[peevee]

If I may go back to original poll question... I am certain now that my MLCer had a secret affair with OW (10 or 15 years younger) while still married to me. She dumped him after awhile. He was crying, out of his mind with grief- of course, I had no clue why he was so devasted, because he was still lying about the affair. I am also certain she was not the only one. There were others. Still, even if he was unhappy with OW, he decided to divorce me.  So, the fact that he didn't found happiness in other R didn't mean he came back to me or that he remembered how happy we were together once. I do believe he will continue searching and is stubborn enough that he will never admit he made a mistake (leaving his family), even if he never finds happiness in other Rs. 

And I do believe that the best revenge is to be happy without them. Possibly, with younger studs :-)

[Ready2Transform]

I do believe what RCR says right up front that the OP is a symptom, not the cause. Of course it's the part most of us focus on because it is the big game changer in our relationships. But underneath it all there is something else driving this thing that no relationship, no new location, no new job is going to magically cure. All we can do is love ourselves through it and make good choices.

[Anjae]

Peevee, even if our MLCer knows they are unhappy with OW they are still going to leave to be with her/stay with her

Then they may leave her and move on to OW number, 2, 3, 4, etc., with whom they are also not happy, but that also isn't going to bring them back.

They will try and try and try to prove themselves that some other person must bring them happiness. OW/OM does not bring happiness to the MLCer. However the MLCer can take a very long time to realise it.

We all think we have the super subborn MLCer who will never admit they have made a mistake. They tend to. Sometimes even during Replay (Mr J did it), but they will only come out of their tunnel when they will be ready.

If the MLCer never finds happiness there is little we can do. We cannot fix them, we cannot make them happy. They have to figure it out themselves.

[Dontgiveup]

I do believe what RCR says right up front that the OP is a symptom, not the cause. Of course it's the part most of us focus on because it is the big game changer in our relationships. But underneath it all there is something else driving this thing that no relationship, no new location, no new job is going to magically cure. All we can do is love ourselves through it and make good choices.

Another RCR quote that is an excellent reminder of the MLCer/alienator relationship......even if they marry......and we know what MLCers think of marriage anyway, right?

The alienator is just a convenient and willing player on stage.

[in it]

Yep the ex did admit he made a mistake divorcing me..but not to me... to a guitar playing buddy of his. He told him the exow was lying and stealing money from him.

His buddy asked him "What are you doing?"

I found this out after the DV incident.

The ex doesn't talk to him anymore. This buddy of his hung his head and said  " He hates me now" I said

 " Good! Maybe he'll stay away from you now"

[paradigmshift]

Oh yes, in a way I am happy mine went back into the cycle of 1month/6months/2-year relationships. I am kind of glad that he will now have to worry constantly about making OW stay. And I'm looking forward to the day OW cheats on and/or dumps him just like all his previous 9 ex-gfs.

In fact, now that I think of it, he once told me how one of his ex-gfs dumped him and left for her home country without informing him. He flew over to look for her and her bf (which he claims he didn't know about) tried to run him over with a car. He later penned a suicide note to her which he didn't send. Another ex's husband snatched the phone from her while they were having a conversation. He claims that her husband was abusive (they have 6 kids together), but now I think she was probably just a $lut that's why. The last one treated him better than I did, and I always told him that, in order to knock some sense of appreciation into him, but he slags her off as fat and uneducated. In the end she cheated on him and dumped him too, and he threatened suicide again (and that's when I met him). And no he did not return to her after BD. But shortly after she dumped him, he did call her in front of me to ask her if he was the best-looking bf she ever had (no, we  weren't together yet)  . And now that I think of it, he refused to get his stuff from her home. I had to go with him to get it. Hmm.

Anyway I'm glad he's back to the world he came from. He always saw my faithfulness as a flaw not a virtue. It's been 10 years so maybe he needs a reminder of what that world of broken hearts and suicidal nights really feels like.

[hawk]

Those of you who are offended by this topic will probably be pleased to know that I fell during my last race and badly scraped my knee and I am in excruciating pain now after accidentally pushing my laptop computer against it.

That worked out conveniently since none of us "old broads" were there to punch you in the arm for your stereotypes      .

uhm, no HT, who do you think tripped him ;-)...  When my exH had a heart attack right after BD (trying to keep up with the 15 year younger woman, who actually does not like sex, but loves hip-hop concerts).  I was freaked out and told my friend "Pastor B" and a couple others that in my pain and bitterness, I had wished for that to happen and I felt so terrible.  Pastor B said, oh ll, you are NOT that powerful, as she shook her head and looked at me sadly.  Then she got a wry smile and motioned around the room, and said, unfortunately, the collective rest of us ARE, so don't you worry, you don't own this.  Be careful MBIB, us old broads are very powerful... 

But, no, in reality, of course you are attracted to young women, as we are attracted to young men.  And you could land yourself dozens of them, for all the wrong reasons.  But in ten years when your running legs give out and the spare tire starts to form and your skin sags, and you start to have other mysterious ailments, my doctor calls "seasons of aging."  Do you REALLY think that 35yo is going to stay by your side?  Can you say H-E to the double L NO.  Even we, us collective old broads kind of weigh Rs really hard knowing that we are going to live longer, so how much do we WANT to take care of this prospect--also knowing that men generally SUCK to take care of.  I would rather take care of ALL my women friends than one of most of the men I know...  And it's a HUGE factor in a lot of MLCers wanting to come back too, I think.  When they realize that sad reality--WHO will take care of their flat sagging butts?  It ain't going to be the cute nurse with the perky rack unless you can still pay her really well and she has time off to have her real life "on the side." 

Plus, don't forget a lot of those hot babes want real babes and I get a super kick out of going places and watching the miserable MLC men with their young families...  It's schadenfreude, sure, but it was their choice, the fact that I get to see it is just a consequence...       

The crazy thing is , so do women and you can say all the same about older women and younger guys to but hey , that doesn't stop em cougaring does it.And whoever thinks women don't age the same haven't done much reading bc they do and in all the same places and then some and they also lose staying power believe me. 
But l spent years looking after my w and she was 11yrs younger than me and young for her age. My dad spent years looking after mum and she was 6yrs younger than him and went 4 yrs before him. He was in hospital once in his life she was in hospital for 20 yrs on and off of hers. Got 5 brothers, 4married , always waiting on or nursing their wives for something. Ones a 4th down karate expert and his is 12yrs younger than him but l really couldn't go where he's been waiting on her either still , they've been married 30yrs so he's doin a lot better than l did.
Could say the same for my ex and any of the women l've met single since, l can't believe the condition of them and all their ailments you'd think they were 95. So it all just goes round and round from what l see and l see a lot , done and been with a lot too.

Plenty of opps at 35yrs olds , actually why l'm still single l think, they've been the only ones close really but sadly , l just see mlc in 10 yrs time and l ain't goin there. That is sad isn't it!
What l would really like about now is someone closer to my own age but still as fit as l am and still lookin good. That'd be perfect . And preferably not a train wreck .
l'd also like the idea of being at the same stages in life too.

[LisaLives]

Hawk, your family's experience is DEFINITELY not the statistical norm.  Women generally live longer, healthier lives than men, and it is also statistically proven that many men walk when their wives have health setbacks.  A quick look at politicians and those aspiring, makes that plain...  But the interesting thing about cougars is the mindset.  There are shallow female cads, and that would be them.  Of course some are different, but I think most cougars are truly in it for the fun, not marriage, DEFINITELY not kids, or a family...  And neither are the cubs they are playing with...  I was just trying to caution MBIB that he should be careful thinking kittens and cubs play the same ;-).  Kittens usually want more and expect more...  Love and light, ll

[Ready2Transform]

I think if two people honestly connect (keyword: honestly), age really doesn't matter. OW in my case is a little older (not by a huge amount, but it fits with most of Hoss' MLC friends who are a good 10-30+ years older than him, especially since she has grown children still at home and we had none. He wants a mother figure).

I am open to what the future holds, but I do remember asking a friend a few years ago (female MLCer who was married, but living an "open" relationship after his MLC affair) what she saw in the younger men she was hooking up with. She said it was great for what they had in common, like current music, energy to party, sex. But her interest never lasted, because unlike with her H who was the same age as she was, there were none of those shared pop-culture and life stage experiences they could build on.

I remember my dad saying that too about his ex-wife, who was 13 years younger. Music was really important to him, but the music of his youth was the music of her parents' young adulthood, so he'd have to discuss it to them, not her, because it bored her! They were different races, and the cultural differences were nothing compared to the age difference. And they were both middle aged, so I don't get it!

But I keep that in mind when I see men in their early 50's. There would be a gap. But if it were Keanu Reeves or David Duchovny, I might be willing to deal with it. All men under 35 seem like babies to me, so I don't think I'm going to have to worry about the cougar thing grabbing hold. I don't want to raise a man! In some ways, I feel like I already have!

[HeartTattoo]

...unlike with her H who was the same age as she was, there were none of those shared pop-culture and life stage experiences they could build on.

This is where my H & his OW's R puzzles me.  She is 11 years younger.  Music has been such a touchstone in our lives.  We were pre-teens watching the Beatles hit America, teens with Motown & top 40 & then moving on to album-oriented rock radio stations & beyond.  We loved it all.  I can mark every stage of our lives by the music.  And then OW grew up in a rather isolated area, M'ed at 18 & had a baby shortly after.  We M'ed young too, but didn't have our first kid for 9 years, so we partied together, explored new music together.

I imagine OW loving whatever my H says he likes, but she still doesn't have that experience of THAT music permeating your life.  I'm left with the memories & a huge album collection I have to figure out how to get rid of.  Might do better selling them one by one on Ebay, but seems like a lot of work.

When/if I go looking for someone new I think I will only go 5 years younger to 5 years older, just for those musical/cultural reasons.  As far as health & fitness, that is so individual.  There are 40 year olds, both men & women, in terrible shape & 60 & 70 year olds in great shape.  Signs of aging come to us all, but good health in a new partner would be very important & the thought of taking on a new partner at 65 who, in not too many years, is likely to begin to have health problems is one reason I think I will be leery to make any kind of new commitments.  Fun & friendship, for sure.  M, I'm thinking absolutely not.  Something between, who knows?