[panda]

Regression, according to psychoanalyst Sigmund Freud, is a defense mechanism leading to the temporary or long-term reversion of the ego to an earlier stage of development rather than handling unacceptable impulses in a more adult way. The defense mechanism of regression, in psychoanalytic theory, occurs when an individual's personality reverts to an earlier stage of development, adopting more childish mannerisms.

 Jung had earlier argued that 'the patient's regressive tendency...is not just a relapse into infantilism, but an attempt to get at something necessary...the universal feeling of childhood innocence, the sense of security, of protection, of reciprocated love, of trust'

Jungians had however already warned that 'romantic regression meant a surrender to the non-rational side which had to be paid for by a sacrifice of the rational and individual side'

As my wife hit escape & avoid September 2011. (her birthday) she start to detach from world. After whole year in escape and avoid she hit EA preciously at her birthday again September 2012. At new year she ban me in bed. At February I ask her what happening to You ? And we start to talk about our marriage, that was bait... She said that our marriage is on low point, we can't go lower. And I catch the bait. Before we clash she was typical ANTIHERO. After clashes she REGRESS A LOT ! After fighting she become ACCOMMODATER. So, she blame self before clashes, after clashes she start to project blame on me.

And took almost 6 months to back on track. Regression is defense mechanism. She was so scared and anxious that was unbearable to watch... It was like I am SS officer in her eyes and she was little 6 year old Jewish girl in concentration camp. It was most frightening moment of my entire life !

Albatross,

Could you elaborate further on the point below? 

'And took almost 6 months to back on track. '

[Albatross]

Albatross,

Could you elaborate further on the point below? 

'And took almost 6 months to back on track. '

Sorry, my native is not English. In fact, I never learn English in the school. Means I learn it by my self, alone. So, I will try to put that sentence in different form. After we start talking about us and our marriage she regress very badly. And after I calm down and stop talking about her, about us and only live life, talking about everything else except about her and us she come back in present ego state. Means she is recovered from ego regression. She is now even better then before we clash. For that she need to be in calm not hostile environment which I provide for her. And that process take almost 6 months.

[panda]

Albatross,

Are you saying that just by taking the hostility out she started reconnecting with you?  Did your wife have an 'awakening' of any kind?

[Anjae]

Albatross, you know mine has been gone for 7 years (minus one month) don't you? And that in all those 7 years he has not returned to the person he was only become worse and more “lost” so to speak. And that I have been away from him for over 6 years, I moved back to our home town, and have not seen it in over 5.

I don't exactly see things the way many LBS see them and I also lean more towards the neurochemical point of view of MLC than of childhood issues/only psychological ones view. I do know about Freud and Jung, and others, theories. There is a bit of Jung I agree with but Jung was only looking at external signs, he was not looking into neurological or hormonal factors. Of course he did not had the technologies and knowledge we have today

Well, mine is not defensive. Or, from a certain point on, he become an attacker and only that. Why do I say this? Because of his 2 divorce court cases. Both were filled when I had long left and was out of his way. The second one was started early 2011. By early 2011 I had long detached and did not keep contact with him. His only aim is to attack, cause hurt and damage. So much that he refuses to deal. We are not talking about someone early on Replay but of someone who has been in Replay for nearly 8 years.

If he is frighten to death he only has himself and his long lasting Replay activities to blame. But I doubt he is frighten to death. He is just drunk, both literally and with “success”.

7 years down the road Detachment, Letting Go, Surrender and Acceptance have been more than used.  None of them changed a thing as far as Mr J crisis is concerned nor solving our legal situation, that is, getting me divorced. He always drags. And it is not funny nor it means he loves me or whatever, it just prevents me from remarry and have children.

After all this years there is no more waiting. Of course, if one wants, one can wait until the rest of our lives. For me Mr J is too lost and has been for too long in la la la land.

No, our marriage is, in fact, in our hands. If we don't want them back, no matter how much they may want to reconcile (if that is the case) there is no marriage. 

[Albatross]

Albatross,

Are you saying that just by taking the hostility out she started reconnecting with you?  Did your wife have an 'awakening' of any kind?

I did not notice any significant sign which I can call "awakening".  But she gradually come to clarity in safe home. Yea it take long time February - September. She is better and better every day. Sure cycling exists but she make progress gradually.

[Albatross]

Albatross, you know mine has been gone for 7 years (minus one month) don't you? And that in all those 7 years he has not returned to the person he was only become worse and more “lost” so to speak. And that I have been away from him for over 6 years, I moved back to our home town, and have not seen it in over 5.

I don't exactly see things the way many LBS see them and I also lean more towards the neurochemical point of view of MLC than of childhood issues/only psychological ones view. I do know about Freud and Jung, and others, theories. There is a bit of Jung I agree with but Jung was only looking at external signs, he was not looking into neurological or hormonal factors. Of course he did not had the technologies and knowledge we have today

Well, mine is not defensive. Or, from a certain point on, he become an attacker and only that. Why do I say this? Because of his 2 divorce court cases. Both were filled when I had long left and was out of his way. The second one was started early 2011. By early 2011 I had long detached and did not keep contact with him. His only aim is to attack, cause hurt and damage. So much that he refuses to deal. We are not talking about someone early on Replay but of someone who has been in Replay for nearly 8 years.

If he is frighten to death he only has himself and his long lasting Replay activities to blame. But I doubt he is frighten to death. He is just drunk, both literally and with “success”.

7 years down the road Detachment, Letting Go, Surrender and Acceptance have been more than used.  None of them changed a thing as far as Mr J crisis is concerned nor solving our legal situation, that is, getting me divorced. He always drags. And it is not funny nor it means he loves me or whatever, it just prevents me from remarry and have children.

After all this years there is no more waiting. Of course, if one wants, one can wait until the rest of our lives. For me Mr J is too lost and has been for too long in la la la land.

Awww. I am sorry to hear that.   

No, our marriage is, in fact, in our hands. If we don't want them back, no matter how much they may want to reconcile (if that is the case) there is no marriage.

Sure. But I assume that we as standers wanna to get back our spouses.

[PatienceGalore]

Just found your second thread, had been following the first avidly. I love the spiral picture, it makes sense. I agree with detachment and letting go. I'm just finally accepting this letting go stage, which is very frightening, as you are going into unchartered territory. But it can't be worse than feeling the way I felt in the last few months...I believe my H to be in replay, but bits of escape and avoid are there. I wonder at times if he is coming out of Replay, or is that too soon? BD was 31st December 2012, but in hindsight, there was a BD in October 2011, but I did not recognise it, as he did not actually say he had started an affair, he was talking about a new love, different life, but did not actually make any sense. technically, BD is now 2 years, so does that mean he is coming out of Replay, and towards end of tunnel? Is it Liminality, but I don't understand what that is exactly?

[Anjae]

Awww. I am sorry to hear that.   

It's Ok. Not all MLCers are done in 2-4 years and a selected few seem to never be done (or may take many, many years).

Sure. But I assume that we as standers wanna to get back our spouses.

From what I've observed in real life and here on the board up to a point. If the MLCer takes too many years and nothing changes the LBS move on. In the early times, yes, all LBS want their spouses back, with time that may change, and often changes.

[Albatross]

I believe my H to be in replay, but bits of escape and avoid are there. I wonder at times if he is coming out of Replay, or is that too soon? BD was 31st December 2012, but in hindsight, there was a BD in October 2011, but I did not recognise it, as he did not actually say he had started an affair, he was talking about a new love, different life, but did not actually make any sense. technically, BD is now 2 years, so does that mean he is coming out of Replay, and towards end of tunnel? Is it Liminality, but I don't understand what that is exactly?

Escape & Avoid = REPLAY.
2 years is average for REPLAY what I read on net. Could be longer, also shorter.
Liminality = Overt Depression begins when MLCer awake from REPLAY and dump OW/OM and go out of REPLAY.

[Snowdrop]

awake from REPLAY

What causes the awakening.  Is it just a natural progression?