[terrified_in_TN]

I'm sure this may not apply to all the MLC/WAWs on this forum, but I found this interesting.  It sure hit home in my situation.  In my sitch, I was the OM for my spouses first marriage (but was too young, stupid, and naive to realize it):

Note:  I believe the website is pushing for the sale of a book.  Not really a bad thing, but thought I'd let you know up front.

http://womensinfidelity.com/

Of particular interest was her 4 stages.  That last sentence of stage 4 really hit home (keep in mind, in my sitch, its just a repeat of history):

"Many of the divorced women who had remarried and were several years into their new marriages seemed somewhat reluctant to talk about the specifics of their past experiences. However, they did mention feelings of guilt and regret for having hurt their children and ex-spouses only to find themselves experiencing similar feelings in the new relationship."

-T

[Thunder]

Wow T, that was a very revealing article.  I agreed with most of it, but not all of it.

I think the part about having a loving H and a great family..but feeling somehow bored and empty just makes no sense to me.  I know that's not the words they used but it made it sound like women have this happy, healthy relationship with their H but still yearn for more.
In most cases it's not true..IMO.  The marriage was lacking something.

I think men and women are both guilty, for lack of a better word, of taking their M for granted.  A marriage is something that has to be worked on.  It's like a garden, if not watered and tended to it dies....or wilt.
Communication is so very important but we forget that.  We just "assume" after years together the other one should KNOW how we feel and that is so unfair.  No one is a mind reader.  We may sulk thinking they'll get it, but it only confuses the other person.

I'm only saying this because I remember thinking a few years before BD, I was not all that happy.  But it was more because I felt I was doing everything.  I took care of the house, the yard and I also worked a 40 hour a week job.  My H was pretty ambitious when we first bought our house.  He took a lot of pride in our home but it slowly dwindled.  I guess I was resenting him without realizing it and it effected both of us.  If I had only communicated better.

There is so much good information in that article.  It even helped you see your own situation in it. 

I have more to say but I'm anxious to hear what others thought.

One more thing I never was attracted to any other man.  Not in all the time we were together.  I might have had some resentments but I don't think I would have ever cheated on him, but that's just me.  Maybe these women felt their H's didn't find them attractive anymore and another man showed them attention.  That is a very powerful thing.

Thanks for posting the article!   

[terrified_in_TN]

One more thing I never was attracted to any other man.  Not in all the time we were together.  I might have had some resentments but I don't think I would have ever cheated on him, but that's just me.

  And that speaks VOLUMES about your character.  Really wanted to make this a discussion about the article and not my own sitch, but since you brought up some points T:

Yes, I think we are all guilty of letting the fruit wither on the vine.  I know I am.  And maybe that is what makes my sitch a WAW instead of MLC-She did try to hint to me that things were going south.  My male brain didn't get it.  By the time I started putting effort into it, it was too late...the infatuation chemicals took hold.     My spouse is also one of those who think those "butterfly feelings" are supposed to last forever.

As to the sex aspect of the article, that never really happened in my case (kind of) unless she was just faking.  HOWEVER, there was a couple times in the end where she felt VERY uncomfortable during.  She told me she got the same feeling that she had during a "date rape" (I hate to be like this, but I now doubt the legitimacy that the date rape really happened-hate to be that way, but who do you believe about something like that...her, or her XH?).  In any case, I think you can read that to mean she was no longer comfortable having sex with her h, but obviously enjoyed it with OM.

But the indecisiveness, check.  The "feeling alive" with a new r, check.  The "I've got to find myself", check.  The "not REALLY wanting to spend time with H", check.  The anger, bitterness, and blaming for her own actions, check.

-T

[Thunder]

See Terrified, I think the real problem is by the time you "get it" it's too late, in most cases.

Once the affair starts there is no do over.  Your chances of that are slim to none.  So what to we do about it?  Just learn a very hard lesson. 

If they eventually come back we are more aware, if they don't possibly our next R will benefit from it.

Thank you for the nice compliment.  I have just never had eyes for anyone else.  Still don't.

OH one thing I wanted to mention.  This thing about the W being looked at as the "good girl."  I truly believe that is why most men have a harder time with infidelity.  They do think of their W as a good girl.  Where women don't necessarily look at their H's that way.  They may think of him as a good guy but not "good" in the sense that men do.
Maybe it's the boys will be boys thing.  You never hear men say..well girls will be girls.   

Maybe that is why women tend to forgive easier.  He just did a bad boy thing.   

[OffRoad]

I actually get the part about being bored and empty, but in my case, it was because my H had gone MLC without telling me. Even while I was moving forward with my life (even though I didn't know it was MLC, I still went out and lived my own life), having someone there who wasn't there left me with a hole in my life, so I could go with empty. The bored would come when he had said we'd do something and silly me waiting, then he decided he didn't want to do that after all. (PO'd came with that, too, but that's another story)

So then I have to think about the men who put their all into work, because bringing home the paycheck is important to them, sometimes more so than spending time with their families. In these men's minds, they ARE loving their families, by making sure they are provided for, but they are loving them THEIR way. Their son would rather have dad home for his game than off making money. Their wife would rather have more time in the evenings than that skiing trip to Vermont the extra time at work brings. Those families may or may not be bored, but they might feel empty without their father/husband. Or the people with hobbies that take up all of their spare time. If they don't want to make time for their spouse, what's the point? Those are the wives who just walk away due to feeling left alone, I think. (same with H's, but we're talking women, here)

But there are certainly plenty of people who are just empty inside. They were controlled as children and have no idea who they are. They were sent on a path they thought was right, but wasn't necessarily them. They keep up with the Jones, and need all the latest toys because everyone has them. They have to stay in the herd so they can "belong" somewhere. They don't know their own minds, or have their own esteem. They are bored because unless someone else is telling them what to do, they don't have enough of their own personality established to know what they want to do on their own. These are the candidates for MLC, in my mind.

The difference, to me, is how covert the beginning was, and how FAST everything came after BD. My H said "He tried everything." Yep. He tried everything once, in rapid succession, with nothing but accolades from me for all his efforts RIGHT BEFORE BD, yet he still said I thought he wasn't good enough (I wonder how long he has been me and knows my thoughts? If he had, he'd have picked up his socks for 20 years...). There's the difference. The weirdness that goes with the withdrawal. Normal people don't do that.

[in it]

 

Yep I want to know just when was it we were supposed to become mind readers..I must have missed that memo...

Thanks for the socks thing OffRoad that about sums it up..

[Thirsty Duck]

I bought this e-book 4 yrs ago shortly after BD in the early days of trying to understand what was going on. From what I can remember, some parts were insightful, but there remained large, unexplained gaps not addressed relating to dramatic changes in behaviour, abandonment of children etc. The theories found here on HS on MLC are much more comprehensive. If you want, I will forward you the e-book, just PM me.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

The book doesn't seem to me as though it does much to describe an MLC situation where a couple is happy for 20 to 40 years and then the wife becomes depressed, her personality changes, and she does things that nobody thought she would ever do and destroys her relationship not only with her spouse but with her children, grandchildren, original family, and friends, and when her change in personality is so extreme that it destroys her husband, children, and grandchildren. I'm trying to keep an open mind but this book doesn't seem to relate to MLC at all unless some of the female LBSes were experiencing what the book describes. I think the key is this statement "women are the most likely to divorce in their late twenties and thirties after an average of 4 years of marriage". It doesn't sound like they were ever really committed to the marriage and decided to move on shortly after the infatuation wore off.

[terrified_in_TN]

True Brain-as I mentioned, I doubt this applies to all the male LBSes on the forum.

  Although we are all here, and all have "diagnosed" MLC with our spouses, the truth is...we aren't experts in human behaviour.  I'm sure many here are MLC, but in my case, this hit pretty close to home.  My spouse didn't abandon the children; she took one with her (although it has been said she did it for the "check", not the responsibility, so who knows).  She didn't blow up any relationships with friends-she just left to move back home.  Although there has been some strain between her and other family members, but that is nothing really new.  Certain siblings of hers thrives on drama.

  Again, this is just applicable to my own sitch:  Off-Road said it best:

"In these men's minds, they ARE loving their families, by making sure they are provided for, but they are loving them THEIR way".  It wasn't enough.  Although I was trying to make up lost ground to provide a somewhat secure future, she wasn't willing to wait.  I don't work HARD, but I work LONG, which quite often left me tired and not wanting to do anything.  Okay, talking too much about my own sitch, but even though I have never read it "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" comes to mind.  We show love in different ways, and sometimes I guess one way isn't the way the other needs.

What my REAL point of this is:  I am relationship inexperienced.  But what I am quickly finding out is "nasty" break-ups follow a common theme, whether its MLC, WAS, or just a teenager breaking up with a boy/girlfriend because they like someone else more.  The same symptoms appear.  The article could explain some female MLC reasoning, or WAW reasoning, or nothing at all applicable to our spouses.  Hard to tell, but the pattern and symptoms are all too familiar to me.  Also, don't get too hung up on her timeframe...she said an "AVERAGE" of 4 years...but she talks of "long term relationships", and some spouses sit in "limbo" for YEARS...

-T

[in it]

I read Mars/Venus. It was an ok book for it's time.

IMHO The 5 love languages I feel is a better relationship book.
 
The only way I see it may help an existing or new relationship would be for BOTH people to read it and identify to each other what helps them feel loved.