[FlutterBy]

I believe my Hs MLC started in 2010-11, BD was 9/2013.  I was depressed, he couldn't deal with it any longer and couldn't stand the fact that he couldn't help me get better.  So, he started running away for work in 2010.  He moved us into our "dream house," did some work on it and then immediately started traveling all the time for work.  I think he thought he could buy me the house I wanted, get it semi-fixed up, then just go do what he wanted and I would be happy.  He has been laying the groundwork for leaving for years.  I don't believe it was done consciously, but nevertheless...

FOO issues: parents D when H was 4, father was abusing mom and putting baby brother in danger (I think).  Mom got help from her in laws to get back on her feet and get an education.  They lived in poverty for at least part of the time, though, because mom was "too proud" to ask for more help from in laws.  Living in poverty had a profound effect on my H and the way he approaches work and life.  He is a workaholic now and will probably work himself to death and wishes he had more hours in each day.

So, I think my Hs ultimate goal is to provide for my D in a worldly way.  She has never wanted for anything.  She is also spoiled to the max by Hs mom (trying to make up for lack of money during her own kids' childhood??)  He tried to do the same for me, but it wasn't enough because what I wanted was his love, emotional support, and companionship.  He gradually withdrew those things over the last years because I "drove him to it."

[summer90]

Hi Jackolar,

In response to your question about the FOO issues, my MLC H has lots of unresolved anger from his childhood, mainly related to not being heard, left out, not being loved etc. 

At first, just after BD, I organised for H to see a psychologist as I believed he was quite mentally ill.  I thought this because of all the "we shouldn't have married"  "we don't get on" "we have nothing in common" "the children would be happier visiting us in separate households, it would be more fun for them"  and his manic behaviour in other areas as well as his depression and the crying episodes along with all the stuff he was saying was just not true and never had been.

The psychologist, who luckily has many MLC clients, cited his childhood issues as the main reason for his MLC.  She said that many men (and women) who come from strict households, had high expectations placed on them and felt generally unloved and unwanted were more likely to have a MLC then people from "normal" households.  She also says that if the FOO have co-dependency issues, this is also a catalyst.

The psychologist has begun working on his self esteem and anxiety first (drug free) and when he is feeling more in control, will start on his inner child.  She believes this will give him all the tools he needs for healing.

I can say that this approach seems to be working very well as his depression seems a lot better than at BD - which was three months ago and he is using meditation and reading lots of self-help books the psychologist recommends.

I know many people don't think therapy of any kind works for MLC people, but I think it's all in the approach and has a lot to do with the personality of each individual - some being more receptive to therapy than others.  At the moment, my H does seem to benefit from the sessions and does say he feels better after seeing her.  It's still possible he's using her as an aid to escape his family(us) with thoughts like "If I'm a better man, women will want me" behind it all, time will tell on this front but he's happy with the results so far.

Hope this helps with the discussion.

[dadspearl]

Interesting thread.
I definitely saw signs of withdrawal and emotional unavailability as well as increasing unhappiness with everything and everyone around with my H for about 2 years prior to BD. My BD was initiated by me, demanding to know what the heck was going on with him! (BD Mar 2013)

Prior to BD, I had caught him texting a girl he met in Vegas. This was after I had spoken with him about a girl that was treading too close to my turf with him. After BD, I learned this girl had been his apparent first EA/PA, all occurring before my BD.

I am like a lot of others in that I get some comfort from a "timeline" or stages. Obviously my H is in replay. He's a low energy wallower even though he is on OW 2 (unsure of nature of R presently). I see lots of pity, lots of tears and lots of depression, but no action to change. And so...I stand. Very reluctantly some days.

[Jackolar12]

Hi Jockolar,
We are now just into 2014 and I am involved in a protracted D with W  but let me throw some so time lines out at you (this is a concise version of my time lines)
1993: W and I met (we had really fun times together)
1995: W and I got engaged we had good times but we always seemed to have little fallouts where either of us sulked for weeks.
1997:Married we argued on our honeymoon
1998 W walked out on me  and went to her mothers, however we got back together when I agree to sell my house and buy one with W.
2001: We have D12, very bad pregnancy we nearly lost both of them. When W better and D12 at home, out of the blue I get a venomus spew from W which shock me to the core, it was so abusive towards me and my family that I had to write down every word she said because I knew its significance would be explained in future years. This was the first appearance of monster but it disappeared and was not seen again for a few years.
2004: W screamed at me this marriage is over and we had a long period  of no talking.
2005: I discovered PA just as it started, it carried on through 2006 as EA even though we tried to reconsile.
2007: ILYBNILWY The EA went back to PA continued but ends.   W attempts to reconcile. Also dis cover a PA ongoing since 1999 “someone she talked to about our marriage problems”.
2009: I tell W F off I’ve had enough but she begs me to stay in the M.
2010: We are still together but  FIL sick with Cancer, my mother suffering with diabetes and heart failure, no time for us to look at our problems.
2011: Both parents die, I discover W still in contact OM from 2005 so I tell her its over. W first begs me to stay then wants to D but does nothing about it.
2013: W involved with OM#2 and files for a D. OM bins W after 9 months.
2014: D ongoing and W trying to screw me for every penny I have.   

see if you can pick a BD out of all that.

Lanzo

hi Lanzo man you have had a real roller coaster ride,I would say mini bomb drop one in  1998, mini bomb two in 2005 and bomb drop proper in 2007, what type is she a vanisher? And any sign of replay ending ? Take care of yourself Lanzo.
Regards
Jackolar

[Thundarr]

Lanzo - wow.  Talk about being put through the wringer!  An ongoing PA for 9 years?!?  Do you think this is MLC or just indicative of a character flaw in your W?

[Lanzo]

Hi Jackolar,

Yep its been a real rollercoaster with STBXW, I honestly don’t know what she is looking for in life but whatever it is it doesn’t include me. I agree 2007 was the real BD, at that point her one night stand with OM#1 was an EA but once the bomb was dropped it went physical again. When that ended she wanted to work on the M but it never felt right and I don’t think her heart was in it.

 I would say W is a type of clinger, she wants out of the M but she won’t leave the house, she won’t leave me, in fact we are going through the D process and she is making it her aim to take as much money from me as she can, in fact my money will be supporting her in her new life when the courts make their ruling.

Right now she has been dumped by OM#2 but is still in replay, she goes out when she pleases and comes back at late hours and is a monster to me 24/7, mainly passive as I avoid interaction with her around the house. I would say she’s right in the middle of her tunnel as she seems so sure and determined in the direction that she is going. If I look at our very long time line I don’t think she’ll be out of replay anytime soon, I think it will take divorce and a few years away from me for that to happen.
   
Hi Thundarr,

That should say an EA from 1999 some guy she used to chat to on the phone, I actually confronted him and he soon scarpered.  STBXW seems by her nature  always seem have male friends in her phone book that she could call on for a “chat”.

 Separate PA 2006 – 07 & 2013. OM#1 was someone she picked up in a club, OM#2 was someone she met years ago through her then bff at the time. Everyone always saw W as a spoilt pampered princess, Flawed character or MLC ? probably both.


Lanzo

[Jackolar12]

Hi Jackolar,

Yep its been a real rollercoaster with STBXW, I honestly don’t know what she is looking for in life but whatever it is it doesn’t include me. I agree 2007 was the real BD, at that point her one night stand with OM#1 was an EA but once the bomb was dropped it went physical again. When that ended she wanted to work on the M but it never felt right and I don’t think her heart was in it.

 I would say W is a type of clinger, she wants out of the M but she won’t leave the house, she won’t leave me, in fact we are going through the D process and she is making it her aim to take as much money from me as she can, in fact my money will be supporting her in her new life when the courts make their ruling.

Right now she has been dumped by OM#2 but is still in replay, she goes out when she pleases and comes back at late hours and is a monster to me 24/7, mainly passive as I avoid interaction with her around the house. I would say she’s right in the middle of her tunnel as she seems so sure and determined in the direction that she is going. If I look at our very long time line I don’t think she’ll be out of replay anytime soon, I think it will take divorce and a few years away from me for that to happen.
   
Hi Thundarr,

That should say an EA from 1999 some guy she used to chat to on the phone, I actually confronted him and he soon scarpered.  STBXW seems by her nature  always seem have male friends in her phone book that she could call on for a “chat”.

 Separate PA 2006 – 07 & 2013. OM#1 was someone she picked up in a club, OM#2 was someone she met years ago through her then bff at the time. Everyone always saw W as a spoilt pampered princess, Flawed character or MLC ? probably both.


Lanzo. Hi Lanzo my ex is starting her third year in replay and she has been with the new alienator for about 18 months, she stole him from a 33 year marriage I met his wife and she was terribly upset as you can imagine. Both divorces are finalised and if it goes according to script I expect them to marry this year and let's see what happens,he cheated on his ex before so with my ex and him it is only a matter of time before one of them cheats on the other.
My ex was dead sure what she wanted and it is such a shame to see her destroying her previously good name and nature and like you Lanzo I think I'm about three years from seeing any progress.
With the divorce settlement she had the better deal by about £50,000 and there was nothing I could do about this as my costs were escalating,I think when things are done and dusted and you find your own place and adjust to the solitude you will find an inner peace which you need now as you are going through a living nightmare.
At this moment in time I cannot engage with women other than flirting which they love,over Xmas I had an offer to go home with one at the end of the night which panicked me and I said no and I believe I can be with no other just her and she's a train wreck so I guess I will be alone a long time Lanzo, take care.

[Lanzo]

2 - 7 years is the average for MLC, but I think my STBXW is an extreme case.

D12 relayed to me a conversation with STBXW about their future residence. W said "carpets in the bath room are un hygienic because men always pee  on them and they become smelly and your dad is disgusting because that's the sort of thing he  does". D12 got upset and shouted back "Why do you always try to make things about dad when he wasn't even the subject of the conversation". D told me that STBXW apologised the next morning for upsetting her.

The reason I mentioned that conversation is that it shows W will project on me at any opportunity, she is still  in replay, deep in her tunnel even though we are a good number of years past the original BD.


Lanzo

[hawk]

Hey people.
Tbh , l'm still not even sure this is mlc with W because of our circumstances. Which is gonna sound pretty dumb because she actually went into early menopause , 39 but hid it completely. But even hiding it might be explainable because l'd become really close to and spending time with one of our friends who was younger than w so l suspect she didn't want to admit it.
But we'd had 5yrs of trying to settle in a very hard new area , 3hrs from family and after living and moving about interstate for 1o yrs.  We were exhausted when we got here and l became really depressed about not getting work or buy a home for my family but w wanted to stay here , she just had to stop and settle ,we both did.
lt took 41/2 yrs to finally get steady work and we picked up a cheap renovator on 1 ac.
But it needed heaps of work to even get it livable , it took us 6mths to get the finance. l also had a new little business and l hated the new spot where the house is. l actually became even more down through just tiredness, the new are and l too was also wondering what was going to become of the rest of my life.

Meanwhile wife had started a new job , hard hrs,new work crowd ,  she was also doing a course, coping with the run down house , my moods because l was going 7days a wk on house or work and - she came into menopause and depression. So the poor thing was coping with one hell of a lot of sh!t .We were , extremely irritable , depressed .

Then friends came down to stay and l get along really well with one of them . But W was crashing at 7 or 8 every night , l just needed to have some damn fun . But l didn't sleep with the friend, we were just partying with the others , we were close but l still loved my W and didn't want an affair.
A lot of the time we actually thought we were helping her because there's no way l can go to bed at those hrs so we'd shut all the doors , kept it down and left her in peace . she's told me a 100 times that's all she needed, lots of early nights and didn't expect me to just sit around alone. She knew how much l'd done , work,the house .
Well the friends were coming and going over 14mths , often staying over.
4mths before we separated l also started sleeping in the lounge. l had to . W started being really wrestless all night , a lot of noise and l was often awake all night.
6  wks before telling me she wanted to separate though, she told me she still loved me and wanted to grow old together .
l had to think about that because she hadn't been acting that way and l was confused myself but we did cuddle and l said l felt the same but that l was very surprised .

About 3 wks after that , she was in bed at 7 as usual so l went in to tslk to her . l'd had big light bulb moments and realized how miserable l'd been around her , her me , we'd just lost the plot through everything . l couldn't wait to cuddle her and talk.
Well , she'd been working on a separation letter , seeing counselors and shrinks and gave me the letter.
She told me everything , the menopausing , the depression , the doctors , about how l was in love with and turned on by  the friend , how l hated it there and we'll never settle down , our money worries , how she thought l was gonna leave her or at least move out of the house and set up the shed.
These were all things she'd been hiding and living with scared and depressed for 18mths. lt broke my heart.
But then , she tells me about some friend she'd met . 3wks after saying she wanted to grow old with me.
And he'd been very supportive , she wants to separate and start seeing him. She was even holding back her excitement .
She said she didn't even think l'd care , l was in love with the friend and leaving anyway. she said we'd become so different , how the skrinks explained that l was one personality and she was another , lots of other stuff about us. But we'd also always been just a classic couple too before all this. People use to just stare at us all the time at the way we'd normally get along and how into each other we were.
This stuff is mostly in my thread but to see if it even is an mlc , you have to know the big picture so sorry to anyone that's read it.

But l can say 3yrs before , along with stresses , in and out of depression myself too , some ugly fights , is when she started becoming distant and seemed un caring which is actually what made me become distant in the first place . She also completely stopped looking after herself , lounging around night after night just tv ,bed.
l couldn't really say though there was anything else much , no real changes in her . Just seemingly caring less and less. lt was all serious us signs though l realized later, time to act then, tlc us again. , get myself together .

Then we'd had a very stressful time trying to finance the house , finally got in and for 5-6 mths we all loved it and things got a bit better between us. But l also had so much to do there was no time. Then we had neighbour troubles and l really started to hate the spot and all my wife's stuff also started to happen to unbeknown to me , then the friends too.
But it wasn't until our last 3mths , l saw other things with her. She started going to a few work things with the new crowd. Then around to new friends places. There'd also been heaps of self help books around the house and she started putting Zen quotes up on the fridge. She'd normally mock all that stuff. Then new music and she started losing weight and buying clothes.
l've gotta say , during the worst most heartbreaking fight we had after she told me , she looked the best she had in 5yrs.
Then she moved out into town and we decided my d 12 should go with her too , 10mins away.
For the first 6mths of that , she was wearing all different clothes, hair different and salons every few wks , she was looking really nice.
God knows why , you should of seen this guy , one strange funny looking dude . Talk about sell herself short. Her personality was all bright and cherpie too , considering she'd just blown up her family after 18yrs. lt was as if the world was just great.

Well , we split 14mths ago and about after the first 6mths , she started letting herself go again. Then she went l'm pretty sure into depression again it seemed . Put on more weight and looking very crap again.
her personalities changed a lot since. As if she's just let herself go , like who gives a fk basically.

She's still very  good to me and has been very open and fair with me and my d and all our debts and repayments .
l see her 3 or 4 times a wk coming and going for my d and l often spend 3 or4hrs over there midwk to be with my d. W usually sticks around to and is lately very much the way she was again now , 3-4yrs ago.
We ring if business or d , sometimes small stuff , but l couldn't really say she goes out of her way to call or visit though.
l think l'd still like to R , not sure though but with me coming and going for d , l often wonder if W might call more if she wasn't seeing me.  At about 6mths we also text all nighters a few times and she talked about everything and her guilt , how sorry she was and how she'd made such a mess.

So mlc or perfect storm , l don't know but l do think if mot for her menopausing frame of mind she would've wanted to save our family .

[Jackolar12]

Hi hawk mid life crisis script for sure,they do a 180 turn want to be teenage again and affair down because to the other person they are special and feel valued again, 3-4 years on she's in laminality(is she still with the alienator?)she has admitted her responsibility which is great and sounds like she is transitioning into rebirth and reintegration,if you still want her hang on in there and show her kindness,love and support and let me know your progress friend, mines going into her third year and is no contact and still in escape and avoid and I'm still standing for her and she did a lot of sleeping early before she dropped the bomb and when she did she said the craziest things like a teenager would it totally boggled my brain.
Regards Jackolar Wales uk