[DaRealist]

You are VERY sure about this? It's not because she's involved with another man? ( if she is)

Very sure.  Her being with another man would actually make me want to run in the opposite direction as fast as I can.  I know about her fling and all the reactions that brought up inside of me.  I don't know how I would feel if she was actually in a relationship.  I hope and pray I can handle that with the dignity that some members of this board have.  I do know that would do the most damage to my stand.  Just being honest.  That's just something I hope I don't have to deal with.

[in it]

Boy I'll tell you what there's nothing that I've ever seen that devastates a man more than that.
 I don't know how they could even live with even the thought of someone else touching something that was once theirs or still is.

it's a primal territorial thing.

[DaRealist]

Boy I'll tell you what there's nothing that I've ever seen that devastates a man more than that.
 I don't know how they could even live with even the thought of someone else touching something that was once theirs or still is.

it's a primal territorial thing.

What helps me deal with my wife's fling is knowing that he did not have my wife.  He had an angry, rebellious, broken 16 year old girl lashing out at the world.  I read most of the texts.  It had nothing to do with him.  After the 2nd time, he actually asked her did she enjoy it.  That told me two things, 1)  he didn't represent and 2)  they did not communicate at all.  I mean, he didn't get the vibe from her physically and then didn't think to ask or at least beat around the bush while they were getting dressed.  No, he waited until they were both heading back to work to ask her that question. 

No, she did it as she told me "to prove a stupid point" and that she experimented...but didn't feel anything.  He didn't have my wife, he had her body.

[in it]

Holy crap!!

Sorry for laughing but you are one tough son of a b!tc# if you could read those texts and come away with such a spot on deduction of that situation.

WOW!! You know women believe me not just your wife. If this guy didn't know? He means NOTHING to her; Less than nothing actually.  

[Zendog]

it's a primal territorial thing.

For some, maybe most men, absolutely. For men with no confidence, probably devastating. But again, your W or anyone else in the world can only hurt you if you let them. Just choose not to let them.

Honestly I don't know how in the hell a mutually beneficial healthy relationship exists with out  SOME expectation.. I just got done saying this on my thread.

Absolutely. So long as everyone's on the same page and you're not guessing. All about communicating. I expect you to take the trash out. I expect you to listen and empathize. Things like that. Set some ground rules. That seems healthy.

Here's another thing about the mind reading thing I felt if I HAD TO TELL HIM it meant less for me if he would say or do something.

That's true. But that's a two-way street. Everyone loves to be surprised by something that someone else has done without them asking. Not exclusive to women on that one. I'd guess a fair amount of men like it as well.

It's hard when you realize something may have been wrong in hindsight. But put yourself in that position now. Would you have done ANYTHING DIFFERENT?

Maybe. I'd like to learn how to listen to the right things to listen to. But, I can only control so much. I can't change her childhood. I can't change her issues. Those are hers to solve. I would probably spend a lot more time empathizing than I would trying to help her solve them. That's my big takeaway right now.

[in it]

Your last response I want to address it this way.
Most woman don't understand the need men feel to "fix" things.

There's a problem..Men want to fix it. Nothing wrong with that but here's the thing,

We KNOW it can't be fixed WE JUST WANT YOU TO LISTEN AND EMPATHIZE and not have whatever it is be dismissed or downplayed etc...

Example:

Say she works and is totally pissed off about something at work..or even the kids. LISTEN. And eventually you might find she may solve her own problem by talking about it OUTLOUD.

Sometimes there's NOTHING to solve. She just wants to b!tc# about it and feel someone who cares is listening.

To me? there's just about nothing worse than being not listened to. It doesn't mean anyone has to do what I'm saying it's just nice to know I can say it and someone is listening.

Now what's been said above is IF the relationship is healthy. Not MLC.

[Zendog]

So I agree with you completely. Men do try too many times to fix things. I was sometimes better and sometimes worse than average. i always thought I was I was a good listener. Maybe I wasn't. If my confidence has taken a hit, it's there. That's where I'm putting some of my work in to get through this.

But as you say, it works if it's a health relationship.  So here was my situation. I would do some of the same. Complain about work, same thing she was, basically looking for someone to kind of empathize with my plight. About five years ago, she told me she was tired of hearing it.

So I spent about four years listening. Sometimes offering solutions. Mostly just listening. The things I tried to fix were mostly kid related, because our son had trouble and to me it was worth fixing. I wasn't fixing it for her. I was fixing it for him.

About a year ago, I finally came clean. I told her I hadn't been talking to her because she'd told me she didn't want to hear it. In the course of resolving the argument, she told me I could talk to her. When she did the BD, she threw it in my face, said I was always talking about work, I was obsessed with it and it had affected our M. 

All things considered, however, I do know I need to re-learn how to listen to see what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong.

[in it]

I think men tend to think they are doing something"wrong" most of the time.

 This comes from a womans resentment that she isn't getting what she needs so come hell or high water guys?... are you listening?

THERE WILL BE NO WAY YOU CAN DO ANYTHING RIGHT.

If she resents you FORGET IT. This rentment builds up over time.

Now if she told you she didn't want to hear about your work? There is something really really wrong with that. That should have been a red flag for you that something was the matter. ESPECIALLY IF SHE LISTENED BEFORE. That's when she started to pull away.

 That to me is what a woman does..wants to know how your day was that's how I connect emotionally. How did you sleep? Taking care of you when you are sick etc...

But for me it was never reciprocated! Never asked how MY day was.. How did I sleep.... I wanted the same things I asked him to be asked of me. This would show me he cared for me also!

So again we are talking about a healthy relationship and not mlc.

[in it]

http://www.caring.com/articles/5-things-men-fear-about-aging

Anything here anybody can see that might give any insight into how they are feeling? Or maybe even did before BD?

[Zendog]

Now if she told you she didn't want to hear about your work? There is something really really wrong with that. That should have been a red flag for you that something was the matter. ESPECIALLY IF SHE LISTENED BEFORE. That's when she started to pull away.

it was. But I knew she was stressed. We'd just had our D. She was going back to work. I suspected she questioned if she was going to be able to do this. I'm sure I could have been more supportive. I've grown as a dad, but I was NOT good in the beginning. And she criticized me for it. And I worked on it. But all those little resentments, yup, build up, and there is nothing you can do right. As I said before, one of her complaints in the last argument was that I didn't empty the water out of the toothbrush holder. Never mind I didn't use the toothbrush holder.

As far as that article, definitely No. 4 and 5. Wheels and memory. Memory much more so. Everything else on that list, as long as I've got my mind, I'm good.