[MeNow]

Personally I think the child support I'm paying is a crock. I have my D 1/2 of the time and provide her with the same exact things ex does, a roof over her head, her own room, food, etc. Ex makes as much as I do. Yet it is all determined by a preset formula, a one size fits all outcome. I guarantee all that cs money doesn't go to D.

As for marriage, I'm a believer in it although I have to think twice (or 3 times) about it before doing so again. The laws in this country and issues about inheritance are certainly a concern.
Marriage used to be about security - financial, family, relational. But laws and cultural values shifting have stepped in and turned things upside down.

This wasn't by accident. TPTB (the powers that be) have pushed the values swing over the past 60 years and have created the very laws that divide men and women. Divorce is granted for any reason and the offender is rewarded rather than punished. Men are fearful to marry and women don't need to get married anymore. All the benefits are there without the commitment. The married know they can bail when things get tough, no penalty. Chance? No, design.

[Mad Hatter]

So what you are saying is, you can't be in an exclusive (possibly intimate) relationship with a man unless he gives you some kind of financial support? No offense, but that's basically prostitution, or maybe escort service, at best! But at least you are honest and I can appreciate that!

Yes, it beats doing charity. Does not taking money make me any less a prostitute when he walks away?

Interesting point; can honestly say I don't really have a response at this time so I'll ponder it a bit.

Even with alimony and 50% assets, the women here feel used and abused. Replaced. Imagine how I feel.

Both genders feel used and abused; betrayed, belittled, ego crushed; self-esteem in the dirt. Yep, replaced too!

But, majority (not all) men have the added "luxury" of losing our kids, 50%-100% of assets and alimony. And some end up paying her attorney fees as well! The man loses everything and then becomes a financial slave; in some cases, for life! And there is no way to really know if the child support you pay is really going to the kids. It's not like you can say "hey, give me an itemized list of how you spent my money on little Johnny!"

I'm not saying this can't or doesn't happen to women; but it very rarely ever happens!

[paradigmshift]

But, majority (not all) men have the added "luxury" of losing our kids, 50%-100% of assets and alimony. And some end up paying her attorney fees as well! The man loses everything and then becomes a financial slave; in some cases, for life! And there is no way to really know if the child support you pay is really going to the kids. It's not like you can say "hey, give me an itemized list of how you spent my money on little Johnny!"

Yes, I agree that this is downright wrong. Well, this is the fallout for not upholding the sanctity of marriage. Laws of man will never find a satisfactory equilibrium. God joins, Man divides.

[Mad Hatter]

Personally I think the child support I'm paying is a crock. I have my D 1/2 of the time and provide her with the same exact things ex does, a roof over her head, her own room, food, etc. Ex makes as much as I do. Yet it is all determined by a preset formula, a one size fits all outcome. I guarantee all that cs money doesn't go to D.

A good friend of mines parents divorced when he was younger. His dad kept a log book of everything he spent on them in addition to paying alimony. He actually opened a second account and put money in it strictly for the kids so he had a clean trail of expenditures. When the ex-wife got greedy and took him back to court, not only did she not get more alimony, the judge actually reduced it and eventually eliminated it. The log book and the account transaction records basically won the case for him.

As for marriage, I'm a believer in it although I have to think twice (or 3 times) about it before doing so again. The laws in this country and issues about inheritance are certainly a concern.
Marriage used to be about security - financial, family, relational. But laws and cultural values shifting have stepped in and turned things upside down.

Pre-nup and follow on post-nup. If she loves you for who you are, and has no intention of raking you later, then she will sign. If she throws a hissy fit, that's a serious red flag!

As for choosing and wading through the current cesspool, here are some "rules" as a good starting point for choosing a wife or an LTR for that matter. Of course these are subjective, and a couple near impossible at some of our ages, however, good women are still out there you just have to find them:

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2010/03/10-critical-things-in-how-to-choose-a-wife/

This wasn't by accident. TPTB (the powers that be) have pushed the values swing over the past 60 years and have created the very laws that divide men and women. Divorce is granted for any reason and the offender is rewarded rather than punished. Men are fearful to marry and women don't need to get married anymore. All the benefits are there without the commitment. The married know they can bail when things get tough, no penalty. Chance? No, design.

Those laws were originally enacted to protect women in the "Nuclear Family" era; when SAHM was the status quo and minimal women in the work force.

The Nuclear Family is dead! Women can rise as high as a man; anyone that says they can't needs to go do some research. In fact, female college attendance is higher than male. These laws don't apply anymore and need to be rewritten, but you can't get a lawmaker to look at it let alone touch it thanks to the libtards and the feminist machine!

[Picton]

Just trying to sort out child support at the moment. It amazes me how different it is between countries. Where I come from both of us pay a percentage of our wages to other parent.  Whoever earns more pays the difference - gender is not a factor. Once you have lived with someone more than 2 years matrimonial property is divided in half. I think this is fair - I don't want more and shouldn't be entitled to more than 50%
I can see why some of you think you have been treated unfairly - sorry you USA's I think your law sucks. Overdue for a rewrite I think!

Kia kaha - stay strong

[OldPilot]

l'm afraid of that to Dj .
l use to feel l could help people out with marriage and relationship probs if they asked . And a lot did bc me and my ex were really looked up to , even by mu parents.
l remember thinking at 10 yrs though , ha , 10 yrs , l can't give anyone advice 10 yrs is nothing . And then we got to 15 and l started to think well maybe , maybe now l can just say little things but , so much for that.

But the worst part now is , l just don't feel l have the confidence or knowledge or experience anymore to help my daughter in any way to do with relationships when the time comes . And why would she even listen to me anyway we screwed ours up . She can't even ask her mum.
Thankfully l have a few more yrs to figure somem out if it ever is needed.

like you l feel l could help a son though but no sons so .

l honestly don't know what l'd say in that sitch , depends l suppose on the circumstances and the person.
But l do just feel like all my ways and ideas , thoughts , have all been turned on their head these days thanks to my break up .

OK here is my .02 about this.

I have learned so much about relationships and healthy marriages in the past 6 years that I have no problem giving my ADULT children marital advice if I choose too.

My son just got engaged and I gave him the book.
His Needs Her Needs by Dr. Williard Harley.

Once you are totally DETACHED it is much easier to look back at the situation and see it much more clearly.
Let GO of the ANGER and the EXPECTATIONS.

I think that is one of the most important things that you must learn.

MLC seems to be such a male dominate dis-ease, as evident by the sheer numbers of women on this forum.  Us men are certainly a minority.  So it looks like only a very small fraction of women actually go through MLC.  Hopefully the odds are in your kids favor as long as they are taught not to "lose" themselves in another person, and not to get involved with someone who "needs fixing".

So, how did us men on this forum get so lucky as to end up with MLC wives? 

There is an error in common logic and math here.
Just because this forum is dominated by woman does not mean that MLC is dominated by men going through it.
The DB forum is dominated by MEN.
There are other forums that are all MALE and mostly they are BITTER and ANGRY.
I have always liked it here much better.

As far as how you ended up with an MLC woman, luck.

Also you were conflict avoiding, codependent and enabling, as were most other LBS Male and Females on this forum.

[hawk]

This will really hurt guys but we have no rules or papers telling us anything. We did it all ourselves , not even a lawyer .
Neither of us are greedy people or wanted to srcew the other , we just wanted the best we can do for our d like this.
She even payed out my car with her share of  house money and we didn't get much , not much at all.
The house and blocks we owned to , we just made our deal for each other in it all.
There was stuff we had to sign and send into the family courts but that was all mutually agreed  50 50. with costs for my d and we just send it in.
Never been any issues we both seem to just speak up or offer up our share with big things and take care of our ends of thing with d.
She has my acc and l have hers . We'll each usually just throw money in the others if one of us owes something.
Ex just forked out 3 or 4grand for school stuff 2wks ago and hasn't even told me how much or what l owe yet . Which ;'ve also done myself a few times with big stuff. l actually asked her just before and she says oh yeah l'll figure it out when l get time - could be mths.

We're both like that or don't even bother 1/2 the time . lt really does keep the ugly out of all this sh@t .
lf l was broke tomorrow to all l'd have to do is drop ex a text and she'd drop in whatever l need to the acc or vise verse .
Works really well , no ugly , no hassle. If you can do just do it , really helps . All it needs is fair and good will , l guess is that's the toughy for some though , shame .

[stayed]

Oh yea, I'm all over this thread!  Love it!  Love it!  Love it!

I have always found the men to be extremely respectful when commenting on any of the women's threads. I've also been amazed how SIMILAR our feelings are.  I was never comfortable around men, just didn't understand them and watched as much as I could, from afar. 

MLC has been the equalizer in my opinion.  I now see men as just as vulnerable and sensitive as any woman, in fact, more so in many ways. 

Regarding finances, I feel sorry for both parties. In the old long term marriages, where plans were made and eagerly looked forward to, have now all been totally obliterated.  The LBS is left with half the income of what he/she had expected.  Often, the MLCer has found a partner who is making a very good income, enabling their lives to carry on prosperously.  Others, just plain squander their pensions, savings, and salaries in an attempt to impress their new partner. 

I don't think either sex comes out of this situation better off financially.  It is just sad.  The thing about the children, for the men with the MLC wife, it does seem you often end up without your children as much as you would like.  Mainly because you honestly do not want to make your children PAWNS in this disgusting game.  Again, this only shows how DECENT and SENSITIVE most men are.  The MLC male, often doesn't want the children anymore, as it is the RESPONSIPILITIES they are actually walking away from.  Some female MLCer's also do that.  Read Ziggies' thread. 

Nobody benefits from this my friends, other then MAYBE the MLCer, whether they are male or female, because more times then not, they have a second person contributing financially, whereas the LBS is usually left to struggle on alone.  Try to keep that in mind.

As for remarrying, my problem with that, is it truly MUDDIES up the waters for our children.  If we have any money/savings, if we remarry, half of that would go to our new spouse, sometimes all of it.  They can then leave it all to THEIR children.  My h is dealing with a situation like this, this very moment.  She will not get his entire estate because they were in the process of a divorce and were only wed 3 months, when  FIL(90 yrs. old, dying of Congestive Heart Failure and she knew it)  decided he didn't like the arrangements.  She was in fact as Black Widow. 

Although she will not get much financial benefit from this situation, she still has added extra expense to an otherwise simple estate settlement.  Now, because she will PROTEST the will, it will have to go to probate, which means the gov't will get more money, the lawyer will be paid more, as it will require his/her services and the Black Widow will undoubtedly get a few thousand as well.  It's pretty messy!

Plus, for me, I don't want to live with another man.  I don't want to cook or be cooked for, or clean or be cleaned up after, or share my home or his home/bed/bathroom.  I don't want somebody else doing my laundry or me doing his.  I don't want to share my children or grandchildren with a stranger, nor participate with his children or grandchildren.  I guess I am just a selfish old cow.  If anything happens to my h, I am done with a permanent live in partner.  I would certainly seek out a companion/friend, but I have no desire to share much else, other then A GOOD TIME... with another!  Just my opinion!

Vent away, get it out of your system.  Hopefully, once the anger is purged the important business of REBUILDING yourselves will get started.

I have no intention of just LURKING.  I am not shy of a naughty word.  I know all the terminologies for both men and women... have used most of them myself.  So don't worry about me.  I hate double standards and will truly try not to do it myself.  Can't promise I won't though, cause I got my QUIRKS too.

Hugs and this is an excellent idea OP... Stayed

P.S.-  Just saw your comment Hawk.... wow, good for you!  If only we saw more of that!

[terrified_in_TN]

...
Just because this forum is dominated by woman does not mean that MLC is dominated by men going through it.
The DB forum is dominated by MEN.
There are other forums that are all MALE and mostly they are BITTER and ANGRY.
I have always liked it here much better.

As far as how you ended up with an MLC woman, luck.
...

  I am not disbelieving you, but I sure would like to see some REAL statistics, along with historical graphs...

I can't help but wonder what percentage of the population went through MLC in the 40s?  50s?  60s? etc.  I seem to recall this phenomenon is only a problem in westernized civilizations.  I wish I could recall the sources, but it seems to me that it is mostly a systemic problem.  I would garner a bet that back in the 40s and 50s VERY few women had MLCs.  Of course they were more subservient back then (I'm not saying that it was RIGHT, its just the way it was).  As women have gained more rights and freedoms over the decades, they have also gained the same pressures and stresses that men do when it comes to money, career, etc.  I bet a historical graph would be very telling.

Again, I think a lot of it is a "system" issue.  We are taught to be competitive; to "keep up with the Jones".  We have it drilled in us that success=happiness.  Hell, ever seen the show "Weeds"?  I LOVE the intro to that show.  I think it says a LOT.  Once we hit mid life, we wonder why in the hell did we waste a lot of time on what essentially amounts to "pursuit of the unobtainable American dream".

I know I am talking out of my butt, its early; haven't had my coffee yet.  But I honestly do believe it to be a "western" problem.

-T

[MeNow]

I agree and it's spreading though.