[Shantilly Lace]

This has been coming up in posts lately and others have been there, so lets talk about it.

I have been suicidal twice in my life.
firstly when I was 16 and then scarily it was last year.  even more scary it was in August/September spanning over a few weeks.
I am not ashamed of it although many people are and that is fine I can understand why.
I was lucky the first time a very insistent voice in my  head stopped me, it wasn't a loud voice but it was more determined then the others that were crying, screaming and yelling in my head.

the second time I was actually more determined.  I was even luckier because during the time I was seriously contemplating it things kept happening that took the focus away from me.  I honestly believeI was being protected.  What happened?
my girls got sick, one after another they got sick, terrible vomitting and diarrohea.  All 5 one a week, just as one would get better another went down hill.

i remember sobbing because I just wanted the pain to end and I couldn't do it, I couldn't do it to my girls who needed me so much, that cried out for me while sick, and I was exhausted from having to deal with them.  I sat out by front gate and howled outmy grief and hurt and the desire to just give up was so overwhelming and then a cry from inside would have me drying my tears and going inside to tend them.
Towards the end a person with whom I had sought earlier counselling (and he was on the other side of the world) phoned me to "check up" and it all spilled out.  He was able to help me through this terrible time and I worked through the emotioins that threatened to overwhelm me, that I thought if I felt would kill me.  The pain, the hurt all of it.

MOST people who are serious about suicide will not talk about it.  You may not even know they were depressed becasue they hide it let alone in so much painthe idea of ending it is a relief.  They are also ashamed as it may be seen as weak, and really who wants to be looked at and pitied?  they should be able to cope, they should be able to let go.  Should, should, should that word is a monster.

What does happen is you think about it. 
You go through verious scenarios in your head of HOW you will do it.  If you have life insurance you may not want them to know it was suicide and so you think about howyou can do itto look like an accident.  You may not want your family wearing the burden so yep an accident is the way to go.  You may not want your family to find you looking like you died a painful death so you look at pills so you can just go to sleep.  the reasons people vary and many will never be known as inside your mind is your own reason.

You think about WHEN, if you are serious you don't want to be stopped or discovered too soon.  you don't want to be rescued.  you want to just reach peace.

The thing is when you decide to go about it and the details are sorted, you feel at peace, you may even feel happier and lighter  and less burdened.
It is actually known, people will say but they seemed happier more recently.

they are.  it is such a relief.

So if your MLCer says I thought about it, take note.  Contact a family member or friend and tell them.  Your MLCer will get mad.  Too bad.  I would rather them alive and mad then dead and gone.

The good news is if they mentioned it they are most probably overthe worst of it.

If they continue to mention it, it is a powerplay and they are using it to control you.  you disagree they will straight away say if you don't I will... or, It's no use I will...
There are many other ways of saying it or intimating it.  and it may not be straight away it may be a little later BUT if they continue to say it then you know you have a controller.

When my H found out I had contacted his family in regards to him thinking about it (after the fact) he was furious, "How can I trust you", "how dare you" real monster spew.
My answer was simple "I would rather have you alive hating me then dead.  If i said the samething you would have done the same."  Didn't argue, didn't say anything else  just wore the rest of his spew.  A few weeks later he had calmed down and understood.

Now here's the crunch as much as you would like to think otherwise, NO ONE and NOTHING you do will stop it.  That is only within the person and God.
It is not your fault, you have no control, you can't stop it.  No matter how much you think you could you can't.  And this fact alone is the hardest to swallow.

If I had loved them enough, if i had shown them more, it doesn't work that way.

If you feel yourself spiralling, talk to someone not necessarily anyone you know.  You may not want people you know to know this about you.  That is a normal feeling.  Pick up the phone and phone a help line.
Get online and talk.

PM someone here.
As impossible as it sounds at the time it can be gotten through and the pain will subside.

All right one last thing,
if you have questions you can PM me if you wish.  I will talk.
I am good at that.

[xyzcf]

Sharing this Shantilly must have brought up some deep and disturbing feelings and thoughts. I get why you did it though..thanks for always sharing your experiences..thank God you did not succeed.

[hopingfourbetter]

Good post and very good insight. I must say this had to be tough to say, Glad you are willing to talk to others about it. Hfb

[Shantilly Lace]

Thanks Xyz and Hfb

Actually now, it doesn't hurt to talk about it, nor am I ahsamed any longer.  Which tells me in itself I have moved through those demons.  And if it helps one person then it is the best thing I will have ever done (aside from my girls).
I'm pretty happy to be here too 

[Buggy31]

I find this very interesting.  I can't ever imagine what if might feel like to want to end life how much pain you must be in.  I do remember a moment in the shower once I believe where I was overwhelmed and a thought flashed but it never grabbed hold...it scared me and I have a strong memory of that moment...as I glanced over at a razor...yikes..and I've never had it again.

I just am very interested as to why as humans we are so AFRAID of FEELING emotional pain.  I am sure it is a combination of a variety of things but I am just starting to recognize this in myself...how feeling negative or painful emotion involves a very keen awareness.  We do so much damage to ourselves and our R by avoiding this pain.  I've started to go INTO this pain deeply in the last couple weeks and with it I find physical pain..I find crying, memories, flashbacks...pulsing in my stomache (solar plexus), I find tightness in my throat.  I have to take care of myself very much during these moments as it rises...in the same way you would soothe yourself through physical pain.  When I do this I am more clear and present and MORE importantly more compassionate to others pain.  I AM JUST LEARNING THIS RECENTLY.  I have also found I can be more compassionate toward H's pain and avoidance.   

Just some of my thoughts...it's really made me very interested in emotional development.  I think it's probably one of the best given we can give our children.  To teach them and model how to take care of yourself emotionally.  I don't really know what that looks like but I'm starting to get what that FEELS like...maybe we'll get there together.

HUGS
BUGS

[readytofixmyselffirst]

From what I have been told and trained on, they do talk about it and often. Most suicide victims send out strong and serious signs-

1) They talk about death, or sleeping forever
2) They talk about taking a long trip, tell lots of people goodbye
3) Give away items, items of personal significance
4) Tell others that if they are gone, no one will miss them.
5) Withdrawal from many activities that used to please them.
6) Recent setbacks, loss of job, loss of loved one
7) Severe depression, stating that nothing is good and things will never get better

These are the major signs of a potential suicide. My w has talked about going to sleep forever and would be happy with that. However, she is quick to tell me that she is not planning on anything. She is quite aware that if she makes a specific threat, that I could have her hospitalized on the spot.

In our situation, I think that the first few weeks following BD are critical as that is when the LBSer panics and falls apart. Once the LBSer starts to detach and focus on themselves, the danger dissipates. Just my perspective. However, Shantilly is right. If you feel dispair, come on line and talk to someone, reach out for help.

Good Post

[Shantilly Lace]

You see the pain we feel now, links to pain in the past that we havne't dealt with that is why it gets so BIG, weare toldto get over it.
Ignore it, think positive thoughts.  we are not taught to deal with it.  To feel it and release it.

There is nothingwrong with positive thoughts though, don't get me wrong, I think positive thoughts are great and it helps us move through a lot.  the trouble comes when we decide to use positive thoughts to hide away from the pain and ignore issues. 

Emotions evokephysical response.  Human nature
Love = nurture needed for survival of our young
fear = fight or flight
pain = tears
our emotions are physical.  So if we don't like the response to a stimuli then we avoid it.  And so it builds.

So although youmay be responding to your WAS doing something to you, pain from previous hurts come up as well if it hasn't been dealt with properly.

So deal with it, don't let it build up and dig it all out.  Give yourself permission to grieve, be angry and cry, break plates just deal, don't hide it.

[Shantilly Lace]

From what I have been told and trained on, they do talk about it and often. Most suicide victims send out strong and serious signs-

1) They talk about death, or sleeping forever
2) They talk about taking a long trip, tell lots of people goodbye
3) Give away items, items of personal significance
4) Tell others that if they are gone, no one will miss them.
5) Withdrawal from many activities that used to please them.
6) Recent setbacks, loss of job, loss of loved one
7) Severe depression, stating that nothing is good and things will never get better

Yes but they still don't say that they will kill themselves or even that they want to hurt themselves. Even the above indicators show they don't say they are going to do it.  They indicate but not actual threats.  And with me and others I know, I didn't even do the above, I wrote letters to my loved ones.

It helps to be aware of the above but it can still be missed and those left behind have to deal with a huge array of emotions.

[HeartsBlessing]

I just am very interested as to why as humans we are so AFRAID of FEELING emotional pain.

Buggy, all we want is to make pain go AWAY..it is very intense; and it will cloud the mind to the point the pain is ALL that is thought about....and there can come a time when one will do ANYTHING to get rid of the pain that results from life as you knew it, dying on the day you were bombed with things you thought you would never have to deal with.

Shantilly, I've been there, too...I'm unsure if any of the sermons thread I wrote, covered what I went through, as I traversed the path toward suicide, but didn't make it, because the Lord intervened with me that night.

It was about 2 months after I had been bombed, not once, but twice; the night before Thanksgiving; I had had enough of the pain and misery...I was completely rejected, unloved; and I had hit rock bottom.

I had done this once before as a teenager; but had overcome the feelings, back then, but that night; I didn't know if I COULD overcome once again.

So, I sat in the living room, in total darkness, in the wee hours of the morning; and thought about it..knew I had a couple of bottles of leftover pain meds in the kitchen cabinet...figured it all out; I would down the two bottles; then lay down in the other bedroom we had...and no one would find me until, hopefully, it was too late.

As I contemplated these thoughts, a voice came out of nowhere; and asked me "What about your son?"...well, my son was 15 at the time; and of course, he still needed my help...but I wasn't looking at that...yet, the voice persisted in wanting to talk about how this would affect my son for the rest of his life.

NOW, the voice(which I know now, was God), wasn't talking about my MLC spouse; He was targeting my love for my son; and love didn't mean removing myself from my son's life forever.

When I heard this voice; it "blanked" out every other voice I'd been hearing in my head; and this voice was calm, and soothing; but firm...I would have to get out of my pity party; and start living, EVEN if it was only for my son.

The Lord talked, and I listened; and He talked me OFF the ledge that night..there was no one to help me at that time...but He had to have me living in order to be where I am, now...and of course, He KNEW this.

He reminded me that I was loved; EVEN if it wasn't my husband who loved me at the moment; He reminded me of all the people in my life who would be affected by my death.

I remember Him saying suicide wasn't the answer, nor was it a solution..but it would destroy so many in its wake.

I kept listening; and as I calmed down, the subject was turned toward my MLC spouse..and the Lord firmly said that there would come a time when he would love me again; but I needed to help him..and in order to help him; I needed information...with that, I had a purpose once again.

The Lord directed me to the computer; and told me to search for MLC; only He told me to spell it out...that led me to Jim Conway's site; and a wealth of information I'd never seen...and my husband was within what I was reading......

Now, that was then, and this is now...and the road has been a long one since then...it's sufficient to say, I had no more episodes of wanting to commit suicide; I overcame this night; and the Lord was the one who helped me do this.

I've never heard my husband threaten to commit suicide...there were times when he was so deep in depression that I feared for his life; but the Lord did tell me that this was the LAST thing on his mind...he was more thinking of running away where I would never find him...and believe it or not, I was able to LIVE with that .

I'd recognized some of the aspects of the deeply depressed in him; and let my fears run away with me.....I wouldn't have cared if he'd hated me for life; I would have intervened in some way, if he'd spoken of going down that route.

It's possible that he never threatened, because I wouldn't have believed him....I'd always known if someone threatens to take their own life; speaking the words out loud; most of the time, they wouldn't do it.

But I'd sensed from him the disquiet; and passing thoughts of that being possible; and I prayed hard for him.

During my transition; I never had the thought; regardless of how deep I went downward in my own depression...I had already faced that in my husband's MLC; so it didn't come up again.

[Voyager]

Hi SL
Ok I'll poke my head out here, as Shantilly knows because we were in contact I became suicidal 3 weekends ago. I've just realised writing that it was only 3 Friday's ago, it seems like a lifetime ago.
Those that know about my sitch know that things have been grim for some time and i was sliding down into depression. I was very fragile but didn't realise how fragile i was. I have had suicidal thoughts before, but nothing to this point.
On that Friday 21st Jan two things happened which pretty much pushed me over, one was a work related stich not h related the second was the usual Friday night "dumping" e mail from H.
On my way home i decided very logically to end it all. it made perfect sense. In fact it just seemed the best for everyone, me included.
I was a burden to myself and others. I felt there was nothing to keep me here.
I thought that i could do one of two things, either obviously kill myself with pills, or make it look like an "accident" so my kids could collect the insurance.
Only problem with the accident was i might survive.
So pills then and i thought that I would be able to write to the kids in such a way that they would understand and not feel bad.
Yes i know, but we're talking distorted thinking here.
I went on the net to find something which would tell me how to do it in such a way as to be effective. It wasn't very helpful.
I didn't have enough paracetomol to do the job that night so i decided to go out in the morning trawl round various chemists and supermarkets to buy the required amount.
Looking back it was the most dreadful feeling because i was calm, but underneath there was just the deepest despair.

Then miracle number one happened. From out of the blue my S's partner rang me. He told me he had passed me on my way home, he rang because he said i looked really down and he just wanted to check in on me.
I didn't tell him where i really was in myself but said i did feel down. he and my S had booked the weekend away staying Saturday and Sunday night.
He told me that he would book a room for me in the same hotel and i would spend Saturday night with them.
I agreed, I didn't want to, but something made me say yes.
So Saturday was off as far as the suicide went, but i was still thinking along those lines.
Saturday driving over to the hotel i thought about making it look like a car accident but i couldnt do it.
All the time i was with them, part of me was still feeling despairing but i didn't discuss it with either of them.

Sunday night driving home, i did not want to go home, i was overcome with dread because the feelings were still there. i got home and it started up again. I remember just sitting there feeling catatonic really. Then one of my oldest friends rang, miracle number 2. I didn't say anything to her but just having a very brief conversation interrupted my thoughts.
I saw her last night and told her about it, she said that she sensed something was really off and as soon as she put the phone down she prayed for me. I only found that out last night.
As soon as i put the phone down to her i felt differently. Not better but different, i think i posted on here, but i didn't let on the extent of it. Shantilly picked up on it and another forum member.
Then 2 days later my staff member died. It was Shantilly who said that that gave me a preview into how people would feel if i had died.
She was right. From that Sunday i began to turn the corner and felt peace and calm. I let go completely of my fears, i decided i had to just put my faith in God. I felt i had quite literally been saved and that i deserved to live and go on and fulfil my life.
The weekend away with the LBS's helped that process.

I did not want to tell anyone, i planned it out and it made sense. That is when i knew i had gone into a place where if it had not been for my S's partner ringing me, i honestly do not know what i would have done on Saturday.
I am still recovering from the experience and i know that i never want to get there again.

In some ways perhaps i had to go there, i don't know. It's given me a different perspective on my life. I would urge anyone who starts to feel that this makes sense to do something to get them away from where they currently are. Either go stay with someone, pick up the phone, come here and pM. Anything to interrupt the thought process.
Like Shantilly, i am happy to talk to anyone here.
I know that talking to Shantilly made a huge difference, talking is so vital, even if you don't want to. In fact that is the point when you must try really hard to reach out.
Writing this is cathartic, it's helped me to share this and i hope for those of you who feel like this it helps to see you are not alone.
Much love xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx