[Trustandlove]

Hi, all -- I hope this is the right icon to use for this.

I just wrote a whole long post, and it suddenly disappeared!  Does that happen to anyone?  I don't know what key I hit to make that happen...grrrr

Anyway, what I want to write about is this:  we have two old, dear friends, men who have known H since he was a teenager if not earlier and me for over 20 years now.  We are godparents to each other's children, that kind of thing.  These aren't just casual buddies.  They are about 5 years older than H, and seem to have navigated their own midlife transitions at this point.

They have consistently said that they would try to help; they were shocked to their cores when H left, are still bewildered by what they see as a completely changed person. 

I occasionally talk to them about MLC; I don't preach, but still.  Today I was speaking to one of them on the phone, the subject came up, and I said something along the lines of "the crisis is in HIM, which provoked a crisis in our marriage; but once the crisis has begun it has to run it's course".  He said that knowing me he was sure I had researched this to the nth degree, but that he didn't really understand it.  He said that he still couldn't get why H would leave, when I did so much for him and our family, when I took so much of the stress from him. 

They both think H is wrong; they don't exactly bash him as they do consider him a friend, but each did try to tell him what they thought.  That, of course, went nowhere. 

My question is about educating them -- not that I intend to give them my (extensive) library of reading material, but as they really do seem open to learning I'm wondering what I could give them.

It's almost like I want a summary sheet:  'MLC for laymen'.  What would anyone suggest?  I know I found a summary on a website (was it divorceSupport or something like that) that might be useful.

It's not that I want to educate them to get them to talk to him, but otoh these are two of the very few people that H respects, and seeds they plant might have a better chance of growing.   He very rarely (it's been a small handful of times these 3 years) contacts them, and these days when he does it's very superficial -- talk about sports, or a concert or something.  Not that they spoke super in-depth before, but still. 

I guess I also want them to understand for my sake, if for no other reason. 

Does anyone else have friends who want to help?  Who want to (or perhaps do) 'get' the situation? 

This is a subject that RCR hasn't (yet?) addressed in her articles, and it's not something I've seen much discussed elsewhere.  Any thoughts?

Right -- I'm posting this before it disappears again!

[MarkedandHealed]

I think sending them to RCR's main website is a great resource. It's how I decided my H fit the description. I'm reading a lot of books and so far she really summarizes it very well. I'm reading Conway and Jungian books, and her descriptions fit so well.

I sent my MIL here and she was so impressed, she began printing the pages so when H awakens she can have something to show him. (I didn't agree with that, but she's his mother and I'm not going to control anyone ever again if I can help it... she's free to make her own mistakes - or maybe they won't be mistakes.)

I think it's wonderful that you have such supportive friends.

[Rollercoasterider]

TAL,

Since the question was about explaining MLC, I switched it to the MLC icon, the book is only for your personal story thread. It will take everyone a bit to learn them and I wasn't sure what icon for this either, but it is about MLC.

As for books, Conway's is a good choice, but so are the Jungian texts. The Middle Passage by James Hollis is perhaps one of the best and is short. I also recommed Peter Oconnor's Understanding the Mid-Life Crisis but it is out of print and difficult to find; I ordered my copy from Amazon's used list. Conway's addresses the spouse and is written to her, but the others are not about marriage and relationship, merely crisis.

And yeah, maybe my website can explain, The MLC landing page is a good overview and the stages section are the best starters. Show them HeartsBlessing's 6 Stages article also.

[Trustandlove]

Thanks so far; yes, I guess this is the MLC icon....

I did think about all the resources mentioned;  that out-of-print book is one of the few things I haven't read..... 

I was thinking more along the lines of something more concise, at least to start with, as it can be hard to digest a lot at once.

I think I will start with the idea that he is running from depression -- one of the questions these guys asked was if he was running away from something or just didn't want to be here.  So in order to get across the idea that the crisis is internal that is probably the way to start. 

I haven't shared the gory details with them -- I have just said that I finally got the whole story back before Christmas, 2.5 years after he left.  Before that he was adamantly denying any OW and anything else, saying that it was all because I was wrong. 

I'm also wondering if I should be more open about his replay behaviours.  Any thoughts?

It will be interesting to try to talk about covert depression -- I'm not sure if either of them gets depression.  They are more "just get on with it" men, and both have found things in life that fulfill them when the daily grind doesn't. 

And yes, I am very grateful for their friendship. 

[Still]

T&L,

It is wonderful that your friends want to help. However, it may be taken poorly by your H.

My H and I belong to a very close group of married Christian friends. We are often together for various things.

When my H started going through his changes, not wanting to be married, concerts, drinking, etc., several of his friends attempted to address this with him. He was very upset by their "interference". He viewed it as my "telling everyone our dirty laundry", even though most of what they knew was directly from their own observation.

Jim Conway's book references that the best thing friends can do is to continue to be the MLC'er's friend, not condone the behavior, but to love the friend. Ultimately, when he comes through MLC, he will need to draw from those friendships to re-enter his life. I did speak with our friends and asked them to just be his friend. Our closest couple's husband told me, "I will be his friend as long as there is no OW in the picture. I will draw the line at that point." So, I think friends have their limits, too.

[Trustandlove]

Yes, I'm very aware that any 'help' may be taken poorly.  These friends and I have already discussed the fact that them telling him anything could even be counterproductive.

At the same time they do want to understand, so I'm continuing the conversations with them. 

H is very rarely in touch with them these days, and if he does see them, the talk is just about sports, concerts, or the like. 

[ForeverHopefulOne]

just wanted to add that half.com is a GREAT place to find out of print books for really cheap.  I picked up Peter O'Connor's book there for $4.

[justasking]

FHO

I was lucky enough to find this book by Peter O'Connor. I read it in the early stages and found it helpful but I have just reread it over 18 months later. H is now in a very different place and the book was a revelation and it really brought all the jigsaw pieces together. It has true insight 

An excellent book. Hope you enjoy it.

xx

[JoJoJo]

My friend sent me this link saying while obviously not everything fits what I am going through, this is essentially how she feels! 

http://www.scarymommy.com/letter-best-friends-ex-husband/



merged with similar discussion thread

[Trustandlove]

Goodness, I started this thread years and years ago....  and this is still going on...

It made me reflect on those same friends; I never did give them any reading material; I did once show the website to someone close, who cared. 

Those same friends who wanted to help are still my friends; I can report that over the years they have tried to continue to see H; a number of years ago one of them said that he had given up on H, that H was too hard work, that H was trying to be a 20-year old.  He didn't want to give up, but was throwing his hands up in exasperation.

H of course shut down any and all conversations that didn't go the way he liked.

Those same friends are still my friends, are our family friends.  I feel lucky in that.  I know that they do see H occasionally, to go to a concert of similar.  They don't socialise with him and his new circle.

I hope that they tell H what great kids we have, it would be lovely if they said what a good job I was doing, but I no longer ask anything like that.  Haven't for years. 

I like the idea of the letter in the previous post; I like the truth darts -- that it was the H who precipitated the divorce.  It doesn't sound like MLC there, though. 

I know I have tried to be that friend in another situation; a female MLCer I know who left her H.  She used to see me, she wanted to put across her own point of view.  When i told her flat out what I thought, surprise, surprise, she no longer wants to.  Although she is civil when we meet, usually in company. 

Who knows, may be it got through on some level, although in her case her H has someone else, the family is completely fragmented.  Sad. 

What I said to another longtime friend the other day was that if you say prayers, please say one for him.  And nothing more. 

What I would say now, as I am no longer quite as emotional as I was all those years ago, is for them to be REAL friends -- the kind that tell the truth, rather than enable -- and "standing by, supposedly supporting any and all actions", isn't what a REAL friend does.  A real one tells you to stop being an idiot. 

And I'd tell them to stick to their guns and not worry about alienating him.  But reading material?  Only if they really, really wanted it, as otherwise it just doesn't seem to go in.

We research this like crazy, others don't....

And I do make sure i stick to those friends, that's part of me being the best me I can be.