[Anjae]

No it has not disappeared,, my son is just ADD and he is 25.
But their is a movement here to classify more people as ADHD.

I know there are people just with ADD but there really seems to be some pressure for ADHD to be the label. In my recent courses think the phrase "people with ADD or ADHD" only turned up once. The rest was all ADHD.

Unfortunately the person I used to know that had the most knowledge about this I no longer get to speak to.
You can guess who that is. 

Yes I can. 

[limitless]

I, personally, find this type of discussion really interesting and thought provoking.

I find myself nodding my head in agreement at some of the comments, and maybe shaking my head in a few.  But, what do I know?

I only know my situation.  My H did not go to MC.  He absolutely refused to go to MC at BD.  He sulked, like a child, and just would say "I don't want to!"  Although, he was "happy" to go to Individual counseling to see a therapist that whose name he claimed to have had in his pocket for about 1 year prior.

I now know that his refusal to go to MC was due to the fact he had already decided to divorce me.  He just wasn't able to tell me, yet.

The only thing that I know about his counseling sessions are what HE told me...so I must take them with a grain of salt.  His counselor asked him why he had married me.  Told him that he "took the path of least resistance" and agreed to the decisions of others (me??) when he married, bought his first home....etc., etc., etc.  Based on what he told me about their sessions, she counseled him out the door.  But, again, that is MY opinion.  He continued to see her for about 6 months or so after he ran away.  I would say "moved out" - but he never moved anything...so "ran away" seems a better description.

Do I think, due to my experience, that counseling doesn't help?  No.  I think that there are some that counseling could "help."  But, in my opinion, counseling can only help those who want the help and are willing and able to do the work necessary.  I don't think that most MLCers fit that bill.  And, I may surprise you (or not) when I say that there are some LBS' who also fit that same bill.

LBS who say that "it wasn't my fault" (I'm one of those, by the way) and make no attempt to make changes within themselves (I am not one of those, by the way) in many ways (in MY opinion) are avoiding, like their MLC spouses. 

Everyone has things within themselves that need improving.  I don't think that I am shocking anyone with that statement.  OP tells many of us that we have been given the "gift" of time.  (Thanks for that, by the way, OP .  It's that gift that keeps on giving.  But, for many of us, that is the truth. 

What we do with that time....is up to us.  Hopefully, we will spend it becoming better parents, friends, people.  I, personally, don't think that there is a darn thing that I could do (can do) to "help" my MLC spouse.  I believe that I was (in his mind) a know-it-all (never wrong) and that he would resent ANY attempt from me to "help" him.  Again, that is just my opinion.  I do know that he has stayed away from me for much of the 3 years since BD.  (Tomorrow is my 3 year BD anniversary, by the way).  I have only seen him twice this year.  His mother's funeral and his father's birthday.  I don't expect to see him any time soon.  We will soon be divorced. 

I did some validating, at first.  I was following the advice here and willing to try "anything" at the time.  I felt so lost and all I wanted was my husband back.  Looking back, I wouldn't validate again.  It's not that I thought it did any "damage" or that it helped in any way, either.  I see things differently now and I would not want to validate what I consider to be an untruth.  Regardless of what my H has said to me, or others - I was a good wife.  Very far from perfect, but a good wife.  I supported him.   I loved him.  I was true to him.  I certainly was a better wife than he was a husband.  (This is something he himself has said, several times, during his MLC).  I would choose, now, not to validate - as I do not wish to damage myself anymore than that has already been done.  And, to validate an untruth, is damaging to me.

Do I think that there are things that could have been done?  Sure.  Of course.  But, I do agree that, once IN MLC, there is little to nothing that can be done.

The MLCer is going to do what the MLCer wants to.  Period.  Find an OW, or two, or three.  Get divorced...or not.  Come back and forth (if a Clinger) - contact the LBS occasionally (or not) with silly messages or attempts to be kind (or not).  On another site, it is said that the MLCer will never completely go away, until he or she is pushing up daisies.  (I think those with Vanishers would disagree with this, by the way).  With my MLCer, I believe this will be true.  We have kids together.  There will be life events.  We will hear of each other.  We may even be in each other's presense.  For me...if this is it - I would prefer never to hear of him or see him again.  For me, I don't think this is possible.

I probably need more mirror work to find out why I am still angry (hurt??), whatever.  So, the comments that I make may appear to be tainted or disheartening to newbies.  (Sorry about that).  I will say that I still believe that most of these MLCers will get through their crisis.  I believe that most will regret what they have done.  (Even if they never acknowledge it to anyone).  I just think that it takes so much time.....and WE change.  We feel differently.  I think for many of us, this is "normal."

Don't know where I was going with all of that.  This debate has me thinking.  Quite honestly, I think we should all do whatever "works."  For many of us, the thing that "works" is for us to just let go...leave them to their crisis, and go on with our lives.  I don't think that curing anyone else's crisis is within my control.  Well, maybe my own - but that is still a challenge.

I hope that none of you leave the forum, delete your comments, or stop posting what you think.  We may not all agree - and there certainly are posts that I do not agree with - but I find value in much of it. 

I can't speak for every newbie....but I remember very much being a newbie on this site.  At the time, all I wanted to read about was reconciled marriages or MLCers who were returning or divorces that were cancelled.  If a thread or comment wasn't consistent with what I wanted to read - I dismissed it.  I was determined to be one of the LBS who had a reconciled marriage! 

In my situation, I have had to realize that a reconciled marriage takes TWO people who want it reconciled.  An MLCer in the throes of his/her crisis - has WAY TOO MUCH to deal with with his/her own issues.  He/she cannot work on their marriage, too.  In escape and avoid, he/she is not even dealing with their internal issues.  You can't do more for someone than he/she can do for him or herself. 

I guess I just have a lot of random thoughts.  No conclusion.  At least not at this point.

L

[Slow Fade]

 

I will say that I still believe that most of these MLCers will get through their crisis.  I believe that most will regret what they have done.  (Even if they never acknowledge it to anyone).  I just think that it takes so much time.....and WE change.  We feel differently.  I think for many of us, this is "normal."

I will agree with this. I think that it is inevitable that we change. Too much damage has been done for there not to be change.

I also hold onto hope. As someone who is always looking for a pony in their barn full of sh*t, I also do not think that divorce is necessarily the end. I've read of a lot of R's after divorce. It happens. But in the end I think it will be OUR choice how long we stand. That gives me strength and power. I'm not waiting, I'm choosing. There is a difference.