[readytofixmyselffirst]

I have not posted much in the past few days in regards to much because I have been reflecting on the difference between male and female MLCers. I don't think our female spouses are as much about "replay" than they are about finding themselves after years of facilitating the dreams of us and our children. Replay is more about making up for developmental achievements never made while the female seems to want to pursue things and ideas to meet their "needs".

Your w, mine, and several others seems to "disengage" first. This stage is removing themselves from friends and family. They look at the marriage as more of an obstacle than as a source of encouragement.

OM is a source of encouragement of individual identity and emotional support of the female MLCer that does not remind them of family and obligations of family. Instead the Om helps the female MLCer "feel" like they are independent and doing the things they have wanted to do all along.

It is all very rough ideas at this time, and I am trying to put things together to create stages that reflect their journey to wholeness and how we can support them during their crisis.

Something to ponder

RCR Note
I've just split this topic off from Thundarr's thread because I felt it is a great topic on it's own that needs some discussin and this way it can get it's own air time. I asked Thundarr for permission before splitting it.

[OldPilot]

I have not posted much in the past few days in regards to much because I have been reflecting on the difference between male and female MLCers. I don't think our female spouses are as much about "replay" than they are about finding themselves after years of facilitating the dreams of us and our children. Replay is more about making up for developmental achievements never made while the female seems to want to pursue things and ideas to meet their "needs".

Your w, mine, and several others seems to "disengage" first. This stage is removing themselves from friends and family. They look at the marriage as more of an obstacle than as a source of encouragement.

OM is a source of encouragement of individual identity and emotional support of the female MLCer that does not remind them of family and obligations of family. Instead the Om helps the female MLCer "feel" like they are independent and doing the things they have wanted to do all along.

It is all very rough ideas at this time, and I am trying to put things together to create stages that reflect their journey to wholeness and how we can support them during their crisis.

Something to ponder

Could also depend on what age of development that they have returned to for the replay.
Maybe women miss out on certain developmental things from their parents that are different that men.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

The evidence of many case studies and community surveys indicate that whether a woman directs most of her life to raising a family or towards cultivating a career, or even towards both, the midlife crisis characteristically prompts her to enter a new phase of self involvement that may typically include altruistic activities or the development of personal interests and hobbies (Barbanel, 1988). Such life choices reflect adaptive responses to the quandary posed by the event of midlife; many women feel adrift and directionless during this time. The painful ramifications of midlife losses for women is underscored by the fact that midlife is the time of most frequent suicides by (white) females across the entire life span; this high suicide rate seems most related to the pain and disorientation of interpersonal disconnectedness (Maris, 1995).

More of the same.....

There is also ample research evidence for the notion that marriage is often more an obstacle than an encouragement in the midlife development of women (see Shek, 1996; Roberts and Newton, 1987; Barbanel, 1988); typically the wife acts to facilitate the dreams of the husband (and children) rather than the other way around. In this way, the woman typically leads an affiliative life focused on the nurturance of the other people in her life at the expense of her own dreams (Gutmann, 1987); although it is also possible that women's life dreams typically include visions of leading such a life of support for others as well as a career, resulting in the so-called "split dream" (Roberts and Newton, 1987; see below). Shek (1996) reports that in addition to death anxiety, "problems related to others" (i.e., husband and family) seem to be leading contributors to midlife crisis formation.

The difference is subtle but still very distinct....

Barbanel notes that the midlife experience of women does not seem to fit the appropriate Eriksonian stage of psychosocial development of "generativity vs. stagnation;" typically women have been involved in generativity all their lives. There can thus be no refuge in taking a new interest in the family or other affiliative concerns as seems to be the hallmark of the "male" midlife crisis. Unlike the typical midlife crisis experience of their male counterparts, female midlifers do not seem to look longingly over their shoulders at connections not made and affiliative relationships not forged; they appear instead to look with some anxiety into the autumn years ahead and become interested in achieving the individuation they were never able to pursue before

This is opposed to male MLCers:

As noted by Gilligan (1982) in her criticism on Levinson's work, midlife research tended in the beginning to heavily represent the male point of view, almost to the exclusion of the female point of view. Popular images of the male midlife crisis abound in the public imagination and are characterized by images of sports cars and young mistresses (Braverman and Paris, 1993). Indeed, the popular culture image seems to describe middle aged men who are desperately trying to hold onto the youth they feel slipping away; thus they make gestures calculated to make them feel young again.

Recent midlife crisis research seems to suggest that the popular image is only half accurate. Men do seem to turn their attention to the life paths left behind them in the midst of the midlife crisis; however, this re-assesment of the past seems less related to regaining youth as it seems related to making up for developmental achievements never made.

Just trying to get more perspective and dialogue concerning the issues that we all face. Of course we are all human and not one model fits for all.

Thanks for the response and sorry for the hijack but Thundarr, your w seems to hit all the key points.

[calamity]

Without researching & going all 'thinky' I would say the female LBS's here could have a lot to contribute on this topic [new thread maybe?].  I know my journey [more like a bad trip ] very much resembles a female midlife crisis according to your sources.  The difference for me is that my crisis began with a bang [BD] & I was suddenly stripped of my identity as 'wife, partner, friend'.  Unwillingly I am looking at a new role or identity.  What & who am I without child or husband?  Or career for that matter.

[NoRegrets]

Good work, Ready! Thanks!

[Dontgiveup]

Barbanel notes that the midlife experience of women does not seem to fit the appropriate Eriksonian stage of psychosocial development of "generativity vs. stagnation;" typically women have been involved in generativity all their lives. There can thus be no refuge in taking a new interest in the family or other affiliative concerns as seems to be the hallmark of the "male" midlife crisis. Unlike the typical midlife crisis experience of their male counterparts, female midlifers do not seem to look longingly over their shoulders at connections not made and affiliative relationships not forged; they appear instead to look with some anxiety into the autumn years ahead and become interested in achieving the individuation they were never able to pursue before

My ex-wife and my friend's ex-wife have looked over their shoulders at connections and relationships that are at the core of their MLC.....in both cases it is the relationship with their fathers.  I think the term looking over their shoulder can better be said using the word regression, which is what makes a crisis different from a transition.

I don't think achievement is a difference between male and female MLCers.  I think achievement is a difference between a midlife transition (MLT) and a midlife crisis (MLC).

The information below is from RCR

MLCers feel as though they are losing or have lost something and so they turn around and walk backwards in time to find it. Non-crisis MLTers are looking for something too, but typically they realize it’s not something they have lost because they have not had it yet. If it is something they feel they had, they recognize that what they had can be beneficial for their future, but that doesn’t mean they want to bring the circumstances in which they originally had it with them—they understand that they can bring that little piece forward and apply it to the future.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

I am not arguing with you over "issues" be cause not all females nor will all males fit perfectly into the categories.

I am just offering research based suggestions that female MLCers are different than male MLCers and that trying to fit female MLCers into the stages that are researched and categorized by males and research on males may not be significant or helpful with females.

Another surprising note is that research and surveys show that females have more anxiety over the eventuality of death than males. I would have thought it different.

I have no suggestions either way. It has been what I have observed in my w, Thundarr's w, and OP's w and several other stories by the male LBSer that shows distinct and different thought processes behind the female crisis over the male crisis.

In fact the studies suggest the hormonal changes in the male during the later stages of life also lead to a "family" orientation. More apt to play with grandchildren, take up hobbies such as gardening, painting, and music all suggest the transition of the male through midlife is much different than the "crisis" that others face.

Like I said, I am just starting research and there is not much on the female perspective.

[kikki]

Another surprising note is that research and surveys show that females have more anxiety over the eventuality of death than males. I would have thought it different.

That's interesting Ready.  I wonder if this has to do with anxiety about leaving people that we are connected to??  I have no idea though ......

[BraveNewWorld]

My wife told me that after her parents split up when she was a teenager, her life felt 'derailed'. When her father died she felt that she coud get back on the rails again. That meant ditching me, communicating with her high school bf. I don't know if that s looking over her shoulder or not.

She spent this summer visiting friends from high school and university. How many 42 year old mothers do you know doing that? My kids slept in ~15 different beds between her travels and with me visiting my brothers. She has reimagined her family of origin - she told me it was all different now. I was never able to experience this 'different' family - I was only there to listen to the heartache caused by the family as was - before it was all better.

On her Facebook page one day I looked, there was a photo of her fathers grave. Her theme pucture. How many of your friends post photos of their fathers grave on FB? Not saying that it is wrong. It seems unusual, especially to me, knowing what I know of that family.

I feel even after this time that I know little of MLC. I know absolutely that our marriage ending was extremely abrupt - I know that detaching took us both years. She told me that she didn't know how or why she was leaving. It is still horrific for me to think back on it all.  I know that it doesn't add up - and it may never add up. But there is an element - a big one, of the past being revisited in my case.

I don't know about the differences of this in men and women. I wonder how much it matters - at this stage mostly I'm trying to make an idea of how to live for the next 5 years or so. Maybe it is just me that feels this way, but it is mystical and deep - the past definitely matters in this ... People, songs, tv shows, places ...

... But one day we'll be older and I wonder then, when I'm thousands of miles away from her, when she has no say at all in my life, when she remembers back - what rails we'll all be traveling on.

bnw

Ps - another note for your research, ready, my bomb drop was - 'I don't love you, I don't want to grow old with you'. Subtle, and caring.

[Dontgiveup]

My wife told me that after her parents split up when she was a teenager, her life felt 'derailed'. When her father died she felt that she coud get back on the rails again. That meant ditching me, communicating with her high school bf. I don't know if that s looking over her shoulder or not.

She spent this summer visiting friends from high school and university. How many 42 year old mothers do you know doing that? My kids slept in ~15 different beds between her travels and with me visiting my brothers. She has reimagined her family of origin - she told me it was all different now. I was never able to experience this 'different' family - I was only there to listen to the heartache caused by the family as was - before it was all better.

On her Facebook page one day I looked, there was a photo of her fathers grave. How many of your friends post photos of their fathers grave on FB? Not saying that it is wrong. It seems unusual, especially to me, knowing what I know of that family.

I feel even after this time that I know little of MLC. I know absolutely that our marriage ending was extremely abrupt - I know that detaching took us both years. She told me that she didn't know how or why she was leaving. It is still horrific for me to think back on it all.  I know that it doesn't add up - and it may never add up. But there is an element - a big one, of the past being revisited in my case.

I don't know about the differences of this in men and women. I wonder how much it matters - at this stage mostly I'm trying to make an idea of how to live for the next 5 years or so. Maybe it is just me that feels this way, but it is mystical and deep - the past definitely matters in this ... People, songs, tv shows, places ...

... But one day we'll be older and I wonder then, when I'm thousands of miles away from her, when she has no say at all in my life, when she remembers back - what rails we'll all be traveling on.

bnw

I would see little doubt that she is experiencing a regression.  Whether male or female, MLC is a regression.  It may matter from the perspective of LBS understanding and Acceptance.

From RCR's article Initiatory Experience
MLC is the result of significant wounding in childhood and at a person's initiatory experience and thus their return to the wounding is a regression wherein they choose to repeat their earlier mistakes in hopes of correcting them rather than applying their experience to make different choices.