[Trustandlove]

This is a quote from OP:

MLC'er are usually truth meters, if they say something and it stings
then that is something you should look at within yourself.

I thought it worthy of a separate thread -- we do get told that among the list of faults that the MLCer often presents us with are some legitimate complaints that we DO need to address. 

HB also talks of 'becoming the opposite' in her lessons thread; I think it's all part of the same package.

For my part, H said that "nothing he ever did was good enough" -- now I know this is to do with his depression, all that, but the kernel of truth in it is that I would find fault -- that among the 10 things he had done right I would find the one that was done wrong.  Those are my words, not his. 

It is something I recognise in myself.....   not pleasant, to be honest.  Of course I can get defensive and say that I was just crossing all the things that needed to be done off a list or what have you.

I think about that in relation to my children as well -- I have a feeling that I was always quick to find the fault rather than to praise the achievement. 

Now in my own defence I will say that this is something I began addressing already a long time ago, but there is always more to be done, particularly with H.  With the children I've already made great strides (as I get lots more time to practice....)

It is also true that in MLC even if I do change that completely it may take him ages to notice, or to process it, or to consider it a 'true' change.  It is very possible that every r talk, even if initiated by him, is seen by him as me still criticising. 

This isn't a complete story, there is lots more that can be said, but I think this is a topic worth addressing. 

[Still]

T&L,

This is a good thread.

My H's biggest complaint during "the speech" was that I didn't respect his profession. He is a health education professor. He really "wallked the walk" of his beliefs.

I, on the other hand, gained a tremendous amount of weight after my twins were born. I tried every diet plan made to man and was unsuccessful. As a defense mechanism, I decided to "mock" all diet programs and stated that they may work for some, but never for me. I used to insult my own physique in order to take the pressure off and to lighten the mood. I was my own worst enemy. My self-esteem was just shot and I was like the jolly obese person....inside of course I was miserable.

Anyway, when he told me how he felt, I was honestly not aware of how it made him feel. He was absolutely right. I was belittling his profession. It was not intentional as it was protection for myself, but the ripple effect to him must have been devastating.

A definite truth dart to me.

**Since then, I lost all the extra weight and feel amazing now. I workout nearly every day and clearly tell others the benefits. (Too little, too late...maybe.)

[OldPilot]

You just needed the LBS diet! 

It worked wonders.

Even though you didn't WANT to do it.

[Undaunted]

This IS a very good thread topic. Good thought, T&L.

OP -- nice one about the LBS diet. I'm down 12 pounds in 2 weeks. I won't need to re-up my membership in WW.

My H delivered 2 truth darts that come to mind immediately.

1. I don't respect him. While I always have respected him, I believe I know what he was saying. I have a way of interrupting people when they are talking, of finishing their sentences. With women, that can seem like a way of bonding to finish each other's sentences, like saying "I get exactly what you mean!" With my husband, it was the opposite. Also, since my husband had a history of unemployment and feeling sorry for himself, I took over most of the major decisions in our lives. That undermined his waning self-confidence. It wasn't a deliberate lack of respect, but I see how my actions did not help matters.

2. I crumble too easily. Yes, I do. I leaned on him for a lot of emotional support, to the point where he obviously couldn't take it anymore as his MLC raged out of control. A wife ought to be able to lean on her husband, I think, but she also needs to have a core of strength within herself that she can draw from. I need to discover that core. It's in there, I just haven't found it yet.

[Love being on higher grounds]

this is a great thread!

My husbands biggest truth dart was that he did/does everything that I wanted him to do, that he has nothing more to give...

you see my H worked very long, odd hours for years, being a truck driver...he was busting his butt so that I had all I needed and wanted...which was good to a point...

the truth in it is that he was killing himself to give to me and the girls...when all we (I) was really interested in was having some time with him, with the family...

I know he sees the changes, and the understanding that we now have of the whole situation...not sure if he truly feels it yet though...
hugs,
L

[Glimmer]

Hi

My H is/was the same. Works long hours. Has 2 full time jobs both very stressful and high profile locally. For the last 6 years every spare hour was spent studying for a degree in politics which he gained a 1st class honours in May 09.

Because of his work schedule it was agreed that I would stay home to look after the girls, leaving him free to fulfill his ambitions. For the last two years before he left, I had a number of health problems namely heart/diabetes, so just when he was expecting me to start looking for a job, I had nothing but hospital visits etc. So his biggest truth dart was the fact that I didn't contribute financially, even though I contributed by looking after home and family. For years we never had the time to do anything together as a family, as he would shut himself away and study late into the evening. Now that we do he would rather spend the time doing his own thing.  He has said he resented me for 'sponging' off him.

I can see how it must have made him feel, but I always told him I was proud of his achievements, and appreciated everything he did for us.

[tinydancer]

My husband is an extremely hard worker.  A workaholic if you will.  He says that he does it to support us in the style we like and that is somewhat true.  However, he also likes to work and says he finds it enjoyable.  Since MLC he resents having to work so much.  He says his body is wearing out and he only has maybe 20 good years left.

Truth darts he has flung at me:

1.   I spend too much money.  I am not conservative enough and don't try to save money.

2.   I only tried to change to please him, they are not true changes.(on this one I am damned if I do and damned if I don't.  I have tried to make some changes just for me but he still sees it as for him though I have told him when questioned that I am changing things because I want to, not for him.)

3.   I don't dicipline our daughter enough and let her get away with too much(she is the baby and we have two older sons, grown).

[HeartsBlessing]

Bear in mind, that even though what the MLC'er "spews" may be truth, they will use anything as justification for their bad behavior toward the LBS.

The changes you effect are for YOU, not the MLC'er.  In the end, it does NOT matter what they say or even what they do; or even if they "rewrite" history(and quite a few do it) as long as you know the whole truth; that's ALL that matters.

All of you know that as you scramble to change what they complain about, it doesn't matter; they will find something else to bring up and hit you in the face with it.

So, you simply look within yourself, and make these necessary changes within YOU.

The typical MLC'er is NOT going to like what they see; because it transforms you into a stranger...more or less, they get what they want(so they think), and it turns out they really DIDN'T want what they were "asking" for.

In effect, when you change yourself, you "take away" their justification for their bad behavior; and it can make them VERY angry.    I saw this happen within my own husband; he did NOT like what I became at first; it took away the very reason he was treating me so badly.

He tested the waters, I refused to budge; he tested me harder, I refused to budge; knowing that if he decided NOT to finally accept my changes, it was NO loss if he left.  I had determined that I was NOT going to be treated with any less than respect.

He eventually, "fell in line," accepting my changes AND my boundaries.

Doesn't matter how they react, anyway; GROWING is necessary; CHANGE is necessary, whether the MLC'er sees it, initially, or NOT.  Regardless of how they may react to these changes in time doesn't really matter...because you will have changed for YOURSELF.

It reminds me of "be careful what you ask for.....you just might get it!"

If you think about it; every one of us contains within us ALL of the components of the good and bad personalities within us.  We break down, during out self exploration, experiencing every facet of said personalities.

In time, we "repackage" ourselves; changing into someone else; someone unknown.  These changes not only affect the MLC'er, they also affect our children and the people around us.

For a time, we are UNKNOWN to everyone; until they figure out how to relate to us once again.


Just as the MLC'er disintegrates during Acceptance; the LBS does this same thing, during their journey of SELF AWARENESS.

The journeys of the MLC'er and LBS are VERY similar; but the lessons/growing/learning/disintegration/repackaging is the SAME, if you really think about it.

The only difference is the MLC'er's journey is much longer than the LBS'..and the LBS is well aware of what they are doing, whereas the MLC'er has taken a great many detours; and is stumbling in the dark, making many mistakes.

Even though my husband exited the tunnel while I was still within my journey of self awareness, I did NOT allow that to stop my journey; it continued on into the end....my own peace, however, didn't last long; I was already within my life's transition; and was unaware of it, until I had passed through this particular crucible, and finished it.

In many ways, I believe the Lord literally "forces" them along at times; this where the prayers of the LBS for the MLC'er come into play...yet, God still allows for free will; and acts accordingly as the MLC'er stumbles and falls down many times during their journey.


Think I hijacked; but this was coming out of my own memory as I was reading this thread.

[LettingGo]

Here's my two cents worth...

I have heard ALL of the above mentioned truth darts in one fashion or another, and they were all valid. No problem, as soon as I recognized my character defects I changed them easily. The issue is in RECOGNIZING the character defect.... and the truth is, my husband was unwilling to do what I am doing currently, which is to take a PERSONAL INVENTORY of ones faults, and ACCEPT the partners faults in a loving manner. One day this will be how we communicate with one another, but HB is correct, their journey will be longer simply because they refuse awareness.

[subooru]

Very helpful, dear friends.  My H did give me some truth darts.  I had taken things for granted.  I had all my dreams come true, and thought the world was just fine.  I always thought my H and I were on the same page.  It always "seemed" that way to me.  My H did rewrite history (and still is doing this).  I took this all so very hard, and my reactions were held against me (sometimes still are).  My H says if I hadn't been upset by his "I don't know if I love you" speech, then things wouldn't have gotten so bad.  Yes, I am sure that he believes that to be true.

I have learned a great deal about myself and continue to learn. I also realize that I cannot allow my H to erode my self esteem and self worth (and I allowed that for quite awhile).  I am by no means perfect,  but am not the "crazy b!tc#" my H has decided I am (not always, but that is his go to). The most difficult thing is when H would throw my mistakes or my weaknesses in my face.  He had been supportive at the time, but during his monster spew, he just tossed it all in my face.  OUCH!

We all learn, we all grow, and we are all so strong, resilient, loving and devoted. We wouldn't be where we are if we weren't. If nothing else, we must be proud that despite everything thrown at us by our spouses, we are still here, still standing, and remaining true to our vows. 

Love to everyone!