[Rollercoasterider]

I split this off as a topic from Thunarr's story thread because I feel it's an important topic for it's own thread.
Ready: I love the stuff your reasearching and yesterday before there were so many more posts I copied your posts to a file I've started for this topic. I;ve been looking at the differences as they are showing in my survey. I actually have determined I need to add quite a bit to the survey, but so much needs special survey funtions--like another question being available only if the person gives a certain answer. And that sort of fancy stuff is not available for free. So I may just change the survey and it will sadly be more complicated--because there will be a lot of if you answered teh above question as...then, other wise write in NA. I wish there were an NA checkbox I could just add to certain questions. I also wish I could have a calendar for the date questions--everyone formats the dates differently and I have to manually correct them in excel to get things to work! And if I could jave a reject if the person doesn't meet the criteria (Bomb must have been a year ago for the survey to be valid) I could stop people from wasting their time by taking it too soon.
I'm still researching survey plugins and features, but most cost--and the cost is actually pretty high--one was $29.95/month and you didn't even get very many questions for that cost.

I want to ask some thorough custody and child-age at Bomb Dop questions--since one of the questions is about the children and which female MLCers stay home for at least a year after Bomb Drop and which become Close versus Distant Contacters.
Another I just thought if from reading this thread is an amployment question--career-track, steady non career-track, stay at home parent et al. I think the survey is more gender biased without those. And my research has been male-based.

[Bailmor]

RCR,

For your survey information, my company used Survey Monkey (www.surveymonkey.com) to do surveys and questions with multiple answers.  For some basic information that I gathered, this basic site is free to set up.  I'm not sure if this will help but I thought I would pass along that information. 

BTW, this topic is very much on my radar since my W is the MCLer and has been in MLC for about 18 to 20 months.  W definitely has issues from childhood or teenage years that she needs to come to grips with.   I would like to be part of this active topic since it hits close to home.

Bailmor

[Mac49]

I think Calamity made a great point.

From my perspective in this male dominated world quite often, although we cherished our wives, there was also a sense of owning, that the vows taken were a contract that needed to be fulfilled. So when our MLC'r takes up with the OM or OW that the sense changed to a violation of the terms. Understanding doesn't start until the attempt is made to enforce the contract, to "fix" things. The female MLC'r sees this as the same old behavior that things will never "change". The female LBS, from my prospective tries to understand first, without regard to fixing and in doing so remains ahead in "Paving the way" and allowing for a reconciliation/return whereas male LBS (Me) seek finality/closure.

Mac

[Doc Hudson]

I agree wholeheartedly that there are clear similarities regarding the genesis of their "crises" and how they manifest themselves.  At the same time, I agree that there are clear distinctions.  Ultimately, we are talking about people with severe psychological defects which kept them from growing up.  Sure, some "do the work" and grow up some as a result of their "crisis", but most don't.   Out of the hundreds of female MLC stories that I've heard, very few have even tried to reconcile.  And, worse yet, of those who tried, very few of the female MLCrs matured to that of an adult prior to trying.  In fact, I can only think of one that did.  So, roughly speaking, you have about a 0.3% chance of reconciling with a mature woman "post-crisis", IMO.  Bad news all around.  They just never grow up and they never will.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

One of the issues to consider when reading research is that often what is referred to MLC is more geared towards MLT. However, from our standpoint, MLC is a "crisis" and MLT is the transition phase.

Yet, certain themes are evident that sound out in both female MLT and MLC that are different than the male issues during MLT/MLC, This is from a study of LDS women describing their feelings the younger cohort are women interviewed at the ages of 35-44:

Additionally, the younger women appeared dissatisfied with life and were searching for more meaning. Kathy’s husband was absent a lot of the time because he was traveling on business. She felt imprisoned by the children.

This data also indicates a conflict over the needs of others versus their individual growth

The younger women experienced conflict in doing what others expected of them, or choosing to do what was best for them.

The study went on to state that all women were aware of their physical changes and that the changes were making them "less attractive".

The study does go on to state that the LDS women did not report the same confusion that has been reported in other surveys.

Once again, this is a study of MLT. However it does reinforce the identity conflict of the female spouse in putting the needs of children and spouse ahead of her own pursuits.

[Doc Hudson]

I also agree wholeheartedly that most mental helath clinicians are ignorant as to the differences between a transition and a crisis.  They just have no idea.  None.  And, as a result, they often make suggestions that do more harm than good. 

[Anjae]

I have not posted much in the past few days in regards to much because I have been reflecting on the difference between male and female MLCers. I don't think our female spouses are as much about "replay" than they are about finding themselves after years of facilitating the dreams of us and our children. Replay is more about making up for developmental achievements never made while the female seems to want to pursue things and ideas to meet their "needs".

Would say it is all Replay, just two different approaches’ to it. Males are also after finding themselves, even those that have to make up for development achievements. Often males don’t know who they are, they find themselves losts in marriage. At least that is what I sense from the stories here and also from my husband.

Without researching & going all 'thinky' I would say the female LBS's here could have a lot to contribute on this topic [new thread maybe?].  I know my journey [more like a bad trip ] very much resembles a female midlife crisis according to your sources.  The difference for me is that my crisis began with a bang [BD] & I was suddenly stripped of my identity as 'wife, partner, friend'.  Unwillingly I am looking at a new role or identity.  What & who am I without child or husband?  Or career for that matter.

It more or less happened the same thing to me but more regarding our creative joint projects = without career. The LBS “crisis” often starts with a BD. Not sure if female LBS are more patient than male LBS… most people with a spouse in MLC will divorce and that is it.

[Dontgiveup]

Sure, some "do the work" and grow up some as a result of their "crisis", but most don't.   Out of the hundreds of female MLC stories that I've heard, very few have even tried to reconcile.  And, worse yet, of those who tried, very few of the female MLCrs matured to that of an adult prior to trying.  In fact, I can only think of one that did.  So, roughly speaking, you have about a 0.3% chance of reconciling with a mature woman "post-crisis", IMO.  Bad news all around.  They just never grow up and they never will.

From RCR's blog

http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?p=111

[OldPilot]

But what do the statistics tell you about reasons? If it is true that only 10% return, why is that? How many of the 90% of couples who do not reconcile are due to the abandoned spouse choosing to not reconcile? How many are due to the MLCer’s fear that his spouse will say no? How many abandoned spouses do not Stand but kick’em to the curb immediately?

Thanks DGU - Here is what I think we should focus on, even if you dont kick them to the curb right away, are you going to do it before you get the chance to reconnect?

[Dontgiveup]

Yes, Old Pilot and here's something else from that blog to think about when numbers get thrown around like that.  Somebody, perhaps a newbie, will read that and get completely discouraged.  It's also about knowing your audience.

Reporting that 70 or 80% return, or that 90 or 95% do not return is not even about accuracy.

Your marriages will not end or rebuild based on statistics. If you get to rebuild, it will be based on the work you do Paving the Way–the Unconditionals: Grace, Forgiveness and Agape, the Releasers: Detachment, Letting-Go and Surrender; your Self Focus: peace, strength, hope versus expectation etc.