Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Mermaid on May 20, 2011, 04:22:36 AM
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Your attachment style is about how you handle intimacy, and what you do to increase or decrease the perceived distance between you and your patrner.
The Pursuer is the person who wants a commitment, is scared of being abandoned, has no issue being impulsive or taking risks in a relationship, loves talking about the relationship and/or dislikes being alone. The Distancer would rather leave everything up in the air, wants space but has issues communicating that need, is a workaholic, and/or stands still in relationships out of fear of being rejected.
SECURE: Individuals with this style can freely show and receive love; are sensual, sexual, and have high self-esteem; can ask for help and offer it to others; get upset but get over it; do not hold grudges; forgive; are comfortable with closeness as well as distance; enjoy time alone and with others.
If you don't know what your style is, take the quiz at the end of this article:
http://boards.askmen.com/archive/index.php/t-64665.html (http://boards.askmen.com/archive/index.php/t-64665.html)
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I just wonder if whether you are male or female influences this poll or not.
Well I guess we will see.
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Good point, OP. I thought about adding that in, but it made the quiz too long (I'd have to have a section for M and a section for F).
Despite that, it is an important dynamic to consider. RCR has a useful section about it.
Also, some LBS may become a distancer/ pursuer after BD.
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I must add I was only a sexual distancer after he started slacking off and sleeping on couch instead of helping with chores etc.. I didn't feel attracted to being taking advantage of...and listening to hs desire to buy a motorcycle ...(Me.. me.. me teenager mentality)
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So far I'm surprised. I thought I'd see a lot more emotional pursuers!!! Interesting.
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I answered that I was an emotional pursuer but a sexual distancer. According to the test I am a secure avoider :o May be I was secure in my marriage R before BD and did not invest in pursuit of any kind, I wonder?
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good to start this thread, Mermaid -- I was thinking about starting one. Perhaps we should put the pursuit/dstance stuff on here; maybe the bits from the Solo Partner?
I've been thinking about this; I said I was the pursuer, but I don't think I was originally -- he was. Emotionally as well. Somewhere that changed; probably around the time his father died, so quite a long time ago now. That is when he started withdrawing, so, unsurprisingly, I must have started pursuing..... the sexual distancing for me came only very soon before BD; even then I know I pursued that some. But I know I was feeling more distant -- it resonates more to the classic Love Languages thing -- you ignore me all day and then expect me to jump into bed!
I've also been wondering about talking about "I" versus "we" in terms of pursuit and distance.... around the time of his friend's suicide he switched (I now see in hindsight) from more of the "we" to the "I"....
and I'm now learning to do the "I" thing...
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I answered that I was an emotional pursuer but a sexual distancer. According to the test I am a secure avoider :o May be I was secure in my marriage R before BD and did not invest in pursuit of any kind, I wonder?
Not to influence the vote but ^^^^^ is what a normal woman is supposed to be.
A normal man is the opposite.
Solo Partner thread:
http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=1965.0
RCR articles
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance.html
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance_questions.html
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance_hoovering.html
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance_reassure-or-fear.html
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/standing-actions_contact-and-communication_pursuit-and-distance_mlcer-run-when-alienator-gone.html
DB link: Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574
Al Turtle
http://www.alturtle.com/archives/1326 What to do when He/She Leaves?
http://www.alturtle.com/blog/Relationships/Skills/ReliableMembership
http://www.alturtle.com/blog/Relationships/Skills/ReliableMembership/_archives/2005/3/9/412419.html
These two dont work and before I delete them I am trying to figure out what they are suppose to be, added the first one (what to do) which is Al's most popular article.
http://www.alturtle.com/Relationships/Skills/ReliableMembership/_archives/2005/3/9/412164.html
http://www.alturtle.com/_archives/2007/2/6/2715346.html
Edited for links on pursuit and distance articles.
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Thanks OP!
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That questionnairre was interesting.
Secure: 6
Pursuer: 0
Avoider: 9
It's like I'm a guy or something. :o
But I think it benefited Standing because I welcomed the alone time.
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I am still confused by this - I always thought that I was a distancer and that I should have been more of a pursuer - at BD, h. said that I showed no 'interest', which I refuted immediately and reminded him of all the times I had said that I thought that we spent too little time together, etc, etc... He, of course, said 'rubbish' and proceeded to rewrite history. The very next day, I wrote him a very explicit e-mail about my desire for him because his accusation had hit me hard :(.
Now, I see that I am actually a secure avoider, which shows my distancer 'virtues', however, why am I such a pursuer at the moment???
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I don't know how accurate this quiz is. I scored an 8 as secure a 5 as a pursuer and a2 as a distancer. I was sure I'd score a 10 as a pursuer. Either I don't understand myself at all or the quiz is too brief to be a good tool.
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3,8,7
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Secure-9
Pursuer-3
Avoider-5
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Prior to BD:
Secure: 6
Pursuer: 4
Avoider: 7
Now:
Secure: 8
Pursuer: 3
Avoider: 4
I seem to rank as more secure now - yet I can't answer yes to this: 5. I feel calm and secure on a daily basis.
BNW
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OK so I'm a Secure/Pursuer/Avoider ???
I also like the part where I'm studying up to be a better person and H is probably drinking vodka and gatorade with Bowser OW :)
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OK, I've missed something..... what quiz?
But regarding what RCR said about her distancing benefiting her stand, I've always thought that those who are distancers and introverts stand the best chance of reconciliation, precisely because they don't cling and like the time alone, whereas the rest of us have a much harder time with that bit....
The Al Turtle links are good -- I used to read a lot of his website, but it also always makes me a bit sad, because in all cases he works from the premise that both partners want the relationship.... not that we can't learn a lot from it anyway, but still.
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T&L I put the quiz link in my first post on this thread.
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I believe reconciliation is possible in nearly every situation. I do, however, think that if the LBS is a natural distancer, it does help with two things that are important......time and patience.
We hear stories about how sometimes when the MLCer is ready to return, the LBS has already moved on to another relationship or another marriage. The Unconditionals are certainly important for every LBS. What may really help a distancer though is that they enjoy, possibly crave, time alone. That would definitely benefit a Stander.
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Ok, thanks -- I go it. I scored pretty evenly in the secure and pursuer department, only 3 in the avoider. No surprise there, then....
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Ok, thanks -- I go it. I scored pretty evenly in the secure and pursuer department, only 3 in the avoider. No surprise there, then....
Similar to me. But I became more of a pursuer when I got married because H is strongly avoidant.
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H was definitely the pursuer at first, even though he has quite a number of avoider characteristics; I started the pursuing behaviours when he began withdrawing.... around when his father died. And when I was overwhelmed with everything and feeling unsupported. Unsurprising, really.
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Secure - 9
Pursuer - 1
Avoider - 6
As I thought I am definitely a distancer, always have been to some degree although with age have been more secure on my own. I like my own space and it has been a family joke for years. Still go for long walks on my own without a watch or mobile phone. DGU may think that being a distancer helps with Standing, especially detachment and letting go; however, I think it may also give an impression of being done. This is something I have been thinking about recently.
I did become a pursuer for a few weeks after BD (panic mode) and found this emotionally & mentally exhausting.
My h. has always been the pursuer. Add in a healthy dose of insecurity (got worse over the years) as well as strong avoidant tendencies, and no wonder I found the last few years difficult. He became needy and I felt suffocated. At BD he actually told me I had abandoned him. Probably had in a way.
Question is should I start pursuing my h.? Probably not since he is firmly ensconsed with OW, who (as told to me at BD) listens to him and makes him feel happy. I think I'll just leave him be for now.
Very interesting stuff though.
CrazyStuff
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Crazystuff
RCR mentioned earlier in this thread that it benefited her Stand because she welcomed the alone time. I am not sure either way.....was just commenting on why this could be true.
That being said, I think your intuition about not pursuing your husband and just leaving him be for now is probably the way to go.
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CS
I also feel I was a distancer in many ways..although at first I thought I was a pursuer. I'll have to take the quiz but I love alone time...travel alone...never really bored...not scared to be by myself.
I do like affection and I was there for H if he needed to talk.
I was also a sexual distancer although when I felt him pulling away I became the sexual pursuer and that did not bode well...I think it messed with his masculinity.
I do also wonder if it gives the impression of being done or not needed. I don't change it though because it's a big part of me and in a R someone will have to be able to handle this about me. Otherwise it won't work. I'm not cold but I don't mind doing my own thing.
Interesting.
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I used to like time alone, a lot -- but only if I had the security to come back to. I remember just after BD when H took the kids for the first time; I remember thinking that a few weeks before that would have been heaven, now it was hell.
I know I've said that H was the pursuer, but I may be wrong. He has said that I "didn't want him to do his own things"... which of course isn't true, but that is how he perceived it, at least when MLC came along. But I don't know if that is distancing or just not being emotionally present. The more I think about it, that only came along when MLC started.....
And my H does NOT like time alone -- he says he does, but he's always, always out with mates, hardly ever stays in on his own unless there is a very good reason. Hence jump from OW to OW as well....
oh, well....
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I think finding that balance of inside and outside is so important. A few years ago I hated being by myself, then I began to value it. On the other hand, H, who is a total avoider/ distancer, has not really adjusted so well to having people in his world.
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My copy of "Solo Partner" just arrived, and one sentence just leapt out at me. Pursuers are people who believe their happiness lies with another person.
Not only have I believed that my happiness lies with my one true love, I have also been looking for it in other things around me...
I'm an independent career woman, with my own circle of friends, finances and activities, not the dependent type outlined in "Solo Partner". So why is it so hard to let him go?
Why is it hard to let go of all my other vices (coffee, chocolate, clothes), which make me feel (temporarily) happy?
What is happiness, anyway?
I've written more about my sitch on my thread, but I thought I'd just put this out there for discussion.
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Mermaid, That line is me also. Why did I put so much pressure on my happiness to be fulfilled by H. I'm really working on this.
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The answer to "why" can probably be found in some anxiety of the past, according to "Solo Partner".
The question, I suppose, is what to put in its place.
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What do you think?
If a former pursuer becomes a distancer, will that change the distancer into a pursuer?
Or will you have two distancers, creating an ever increasing amount of distance?
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What do you think?
If a former pursuer becomes a distancer, will that change the distancer into a pursuer?
Or will you have two distancers, creating an ever increasing amount of distance?
LGO.
Your question has gotten me baffled!
L
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MLC heightens the Pusuit/Distance dance. I was the pursuer in our relationship. My ex-wife is a natural distancer, so she has no problem being alone at times, whereas I would panic when she wanted space. I finally learned to let that panic go, and I no longer feel it....or at least not very often.
From RCR's pursuit/distance article:
But in MLC such dynamics surface as one of you moves away from the other who then reacts by pursuing with fearful panic. It's important to have an understanding of the mechanism of pursuit and distance so that you can avoid the negative consequences while using the dance to your advantage. A faithful understanding of pursuit and distance can give you confident assurance to step back and allow your MLCer space and to eventually pursue you--which is what a Distancer does when not being pursued.
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If a former pursuer becomes a distancer, will that change the distancer into a pursuer?
Or will you have two distancers, creating an ever increasing amount of distance?
This is my fear. That if I continue to distance as well, we will just grow farther and farther apart, drifting into complete disconnection.
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IMHO pursuit and distance = 180, as DGU has explained when you stop pursuing the other person stops distancing.
Now as far as them pursuing I think that takes a lot longer to see.
I think in a normal relationship you would see much faster results.
In MLC it is slow like everything else.
We talk about letting them control the contact.
Again more of the same idea.
Phil Delucca is not the only one to have a theory on this subject,
Al Turtle, a well know counselor has also written about it.
DB/MWD is the person with the 180 which is also the same idea again IMHO.
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Thanks OP. I'm working on that 180. More like building up from 30, to 60, to 90 lol. I guess the hard part is I feel like I've distanced so much already. Letting go completely just feels so final and scary. I guess that's what makes it a 180 though.
Now as far as them pursuing I think that takes a lot longer to see.
I think in a normal relationship you would see much faster results.
In MLC it is slow like everything else.
This is a great reminder. Thank you!
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If a former pursuer becomes a distancer, will that change the distancer into a pursuer?
Or will you have two distancers, creating an ever increasing amount of distance?
This is my fear. That if I continue to distance as well, we will just grow farther and farther apart, drifting into complete disconnection.
I understand that fear, especially as your H, like mine, is naturally an extreme distancer. I have the impression that if I don't make any effort, neither will H. But if we don't do a 180, we will never know... it's hard though!
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Mermaid, I feel the same way. We will just have to support each other!
I really do think they rely on us doing all that pursuit dirty work for them though. Then they are able to remain in this idealized detached state "above it all" and avoid all those messy inconvenient emotional behaviors and interactions.
I can actually think of one encounter since BD that occurred when I reversed roles on my H. One weekend a couple months ago we had made our usual plans for H to come over to my place for dinner on a Saturday night. He texted that afternoon that he wasn't feeling well and would probably have to cancel. I was totally annoyed and just didn't respond, as this has been a pattern of his for quite some time now. Generally when he is feeling "stressed" he also feels "sick." Needless to say he has been feeling unwell the majority of the time for several years now.
I sat and got steamed, wondered how best to respond, put the phone down, picked it up, etc. 15-30 minutes went by. He texted again asking if I got the original message. I waited another 15 minutes. He actually called! I answered the phone totally breezy and said, "Hey what's up?" He sounded pretty agitated, asking why I hadn't responded. I replied, "Oh, I was vacuuming. Guess I didn't hear the phone. Sorry."
When he firmly reiterated that he was sick and would not be able to come over, I just said, "Oh ok. Well if you feel better let me know but otherwise no big deal." I hung up and was almost feeling relieved and looking forward to a night of relaxing on my own. Imagine my surprise when I received a text a few hours later saying he was on his way over!
I'm not sure what was different about this time as opposed to others. Maybe because he wasn't feeling well? Maybe just an exception to his usual behavior caused by cycling? I know that I personally was feeling pretty darn fed up and in the mood to just wash my hands of him and his annoying MLC behaviors completely that day. Either way it felt really good to be the one on top for once lol.
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Hi WP, I don't know if you have read much of my story, but to recap, I asked H to leave on several occasions because of his R with OW (just a "friend", he still insists, but...) H was sad about going, but then pleased; he had his space to himself at last! Last time he left, I didn't phone, didn't invite him round, and actually tried to avoid seeing him altogether. Everytime I did this, he started chasing me, and ended up making up an excuse to move back home (first for one night, then he just stayed...) So I do have experience of how doing an 180 can change things.
But he's been staying in the spare room since he came back, and all the other times he's been in and out for the last 18 months. He now regards it as his space, and he's also taken over the adjacent study, as well as leaving all his stuff at the country cottage (also "his" space). He's quite comfortable like that. He gets his space, and yet he's also near the family.
At the start of all this, he was quite alienated from the whole family (the girls were teens, and had their own life, and were not intellectual perfectionsists like him). Now he feels that they need him, which is good, (they do).
Before BD, he already spent most of his free time on his own, and I never obliged him to go to parties, etc. But he was constantly critical of me; I couldn't do anything right. He didn't help in the house, with the girls, but expected me to drop everything of he needed help. He was a workaholic, and extremely successful at work, but regarded that as his contribution. He wanted to do other (even more perfect and interesting) work, but couldn't because of his family commitments. So he felt stuck.
Now he is no longer critical of me (most of the time). He's more helpful, and doesn't need to be asked. But he spends hours and hours on the computer, either working, or playing (FB/ YOUTUBE). Then he goes cycling, on his own. Or watches the TV, or reads a book.
I feel completely invisible when I come home. It's easier to come home to an empty house than one where you don't seem to matter. D20 is away, and I know D15 likes to know I'm there, even if she doesn't want to speak. But H hardly says a word, and (raely) if does, it's about something he's seen on TV, or about the economic crisis (or worse, football). I've always paid attention to everything he's said to me, taking an interest, even if (like football), it's not really my interest. He doesn't do the same.
If I speak, his eyes glaze over and he fixes back on the TV. Sometimes, when he does this, I leave the room. If he's not listening, there's no point in speaking. But then he thinks I'm being huffy.
So, I've been listening to him, looking after him, and then giving him space when he goes to his room, or when he's not conversational. The only thing left to do is to STOP looking after him, STOP offering to help, STOP listening to him unless it's a subject that I like too (???), and stop asking him for kisses and hugs. It means I will get home at 11 pm and just go straight to my bedroom, I suppose.
I have some plans for weekends away; the LBS meeting here, a party, a Buddhist retreat, my dad's birthday. I'll just go. Look after myself.
Perhaps mirroring him would be better, so that I don't come across as angry-avoiding. Just say hello and kiss him on his forehead (which I hate). Then feed myself, without asking him if he wants anything, and go to bed with a "Cião! Sleep well!", without kissing him.
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Ugh Mermaid that is tough. I agree that it is much easier to come home to an empty house. Sometimes I feel like I have less of a tie with my H since we don't live together, but then I am relieved to have the space away from the constant strain of MLC.
Maybe the trick for us in dealing with them will be to just become as self absorbed and wrapped up in our own worlds as they are...Oh wait, I don't think that's possible! ;)
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Emotional and sexual pusurer . Sounds like a bad thing but I don't feel that it was. But I am not sure how or if this played a part in our current situation
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Emotional pursuer and sexual distancer. My H had and still has a pornography addiction and the physical part of our marriage was never as close as it should have been. His addiction over time put up a wall between us.