[kikki]

Not sure if you have read this NGUOU, but this is HeartsBlessing's 6 stages of MLC, with a general guideline of timeframes.  From post #7 if you scroll down on this thread.
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=4.0

[Thundarr]

I just realized this has been split off into two threads.  It seems I started a chain reaction here...

[Songanddance]

As a newbie BD March 2013 I can look back and pinpoint exactly when MLC started. It was when he decided to buy the first sailing boat and became dissatisfied and bought a larger boat which is still in the USA about 5/6 years ago. He attempted three times to sail back across the Atlantic over four years and each time had to turn back. I knew then but didn't take it that seriously thinking that the last time was the "stopping point" and he would return to normality. But last year on my 50th big bash - he was very difficult and remote not just to me but guests refusing photos etc... but gave in when my daughters nagged.  He also wanted gave up the other thing that he was exceptionally good at (music) stating that he should retire from performing as much as 5 years ago too! But the biggest point leading to the bomb drop is that he is the same age his dad was when he died right in front of him. He has already said that when that date is over (later this year) and he is still alive perhaps he can start living again. He has been incredibly fatalistic over the last 5/6 years ever he since he hit 50. It's such a pity and so frustrating that I failed to really understand his thinking. MLC is  a dis-ease and should be shouted about  as much as possible prevent other marriages  crumbling.... As a newbie - I do find some of the info re length of MLC especially replay worrying and wonder  if I can STAND  for that long but then I think that if I can put up with what he has thrown at me for the last five years without tactics then perhaps I can endure a little longer with tactics.

[Anjae]

Hi NotGivingUpOnU thank you for dropping by and telling your story. No, Evas never said MC, it was me, and I think DGU who explained that what we tend to tell newbies that MC does not work in MLC.

I'm glad your experience with therapy is positive. What you say about he had went on his own post BD has happened with other spouses here (and some MLCers even went before BD). Leaving therapy for a while also seems to happen a lot. Resume it after they return is also common. Sassy husband that has returned is also in therapy and things are working for the two of them as well.

However, what does not seem to happen, is that an MLCer will remain in therapy for the all of the crisis. From what you say your own husband stop going to therapy, after BD, for a certain amount of time and during the most part of the time he spend with OW.

That is the same we already knew. The way Evas was speaking it was sounding like you and your husband had been in therapy for the whole of his crisis and that therapy was working for him while in replay and away from you. After an MLCer returns therapy works (I wrote it several times on my posts in this discussion). So, what we tend to say, still stands, therapy does not work while and MLCer is in replay and MLCers often abandon therapy during the depth of the crisis.

Glad to know your therapist believes in crisis but it saddens me she refuses to call it a MLC. Yes, we already know there have to be issues even if I think the issues are for more of neurochemical and hormonal order than of emotional one. Or better, the latter alone would not cause a MLC. But I'm more inclined towards neuroscience and genetic than psychology.

I'm not so certain there has to be an underlying disorder. Personality disorders arrive in mid teens to early adulthood, they don't come up all of a sudden on a latter age (schizophrenia and epilepsy are different, they can come to be with a head bang or other situations) and most of us did not have MLCer with any previous disorder.

But we never say there is no way out. What you have just wrote confirms what we say, MLCers tend to abandon therapy when the crisis get worst and many resume it once they return. So far no one has reported of have an MLCer that remained in therapy during the whole of Replay or that therapy has reduced the crisis. Your husband went back to therapy after he returned, he was willing, it is working. Our advice was/is correct. 

I agree a person in crisis can benefit from therapy, but like you said, and we always say, the person has to be willing. Most of our MLCers aren't. Or not yet. What I was asking Evas how do you make someone who is not willing to get help only has one answer: you don't. 

She was warning me that I need to accept and detach and it has to be genuine as he’ll know I'm bluffing. And nothing worked until I did genuinely detach and stopped paying attention to a little dance he was doing.

Many of us here have done it, and it was genuine, but our spouses haven't yet returned. So that alone does not bring every MLCer back/out of the tunnel. I think it depends of the MLCer and the severity of their crisis.

One thing that freaked me out and that's why I don't post much, is that I was left under impression that ppl here don’t believe my reconnection and reconciliation counts as it’s out of the usual time frame. It turned me into MLC police officer who’s observing my H and waiting for him to take a hike any day. Although it’s 10 months since he expressed his wish to come home and nearly 7 months since we reconciled. He opened up and told me exactly how he felt while at the rock bottom.

You have to understand that your husband's crisis was, since BD, very short and mild compared with the ones of most our MLCers. It is natural that people who are used to see their MLCers come and go for years, or who have spouses in Replay for 3,4,5, 6 years find it a little peculiar your husband had returned so soon. Some MLCers may take a hike, some may not. Most MLCers take longer than your husband and many come and go. If you read through the threads you will see it on the stories.

And I know for sure his MLC didn’t started at BD, so I don’t think it’s fair to say that 2-7 years counts from the BD, which I’m almost 100% sure that I’ve read here on forum. My h was in MLC since at least 2009, if not 2007.Us LBSs feel it was the sudden change at BD, just cause of the shock we get, but if you start looking back you too will realize that’s not the case for the great majority of us. I did realize, even looking through the photos from 2010 (when I thought we were blissfully happy yet I was walking on eggshells) that he looked miserable.

MLC does not start at BD. That is very clear in RCR articles and blog posts. On average it starts 12-36 months before BD. On average an whole midlife crisis last 3-7 years. On average. So, if 3 is on the average, it is logical an MLCer crisis can start 12 months before BD, Replay last one year, and the last part of the crisis another.

But yes, here there is a tendency to count from BD. Mainly because of what you said, many times only in hidsight it is possible to realise when things have started for the MLCer. I always knew things started before BD for Mr J but I do not know the exact date. I tend to put the beginning of his crisis at the Summer of 2005.

Since we're nearly on the Summer of 2013 that was almost 8 years ago and he remains deep in Replay. Some crisis take longer than others.

[kikki]

But yes, here there is a tendency to count from BD.

We are counting the replay portion only though, when we do this.

[crazyjourney]

I wish I had known about mlc when my h first started with it.

My h first left with a bd september/november 2005, he was away from our home living in a flat for 9weeks I think he was a pure clinger but no known ow and I literally seduced him and wooed him home.

I thought the following years were fine but looking back I think he stayed in a kind of mild replay, we went on a lot of holidays and went to concerts, went out a lot doing things we both thought we hadnt done in a long time from when the children were young, generally having fun to re vamp our relationship, thinking it was stale and that was his problem.

He did once or twice say did I really say that after some of what happened the first time, but he would thank me profusely for letting him come home, a close friend of his died april 2009 and 2nd bd was January 2011 three days after his 50th birthday.

He said that he felt like he was in a tunnel and although he didnt regret coming home the last time he didnt think he should have.

Now that I know about mlc its almost like he subconsciously knows he has to go right through and nothing seems to be stopping him this time.

The thing is had we been able to be aware of mlc and looked at why it happened the first time, I wonder if he could have looked at his issues and sorted himself out without the full works of where he is now.

Evas and Notgivinguponu I wish you all the best in this I hope you can sort it and not end up back in it, I didnt even know about mlc until a while after 2nd bd, I can only think that the awareness is giving you that chance and the fact that you know your husbands need to face up to their inner demons, whereas I just continued merrilly thinking everything was fine.

It will be good for everyone if you can keep us updated, i really think everyone wants more happy endings but the fact that some people have thought things were turning around only for it to go bad again, makes people post warnings, nobody wants anyone hurt like mlc does to the lbs.

x

[toughtimes]

Anne my H is having therapy. He told me during mediation he is seeing a therapist to sort out how he feels about his parents divorce. He also had hypnotherapy to get him to fly in an aeroplane. This was a few months after he left, he was quite full on. Blamed me and his deep unhappiness in the r for never tackling his phobia.

So although he's in high energy replay, he's calmed down a lot lately, he has been having therapy. He said he would get therapy just before he left . It was part of us sorting out our problems in our marriage. He told me he was scared he would find out he was an a$$hole. I didn't know he was having an affair then. He left a few weeks later.

I think the therapy he is having is validating his decision to leave me. I have a feeling he sees his R with me as him getting together with someone who reminded him of his mother, kind of Freudian. He said before he left, his friend, and the latest guy he is trying to emulate, told him he should see a jungian therapist. I would imagine a jungian therapist would encourage the whole individuation process and promote individual happiness. It's sad that when a person talks about difficulties in a marriage the other partner is not able to have an input.

Nguoy thank you so much for sharing your experience. I would be really interested to hear more of what your therapist advised.

TT x

[wondering]

I have been reading all the various sides and decided to add what I have observed from my situation.

Brief summary BD 8/10, clinging boomerang, currently home rebuilding our marriage. As you can see my H was on the short end of the spectrum of timelines.  I can understand that one can feel hesitant to express that their relationship is progressing and that their spouse is farther along than is expected by others.  I too , did feel that from some on this board.  I'm sure some still believe my H will go to back to replay, leave again, etc.  But I think the point is, for me, that I'm the one living it. I'm not out to prove to anyone that we are healing together.  I journal it like many others to show what is happening to me.   I'm sure there are friends around us that might still have a strong opinion about us together after my H's affair.  That's OK.  I accept that...everyone has a right to their view.

 I never felt there were MLC rules, there were guidelines.  I never felt the advise given was too harsh, just opinions from many wonderful people going through the same thing with various degrees of crisis, personality types, etc.  As in any other situation in life, you take what advise suits you and discard the rest. I was told this many times on this forum. At times, some advise, I did not like, yet much of the warnings I received, actually came true.  Others didn't.  There really isn't any Rigidity...just spectrum of times and stages.  Not all LBS's will even see all the stages mentioned that the MLCer might go through.

What this site did was give me strength, a place to learn great coping and communication techniques to use with my MLCer and everyone else in my life, and vent my experiences.  This in turn, gave me a chance to keep the door open to the possibility of restoring my marriage.  The rest was out of my hands.  It took my H wanting to return.  I believe that you could take the same exact BD date, type of MLCer, do the same exact thing I did and you will get a different outcome each and everytime. It's human nature...we are all uniquely different.

[Trustandlove]

I agree that each situation is unique.

Evas, NGUOU, wondering, and all the others -- I am thrilled that your spouses have returned.  Really, truly.  And I don't have any words about it not being for real or anything like that.  I know other situations where it hasn't taken many many years as well.

Mine is taking years.  And he's not a clinger, although he has cycled back towards me between OWs.  Now it's very possible that he left very near the beginning of the situation; I wasn't walking on eggshells for years beforehand.  I can pinpoint the day when something snapped and he was very different.  And it wasn't even a year before BD. 

And mine has cycled and run and run again.  But that's him.  I can't control that.  RCR told me that what I was doing might well have worked wonders in another situation, but my H is who he is.  All I can do is live my own life and make it the best I can. 

I've done huge things since BD, including re-training, starting a new career, taking a couple of years to deal with my own fears, anxieties and low-level depression, and more.  The list goes on.  All good.

None of it MAKES my spouse want to return, but should he choose to do so, I'm a better person.  And a better mother to my children, who really are my priority right now.

I have an MLCer who is now again monstering at me, I'm much, much better equipped to deal with it than I was at the beginning when he was first doing it.  Actually, he's worse than at the beginning.  We had a long quiet period in the middle when i thought I could do something; perhaps by trying to do so I prolonged the process, I don't know.  We'll only ever know in hindsight.

I could blame myself (or indeed, congratulate myself) until the cows come home, but it is true that we have to go through it, there really isn't any way round.  And everyone's ''through'' is that bit different. 

Every single reconciled couple I've ever talked to or known of say the same thing as wondering does: it took the spouse wanting to come home.     

My H saw a therapist a couple of times, but he wasn't receptive.  Once he said that they just asked questions (he wasn't ready or willing to answer), the other time I think he went to try to convince the therapist of his POV.  In the future?  who knows. 

I do remember, though, back at the beginning (way before this forum, before I even found RCR's site, which may not even have existed then) that I had absolutely no idea that it could take a long time, and it would have been good if the therapist at the beginning had said that I should settle in for a long haul (I even had that idea myself) rather than telling me it would be over in 6 months.    It took me a long time, and talking to many LBS (in RL or online) for me to get the reality.  Would I have detached sooner if I had got it?  Again, who knows.  We each have to do this at our own pace.

What I do appreciate most, however, is the idea that moving forward does not have to mean getting a new partner right away, that it really means figuring out what is best for your life, and that of your children....  and truly getting me to understand the meaning of Standing. 

[Mitzpah]

My comment reflects what most have written. I feel that this site helps us realize that there is no same size fits all!

I am the ultimate optimist! I also believe that God gets the last say regardless

When all this started for me, I was lost, shattered and groping to find which way was up - the articles helped me make some sense of what was happening, they also gave me hope, which had somehow been displaced in the whirlwind bearing down on me.

Slowly, I learnt that I had to detach, respond rather than react, stop obsessing, stop leaning towards my h., extricate myself from my children's relationship with their father, and all the while without giving up hope...  it is still a work in progress - I now know that my hope is in the Lord and that all things work towards the good of those who love Him.

I still wonder why it is taking so long ::)but this site helps me see that timelines can be very different even if we take similar paths because really, it is not what we do or don't do that determines how long our spouses take in that tunnel of theirs. On the other hand, we need to find our own way regardless of the path our spouses are taking currently and this is where I have found this site to be so helpful.

Really, each case is unique and we do well to respect it. I feel that this site does exactly that!

I just wanted to say that one of the best pieces of advice from here is No Expectations!