[OldPilot]

OceanLady, here is the reply to my question.

I am a man whose marriage is in crisis.

And now I have another question. Is your marriage is crisis because you are in crisis or because you wife is in crisis?

And it is not the marriage who is/has in/the crisis, it is the person. Lets not forget that single people have MLC, therefore invalidating that MLC is a marital/spousal issue.

As for a spouse meeting all our needs. No persob all the needs of another person,

My guess is they are BOTH in crisis.

[Anjae]

My guess is they are BOTH in crisis.

That would not be uncommon. Still, it would be two people in crisis. Of course it would like the marriage is in crisis.

[stayed]

It seems people are a little confused as to why you are questioning the "role of the LBS".  We know the actual crisis is not about us.  We LBS's get that.  I guess what some of us question and others absolutely refuse to even consider is, would the crisis have happened if our spouses had been with someone else?  Did our actions/behaviour contribute to the eventual "crisis"? 

Is that what you are questioning terrified_in_TN?  I think the LBS goes through a lengthy period where we believe the complaints, the criticisms of our MLCer.  In fact, there always is SOME truth in what they say.  This truly needs to be considered.  These questions about ourselves is what is going to ricochet us onto this journey, that we did not ask for. 

This journey is going to teach us much, hopefully.  Some of the MLCer's complaints were justified and hopefully, part of our journey will be to rectify these traits, that really are not helpful to anybody, least of all ourselves.  We have so many questions about ourselves, our spouses/partner, our marriages/relationships.  Why did we become overly assertive, controlling, or perhaps we became passive and compliant?  That's just the tip of the iceberg, I am sure everybody has their own private queries.  This is the time to inspect yourself, your partner, your relationship. 

The actual crisis, that's not our problem.  We really can't do anything about that.  Still, we can rectify some behaviours that developed over the years and discover why we changed.  Maybe you will want to stay that way, perhaps you won't, but now is the time to honestly evaluate your own PERSONAL responses, behaviour and actions. 

Seriously, what do you have to lose?  We are definitely in no state to start a new R, with our original partner or a brand new one, so why not spend the time and figure out how you tick.  I've been 8 years and I'm still discovering things, about both of us.

Hugs Stayed

[thetruth]

Thank you to everyone for their replies, I appreciate the time it takes.

I have read much of the reference material on the main site and found it very informative.

I know spouses/partners are not there to be all things for the other, I apologize for my gross generalization in my first post.

If I can sum up what I think I've read, an MLC is marked by many different actions and conditions, most notably but not exclusively, sudden and drastic changes in behaviour, affairs (physical and emotional), and an apparent complete loss of interest or love in the spouse. And this dramatic change has its roots in unmet childhood needs.

That said, it appears that issues found in long-term marriages or relationships such as ineffective communication, issues of respect and boundaries, differences over money, intimacy, work and other issues will not cause an MLC because an MLC is a preexisting 'condition' waiting to be triggered.

Is that a fair statement?

[in it]

I agree with that..makes the most sense to me.

[Returned]

Issues found in long-term marriages or relationships such as ineffective communication, issues of respect and boundaries, differences over money, intimacy, work and other issues will not cause an MLC because an MLC is a preexisting 'condition' waiting to be triggered.

Interesting point thetruth. All of those things you name are certainly factors that can cause the breakdown of a marriage. However MLC and the breakdown of a marriage are two totally separate things.

MLC is not a preexisting condition, it is a life stage which some individuals go through, usually between the age of 40 and 60. It can last from two to ten years but the average is around five. It is most likely multifactorial, and perhaps not identical in all persons. The evidence is that in men the trigger may be dropping levels of testosterone in an individual who has a predisposing avoidant coping style. Childhood issues may certainly be at work in the development of the avoidant coping style. In avoidant coping styles a person attempts to hide or run away from problems rather than working through or solving them.

MLC is characterized by the following:
1- A period of withdrawal from family life
2- Depression over the achievement of life goals
3- Engaging in secretive behaviors: hidden telephones, secret phone calls, secret trips.
4- A desperate belief that one needs to start life over, and that in order to do that one must literally run away: abandon ones family, ones work, ones children. In order to do this they must drive their loved ones away.
5- A belief that ones wife is the cause of failure to achieve life goals, and the belief that if one finds the "right person" one will somehow reach those life goals.
6- A tendency to start an affair with an individual who provides flattering attention, and to become infatuated with that person and see them as the solution to all their problems. This affair partner may or may not be "an old flame" or someone who is several decades younger. Once the period of idealizing the affair partner fades, the person in midlife crisis may move on to a second or third partner seeking each time the one who will be the solution.
7- Frequent lying.
8- A sudden event where the person in midlife crisis verbally attacks their spouse and abandons their family. During this event the person in midlife crisis appears to desire to inflict the maximum amount of pain "you are old", "you are wrinkled" "you are no longer useful to me".
9- Failure to guarantee the well being of the family.
10- Engaging in behaviors which remind one of ones youth. This can take many different forms: alcohol, drug use, excessive exercise.
11- Poor money management and financial judgment. A tendency to purchase things one cannot afford to boost ones self esteem - a car, a yacht, a home.
12- Fear of aging, and attempts to dress, act and associate with individuals much younger than ones age. People in MLC tend to look at themselves in the mirror.
13- Problems with anger and poor judgment regarding consequences of ones actions.
14- A generalized lack of empathy for others, and especially for the family.
When these behaviors are engaged in over many years the person in MLC may not just destroy their famly they may destroy their career and their finances. Certainly the above mentioned behaviors may destroy a marriage.

When a normal marriage breaks down ineffective communication, issues of respect and boundaries, differences over money, intimacy, and work can all be factors. The couple can try to discuss these problems and search for a solution or they may argue. They can go to counseling, or if that doesn't work they can separate for a cooling off period, and if that doesn't help they can divorce. However the 14 factors listed above are not characteristics of a normal marital breakdown.

[trusting]

LJ, where did you find that list?  My H is 14/14. Wow. Guess he is in MLC.

[toughtimes]

Yes a great list.

The thing with a MLC marriage breakdown is the nastiness, 2,5 years on and H is still blaming me, still demonising me, still wanting me to suffer or pay for my wrongdoings! A normal breakdown, even one that was awful, we would both be balanced and accepting, yes we both made mistakes etc. my h divorced me for my unreasonable behaviour six weeks before he could have done it based on a two year no fault separation. No blame, no shame. I appealed to him through my solicitor, but he wouldn't wait, his anger and need to be the victim was palpable in those papers. If it's two years and you're happy and settled in a new R you don't feel the need to do that. You just hold your hands up and say, let's do this in the least damaging way possible.

Of course I made mistakes, I was with him since I was 24 to 38, I had two kids, bought a flat, sold a flat, had a career, swapped career for kids ... We both struggled through some stressful times, you name it. But most people I know in long term Rs go through the same thing. Perfection doesn't exist.

Mlc is an issue within the individual, like depression. I suffered with PND, not my Hs fault, but because I was depressed I sometimes felt resentful of him and felt he didn't support me enough. It's depression, it makes you feel bleak, if you're not aware that it's depression talking , certain in Replay MLCers are not aware, you look for external reasons why you feel so unhappy, miserable, desperate, suicidal. Mlc is a huge depression and replay behaviours allow the person to mask that depression for a time. Depression isn't someone else's fault, be it wife, children, mum or dad or granny! It's biological and a huge part of mlc is biological.

I like the FB quote, in a nutshell is it saying people fall out of love, you can't make someone love you. Sure you can't and I guess we accept the impermanence of aspects of life. But if my h simply fell out of love with me and in love with someone else, why make it all so awful? Why say such horrid things? Why blame me? MLC!

[OceanLady]

Searching for The Truth.  Where did he go?   Bump

[MeNow]

I believe many are blindsided because in most cases there is a OP. A spouse meets someone new quite suddenly, falls for them, then of course this new relationship blindsides the LBS. In most cases, I believe the WAS never intended to leave but the other person changes that.