[Did your MLC'er suffer from childhood abuse (physically, emotionally or other)?]

Did your MLC'er suffer from childhood abuse (physically, emotionally or other)?

Yes

65 (70.7%)

No

17 (18.5%)

Don't Know

10 (10.9%)

Total Members Voted: 92

[Anjae]

Yes, hormones are chemicals. Yes, unbalanced hormones cause many problems. Thyroid, for example.

I am not sold on the hormones on midlife being the main reason for MLC. It could be, but If dropping hormones is the cause, how can MLCers have so much energy? One of my problems with peri-menopause was (now it is better) the lack of energy. Lack of testosterone brings depression, tiredness, less energy, etc. Yet, High Energy MLCers are on high speed. Wallowers have overt depression and don't have the energy for crazy MCL things.

To my knowledge in my country there has not been defenses based on menopause or andropause, our system is very different from the American, or even the UK one. In theory, someone with their hormones, or other chemicals, messed up could murder someone and that being the reason, that is, the hormonal/chemical changes affecting the person reasoning.

If the medical profession thought MLC existed it would have been in the DSM by now ...

Maybe, maybe not. The medical community isn't always on things and MLC may be something they don't want on DMS or the European equivalent. Doctors have MLC and they may not be open to the idea.

We know many things that exist were not on medical manuals for years.

And we can recognise MLC without much, or any trouble. Therefore there are identifiable patters and behaviours. There are many types of depression. Post-partum one wasn't a thing until it was, etc. Who knows if one day MLC will not be seen as one more type of depression? Each type is depression, but there are differences between them.

Another thing no one mentions, or hardly mentions, vitamins and minerals. It may be a lack of those, or a lack of those may make things worst. I am fairly certain all MLCers don't have good levels of those. The depression and their lifestyle alone would erode them.

[Jackolar12]

Thanks RT2, supports always welcome. I did mention heterosexual female/male hormones to try and make it more palatable for everyone but I guess you can’t please everyone.

 I’m finding a lot of links between hormone driven behaviours and the alleged MLC phenomena. It’s an interesting debate. Would you be able to guide me with how to reply without quoting as I’m a bit of a technifobe and I can’t always find a reply button at the bottom of replies as I did with yours. I will check out the link you sent and the books as it’s an area of great interest to me. Always a pleasure to hear from you R2T.

[Anjae]

There isn't a reply button on every post. Only below the last one, so that a new one can be made. That is why you saw it on Ready2's post.

If you want to bring something someone said verbatim without quote, copy and paste inside " " and mention who said it.

[Treasur]

It is an interesting article Anjae...I suppose what is puzzling is why MLC does not seem to be changed much even if our spouses are on some of these medications...what is missing from the neurotransmitter picture...

[Jackolar12]

Thanks Anjae, I’m a butter fingers with technology you see. So just use the bottom button and copy and paste in this box sounds good to me.

Fluctuating levels of hormones Angae like the waves on the sea peaking ( lotta energy crazy behaviours) and troughing (tired and more normal) a real Jeckle and Hyde scenario.

I’ve been talking to many women and some men as they are more shy to reveal their problems about their shifting hormones and many feel they could cheerfully dispatch their loving spouse at times during this phase of life. Several have stated the character changes in their loved ones which is similar to MLC.

I totally agree hormones have a major impact on our lives and appreciate not all will agree with my point of view. I feel the study of hormonal fluctuations and behaviour could give us a better insight into what we now call MLC and would welcome responses from people who have gone through this phenomenon and with hindsight can link it with hormonal activity.

[Anjae]

I hadn't read the article yet, Treasur, I was replying to Jack.

Now I have. The article is from 2002. All the neuroscience/neurobiology courses I did were more recent than it by many years. The way things are seen have changed, and keeps changing.

Neurotransmitters are interesting, but there is far more to the brain and depression that them. Keep using meds like SSRI, that target serotoing and don't work for 50% of those they are given and the ones who do most will need them again is not good.

You see, a psychiatrist does not have a clue what is, or is not, missing/high/low. They don't aks for tests. Or most of them don't. They give you med, one size fits almost all. Some may give an atypical antidepressant, like Bupropion (Elontril/Wellbutrin, etc). It targets dopamine and norepinephrine, not serotinine. If the problem is not dopamine or norepinephrine it will not do a thing.

Year before MLC, Mr J had depression as a consequence of burnout. He was given fluoxetine (Prozac). It literally drove him mad and made in angry, very angry. By then, he was aware enough, talked to doctors who remove the med. I think that is the reason why he refused to see a doctor when his MLC depression come. Remember he said he was depressed. He was afraid of the meds because he had a terrible experience with them.

As a general rule, psychiatrists work in the dark and perscribe what they think will work. It does not mean it will. And often it does not, and can even make matters worst.

What is missing in our spouses from a neurotransmitter picture? I don't know. I don't even know if it is a neurotransmitters problem. Since many MLCers that are given anti-depressants, usually SSRIS have such bad reactions to them, I would say the problem is not the neurotransmitters. Or just not the neurotransmiters. Or it may be one that is not being target by the meds.

The current ways of treating depression aren't effective. I would say that for MLCers a mood stabilizer would make more sense than an anti-depressant. High energy MLC mimics bipolar, mood stabilizers work for bipolar.

But what if the matter can be solved with vitamins and mineral? Or what it the problem is with the electrical rather than chemical part of neurotransmition? What if it is the pre-frontal cortex, as a few here think? What if is is several brain and other things?

You're welcome, Jack.

I’ve been talking to many women and some men as they are more shy to reveal their problems about their shifting hormones and many feel they could cheerfully dispatch their loving spouse at times during this phase of life. Several have stated the character changes in their loved ones which is similar to MLC.

My real life experience with MLCer, my cousin included, is different. For them it was age, including Mr J and my cousin who were 36 and 37 and BD. Old, right.  They thought they were missing out and had to do things "now". Mr J had left over 12 years ago and remain in his MLC life. My cousin was a wallower and never went anywhere. He did nothing to his homones and now that he is nearly 50 he has much more energy.

I have no idea what changed other than he hitting rock bottom in Summer 2018, went to see a friend of mine who is a psychiatrist and was able to help him.

I fully agree hormones have a major impact on our lives. I am just not certain they are the cause or MLC. Or the case for most/many MLCers.

They don't seem to do a thing to their hormones, yet they become normal again. We really don't know since we have no tests. Testing MLCers, now, that is a challange. 

[Jackolar12]

Yes Anjae, trying to test them would be quite the experience and no doubt why studies have not taken place. Growing older is a natural process for most people and can’t be prevented The ones that fear aging and rebel against it with MLC behaviours could be fuelled by surging hormones which eventually settle down and could effect high energy as well as wallowers who channel their energies differently.

It might also explain why many can’t remember their actions and behaviours during this time as their brain chemistry could be in an altered state. The settling of these imbalances could be linked to the awakening in some and the continued untreated surges might explain why some remain in MLC. Again just my take on things.

Well folks it’s almost my bed time in cold wet United Kingdom and I wish you all a good day/night according to your locations.
Jackolar 12

[Anjae]

Poor doctors if they tried to tests MLCers. 

Yes, growing old is normal. They could be fueled by hormones, but other brain and body chemicals, by electrical brain problems, by something else or by a combination of things.

We only see the depression, overt or covert, and the behaviours.

Regarless of the cause/causes their brains are in an altered state, depression of any type alone alters the brain. Of that there is no doubt.

They could run out of something essencial for Replay, for example, whatever that thing may be. And if there is a thing, or things, it may even differ from MLCer to MLCer.

When you have the time you may want to read our many threads on neuroscience/neurobilogy, etc. There are lots of interesting things there.

Have a good night, Jack.

[Helpingme!]

R2T
That's a good article you shared.
That actually fits my W pretty good.  The low serotonin. 
Funny it mentioned MLC too. Is it all of it??? IDK. But it dang sure could be a factor.

That's my main question. Let a say it was.
How do you talk and get their crazy self to he see a doctor???
I read to where people that were abused as children have lower serotonin levels later on. Women on birth control pills have lower serotonin also. More depression.
Also said levels are lower when less sum is out. Vitamin D is low.
Makes alot of sense with my W.
 

[Anjae]

How do you talk and get their crazy self to he see a doctor???

As a general rule, you don't. And when they go see a doctor is does not seem to work or go well at all.

Ready2's husband saw a doctor that diagnosed him with bipolar and gave him SSRI, an anti-depressant for serotonine. It only made things worst.

My cousin who had MLC, before hit rock bottom saw countless therapists and psychiatrist. The psychiatrists diagnosed him with every mental illness in the book and gave him meds for all those illnesses he didn't had. At a point, because of the meds, he tried to kill himself.

There are several stories on HS how taking a MLCer to a doctor or therapist before they hit rock bottom/are ready for it does not work and often only makes matters worst.