[panda]

What a great thread.....

I struggle with my /H's timeline because there have been a number of things that have happened to him over the years (some avoidable, some self inflicted etc).  I listed my first BD as Dec 2011 when he told me in a restaurant whilst we were having a family lunch that he did not want to be included in family weekend plans any longer.  He felt trapped and wanted his own space to browse shops and wanted freedom (ha ha ha...how naive I was)...........  Well, this bit of space ended up being a night out every weekend, and then some shopping on his own, camping trips, gadget buying, kitchen purchases, a new car because the existing one did not fit his lifestyle or image, and apparently it was time to live life the way he wanted to because he would wake up in 10 years time and either die or realise he had done 'nothing'.  He wanted to ignore the capital payment on the mortgage for a while and enjoy ourselves because it was the only time we had (I was totally taken in) All seemed to make sense at the time, he had an excuse for everything. His complaints about me got worse - silly really because I still did not know what was going on.
He has admitted he has been depressed 'for years' and I actually think he is right.  There was always something a bit off - in the beginning when we were together he was happy, everyones friend and I think he just became darker as the years went on.  I honestly think that S being born was a trigger, not because of S exactly but because I stopped working.  I think that had a lot to do with this whole thing.  He felt burdened by the financial responsibility.  But I can also see odd events back to 2003 and he was always very different after a few drinks......what is it they say about alcohol and the shadow?  So was this just 'him', depression or MLC?  I really cannot tell when this whole thing started. 

All I can say is in the last few months, when monster has not made an appearance, there has been a totally different personality appear, one that I had not see before.  Where my H is in this process, I really do not know.  H has been in replay for over 2 years now.  I would like to think he may be approaching the tail end of it, but I know thats wishful thinking!

[Jackolar12]

I think there are more clues about when it all began when the mlcer starts showing overt depression but there are clues in replay, too.
Listen to the things they say, what they allude to when they monster and project, and in their actions and innactions during replay. Not just with you but with everyone else and themselves.
I pinpoint the start of my h back to 7 years ago when his stepfather died.
It was slowly simmering, in fact, he was so cold and indifferent to the Oger's death, at thevtime I thought: yes! We can now move on....
How wrong was I. But my h is an introvert and passive aggressive.
2006 was also the time where my agoraphobia was at its worse, our daughter started high school, her period and was a very confused little girl about her sexuality. Bless her, she thought she was a lesbian.
She isn't by the way.
2006 was also the time his mother came back on the scene and thus bringing the nasty past back to life.
From then until 2009 I can not pinpoint anything major, although 2009 was when I crept out of my agoraphobia and regained confidence in myself, freedom and lust for life.
Ah, just remembered: h started his own construction business with his druggy buddy. It didn't work too well. It was doing Ok, but not good enough for my h and his buddy who then had unrealistic ambitions.
Druggy buddy pulls out and starts his own windows business, leaving h behind, and reaping all the rewards of what my h had taught him. Druggy buddy was pretty much his apprentice before that.
2010: symptoms of mlc start to show. I can feel something isn't right but I put it down to life stresses. H buys a brandnew VW sports van, gorgeous vehicle h said: I work hard, I want something to show for it  and I deserve it. I validated and saix: yes, you do!
March:2010, we go onto a new business, ran by me in support so that h could carry on with his day job.
Business was doing good, then h has a fall out with our associates and bam! Business pulled from under our feet.
I was devastated, I had worked hard to set it all up and yes, h, felt guilty for the loss and he should as he actuality double crossed our associates. Greed!
His greed grew and grew. He started to resent the kids, saying that whdn he was 16 he had left home and was autonomous (yesh, you were and look where that got you today, autonomous without choice and parental support). Why should our kids want that or why should we as their parents?!!!!! H, I am guessing, felt he was dealt an unfaircdeal and as he coped with it (ish) everybody should experience it. Whatever. Kids and I humoured him, although the kids now tell me they hated him for suggesting they should leave.
2011: D then just turned 16 and was self harming. We found out through school. She was bullied. I took over because h was a bot useless, D went through counselling and we closed that door.
No problems with her since but massive trigger for h.
His physical mlc symptoms start to show: bad stomach, loss of appetite, bad indigestion, insomnia, fractured sleep, anxiety, anger, night sweats etc....I am getting the blame:it's you waking me up in tne night, it must be you!
Then, anything I cooked was making him ill, so I try and try to fix that, but anything I did or said was wrong.
I am still oblivious to his mlc and just carry on.
I go out more, to gal and to give him space. If I stayed he withdrew, if I went out , he withdrew. I now feel he was setting me up for failure.
Of course by then, my a ctions were seen as needy and clingy.
2012: replay begins
He goes off to Amsterdam with druggy buddy, then Canada on his own.
Both places he had fond memories off.....without me there. Back to age 16_19.
I get a nasty blast of his tongue after I joked about him and prostitutes in Amsterdam, he says: you should be gkad I don't on you, so and so does it all the time to his wife AND she's beautiful.

Ouch!
 I brushed it off. Then true withdraw came, I grew more and more desperate to get through him, without being aware of it and october 2012 I get:
Don't love you anymore
Don't fancy you amymore
You do everything for me
I need my own space
We can still be friends, we have to.

I convince him to give it another shot, he agrees because :he still have feelings for me.
2 weeks later, I realise he's not into it all and he tells me that he has no feelings for me whatsoever and he only slept with me because the sex was good. Manipulation, I was desperate and aiming to please, and he knew it! Treated me like a wh*re basically,

After that he clang and clang until oct 2013 when I put a stop to the clinging/cake eating madness. 2 weeks ago he turns it against me and tries to make it sound like it was his idea. Control freak!

Now, he's bought all the mlc toys and accessories. They bring him joy but shortly.
He's moved 4 times, none of the locations are permanent or even his.

Anyway, it is not until you some crazy behaviour that you can see it for mlc.


And don't confuse triggers for causes. Triggers awaken the bad feelings already firmly planted but dormant. That's when the $hit hits the fan and we get the blame for making him them 'feel that way' and we get the blame, sometimes, for jyst being present at the times.

Look into theor FOo issues because I think that most of the time that is were the patterns and blue prints of their replay lay. They feel pushed to act upon those awakened feelings.
Everything becomes about their feelings and emotions.

My h doesn't really want to let me go, I know that now after 2 weeks of crying over freshly dropped bd 2: I never want to see or heae from you ever again.
I had kade complaints you see, and that, I'm sure, poked the freshly awakened feelings of failure and rejection in him.

With my h, it's all about the Foo,

hi Booboo thanks for the input and your perspective on the Foo issues simmering away for years,I wonder if any one else has a Mlcer with this type of background.
Regards
Jackolar

[An angels daughter]

My H FOO is very much a blueprint for how he behaving now.  His dad went out every night after dinner with the family, to the Italian club, out with the guys, on dates, etc...left my MIL home every night with the two kids. He didn't provide much money for the family either.  As long as his selfish needs were met that's all that mattered.  My h said he was never going to be like his dad...soooo he's a workhorse...unbeatable work ethic...oh and lies and has cheated like his dad.  So basically, he is his dad except he provides for us and prides himself on the fact that he takes care of his wife and kids.   No one can say he's like his father...uhhhhh ok....So my h is basically doing the same thing only he moved out to do it...FOO almost identical.
AS far as BD, I was thinking from what I have read and what seems to be what most people are saying is that BD is the beginning of replay or shortly into replay. So I thought when I heard those words in June ILYBINILWY, etc that that was BD.  But, I mentioned in my story that my H had cheated about 3 years ago and got away with it until I found out; by then it was over and done.  Someone suggested that maybe that was BD?? and it went unresolved and this new BD is just a continuation? So, what exactly is bomb drop? I have read the articles posted here and they are very helpful.. but it is a bit confusing.
If a one time mistake is just a cheating  is it possible that this new BD/OW thing is the real BD for MLC?  Can you have both? FOO plays into both but which one is the BD that leads to MLC? I'm either 4 years in or 6 months   I'm wondering if anyone else has this type of situation...and knowing what constitutes BD is helpful in the timeline..     I love reading everyone's thoughts and advice, makes me feel not so alone....

[Jackolar12]

My H FOO is very much a blueprint for how he behaving now.  His dad went out every night after dinner with the family, to the Italian club, out with the guys, on dates, etc...left my MIL home every night with the two kids. He didn't provide much money for the family either.  As long as his selfish needs were met that's all that mattered.  My h said he was never going to be like his dad...soooo he's a workhorse...unbeatable work ethic...oh and lies and has cheated like his dad.  So basically, he is his dad except he provides for us and prides himself on the fact that he takes care of his wife and kids.   No one can say he's like his father...uhhhhh ok....So my h is basically doing the same thing only he moved out to do it...FOO almost identical.
AS far as BD, I was thinking from what I have read and what seems to be what most people are saying is that BD is the beginning of replay or shortly into replay. So I thought when I heard those words in June ILYBINILWY, etc that that was BD.  But, I mentioned in my story that my H had cheated about 3 years ago and got away with it until I found out; by then it was over and done.  Someone suggested that maybe that was BD?? and it went unresolved and this new BD is just a continuation? So, what exactly is bomb drop? I have read the articles posted here and they are very helpful.. but it is a bit confusing.
If a one time mistake is just a cheating  is it possible that this new BD/OW thing is the real BD for MLC?  Can you have both? FOO plays into both but which one is the BD that leads to MLC? I'm either 4 years in or 6 months   I'm wondering if anyone else has this type of situation...and knowing what constitutes BD is helpful in the timeline..     I love reading everyone's thoughts and advice, makes me feel not so alone....

Hi An Angels Daughter my ex dropped the bomb and vanished,I think she must have committed adultery multiple times and enjoyed the hormone rush and stewed on her building resentment of me until she dropped the bomb and went and I would say she was comfortable with her decision ,she is self employed and had her liaisons during the day and her staff who all knew about her antics covered for her,her main colleague was my nephews partner (family)I asked her 6 months prior to BD what was wrong with the ex as she looked stressed and has always confided in her and she said she did not know,we had changed business premise 6 months prior so I just put it down to settling in stress.
When I found out about the colleagues covering up I asked my nephew why she did it and he said out of loyalty for my ex and I said what about loyalty to family(no answer given)he and his partner know more and they are keeping it from me and are not turning up for family events(feel uncomfortable)and don't keep eye contact with me(guilt) so I guesstimate two years prior to bomb drop for my Ex's stewing stage I wish I could be more accurate in the timeline,thank you for contributing and take care.
Regards
Jackolar

[Lanzo]

Hi Angel,

I had a long period of escape and avoid from W (about 18 months) at the start of this period I got a torrent of monster abuse which included her saying if she needed to go outside the M for sex she would.  Well when W got really distant from me I snooped and discovered a PA which had just started. I busted it. We agreed to reconcile, but W continued it as EA. Later when things were going bad I got the ILYBNILWY speech and the PA restarted and ran its course. We tried again to reconcile but her heart was never in, all that over a period of about 5 years

We’ve got to a point now where she has filed for a D, has been running with OM#2 for 9 months I think this gave her the courage to file (she always stopped short before) but that has now ended and she just wants a D (oh and all my money).

For me I don’t know the exact definition of the BD, but W seemed to have dropped a few them on me and then  backed off.  I’m in the situation where I would say she is in her second round of replay ie separation, escape & avoid then replay. The first one she was dumped by an OM she ran back to me. This second time she is determined to push ahead with the D and make it on her own (once she finds her identity).

Oh if all the above didn’t make sense, the point I’m making is a PA can happen and carry on before they drop the ILYBNILWY speech on you.

Lanzo

[Jackolar12]

Hi Lanzo your right,they have already started their new life before bomb drop and have been secretly doing this for years in Mlc. My ex used my daughters phone to say I'm gonna make it on my own(script) and she wanted all my money of which she got 50% split!she was furious over this as she wanted it all.
They run around starting in and out of affairs which last a few months or years having fun they say,who knows in their Mlc mind they are,I wonder if there are types that never drop out of Mlc and continue till they die?
It would be nice to have some feed back from mlcers male and female on their experiences and how they tried to repair the damaged caused afterwards.
Regards
Jackolar

[Braincell77]

W mother died june 10 at only 53 just 6 weeks after birth of D3 and I can now look at April 2012 as BD1 which was completely out the blue but this only lasted a week or so then we had a year of absolute bliss. April 13 she started to distance again. There was no PA as I was she just did not have time. I can not rule out EA though. She had a terrible upbringing with abusive dad and mother who leaned on her for support. Then at 18 we had D15. She never really had teenage years. So I am looking at possibly 20 months in and 6 months of replay. Thing is you never know when liminality may start. It could be tomorrow and that is both hopeful yet painful due to the uncertainty.

My W is being very nasty as I am NC at present and is witholding the children now as I will not respond to her. I will not be blackmailed though. She needs to learn she can not control other people. I am prepared to suffer the pain if it helps her get out of this mess and I hope she appreciates this one day.

[Jackolar12]

Hi Braincell
I believe my ex was a couple of years build up and two years replay and still going strong,when she was younger she had plenty of fun as she was good looking then but 30years on she is dressing like she used to look in her teens,she poisoned my daughters against me and I'm making inroads this year to reconnect as they helped her cover her affairs up but I want them in my life regardless.
I would think about another two years for laminality when it comes and then rebirth and integration so probably about 6 years after the bomb so who knows and we live in hope and they may be different people that still don't want us.
Regards
Jackolar12

[Braincell77]

Truth is Jacko I do not want her right now so in a way I am glad she is being so nasty. I think that my W is guilty and knows her behaviour is a disgrace. This can only help push her towards rock bottom as far as my understanding of the process.

It sounds strange but I think it will be of benefit not seeing the kids for a while. Everytime I have them I hear a new revolation which just sets me back. I know short term it will be nasty for the children but truth is the whole MLC process is hell for the kids. The sooner it is over the better but now I have a chance to truly detach and when she caves in and allows me access I hope to be rock solid and strong.

I know that my D3 will be pining for me and it hurts but this will also add to W reality check of how bad her behaviour is. This may initially push her further into replay but with NC I will be unaware. I would rather her be an angry high energy replayer than a content wallower with no obvious problems from her behaviour.

She wants contact for both security and someone to project on to. F#ck her with all due respect! She can project against OM.  I am not here to be her punch bag.

I informed her whilst setting the boundary that I believed in her and I will be here to talk when she starts behaving appropriately. Thats the last nice paving stone she will get if me. From now on its about respect and her realising its her causing problems in her life.

I love my kids more than life itself but pandering to her mums demands will not help W or the kids. She needs tough love now and I am one tough SOB!!

[Lanzo]

Hi Jockolar,

My W used to go out with her BFF soon after we got married and they would act as single ladies chat and flirt with guys however the BFF would cheat on her marriage(she’s not in MLC) but W would stop short, obviously these nights out would stir something in W as she would come home and wake me up for sex. One of the feelings I had back then was W would never cheat but she wanted to be (like) her BFF.

Fast forward to where we are today, W has cut off her BFF and I believe she is trying on the BFF persona for size. OM#2 is my sitch is a former  F buddie of BFF, and I know other potential OM in W phone book were met through BFF.

Oh, last point on BFF, she had a chosen lifestyle and I know her reasons for cheating on her M  but she did become a good friend of mine and she was a strong advocate of W staying in the M, I think this is another reason why W has cut her off.

Lanzo