[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

Hi, new here and I think my husband is having a MLC but I'm not sure. Would be interested to hear opnions. I'll try to sketch a timeline of what I think may be relevant.

My husband (46) and me (38) have been together for 20 years, 17 of which married. We have three kids together, aged 2, 6 and 9.
From the start of our relationship we have been inseparable, so much so that it sometimes annoyed people that we always came as a package deal!
With the three kids and both of us working, our life got very busy in the last few years, which my husband didn't like at all. He complained regularly how busy our schedule is, and how little time for himself he had. I think this mostly started after covid lockdowns were over. During the lockdowns, we actually had a very relaxing time with the family. By the time lockdowns were over, both of us had gotten new jobs that demanded more of us. Especially now had a managerial role, which gave him a lot of stess. Around dec '22 he ended up sitting at home with stress-related issues (no official burnout diagnosis) for about 3 months, then returned to work in his old role which was a lot less stressful. He said he would look for a different job from there and had all sorts of wild plans, but never actually did look for something else.
During this time, and afterwards, I often noticed he was a bit down, he was always tired and grumpy and less patient with the kids. Whenever I asked him about it, he said he was just tired, and he needed more sleep. He assured me there was nothing wrong. I always assumed it was the stress from work and the busy family life and that it would get better as the kids got older.
End of October '23 I got the bomb drop. He told me he couldn't continue like this any longer, and that he wants a divorce. This came as a complete shock to me. He never once said he had a problem or that he had doubts. We even had talks the week before about making more time for each other!
The first few weeks I was in utter shock, I tried talking into him that we can work on this, whatever it is, but I quickly noticed this was only pushing him away more. So I changed my tactics to simply asking questions and listening without judgement. This made him open up, and we have had several conversations about how he is feeling and what is going on. Some of the things he has said:
- he no longer knows who he is or what he wants
- he has lived the last 10 or so years doing things because they were expected of him (in his mind), not because he wanted those things
- he tried talking about issues early in our relationship but found the talks so frustrating that he just stopped sharing things (this sounds like he's blaming me for him not telling me anything earlier?)
- he no longer feels anything at all, everything is 'comfortably numb'
- he no longer enjoys the two older kids, the youngest one does still gives him joy
- he is no longer in love with me, but he doesn't want me out of his life, I'm still his 'best buddy'
- he still wants to have the kids, but no more than half the time, the times he doesn't have the kids he doesn't want to take anything or anyone into account and be free to do whatever he pleases.
- whenever he has the kids I'm always welcome to join him. He also would love to still do things as a family and go on holidays together
- he has feelings for someone else but hasn't acted on it yet, nor does he plan to. He doesn't want a relationship at the moment, he wants nothing
- when he has a place for himself, he expects to go after another woman immediately
- he doesn't want to try and fix our marriage out of self protection, he's terrified of slipping back to the place he is running from

When he first dropped the bomb, he said he was already looking for a place of his own and wanted to move out asap. I asked him to please slow down, which he reluctantly accepted. 3 months later he is still living at home, still sleeping in the same bed and the kids still don't know anything. He is now looking for a place of his own again, he says he plans to stay there 2 or 3 days a week so he can 'work on himself'. He is still adamant that we should get a divorce, but he's not in a hurry to push it through. He sometimes says he will find a therapist to help him with his issues, then he goes back to saying he needs to just have his own place and stare at a blank wall for a few days to let all the feelings wash over him.

He has been very friendly and nice to me the past months, almost like nothing has changed. At the same time he seems very confused with how this is affecting me. He seems to think he can just drop the bomb and from there continue being just good friends, and I would be over it in a few days?

A lot of the things he says sound like depression and/or MLC to me, but the thing is I keep reading MLC'ers don't look inward and only blame others during this replay phase. Although he is clearly running from his feelings by wanting a divorce and moving out partly, he also says it's not my fault, it's him. He also sees that he needs help with his issues (although he's scared to actually do so), he even recognizes that he is rewriting history in his mind, and now looks at things very differently than he did a few years ago.

Could it be that he is already going towards dealing with his issues? That would be very soon if it's MLC. It's also weird that he seems to see all of those things but still think he needs to divorce to feel better.

[KayDee]

Welcome with a group hug KC.

The first 12 months are the most crushing, so I hope you are looking after yourself. There are wiser owls than me here that will give you some great input, but I wanted to respond about your query regarding you H's insights and lack of blame throwing. I can say the same about my H. He has said it is him, he knows he is 'going through something' - in fact, he knows it all really (and has also said he doesn't know why he is doing IT), but then he goes and does IT again. IT being the kinda random, crazy, running away things people in this kind of depressive crisis do. It makes no sense really, and I have given up trying to figure it out, or have any expectations of him for now. All I think I know is that his compulsion to run is much, much stronger than confronting the issues that cause the depression.  I read your list of things he said and could tick off most of those in my situation. Others will likely say the same. So, yes to depression, yes to crisis. No to being able to fix it though. Sorry.

I don't think it is uncommon for the crisis person to want to be buddies (hands up from over here) and want their spouse to still comfort them when they need said buddy. But, IMO it is very hard to even get back on your feet, let alone function well, if you have this kind of yo-you behaviour. You may find you spend more time worrying about them than you do ANYTHING ELSE and that takes a toll in the end. And it still won't change much or make sense. IMO letting the crisis person go completely is best for one's healing and allows the crisis person the space to see their own landscape (which often ends up bleak and lonely from what I have read). That often means them moving out. It is not uncommon and not as devastating as it seems, IMO. From my experience, I didn't realize the effect that living with a depressed person was having on me until he left. I grieve for my marriage, but in many ways I feel lighter. I hope that my H can heal himself and I know that is his journey to take. You will hear this again and again. It is true. So is the mantra 'MLC gets worse before it gets better', prepare for the fact that there is likely OW (aka the CEO of the Escape Committee). It is sadly predicable and yes, a symptom in the search for feeling something. If not OW, it will be some other high.

Take care KC.

[WHY]

Im so sorry you're going through this.  Mine also showed no monster in the beginning and said I was her best friend around bomb drop.  It also left me a bit confused given what I'd read about MLC. 

Fast forward 6 months later and she was a completely different human being.  With anger and outright hatred towards me.  Feeling justified when inflicting maximum pain. 

They will cycle and change.  But it gets a lot worse before it gets better (and I think the better part is actually more about LBS healing vs MLCer improvement). 

You're in the right place.  You will find incredible support here.  You will get through this.   

[MadLuv]

So very sorry to see you here. but so glad you found this as it will be a great form of information and comfort. Your H sounds a lot like mine did at BD. He was still kind. Seemed to realize something was wrong with him. Felt nothing for myself or our adult kids, but seemed to enjoy grandson 7 a little. It is all depression, but I will say that OW/OM dont know them before the place they find themselves, so they can be who ever they want with them and “escape” the reality of the situation.

This is all a very scary place to be as there is nothing you can do and the more you try to help the more you will push them away. If he has an attraction know that it is very possibly that he has in fact acted on those. My now XH ( divorced him in 90 days to protect myself financially ) I thought was the sweetest man on earth. In the 3 years since ehe has left I can not believe what he had been up to to escape his pain and continues to now.

See a lawyer immediately. Get advice on  what you should do to protect yourself and your kids financially. It’s a horrible thing yo have to do, but they are not in their right minds and even with my divorce my XH has went through 100’s of thousand of dollars. Hasn’t seen his kids or grandson 2 years, was fired from his high executive job.  This after being a loving father for 30 years.

Keep journalling and telling your story. It truky helps to know you are not alone.

[titleholder]

So sorry to see you here and it must be really difficult with 3 young kids in the mix. I nodded along with all the points your husband said to you. It's scary but my xH said the exact same things to me.

I'm two years into this mess and the only thing I can say is that it does get better, but maybe not in the outcome you're hoping for right now. The advice that is given here to focus on yourself and your kids is an advice I adopted early in my journey and it's a decision that I never regretted. Your husband is very lost right now and probably will be for quite some time. Do everything you can to protect your own and your kids stability because if you're not carefull they tend to drag you down with them.

You're not alone here and you can always ask for help and advice! Hugs.

[FaithWalker]

Yes, eerily similar to what most of us have been told.

Sorry that you have to be here, but you are in good company!

Keep posting to your story and we are here for you.  Sending virtual (((hugs)))

[Ready2Transform]

Could it be that he is already going towards dealing with his issues? That would be very soon if it's MLC. It's also weird that he seems to see all of those things but still think he needs to divorce to feel better.

As everyone else has said, this is a common cycling pattern at the beginning of a spouse's MLC. Unfortunately, he will likely not be out of this anytime soon. As others have said, get some legal advice, protect your finances, and put anything to do with you and your kids' security and well-being above and beyond whatever is going on with him.

Even though it feels like a scary psychotic episode, it's not that bad. But it's more than just a bump in the road. Since there is a "someone else" already in the mix, it's important to take care of all of the financial and security-related aspects of this (even though it is terribly uncomfortable - we all get it) while he is agreeable, and she is not part of the decision-making team, if you catch my drift. These alienators get claws in, and it changes things. Your kids need to be shielded from that, and you're the sane parent right now (maybe forever). I'm not trying to be bleak, but I ended up bankrupt and almost lost my home and business, because I put a lot of faith in him "coming out of this." I don't want anyone else to go through those kinds of fears. MLC is enough!

[thissucks7788]

I'm so sorry that you're here.  It is truly one of the worst things to go through.  You're in the right group and you will get lots of support here.

 One thing that stood out to me was where he told you-- that he has feelings for someone else but hasn't acted on it.  This.  In my belief THIS is what made him "pull the trigger" on this thing.  Not saying that he wasn't going through something and stressed etc...but this is usually when they *really* decide that they are so unhappy and want to move on.  Then, they have to reason with themselves that the marriage wasn't really that good and re-write history to explain how they are leaving a long term marriage with kids.  Also as a side note, you don't need to leave your marriage and move out of the house to "work on yourself".  But anyway-

My H was having an EA and I discovered it through texts and when confronted well, first he lied and than decided he is leaving.  I, like you, saw that trying to logically talk about it was of zero use as he was cold and I could tell that my feelings/opinions held no sway.  So I took a different approach (I'm not saying you should do this, this is just what I did).  I told him that if he feels that way about someone else than I agree that he should move out.  I helped him find an apartment- because, I thought I would never heal with him in the house especially if he is courting some other woman.   He also wanted to be "best friends".  I told him that once he leaves, he is dead to me.  Also I wouldn't want to be friends with someone who treated me this way.  (Again, everyone has a different take about this-- this was my preferred way).   Once he left, I cried rivers, couldn't eat and felt like I was living in the Twilight Zone.  I was in total shock and thought we had a great marriage. Any problem was news to me.  So, I focused on myself, found a new job, took up old hobbies and made new friends.  When he did reach out (business/child) I was pleasant but short.

Anyway, he did ask to return home 5 months later.  Turns out the grass was not greener and the "reasons" he had for wanting to leave our marriage were not a problem anymore.  We took it slow and "dated" for 2 months before I let him move back home. Now I have no idea if this was a MLC or just a transition.  Perhaps he could do it again in the future.  But H had just turned 50 and the "woman" was a 20 year old, so there was some midlife things going on. 

Point is-- I say totally detach, let him play out his fantasy so you're not a barrier and completely take care of yourself and your kids.  Make sure finances are secure for you as MLCers can be destructive.  Have a consult with a lawyer just in case and see where you stand.  You don't have to do anything with this but a good idea to just do.  Get support here and irl.  Also sending you lots of hugs --it is so tough.
B

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

Thanks all for your kind words. Yes, I've been trying to detach but it's so hard when he's still living here and most of the time pretending like everything is ok .

Yesterday we had another chat, and he mentioned that he actually prefers the numbness of not feeling anything, because when he does allow his feelings through, he is overwhelmed by fear of just about everything; fear of being alone, fear of not feeling better when he lives on his own, fear of losing the kids, fear of never getting out of this... it's so difficult to see him sometimes so close to realizing how bad of a place he is in, only to then see him shut down again behind his walls and pretending he's fine.
He said he wants to discuss tonight how to split up days once he has a place of his own (which days will he be home for the kids, which days can he go to his own place), but I think I will suggest that he first takes a few weeks or months away completely to work through his own issues. I'm not sure he will agree, but I would feel a lot better if he did. Not only for my own sake of not having to be around him all the time, but also for the kids. I really want them to still have their dad, they need him. But I want that person to be their actual dad who cares for them, not a walking zombie with no empathy or feelings.

I also said to him yesterday that I will plan a vacation with the kids for the summer, that I won't take him into account but that he would be welcome to join if he wants. Now I'm not so sure if I would really want that though. I've come to realize how much of a toll his depression has been taking on me in the past years already, without me really noticing what was happening. Any activity I planned was always welcomed with a grumpy comment about his life being too busy, or he would agree to join and then sabotage the day completely (like trying to get us to leave early and not being grumpy about any change of plans that were not his idea), and I always felt like walking on egg shells when I had to announce my family suggested a get-together. It would probably spoil much of my holiday feeling if he were there being grumpy about everything.

One good thing that came out of yesterday though: I told him that I want to try and keep the house when he leaves, and he said he also would like that. He sees it as the kids'home, and would not want them to have to move because of this. We would never be able to buy a house like this again, the price has doubled since we bought it 6 years ago (the housing market is ridiculous here). I have a decent wage myself, but not enough to buy the house on my own, so we will have to see what we can do, but he even offered to give it to mee freely if need be (not sure what taxes would think of that). I think I will try to get this sorted out as soon as possible, because like you guys said, I have no idea whether he will stay this agreeable.

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

Today he told me he had a chat with the colleague he has feelings for, and she is interested in him as well. He did say he explained to her that this was not the time for him to start a relationship, because he has "too much to work through first". But this is a colleague and he will see her every day, so it's just a matter of time before they take it further now I guess.

I did see this coming, he already mentioned at BD that he had feelings for someone else, but it still hurts like hell. He hasn't even moved out yet, or done anything to actually get the divorce through, we haven't even told the kids yet...
I think I handled the first conversation ok, I stayed calm and said I wasn't surprised. Then later I got back to him and said that although I saw it coming, I in no way condone what he is doing. I also said that I hope he can work through his issues, and that I will always keep loving him, even despite the pain he is causing. I did also say that this doesn't mean I'm just waiting for him with open arms to come back, just that I still care for him deeply, because that is a feeling that doesn't just go away.

Now I'm not sure whether that second conversation was a good idea, but I also didn't want him to walk away with the idea that I find this situation acceptable.

Another thing that he did mention; he realizes his feelings for her have become "less intense" lately, but he's not sure whether that is because he is already starting to get over her or because he's currently feeling emotionally numb in general. He expects the latter, but this is the reason he wants to take time to first work through his issues, because he has no idea how he will feel a month from now. I'm not really sure what to make of this. It sounds like he is still very confused himself, and I'd be happy if he indeed works through his issues, but somehow I doubt he will actually do that...

I'm also not sure how I will deal with this new situation. He's still living at home so I will still see him all the time, and I don't want the kids to suffer in any way so I want to keep things friendly. I hope he finds a place of his own soon I guess, that's probably better for all of us

[Ready2Transform]

As far as your house, if you're in the states and you're both on the deed, since he's agreeable you might have him sign a quit claim deed that will remove him. Research that or consult an attorney about it. That's what I did. You can possibly assume your loan or refinance in time, but that will give you rights should you want him removed from the home at any point (not saying you will - but like with everything in this, striking while the mood is right can be to your benefit for future incidents).

It's incredibly cruel that he's treating you like a buddy, as though it is appropriate. When mine did that in the early days (OW broke up with him briefly after their affair was outed, and he tried to meet other women - bringing me their business cards so I could "work with them" while he dated them, like it was a team sport!  ). You absolutely can shut down hearing anything about it. You can be straightforward in how you direct it, without making it personally about your feelings or his. Something like, "It's inappropriate for you to discuss this with me." It's not, "You hurt me when you say that," - because part of "monster", even what RCR called "puppy monster" that wasn't a mean oaf but was still cruel, will enjoy getting a rise out of your emotions. Even when he talks about his emotions in a way that makes you somehow responsible for giving him a pep talk (mine would have these long 'coffee talks' with me that cut into my work day and basically turned me into his life coach), you can say, "You're better off finding someone else to help you with this" and just leaving him to it - even if that means walking out of the room, or counter-intuitively going somewhere else when you feel like being clingy. You'll break yourself of your own bad habits around it. Trust me - they leave anyway. You're not building a bond that's going to make him behave better, unfortunately. But it's good that you do know that there's a third party in the wings. Be prepared. But also, build your independence. Hugs.

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

I live in Europe, and I'm not sure what is and isn't possible here, but we have a meeting set up tomorrow with a financial advisor to discuss options. My H was rather surprised that I set this up so quickly, he seemed almost offended somehow and said he expected us to first discuss options together. Maybe he feels left out in some way, or perhaps he feels hurt that I would think he doesn't know these things? I have no clue, but I told him I didn't really see a point in us discussing between us until I actually have an overview of what the options are. I really hope I will be able to put the house on my name, but I'm worried the bank won't accept it.

Regarding the buddy thing, I really don't understand how this works in his mind. He thinks he can just ditch me like this and then expect to be buddies after? I'm trying to detach and be away from him as much as possible, but that's hard with him still living here. Also the mixed messages are just so maddening sometimes.. he has feelings for this OW and they are mutual, but he doesn't want a relationship yet and he is in no hurry to push our divorce through because he first needs to work on himself. He doesn't want to tell the kids yet that we're separating, but he's quite sure that this is what he wants. He has no clue how he will feel next month though. Oh, and of course he would like to join me and the kids on holiday this summer....

I told him this morning that he can sleep on the couch from now on, because I don't think it's appropriate for him to sleep in the same bed as me when he's already halfway into a relationship with someone else. His response was that he understands, but "he sees that differently, although it is probably where things are headed". What the hell am I to make of that?

I think I will keep my distance again for the coming time, spend time with the kids and doing fun stuff, but keep contact with my H to a minimum. I think I need some time to get to a calmer state again

[UrsaMajor]

I found I think a picture of your H

[KayDee]

Best not to try to make sense of it. It will keep changing anyway. My H said to me 'this relationship is everything I want' - the next day he left. This is one of a very large collection of contradictory and/or head-scratching things he has said. Better to watch his actions really. I don't like to infantalize the person in crisis, but the behaviours often mirror those of adolescents or teenagers. I believe there is a psychological explanation to this, broadly that part of a person gets 'stuck' at the time of a significant trauma. We also return to what we know when things overwhelm us - this could be early coping strategies - running away or seeking new pastures wins the prize here - or the known of our families (even if we don't particularly like them). So often there is a regression seen in the behaviour.

What's staggering (but unsurprising in the context of MLC) is that your H somehow expects you to join him in his holding pattern, where he preps himself up for divorce and a new relationship, while you emotionally struggle to keep afloat. The entitlement is off the charts. I know it is really hard in the very early days, but you need to focus on your own well-being -  triage yourself with an emotionally safe home space, support from friends/family/IC, and activities that lift your mood (exercise, hobbies, dining out etc). If he is leaving, he needs to respect your space to heal. He won't get this, you will like have to put in your own boundaries.

[Treasur]

His response was that he understands, but "he sees that differently, although it is probably where things are headed". What the hell am I to make of that?

I call it ‘word salad’ bc it’s almost like hearing someone throw a random set of words into a bowl. Fish. Awful. Happy. Aardvark. Fusion and fission. (My xh actually used that one when I was trying to arrange a date for him to pick up his possessions  Folks use word salad to deflect and avoid more direct communication usually. Or to manipulate. And passive 3rd party….something happened vs I did something…to avoid consequences and accountability. And how entitled he is that he evidently still thinks you are interested in hearing his opinions about what works or does not for you. I remember my xh, just before the divorce was finalised and after literally years of stonewalling, WTF and ghosting me for long patches of time, was shocked, shocked I tell you, when I turned down his offer to talk every other day at 1830 albeit with a list of undiscussables lol. I said that I could see no point to that and that divorcd kind of meant no future conversations from my pov, so no thanks. His response? ‘I refuse to accept your paradigm’…… my (unspoken) response? You pompous weirdo, I don’t remember asking your permission….and it’s not a paradigm, it’s a choice. 

I suspect your h is doing a bit of all of this, perhaps trying to keep his home options open while he nibbles on external cake  so well done you for saying he can sleep on the couch. Award yourself 500 decent human points if you have not hidden spikes or faeces in the couch cushions 

[thissucks7788]

Fwiw, I think you're handling it well.  You set your boundaries and put him on the couch. Also quickly set up a formal meeting to discuss finances. Good!  As everyone says it is time to look after yourself.  At this point, your H can't be trusted.  You will heal better when he is out of your house.  As we suspected, it is the feelings for the co-worker which massively contributed (imo) to him leaving.  He is setting the stage for a relationship with her so you won't be surprised-- I personally don't believe he will wait to work through things first as he claims...but I guess we will see.  In front of him-- I would give her very little oxygen.  You are the prize, the wife and mother of his children--act accordingly.

Here is just one gal's opinion.  I would be pleasant in my short interactions, but in no way ask him to reconsider etc...(you already told him you love him, so he knows). Show strength even if you don't feel it.  I believe that they think that you are going to fight for them and when you don't it sort of shocks them -- they do gain some respect for you.  My H even asked me just recently (reconciled for a year and a half) why I didn't fight for him.  Do you believe that?  I just said that I knew that your mind was made up and nothing I would say would change it.  So at least throw your H off his game and take back some power.  I think you're doing extremely well.  But remember to 100% look after yourself in all ways (health, financial etc....) So you will be fine either way.   Hugs!

B

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

I found I think a picture of your H

Haha, that does seem like him 😁 Thanks for making me smile, I can use that right now

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

The entitlement is off the charts.

Talking about entitlement, he just asked if we could take turns sleeping on the couch, and was quite shocked when I took a moment and then said I would think about it, but that this situation is caused by him and I find it a bit strange that I would need to sleep on the couch for that. He actually looked hurt.

Update: after a long walk he came back to say he would like to claim the small room and put a bed there for himself (fine with me) and that he was surprised with my reaction, but mostly with the twinkle he saw in my eyes. As if I had found a new part of myself, and he enjoyed seeing me flourish like that.
I'll just take that compliment without trying to figure out what that means (I should definitely do that more often) and be happy that he didn't come back with anger or resentment. He hasn't shown any of that since the first few weeks luckily, though in some ways it would be so much easier to move on if he did..

[UrsaMajor]

The entitlement is off the charts.

Talking about entitlement, he just asked if we could take turns sleeping on the couch, and was quite shocked when I took a moment and then said I would think about it, but that this situation is caused by him and I find it a bit strange that I would need to sleep on the couch for that. He actually looked hurt.

Too bad, so sad..... His choices, his consequences.....

Update: after a long walk he came back to say he would like to claim the small room and put a bed there for himself (fine with me) and that he was surprised with my reaction, but mostly with the twinkle he saw in my eyes. As if I had found a new part of myself, and he enjoyed seeing me flourish like that.
I'll just take that compliment without trying to figure out what that means (I should definitely do that more often) and be happy that he didn't come back with anger or resentment. He hasn't shown any of that since the first few weeks luckily, though in some ways it would be so much easier to move on if he did..

Ah yes... the old "See? You're already doing better off without me" sadz..... Page 18 of the "MLC for Dummies" playbook....

In other words, from him

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

So, he has found an apartment. He can move there 1st of March.
I'm mostly happy, the situation has been growing more awkward after the recent developments. He is still very friendly and nice, but that is exactly what makes it awkward. There is still no realization or empathy for how this situation is for me, no realization that living together with me while checking availability of his colleague is not ok. Also, he says will use the time in his apartment to work on his issues, and I hope he actually does that. He actually started talking about finding a therapist again, so who knows. It will also give me more time and space to actually start focussing on myself when he's not around all the time.
What I'm really dreading though, is telling the kids. I'm really worried about how they will take it, this will be as unexpected for them as it was for me. Especially our eldest is quite sensitive. He doesn't take big changes well and he's not a talker (like his dad....)
I keep going round and round in my head about what we should tell them. My H wants to tell them that he is struggling and needs time and space to work through it. On the one hand I am fine with this, because to me this is very much the truth. But I don't want to give them the kids this shock first, en then give them another shock later on when they hear he wants a divorce. At the same time, I don't want to tell them now that he wants a divorce only to tell them in a few months that he had a change of heart. I know the chance of that is not that high, but he is sometimes saying things like "I have no idea how I will feel next month". I know I shouldn't cling to hope, and I think I'm quite realistic that this chance is very small. But, I do want to minimize confusion for the kids...

[Treasur]

Why not let your h tell them whatever he intends to say? (Partly bc it’s his decision so his circus, partly bc these folks change their minds from Tuesday to Thursday, partly bc you are not responsible for his actions or to be a magic mindreader/translator of his thoughts, mostly bc you can’t control that anyway)

Why don’t you tell them simply what you do factually know….eg he’s moving out….and be honest in an age appropriate way about what you don’t know….eg what he will decide he wants to do after he moves out or indeed what you will decide is best for you all further down the line.

Imho I’d worry less about what you will say - beyond the bare bone facts - and be driven more by what your kids ask. Bc tbh at a simple level, the questions we humans ask tends to show pretty clearly what we feel we want or need to know at a given time. When we are ready to hear certain things. Or not.

And is ok to say ‘I don’t know’ when you don’t. Or ‘I don’t know yet but I will figure it out as I go’. Or ‘I don’t know, you would have to ask your father.’

Sadly, no one can protect their children from all of the practical realities of life and that includes your h’s choices. Imho however one can do them a real service, bc unwanted stuff happens in life, by helping them feel what they feel, validating their right to feel it and supporting them as they figure out what to do with it that is healthy for them. And repeating the things you can control that will stay the same….your love for them, your commitment to trying to always do what is best for them, that hard as it is, you will all be ok eventually even if it is a different kind of ok than you all had planned.

When does your h want to tell them?
When do you?

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

I guess you're right, it's probably just my anxiety about how much pain this will cause them that is driving me nuts. But all I can do is help them through it best I can, I don't control the rest :/
Since my H doesn't seem to like the couch, he's planning to change the smallest room into a mini bedroom for himself this weekend. I guess that is a good moment to tell the kids as well. I don't feel much for selling them some excuse about him getting a separate bedroom, since H will have his own place in a few weeks anyway.

[Treasur]

That makes sense. I know your kids are still little, but tbh kids do seem to sense something ‘off’ about our spouses more and sooner than we think.

What schedule/arrangements - if any - have you made about shared custody or visitation once he moves out? And finances?

Have you taken legal advice in your/his options and obligations? Big stuff and small stuff like redirecting his mail and your ability to exclude him from the house if you wish, ha ha as I am guessing you won’t be able to drop by uninvited and let yourself into his new home, right?  Bc tbh once he moves out, the landscape changes and you should. You don’t have to act on it but you should get some legal advice bc this is about your children’s wellbeing and keeping a roof over your collective head while maintaining your own sanity - three things that are too important I’d imagine to trust to fate or your h’s whims or promises. Or indeed ow’s agenda.

As his initial complaints seemed to be a lot about not wanting grown up responsibilities, I suspect he may find this rather more hard work than he thinks without a wife appliance bc kids this age are full of beans lol…lovely but require effort and organisation. Which is why, if I  were in your shoes, hard though it will feel, I would organise things from Day 1 ‘as if’ you were already divorced.

Why? Well, if I were a betting woman, I could imagine your h coming round to ‘visit’ the kids (when he feels like it  ) leaving you to do all the adult stuff bc, well, it’s a very self centred man child way to do it. A quick free family dinner, a few cuddles and a bit of attention etc, bit of a Dad Performance to make himself feel that he isn’t an PoS and off he goes. That’s not how real life works if you are a man who leaves your wife and children. And be clear in your own mind - that is what he has told you he is doing and that is what he is now doing on March 1st.

No lipstick he tries to put on it (or you do) changes a pig from being a pig; it’s just a pig with lipstick.

So, just as well to start with some adult arrangements from the off. Plus it gives you some space away from his sadz or chaos or entitlement, and some breathing space for your own healing and some restorative GAL stuff that you can plan around your own schedule.

Decide what kind of 50/50 ish schedule will work best for you and the kids, and propose it starts from March 2nd. Or listen to any counter-proposal he makes and agree to what seems workable. Do not adult for him with the details. Bc right now it reads as if your h essentially thinks he can swan off on a kind of experimental ‘vacation’ from his family and you will just carry the load.

Still his ‘plan’ to dip out of family life and parenthood for 2-3 days a week in his new gaff, examine his navel and perhaps others’ navels, have a nice groovy single life, and then ‘come home’ to his ‘best buddy’ and grateful children for 3-4 days? Then rinse and repeat until….what/when?

I’m struggling to see what is in that for you or your kids tbh. Other than the fear of what saying No to it would mean. And I can see some potential collateral damage for you and the kids from the sheer self-centred mindf**kery and uncertainty of it tbh. Like an endless audition for all of you. For a prize that is not much of a prize at the moment. I can’t find words to tell you how outrageous, unfair and plain weird his plan seems to me. It makes me feel like punching him in the face when I  imagine the faces of your little ones and how life altering this is going to be for you all. Quite a lot of short rude words in my head, many followed by the word ‘off’…. And I’m not really very given to anger usually.
But my opinion doesn’t matter really.
How does it seem to you?
Acceotable as a way for you and your kids to live or not?  For how long?
What you deserve or not? Practical or not? Pros and cons? Boundaries?
And why?
Bc, unless this version of a marriage and family, the 2 days a week at home version, is acceotable to you, I think your h is essentially gaslighting you (and your kids) to behave as if it is normal and acceotable for your family. And if it isn’t, you have the right to say No Thanks to it.

Or have I misunderstood the plan?

Bc that’s how real life works, isn’t it?
We make choices.
Choices have effects.
We then choose how we manage the effects the best way we can for everyone involved.
This may come as a bit of an unwelcome shock to your h, but hey ho. This is what really getting what he says he wants normally looks like in the real world.

If he finds that upsetting or inconvenient, not your job to tidy that up for him. And when/if he leaves, you’re entitled to organise your life as suits you best without a kind of virtual ‘husband in name only’. Er, nope. :…..he is firing you from the wife job so you can lay down all those responsibilities - just focus on being a decent human, a responsible adult and a solo co parent. Jmo though - you will do you. I am poking hard I suppose bc I want to encourage you to think about all the different options you actually do have, and that it truly isn’t all about him. In fact, you and your kids outweighs him 4 to 1 

If he fails to make/keep that kind of standard separated parent agreement, (and I’d bet money I don’t have that he will), document it. If this situation does end up in a more formal separation or divorce, this kind of information may be very useful in securing more/all of the custody of your children and child support until they are grown up.

But I really would encourage you to take legal advice on a good draft separated agreement that won’t set any disadvantageous precedents for you if it becomes something more formal down the line. And co parenting, not ‘daddy pops home when he feels like it’ parenting. Bc that’s far from ideal for small humans, isn’t it? And I can see that you are a good mum, so I know you know that. 

I think a lot of us LBS worry that drawing these kinds of lines in the sand will ‘push them away’ more and limit the chance of reconciliation if that is what we want. There is no evidence here that this is so….actually there are some stories of reconciliations coming about bc MLC spouses get exactly what they claim to want and then find out they don’t like it much. But none I recall that were based on appeasement or nicing them back. Bc you and your kids are NOT the problem: your h’s dissatisfaction with himself, and his immaturity and self-centredness is…and in all my years on the planet I’ve never seen those things change if others keep feeding or enabling them  , have you?

As you will know, the odds of reconciliation here are not high and the process can take years, so it makes sense to live ‘as if’ from here on. You are a young woman with three great kids. There’s a lot of life to be lived yet. Please don’t let your fears limit your options or your beliefs about what you and your small ones deserve to hope for and have in your lives.

The good news is that focusing pretty exclusively on what you and your kids need and deserve is a win-win for you, even if it doesn’t feel like any kind of win at all given how you probably feel at the moment. Bc there is a good family life full of joy on the other side of this for you and your little ones, regardless of whether it includes your h or not. And if it doesn’t that will be his stupidity and his loss.

You have talked here about HIS plan. (Although in true MLC fashion, it’s not a plan as such, is it, more like the life version of a fast food menu)

What’s YOUR plan?
Bc I truly think you need one or you will all just end up inadvertently living on the edges or on a shelf in his.. And I think you and your kids deserve so much more than that.

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

What’s YOUR plan?
Bc I truly think you need one or you will all just end up inadvertently living on the edges or on a shelf in his.. And I think you and your kids deserve so much more than that.

Heh, you sound just like my therapist.. and you're right of course, this is definitely something I struggle with. I think as a child I developed a coping strategy where I would just adapt myself to whatever people expected of me. That strategy still serves we well in many situations, but it's also a huge codependency pitfall. I tend to think of what others need before I consider my own needs. That doesn't mean I don't stand up for my own needs at all, but if what I need conflicts with what other people want, I have to be careful not to forget myself.
It of course doesn't help in this situation that H is openly talking to me about how hollow he feels inside and how he wants to work on himself and his childhood issues, because my first reaction to that is to encourage him and give him all the space he needs. And while he still says he's convinced we should get divorced, he also says he has no idea how he will feel in one month from now. These little breadcrumbs are also feeding the idea that I should give him space to sort out his head. But then again, he did share his feelings with his co-worker already, so who am I kidding about him sorting out his head instead of just jumping to action? Aargh, however messed up this is, I still love him (or at least, the person I think is still in there) and care about his well being. But in doing so I indeed forget to claim the time and space that I need to detach and heal.

I think up until last week I was actually fine with the plan of him taking time to work on himself and being with the family for the rest of the time, but thi thing with his co-worker changes a lot. I'm still in doubt as to what my plan is though. On the one hand, I would indeed like to propose a co-parenting schedule and have him feel what it's like when we do separate. His apartment is not big enough to have the kids over, so he would have to come over to our/my house to take care of the kids, but I could stay with my parents on those days to prevent me still doing all the work for him. On the other hand, I don't think he can actually handle this at the moment, and I'm not sure I want to put the kids through that. The other option I'm considering is to (kindly) tell him that I don't feel comfortable leaving the kids with him at this moment, and whether he would consider to first really work on himself before we move to such a situation. If I go for the last option though, I'm basically giving him all the good things he wants (time for himself and time with the kids) without any responsibilities.

Last night he came to me to have a chat about some things, and the conversation drifted towards how he feels that reading his self-help books is helping already. He recognizes a lot in there, and he noticed how he gets less frustrated with the kids lately. I recognize that he's much nicer to them; less angry, actually asking about their lives sometimes. But from my point of view he gets less frustrated with them just because he doesn't spend as much time with them. We have dinner as a family, then he goes out to have a walk and smoke and then does the dishes while I get all three kids to bed. Weekends he also goes off to do groceries, DIY projects, whatever, while I handle the kids. I sometimes go out and do fun stuff with the kids, while he stays at home. So long story short, I'm starting to feel like me giving him space is actually backfiring, and is giving him the impression that he's doing better than he actually is. To me it sounds more like he is finding new ways or more energy to hide how he is actually feeling, so more running.

Bc, unless this version of a marriage and family, the 2 days a week at home version, is acceotable to you, I think your h is essentially gaslighting you (and your kids) to behave as if it is normal and acceotable for your family. And if it isn’t, you have the right to say No Thanks to it.

Yes, he definitely is. The kids will have a one-week holiday from school next week, and he asked me this morning whether he should take a day off so we can do something fun as a family. I was just so stunned that I did not feel like I could respond in a reasonable way at that point, so I told him I'd think about it. But somehow he seems to think he can leave, have his co-worker ready for a relationship and then still do stuff as a family as if nothing is going on. And I don't think he means this badly, he just really doesn't see that this is not how the world works.
So yes, I am going to set boundaries on these things from now on, since for me this is no longer acceptable with him already halfway towards a relationship with someone else.

Have you taken legal advice in your/his options and obligations? Big stuff and small stuff like redirecting his mail and your ability to exclude him from the house if you wish, ha ha as I am guessing you won’t be able to drop by uninvited and let yourself into his new home, right?  Bc tbh once he moves out, the landscape changes and you should. You don’t have to act on it but you should get some legal advice bc this is about your children’s wellbeing and keeping a roof over your collective head while maintaining your own sanity - three things that are too important I’d imagine to trust to fate or your h’s whims or promises. Or indeed ow’s agenda.

I'm not too worried about preventing him from dropping in uninvited, I think he will respect my boundaries there. It's ok if he wants to come over outside of his "standard moments", but he should check first. But yes, I had a chat with a financial advisor this week about our house, because I want more certainties about me keeping the house if we divorce. Right now H is still willing to cooperate with this, but that can of course change any time. From the first talk, it looks like it should be possible to get the house in my name, but it won't be easy. I may have to ask my parents to help out, so I'm currently trying to piece together all the details to give me a better idea of what is and isn't possible. Apart from the house, I'm not too worried about most things. I earn about the same as H does, so financially we should be ok

[Treasur]

It sounds as if your default - and how brave and smart it is of you to recognise this bc we can’t decide if we want to change things we can’t see - is to start with others needs and then work backwards to yours rather than the other way round? To sort of add yours in later if that makes sense?

If that sounds about right, it sounds as if the current situation with your h might get tangled up in that default so it inadvertently ends up being cart before horse given how things are. So, quite a lot of your post implies a starting place of a kind of ‘I think this will be better for him/what he is capable of/rewarding/punishing him’ and then moves to a ‘so I think I/the kids/everyone else can do x or y’.
What would happen if you mentally turned that 180 degrees the other way?
If you started with ‘I think this will be better for me and the kids’ and then let the dice fall with him as they fall? If you removed his needs/wants from your thinking and purely focused on your needs/wants….starting there and then folding his in at the end if there’s space? So, the opposite of your default.
What does that look like?

Worth considering perhaps if only to get a different vista and perhaps see some things that are not either/or but sit in the middle.
But with the health warning that, if your default is actually your normal pattern, it will feel a bit weird to experiment with reversing it. And your h will doubtless have become accustomed to the old default….probably why he feels so able to share his sadz with you without seeming to consider yours much  ….and he may be rather surprised and angry if you decide to change that good old default a bit 

[KayDee]

And while he still says he's convinced we should get divorced, he also says he has no idea how he will feel in one month from now.

And actually, neither will you. As the drip drip drip of his behaviour starts to take effect, you will begin to have your own shifts in behaviour and thinking.

I think Treasur is bang on. Perhaps you are still, habitually (?) coping for him. Perhaps you can try the 180 she suggests. It's not you that has upended everything, why should you stand on your head. He is capable of being a decent father, he is just chooses not to. And I don't want to be cynical, but I would be very surprised if he is 'working on himself', unless there is a whole school of mental health recovery called 'have an affair to fix your marriage and bond with your kids' - many self help book, IMO, are a kind of narcissistic supply. Not all, of course, but the popular ones don't really encourage introspection - they're all 'you are the master of your own destiny' kinda tosh.

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

It sounds as if your default - and how brave and smart it is of you to recognise this bc we can’t decide if we want to change things we can’t see - is to start with others needs and then work backwards to yours rather than the other way round? To sort of add yours in later if that makes sense?

Sort of, maybe, it's not like I don't consider my own needs at all. If something is important to me I will speak up. And for all major decisions in my life I do consider my own needs. This is actually one of the things my H is now blaming me for, that I apparently never listened to his needs when we decided to remigrate after spending 4 years in the UK. I know this is not true, he had a major say in this as well, but apparently he doesn't remember that.
But in smaller things, I think I do have the tendency to adapt to other people's expectations or needs indeed. Sometimes just because I just don't care too much about a lot of things, but maybe also sometimes out of habit or perhaps to avoid conflict? And perhaps I am still doing that. I like to tell myself I've accepted the current situation for this long because I need to know I did everything in my power to prevent a divorce, however little I can do. And that this is why I've been giving him this space. But maybe I'm fooling myself.

The problem is, if I try to turn it around, I'm not actually sure what is best for me and the kids at this point. I think for me the best would be to be away from the friendly facade of my H as much as possible, so I can detach more and let his problem be his problem. But for the kids, I'm not sure. I guess most important for them is that we stay friendly and civil, that they don't have to process too much changing at the same time and that they still have a dad. And perhaps that does mean that having dad spend time at home partly is the best at this point for them. In the long run, he would need to get a house where the kids can also stay, but that may take quite a while. We would first need to get our current house on my name, and even then it's not sure whether H would be able to buy something big enough. The housing market is crazy here.

And I don't want to be cynical, but I would be very surprised if he is 'working on himself', unless there is a whole school of mental health recovery called 'have an affair to fix your marriage and bond with your kids' - many self help book, IMO, are a kind of narcissistic supply. Not all, of course, but the popular ones don't really encourage introspection - they're all 'you are the master of your own destiny' kinda tosh.

This is actually what I'm also afraid of, that he's using self help books to try and bury the negative feelings again like he has been doing for so long already, instead of actually working on it. He does also say that he has to work through childhood issues, and wanting to seek help with that, so who knows, maybe he will actually work through issues. Time will tell I guess

[thissucks7788]

I don't know...but my H also wanted to be "best friends" and play family over the holidays when he left and  yet was trying to pursue a relationship with his LO.  For me, this would never work.  I felt H didn't deserve friendship from me and I don't want to play family when he was breaking it up and fired me from the job of being his wife.  If he was choosing LO than he was choosing to be without me, my friendship and he could have his own relationship with his son without my involvement.  This was just my view.  I did it for me, b/c how can I heal with him around dropping breadcrumbs...but also they should feel the weight of the consequences of their decision.  Also, when he comes over to watch your kids, I would dress up, go out and have some "me" time.  I wouldn't tell him what you're doing-- he lost that right.  Maybe you're re-evaluating as well.  I think they like to keep us as a back up plan just in case their new life doesn't work out for them.  I also say again-- I hope this isn't too hurtful, but I believe he is going to pursue this co-worker right away and not take space to "work on himself".
B

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

Saturday we told the kids that daddy is now sleeping in his own room, and is looking for a place for himself. H said this was because his head was "busy" and he needed time alone. They didn't respond much, D7 started acting out a bit throughout the day, first she said she wanted to live with daddy because she loves him more than anything, a few hours later she said she wants everyone to stay together S2 didn't really catch much of the conversation, but was a bit confused the next morning that daddy had a new bedroom. I'm actually most concerned about S9, who didn't really show much reaction at all yet. I hope that will still come out in the next few days, I know this must be tough for him as well.

When I asked H what we were going to tell the teachers at school, he was hesitant to tell them the same story that we told the kids (this seemed most logical to me), because he didn't want them to think he has a mental health issue... He's been talking for weeks about not feeling anything, being numb, not finding anything enjoyable, having childhood issues to work through. But no, it's not a mental health issue obviously. That said, I can understand he doesn't want everyone to know that per se, so we opted for just telling teachers the practical facts without any explanation (which will obviously make them realize a divorce is on the way, but maybe that's even for the better).

I noticed I find it more and more difficult to keep pretending to be a happy family together lately. In the past months I was mostly fine with it, but maybe that is because I was somehow in denial since H has still been friendly all this time. I think it's a combination of him contacting his LO and us telling the kids that is now making it more difficult for me to keep pretending.
H wanted to go swimming with the kids yesterday and asked me to join as well, I declined and stayed home with our oldest who didn't want to go either. In the evening, I told him that I don't feel much for doing things as a family in the upcoming school holiday either (he decided to take a day off to do something fun together), because I'm not ok with pretending to be a happy family while he is starting a relationship with someone else. He was a bit surprised, but was happy I told him. Interestingly, he said that he was about to ask me whether I would like to spend some more time together in the evenings again, since he noticed we have been mostly been spending time apart lately. I don't feel much for spending time with him outside stuff with the kids, so I've just been doing my own thing. He asked me to confirm whether it was indeed a bad idea to ask me to do more things together. I wasn't sure what to respond, because I have no clue why he would want to spend more time together.. so, I decided to ask him just that, why he wanted to suggest spending more time together. He thought about it for a while and then said it was probably just out of habit?? Also, he has no idea how that would evolve because he doesn't really look past the next couple of weeks.

I then asked him how this worked in his head, whether he thought this was acceptable somehow to start a relationship with someone else and still continue family life like before and spending time with me as well. I'm not sure that was a good thing to ask, but his answer was that he does sometimes wonder why he doesn't find this a weird situation, but he just doesn't. He expects this has something to do with him feeling emotionally numb and not having much empathy at the moment. We then talked a bit more about that, and he now seems to be convincing himself that he is in this state as a result of "us breaking up". Apparently his sister (who is a psychologist) told him this is a natural coping mechanism for some people in a situation like this. Obviously he didn't tell her that he was feeling depressed and numb for a long time before he dropped the bomb already, I guess this version of reality suits him better.

The working on himself that he was planning to do once he has a place of his own has also changed back to "getting his emotions under control", instead of actually working through things like he was talking about earlier. Apparently he read in one of his books that you can choose what you feel, so that is what he is now working towards. Sounds like more running to me...

I think that has destoyed my last little bit of hope that he would actually work through issues when he has his own apartment, but emotionally I'm still all over the place. One moment I want this to just be over, have him in his own place and set up co-parenting. The next moment I want to go back on what I said and start doing fun things together again, pretending everything is fine, and somehow hoping that this will all blow over (I know that's not going to happen).
I'm still hesitant with the co-parenting set-up as well though. On the one hand I want him to feel what things would be like if I'm not around to handle the kids, but on the other hand I don't really feel comfortable leaving the kids with him that often, especially in these times. He has no empathy and is trying to pretend the kids are not affected by this situation at all, I'm guessing because he doesn't want to feel guilty. But emotional support is something they need now more than ever. I can tell that he is trying to be there for the kids, much more than he used to actually. He is sometimes asking them how their day was, telling them he loves them (he never said that before to them!), asking them if they want a hug. He seems to be mostly copying my behavior towards them actually, but I can tell he doesn't actually feel it. In the past weeks there have also been several occasions where he just walked away angrily if they didn't do what he wanted, he gets annoyed whenever they get upset about anything, he starts power plays over the smallest things...

Sorry for the rambling, a lot has happened and I'm all over the place

[UrsaMajor]

I told him that I don't feel much for doing things as a family in the upcoming school holiday either (he decided to take a day off to do something fun together), because I'm not ok with pretending to be a happy family while he is starting a relationship with someone else. He was a bit surprised, but was happy I told him.

Sounds like a perfect occasion to establish a boundary that is good for you - on the order of "As long as you are establishing or in a relationship with someone else, I am not available to spend time with you or to pretend that things are all fine."

As far as his sister is concerned, I expect that he has told her the revisionist version of his story so take her "advice" to him with a BRICK (not just a grain)  of salt. She has most certainly NOT gotten the full story and, even if she did, she is not going to be objective....

My son who was 9 at the time was extremely upset with MLCxW when we broke the news to them ("You are taking away my daddy!") whereas my daughter (5 years old) didn't quite grasp the situation at the time. She is attached at the hip to MLCxW because MLCxW uses her as her emotional support..... S(now 16)  is, on the other hand, making his own way in the world and he and I have a good relationship. I have a good relationship with D13 as well when she is with me (every few weeks for the weekend or school holidays) and always did.

[Treasur]

We often talk here about not believing what they say…..yet balancing that with the practical quacks like a duck principle. For a while, that’s a really weird thing to balance. Not believing what they say bc well, they lie a lot, and bc they avoid responsibility by blaming you, others, an allergy to cheese, whatever. But also not being in denial about the reality of what their feet are actually showing us. Be kind to yourself….its like mentally wrestling with mist, and it takes most of us LBS a little while to find our balance. And work out our own boundaries.

I then asked him how this worked in his head, whether he thought this was acceptable somehow to start a relationship with someone else and still continue family life like before and spending time with me as well. I'm not sure that was a good thing to ask, but his answer was that he does sometimes wonder why he doesn't find this a weird situation, but he just doesn't.

And I would take that as the current truth at face value.
This is ok with him. Or ok enough. How do you know? Bc you watch his feet, his actions.
And that tells you what you should expect of him.

But it also gives you the opportunity, seeing what is self evidently ok to him, to decide what is ok to you. Or not. And to do so without giving much thought as to how he feels about what is ok or not ok to you as a way to live. Just as tbh he is not giving much thought to how you feel, right?

It’s ok - and normal - that you feel your head is all over the place.
And that you are, even if just a little bit, trying to resolve that confusion by asking him questions or to propose solutions. But that’s a metaphorical dry well. Or tbh he is already telling you his proposal….which is essentially whatever feels easiest or most comfortable for him.
And he chose to find an apartment that is not set up to accommodate his kids if that is the case….bc, well, that’s probably not his agenda or its purpose, is it? Sorry, but that’s a quacks like a duck thing to me.

You have the right - and tbh the understandable need - to decide what works for you and what doesn’t. If that means no more collective family time, so be it. If that means something more formal that looks like a visitation schedule when he has to find somewhere to take his kids that is not your home, so be it. That’s an entirely predictable effect of a man putting his family on a metaphorical shelf to ‘find himself’  that’s what real life looks like when you decide to end your current marriage and family life as it was.

And as you work out what you are prepared to offer and what is acceptable or not, you will probably find that you have to challenge some of your own beliefs and expectations of him. That can be a painful thing, particularly when kids are involved, and it’s pretty normal that we LBS don’t want to see what is in front of our nose bc we so want it not to be how it is. Be kind to yourself about that….and keep trying to see through the mist of MLC nonsense anyway. Does your h look like a man trying to dig himself out of his own deep hole? Or does he look like a man hurtling towards a new magic happy fix who wants to have a vacation from family life and adulting when and how he wants? Or does he look like a man who wants to keep a foot in both camps? Or postpone the predictable consequences that tend to come with ending your marriage?

And, given how it seems to you, what are you prepared to offer? Or to get your kids to offer? How much of this reality can you honestly protect either you or the kids from? And at what cost? Bc, remember, as the quote said, he is ok with this. And the only person who knows what you are ok with is you.

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

It's been a while since I've posted, life has been busy lately, but in a good way I went to dinner with an old friend that I hadn't seen since the covid lockdowns and enjoyed myself a lot. He offered to do that again anytime I need to get away from my current situation. I also joined a board game night with colleagues, and spent most of last week doing fun stuff with the kids during their school holiday. I didn't see H much in the past two weeks, and really enjoyed myself. I felt so much lighter and happier! I do wonder if in part that's just because I kept myself so busy that I didn't have to think about the situation, but I think that's fine, I'll take any happy moment I can find right now.

and keep trying to see through the mist of MLC nonsense anyway. Does your h look like a man trying to dig himself out of his own deep hole? Or does he look like a man hurtling towards a new magic happy fix who wants to have a vacation from family life and adulting when and how he wants? Or does he look like a man who wants to keep a foot in both camps? Or postpone the predictable consequences that tend to come with ending your marriage?

I've been trying to figure this out, but I'm still failing. It seems to me that he is doing all of those things at the same time. He is looking for his magic happy fix by moving out and starting an EA with his co-worker (I don't think it's gone beyong that still, but who knows), he's trying to dig himself out of his hole by reading self help books, whether they work I don't know. He says he'll also find a therapist to work through childhood issues, but whether he actually does remains to be seen. He definitely wants a vacation from family life and still keep a foot in both camps, although he seems to accept that the latter is not happening. So, I really have no clue what to make of it, and I should probably just give up trying to figure it out.

After I told him I didn't feel like playing happy family, he's mostly been avoiding me. Although I didn't mind that too much (it does give some peace), I did tell him a few days ago that he doesn't need to do that. There's a difference between not wanting to play happy family on fun outings and not wanting to see him at all even if he is at home. I do worry though that I'm already letting go of this boundary a bit. When I go somewhere with the kids, it just feels so natural to ask him along if he's also at home... I really have to remind myself of the current situation so that I don't do this, it's still so easy to forget since he's acting so "normal" most of the time.

He will get his apartment this Friday, and I've tried to discuss with him what kind of schedule we will have regarding the kids for the coming time. He then actually made several schedules with a 50/50 division, I was surprised he went that effort. I then asked him whether 50/50 was really what he wanted, since in the beginning the was quite clear that it was not more than 50%, and mentioned that I wouldn't mind having the kids more often. He then suggested a bi-weekly schedule of 5 days him / 9 days me, which I think is fine to start with. He then went rambling on that eventually, in a year or 3, he probably wants 50-50, "because that's how it usually goes, and the kids are 50% his", but for now he actually preferred having the extra time to himself. I again asked him whether that was what he actually wanted, or just what he thought he was supposed to do, he wasn't sure. I guess we'll see in time.
He told the kids this evening that he will have his apartment on Friday, and kept very vague how often he would be away. Again they didn't respond much straight away, but D7 came down after she went to bed to ask when this was happening exactly and how often he would go there, etc. H seemed surprised that she wanted to know beforehand when he would be here and when not.

I'm not sure how I feel about the coming time.. I'm looking forward to not having him around all the time, and at the same time I'm anxious to see what this change will bring; what it will do with the kids, what it will do with him and his relationship with the kids... Guess I'm still not detached enough, huh. But at least it will bring some peace for me and make it easier to move forward (I think).
I also decided I will start to work on actually sorting things out, at least things regarding the kids and getting the house on my name if possible. I realized that the longer I wait with that, the more difficult it will probably be. Not only because my H might become less agreeable, but also because housing prices are rising rapidly here I think it's time to face the truth and make sure the things I care about are sorted out. The rest he can sort out whenever he wants.

[KeepCalmAndCarryOn]

I've been looking more seriously at what I can do to keep the house. It's not looking great, but I may be able to pull it off. The house doubled in price since we bought it, and we own it together currently. So me buying him out would mean I need to pay him half the price increase somehow. The initial estimate of my financial advisor is that the bank will allow me to increase the mortgage for this, but it will only get me about 2/3 of the way. I'm looking at ways to fill the gap, but H actually offered to go below the minimum selling price if I don't manage. For tax purposes that would be seen as a gift to me, so he would need to pay taxes over that amount. It sure why he would agree to that, but I hope he will actually keep word on it, should it come to that. At least it's giving me the confidence that I should be able to keep the house.
Having to sell our house would be devastating for me. It's the house our kids grew up in so far, and it's full of great memories. There's an apple tree growing in our garden that has grown from an apple that S9 ate as a toddler, wall paintings I did with D7 when her little brother was born, a wall with stripes where we measure the height of our kids every year.... having to lose all that would be another big blow to take.

H is moving out to his own apartment today, but he'll still be around quite a bit the coming time. We've agreed to move to the suggested 5 days / 9 days schedule slowly over the next 3 weeks, so it's less of a shock to the kids hopefully. You'd think he would be happy now he finally has his own place, but he doesn't look happy at all. If anything, he's getting more grumpy again.. lot's of staring into nothing pondering, and lashing out at the kids more easily than he has been the past weeks. I suspect he quit smoking again (he started not long after BD, after not smoking for 17 years), and that's why he has a short fuse again.
This morning after I told him about my options to buy him out of the house, he asked me whether I wanted a hug. I was actually fine, so I was about to refuse when I realized maybe he needed a hug himself. Could it be that he is also projecting things like needing a hug onto me? So I gave him the hug, and I asked him how he was doing. He said he didn't know, because he doesn't have feelings at the moment... at least he's aware of that, I guess.