[Anjae]

I don't know about the differences of this in men and women. I wonder how much it matters - at this stage mostly I'm trying to make an idea of how to live for the next 5 years or so. Maybe it is just me that feels this way, but it is mystical and deep - the past definitely matters in this ... People, songs, tv shows, places ...

I'm not sure if the difference between men and women in MLC really matters and if there is a big one. Both put an end to the marriage out of teh blue, both abandon spouse and children, both tend to get other person, both go back to regressive lifestyles, both try to individuate. Maybe the reason they do it is different… We all pretty much need to guess how to live for the next 5 years or so.

If MLC comes from childhood wounding and they regress to repeat their earlier mistakes, why are those mistakes all adult ones and not children ones? Children do not have OW/OM, children do not wipe bank accounts clean, children do not go clubbing/travelling (fit what suit your MLCer), children don’t abandon their kids and spouse (they have none). And some of us know our MLCers since they are teenagers and have never seen them doing the mistakes they are doing now. So, exactly what mistakes are they repeating?... I’ve never managed to get this part because, unless the mistakes are invisible and inner things we have no clue about, the mistakes they make while on MLC do not match the mistakes a child would do and often they also have not done them on their teens.

... But one day we'll be older and I wonder then, when I'm thousands of miles away from her, when she has no say at all in my life, when she remembers back - what rails we'll all be traveling on.

We all wonder this, I think...

[Dontgiveup]

If MLC comes from childhood wounding and they regress to repeat their earlier mistakes, why are those mistakes all adult ones and not children ones? Children do not have OW/OM, children do not wipe bank accounts clean, children do not go clubbing/travelling (fit what suit your MLCer), children don’t abandon their kids and spouse (they have none). And some of us know our MLCers since they are teenagers and have never seen them doing the mistakes they are doing now. So, exactly what mistakes are they repeating?... I’ve never managed to get this part because, unless the mistakes are invisible and inner things we have no clue about, the mistakes they make while on MLC do not match the mistakes a child would do and often they also have not done them on their teens.

What about the teenage years?  Some of the emotional damage may and probably does occur before the teenage years......but consider these examples from my situation and my friend's situation.

The OM that my friend's ex-wife married then divorced was her high school boyfriend.  She had literally not seen him in 20 years before divorcing my friend and marrying him.  She also tried to reconnect with her dad and get her dad to accept her new husband.

The OM in my case has the same first name as her high school boyfriend.....and her dad was not fond of him.....at all.

I have known mine since she was a teenager, which is why I know about the family issues and the high school boyfriend.  Mine also did not feel safe, protected or loved at home growing up.  I am very aware of these issues and they were things she talked to me about when we were dating.  I simply had no idea what would happen at midlife.  At the time she seemed to understand her issues and was able to cope with them.

They don't all wipe bank accounts clean.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

I am not trying to spread blasphemy in the air, however, I have been on this site for three years and I have yet to see or read about a female MLCer coming back to the marriage. I wanted to share research on this subject. The point is that there is not much difference because there is little research on the female perspective.

Men on the other hand have had a tremendous amount of research and the articles about men do reflect heavily of RCR's articles.

In general it seems that men's choice of life path that emphasizes competence and success offers them "an environment with reliable rewards which can be used to compensate for interpersonal deprivation" (Braverman and Paris, 1993, p. 651). When the career begins to lose its full compensatory power, as seems typical for men in midlife crisis, the men are left with their feelings of emptiness which have been covered up by work all this time.

Further research that men are addressing prior issues than women:

 Shek's (1996) findings seem to confirm the self-corrective nature of the midlife crisis for men: men in his study were more likely to report "problems with self" as a major ingredient of the midlife crisis then were women.

As you stated in your RCR's article:

The elements of the typically male midlife crisis experience seems rooted in early developmental issues and their social contexts.

Further examples:

A recent survey of Fortune 500 women executives (Morris, 1995) indicates that women who had previously become successful in business and subsequently identified themselves to be suffering a midlife crisis identified their experiences as analogous to those of men in similarly highly placed positions.

The male crisis seems to amount to a more past-focused assessment of the lifespan during which lifelong investments of time and energy (typically centered around career) are reconsidered, and concern emerges around making up for areas in which development seems incomplete (typically in affiliative or nurturing aspects of life). Although certainly influenced by social and cultural forces, the male crisis typically does not involve assessment of limitations imposed by (and sacrifices made for) others, but rather a re-evaluation of choices that the self has made during the passages of development.

However,

Inasmuch as it is possible to characterize these differences, the female midlife crisis appears to amount to the more difficult and intense of the two, and seems to be defined to greater extent by the actions and needs of others. The female crisis also appears to be characterized by a future-focused re-appraisal of the life course during which a more satisfactory role for the self is sought; this re-appraisal often seems to involve anxiety about inevitable death.

Note that BNW spouse has a picture of her father's grave.

What I am trying to state is that we need to build upon the literature and most of the articles written and describing male MLC and yet little is on the distinct differences of the female MLCer.

It is not to argue with the articles but to provide a different perspective.

Something to ponder

[Anjae]

Teenage years can be a possibility but agree with you, some (or maybe a lot) of the emotional damage can occur before teenage years.

I know mine since he is 17, and used to see in concerts and the movies since he was 16. Don’t recall any of his sweethearts to have OW1 or OW2 name… It is true that he used to play records at school garage parties but it was all a very low profile, quiet thing. No mad clubbing, no drinking till falling apart, no gang of dare devil mates. He was a quiet, more towards the introverted teen that liked French 19 century poetry and German expressionist cinema. OW1 and OW2 are not from his past.

Mine’s dad was not very nice with him if he would come home past midnight (this when he was on his late teens or a young adult). He would get slapped. Often FIL would not allow them (husband and SIL) to go out, so SIL would cry on demand and FIL let them go. There was also FIL OW, and husband had always been heartbroken about that and FIL philandering (that restarted when husband was still an unborn baby). I know he had troubles with this, he never hide from me. Many years latter, when we were already married, husband stopped talking with FIL because FIL had stopped phone husband at his birthday.

None of us had any idea what would happen at midlife. Mine also seemed to understand and deal the best he knew with his issues.

Ok, husband may be trying to sort out his issues regarding FIL and FIL OW and so on. But that is not repeating mistakes from the past. Also, as we know, they only make it worst by becoming the thing they fear the most, in husband’s case, his dad.

No, not all of them wipe bank accounts clean. Some do, some never stop providing for the LBS.

So far husband has not tried to reconnect with FIL, if anything he runs from him as much as he can. He is also running from MIL and SIL. And now has not only the past issues to solve but all the mess his crisis created. Not a nice thing to face.

[Thundarr]

Thank you KTF, Stronger and everyone for chiming in on a very interesting topic.  I think Ready is onto something and putting our heads together can only be a positive.  Or at least give us something to take up our time...

Very early (well, when I first realized something was really wrong) my W attempted to connect with her father who she had never had a relationship with.  He NEVER supported anything she did growing up and I think I'm the only guy she ever went out with that she even really introduced to him and that was because we had some things in common.  She would spend Sundays with him getting his parents' house ready to sell and then she apparently brought up the idea to him of moving into that house and remodelling it.  He reluctanctly went along and let her move in with very cheap rent provided she fixed it up accordingly.  That lasted about two months until she decided she hated it there and not only stiffed him on the rent but also took back all the things she had bought for it, even the floor vents which she cleaned off and returned as new.  He was really pissed at her for a while after that and their relationship seems to have returned to it's pre-crisis state, one where they co-exist until he gets angry and in turn makes her angry and she doesn't speak to him for 2 months.  It was really interesting how she was going out of her way to impress him early on but now doesn't seem to care one way or another.  She has also referred to lawyer boy and his W as parental figures but that was only once and not too long after BD.

[BraveNewWorld]

Ready,

I hear you - every day the 'live like she isn't coming back' becomes more real. The absolute truth, based on my last meeting with my wife, is that physically and spiritually, she has changed enormously. It feels like the woman I married died. She taught me a lot, whatever state she was in mentally when we were married. She improved me.

I haven't seen any female 'returns' on this site either - with the exception of DGUs friend. I believe if my wife did feel like returning, that a lot of our commonality has gone. She seems adrift to me.

With my upbringing as a Catholic, as the brother of a doctor, as a child of N.Ireland - I understand that life ends. I live as best I can, and without trying to be dramatic, I feel that a part if me died when my marriage ended, and my family broke up. My kids drive me on. I don't fear growing old, but for the thought of having to give up playing soccer.

I can't tell what my future has in store - I do believe that my wife's decisions are influenced by her past, terrible things that happened that have impact beyond my abilities to understand. Similar, I think to the impact abuse in the Catholic church has had to many people. I guess she is subconciously working to sort it out - you know maybe there is no other way to process it. And in her life, right now, that's her mission - it's a long calculation of an answer to a very difficult question. I'm not even a parameter. At best I'm something she put a pin in.

For me, my task is believing that I am not a freak, that I could be in a relationship with her, or someone again. That for some women ( most women? ) love is real, commitment is real. Care is genuine - a husband can be important to them. Family is everything.

I don't think there are formulas for returns - men or women. Whatever happens, I guess the unconditionals ( as you consistently demonstrate them ) are probably the key to healing all around. It's not at all easy.

Keep researching. As a software developer, I'd love to build an MLC database.

bnw

[calamity]

Like button: 

I don't think there are formulas for returns - men or women. Whatever happens, I guess the unconditionals ( as you consistently demonstrate them ) are probably the key to healing all around. It's not at all easy.

Thundarr - reading your wife's story [a page or so back now] I felt a lot of compassion for her.  From what she said, it seems that she does feel 'inadequate'.  It is not clear to me that she's in a PA either.  I would say she needs a lighthouse. 

Ready et al -  Without research it is difficult to draw conclusions about women mlcers returning BUT I would say there might be a huge difference between male & female LBS's.  Could male lbs's tend to be less patient    Or more independent? 

[Dontgiveup]

I haven't seen any female 'returns' on this site either - with the exception of DGUs friend. I believe if my wife did feel like returning, that a lot of our commonality has gone. She seems adrift to me.

This site is what, 2.75 years old?  There are few true return stories on the site as a whole.  Those where the MLC has moved home is showing the struggle that is reconnection.  One of the key articles to read over and over again is Midlife Crisis Takes Time.

BNW, your wife is adrift......she's in MLC.  Your commonalities can return, they are likely not in place while she is going through the identity crisis that is MLC.

[BraveNewWorld]

Somehow I would see it less of a 'return' - if ever we were to be in each others lives physically again - and by physically I mean just in the presence of each other. Not quite sure how to describe it. It would feel more like a conclusion or recognition to me. I'm rambling. Thanks for the dialogue. Night.

[Trustandlove]

A couple of posts back I think calamityj made a good point -- I think one of the reasons that fewer female MLCers "come back", at least anecdotally, is that the male LBSers are less likely to allow it -- men seem less likely (and this is just from me reading posts, it's not scientific) to be willing to forgive an affair, for example. 

One of my female friends who did this to her H now nearly 20 years ago said that her H divorced her pretty quickly, way before she had got through the process.  He also remarried pretty quickly.    The female MLCer that I currently know has an H who stood for quite a while, but now has a new relationship, and I have no idea if he'd have his W back, although he certainly would have for about 2 years.