing to go to counseling and that he wanted to go - would help him move quicker through the tunnel.  21 months post BD - I must admit, in my H's situation, counseling did not help - which is pretty consistent with what others are sharing as well.

Limitless

[kikki]

His therapy - it seems to me - was just to justify/validate his desire to leave.  2.5 months after BD and going his counselor weekly - he walked out.  The counselor (it seems to me) helped to validate his feelings that his happiness was all that mattered.

I can clarify - that I sat with my H in his third therapy session at the anxiety disorders clinic, in the session where he said he was going to be selfish now, because he had always done everything to please everyone else all of his life ..........

The psychologist validated that thought for him, as I sat there with my jaw open ........  I can't remember what I said but it must have been confrontational because the psychologist then said to me ......... 'I can see that you two argue a great deal' (well only since BD LADY!)........ and then her piece de resistance was 'you must feel like it's them against me' (meaning the boys and I against him).

I remember walking out feeling oh so alone ..............  and my H just kept running, with a grin on his face at this stage ............
I knew nothing of MLC and thought the world had gone mad ...........

Now - 18mths later - I do realise she may have been doing all of that to 'make him feel safe' and to encourage him to keep going back , but he didn't and he had the justification that he felt he wanted for his search for 'happiness' ...........  unfortunately for him, it's not working so well ...........

[rediscover]

My H went to therapy once (alone) before he left, and a couple of times just after he left (w/me & w/our daughters).  D13 told H early on that unless he went to therapy with her she would not see him.  He didn't see her for almost 6 months.  It's 17 months since he left and he has been to three therapy sessions with her in 2012.  The first session he spent time telling Dr he was unhappy and he cried when I was brought up.  He admitted to being confused and not knowing what he should do.  Next session he spent almost the entire session arguing with the Dr and the rest of the session trying to figure out how he could start communicating with me.  Then he didn't go for a month.  Last session was all about H & OW.  D had lots of concerns and H's number one response to her questions was "No Comment" 

Therapy this year was H's idea.  He had even asked me to join.  I said no.  I said no because I am not interested in arguing with H about OW and my H is in no place to benefit from therapy.  The therapist knows this and I know this and our D knows this.  Therapy was H's reaction to me telling him he needed to start having his children visit his house every other weekend, because he wasn't being a father to his girls.

It's god for your H to hear someone's opinion about what they are doing, but honestly most therapists aren't going to get the truth or the full story from the MLCer.  In my H's case, the therapist knows all of us and has extensive knowledge of the situation (and of MLC & PTSD).  He also doesn't advocate divorce.
BTW, even wit D sitting in the room my H still lies to the therapist (and to D).  He would throw his own child under the bus to make himself look better- and he has.