[gimlan]

I am not on the forum often these days - I have stepped down from my stand and moved on (my XH has now got a child with OW/new partner and even if I stepped down before, to me this is a final dealbreaker for ever reconciling -- how could we ever reconcile without doing more damage to yet another child, and perhaps even our S who are now starting to adjust to the new family formation? What would make me better than OW if we did?). Yet, I found this site immensely helpful, and I am forever grateful for my decision to stand. To me, this was the main advantage of the advice here, even though I think it can also be a pitfall, if not practiced in a way that allows the LBS to detach and do mirror work. I tried to separate the response into the two questions, but didn't manage to, but I hope my response is still a help.

It was now a while since I read your texts, but at the time, I read everything many times. I am interested in psychoanalysis, even though Freud and Lacan speaks more to me. This does not mean that I'm not interested in neurobiology (won't go into it exactly here, but I think precisely the connections between psychoanalysis and neurobiology are interesting). This means that I found it slightly difficult to relate to the Jungian terminology, and felt the need to "translate" it in my head, and relate it to the paradigms that I feel more comfortable with. What it did, however, was that it helped me to find a "narrative" to "think with". I read a lot of other things, and found a very interesting book on midlife crisis from the Lacanian point of view, which I fould helpful, and to a great extent compatible with the perspective on here. I am sometimes ambivalent about the very term MLC, BUT it does help us to pinpoint great similarities between what these spouses seem to be going through, and especially how they react to them. Now, after I have moved on, it doesn't really matter to me whether it "was really" MLC or not - but it helped to see that my XH followed a pattern that many other people also follow, and it still helps me to hold onto the idea that what happened to me was not just simply a "normal divorce" but something more and much more destructive.

Retroactively, I think (like some other people on here) that your focus on what you call mirror work was (and is!!!) the most helpful. This gave me strength to focus on ME, which is the only thing we can do. I had already started to meditate. Took a course in buddhist meditation, and I now consider myself a Buddhist, even if I don't often speak about it openly but try to practice it. It's basically compatible with your perspective: agape/loving-kindness, taking case of oneself not just for the sake of being "selfish" (in the narrow sense of the word) but in order to build mental and emotional capacity to act towards the world and ourselves with compassion, building self-awareness etc. I have also gone to individual councelling (just took it up again with a psychoanalytically trained therapist), which has also been tremendously important for my mirror work. I try to look after myself physically, by excercising, getting rest, seek companionship with friends and build new relationships and just enjoying myself now and then. I have become kinder to myself and others. I think this needs to be the focus, really, especially since this is the one thing that will prepare the LBS for a better life, with or without the MLC:er.   

As I mentioned, I am so, so happy about the concept and practice of standing. Even if I am no longer standing it gave me that opportunity to give myself enough time to focus on myself and my mirror work and not making any premature decisions (if I hadn't, I could easily have entered into a rebound relationship, which would have been destructive when I was still in crisis). Also, I can look back and KNOW that I did everything I possibly could to keep the relationship intact. This means that I can honestly tell myself (or my son) that I could not have done anything more. This makes me feel calm about what happened, and free to live my life here and now without having to wonder what could have happened if I had "tried harder".  I worry sometimes that standing can be practiced without mirror work, that it can then prevent the LBS from moving ahead with his or her life. You mention this yourself, I think, the risk of just focussing on the MLC:er, timelines and so on, and just see the stand as a "wait", so this is not absent in your ideas, but as desperate as many of us are initially, there is a risk of getting stuck there.

Oh, and lastly, I'm still slightly curious whether XH will or will not follow the rest of the suggested pattern and "come out of the tunnel" eventually. I'm not sure, and it matters less and less to me, but still curious - and I'll update on here about what happens.

Thanks for a great site, and I hope this helps a tiny bit to answer your questions!

Gimlan x

[OldPilot]

OK this is a great discussion post.

And to start out with I think I have forgotten more than I have learned at this point.
Since every day I post an article or blog post on Hero's Spouse facebook page I have seen most of these articles numerous times.
I am not DGU and do not have them all memorized, but I have read over 30 books
that pertain to the subject and am involved in  HS, DB,MA, MB forums as well as three or four now defunct ones.

So my definition of the causes of an MLC are this.

MLC is kind of like the perfect storm. Everything falls into place, all the wrong things happen at once. Look at the parts that make up a MLC. Hormones out of wack, depression, death or trauma of someone close to the MLC'er. Transition time in life. Something went wrong in their childhood that they never resolved. Their inner child and outer child are at odds with each other.

This then causing the MLC'er to begin a search for what went wrong in their life and possibly a desire to FIX themselves.(eventually)

So I do agree with Anjae that their is a lot of science involved in MLC, along with FOO, genetics, and other witches brew factors.

I think my thoughts fairly well follow RCR's definitions from the articles.

Standing has also been thought of as a GRACE time period to sort out the LBS's
life before they continue to move forward with the rest of it.

I think that the 2-7 year or 3-7 year time period that is alloted by the articles is WAY too short but I understand the reasoning that you would prefer not to scare people away right off the bat.

I did not learn about MLC here but mostly on the DB forum from Snodderly, Hearts blessing and other younger posters.
RCR also started out in the same place and I certainly read a lot of her advice that was then posted there.

A lot of the older advice there is now purged so going back to re-read it is difficult if not impossible.
The good thing is we have a lot of it on this forum now.

I have gone back this morning to try to refresh my memory and some things stand out

Understand, also, this journey must continue to made alone, no one can "fix" it or "do it for them."

Another gem

They are still secretive, somewhat asserting their privacy, much like a teen-ager, but during this time, they must be gently but firmly led along, and only when the time is right-a wrong word at the wrong time will cause them to "stick" within the tunnel.

Now what does leading them mean?
And what does getting stuck mean?

My understanding and I have seen it in myself is that sometimes a cycle can start and be repeated over and over again until it is broken.

So if this happens is the crisis prolonged?

Do we influence the crisis.
Well- yes and no, I think by NOT detaching and not working on ourselves
we can continue the cyucles that are repeated over and over again.

Finally

They will have learned many things concerning life, and will be changed permanently as they will NEVER be the same, ever again.

I think this applies to both the MLC'er and the LBS
Life will change - you can not go back to the way it was before and everything
will permanently change and NEVER be the same.

SO I am not sure if it answered the question but it did spark me into a little review.
Thanks for asking.

[Mitzpah]

 

Somehow, I feel as if I am in school and need to get get good marks on the test

I agree with OP, maybe I have forgotten more than I have learned!

Simply put:

I learnt about MLC from this site, from RCR's articles and coaching.

I quickly put two and two together and discovered that my FIL had a MLC too, so I am very squarely in the camp of those who believe that FOO issues are very relevant to my h's crisis. I am also interested in brain functioning (a son who had brain cancer) and  neuroscience.

The mirror work articles helped me to curb my reactive attitudes and reminded me to forgive always.

My choice is standing for my marriage and for my husband, I have found mostly support for my choice  here and I appreciate the perspectives of other long time standers.

Like others have pointed out, the time this is taking is very daunting and I suppose that those who do not have a faith based approach to standing might become quite discouraged when we see no evidence of our spouses returning/coming out of their tunnels at 4, 5, 6 years and even more. I am a little leery of saying that I 'trust the process' or that 'in the end, the LBS gets to choose'. I don't see it like that from where I am. Perhaps the 'process' part will work itself out, however, I fail to see where I really get a choice - I get a choice in how I respond, in my attitude towards things, in how I conduct my life.

I would like a restored marriage and I don't get a choice there - I can do my part, be still, get on with my life, be responsible in my actions, not pursue, whatever... In fact, I have learnt here, that there is practically nothing I can do that will make any difference and I can do all the opposite of the above and it will make no difference except maybe extend his crisis (God forbid!). The choice I have is how I deal with what has happened to my family, how I make the best of a disaster, the choice to trust God entirely even when I don't understand.

Just my musings of where I am and what I understand of MLC.

My 'strength' in standing does not come from understanding MLC but in my trust in God.

I am curious and I like to know 'how things work', that is my nature - this site and RCR's articles have been instrumental in this.

[trusting]

Simply put, I believe MLC is a severe crisis of identity.  I believe it is rooted in childhood and FOO issues, but there must be something more to it than that to cause some people with childhood wounding to be fine at midlife and others to go crazy and turn their worlds upside down.  I agree that 3-7 years seems conservative at this point from what I have observed. 

I do not believe we caused their crisis or contributed to it.  I think it would have happened no matter who they were married to.  Therefore, I don't think we can change their crisis.  It is their journey to navigate, and they choose to do so without us.  We have our own journeys to travel.  If it were a marriage issue, so many of them would not walk away from parenting, cut ties to other people, and destroy finances. 

I do think that the best thing we can do is step out of the way, live our lives the best we can for ourselves and our kids (if we have them), and choose joy.  Let them have their crises.  They are going to whether we want them to or not.

[Velika]

I know this isn't a debate about whether MLC is neurological or not, but I did want to mention that long-term cases, and especially those that get progressively worse, may not be MLC but behavior variant frontotemporal lobe dementia. Much of what we see here on this forum (lack of empathy, hypersexual behavior) is an early side effect.

Just thought I would offer that to anyone who has been experiencing this for many years. Here is the link: http://www.theaftd.org/understandingftd/disorders/bv-ftd

(Update apparently it is fatal, so unlikely that this is what it is. However, it seems to match quite closely.)

[gimlan]

I think this is a really interesting thread! I agree with Mitzpah that faith probably a big difference with regards to stand for the long term or not. I believe in commitment, mature love and growing together, and I know for sure that it would have been better for my son not having to live through H's crisis and our separation, so up until a certain point it was worth standing (in terms of trying to remain married, but because my marriage was never based on any theistic belief, when a certain point was crossed, it no longer made sense for me to stand. I felt that while I never had the choice in the sense of making him come back, it was empowering to have the choice whether to stand or not, regardless of his decision. It will always have been his decision to leave, but it was my choice whether to remain committed to our marriage and family, if that makes sense. Sorry, don't mean to hijack the thread.

Hugs, Gx

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I was raised Catholic, married in a Protestant church, then renewed our vows 7 years later in the Catholic church. In the eyes of the Catholic church it doesn't matter what happens in divorce court, my wife and I will still be married. I take some comfort from that and agree that it probably does make standing easier. OTOH, knowing there is no alternative to being alone or reconciling may make acceptance and/or letting go more difficult.

[osb]

Thank you kindly for this thread, it's a wonderful review. I think before I saw this website, my blurry knee-jerk impression of MLC was fast cars, faster women, a punchline to a bad joke. Then my H came home from a climbing trip raging like the sasquatch... and suddenly I had some frantic reading to do. Found Laura Munson's article in the New York Times, and somehow bounced from there to here. RCR, I found your articles a mind-opener.

I have a medical background, used to work in family psych - and at BD, everything I observed about my H screamed mental health issue in bold caps. So perhaps it's confirmation bias, but I tend to accept the neuropsychological etiology of MLC. But that doesn't negate accepting the philosophical etiology (we are after all a bag o' biochemistry that thinks, and that uses metaphor to understand our own thinking organ), the philosophical explanation made it possible for me to comprehend the fracture with identity/reality that is MLC.

The parts of your essays that I read (and practiced) most often early along were the Paving the Way bits (admittedly, for all the wrong reasons - if I did the right thing, I thought, my H would see me again and just fix himself! Um, no...). The parts I understood least were about Mirror Work - lots there, but no prescriptions - felt like yelling at the mirror "But what do you want me to do??"  Eventually I realized that the lack of prescriptives in that essay permitted me to find my own answers; that was a zen master trick, RCR. The most practically useful essays for me were on Detachment - that instruction was a lifeline, and possibly literally saved my life when my stay-at-home MLCer was escalating dangerously. I learned to efface myself, and take myself (at least virtually) out of the room. This is not too different from what Al-Anon teaches to people living with an addict; but placed into the philosophical context of MLC, I understood the reason for it.

In the end, my H acted like he'd read the dang book - staggered through his MLC along the shortest likely timeline, managed not to shame himself completely out of attempting a return, and then showed up like a bad penny in hope that I'd simply not mention the last three years. I'm very clear in feeling the end of his MLC was by no means a vindication of my Standing, nor of my mirror work - it's just luck, which may turn again if a bad breeze blows though my H's head. Or through my own; lord knows I still have work to do.

Where I admit I have difficulty is on the issue of the LBS's role in precipitating the MLC. This question has been a source of friction on the board as well, I think. I truly don't believe anything I did caused my H to dive down "the U-bend of life". I don't at all feel comfortable thinking he returned because I changed something about myself that had contributed to a problem in our marriage. If there's blame or shame in this journey, it's not mine (because it wasn't my journey?). Maybe I'm being recalcitrant, and unwilling to accept my responsibility. I'd be open to a better understanding of this. But perhaps there are existing articles that I haven't read, that address this question?

[MyBrainIsBroken]

I think the articles that helped me the most were the articles about the relationship with the alienator.  I needed reassurance that it wasn't really true love and my wife hadn't really found her soulmate. I also needed help understanding how she could choose to leave me for an immoral, degenerate lowlife with a history of failed relationships. I can understand the identity crisis and all of that, I experienced that myself, but the affair relationship moves this into a different dimension.

[Mermaid]

I'm the heretic here.

I know this isn't a scientific forum, and much of what is written is based on belief, conjecture, interpretation. People have the right to their beliefs, and if it helps to cope with the shock and trauma of the spousal crisis, then perhaps there isn't any harm in this.

Where it can be harmful is when the beliefs about the nature of  MLC holds LBS to a false hope, and stops them moving forward. Some of the beliefs are based on just one book, with no scientific backing at all

There is no scientific basis which connects the varieties of behaviour exhibited by the spouses here, no one single "MLC", no one single cause and no one single solution. There is no process to follow. The idea of a tunnel is a euphemism for an inability to see around. I suggest we all go through tunnels periodically. Moreover, our rationality is typically very limited at most times.

Yes, there are crises, plural (ours and theirs), and there are better and worse ways of dealing with them. That's the beauty of this forum.

Identity, trauma, PD, depression (but seriously! Not ft dementia!), many explanations, not one. There are many academic papers dismissing the notion of a MLC. There are crises, but affect only 10% of American men, less in other cultures.

However, their does seem to be a U-curve for happiness, in which happiness declines from the 20s, reaches its lowest point in the 40s or 50s, then increases. This is true across cultures, genders, and even for apes. This is not the same as MLC, but perhaps this emotional low is the trigger for some people who have other issues to resolve.