Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: Hopeful5 on May 23, 2024, 06:00:37 PM
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Link to old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12027
Starting my new thread. I never thought I'd be the guy with multiple threads on this forum, but here I am!!!
Naming this thread "The Twilight Zone" because that's where I feel like I've been living for the past 2 years. It's like I'm stuck in a fever dream that I can't get out of. Thanks to everyone here for your kindness and helpfulness through all of this!
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We are just trying to help.
I googled "do abusers know they are being abusive ?"
Besides the domestic violence website two more came up you might want to check out.
One was called dayone
The other was speakyourtruth.
I'm pretty sure they both had assessments. It may help validate what you are going through.
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I’ve began to write out how life might look like moving forward, a life detached or separate from my W. A vision of the future has given me a LOT of hope. Strangely, my wife has accused me of having no purpose in life, and after writing out an independent vision of the future, I see that it is full of depth and purpose.
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That's wonderful. One thing I'd noticed is how many LBSes are clear in their life purpose and stick to their guns. Know Thyself types of folks. You go!
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Strangely, my wife has accused me of having no purpose in life, and after writing out an independent vision of the future, I see that it is full of depth and purpose.
Can you say "Projection?"
Or maybe a nomination for the "Stupid WTF MLC excuses for Bomb Drop" competition... to rate right up there with "You let the dog get fat," "You don't vacuum the carpet right," and (my personal favorite) "You don't know how to cook bratwursts correctly."
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Link to old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12027
Starting my new thread. I never thought I'd be the guy with multiple threads on this forum, but here I am!!!
Naming this thread "The Twilight Zone" because that's where I feel like I've been living for the past 2 years. It's like I'm stuck in a fever dream that I can't get out of. Thanks to everyone here for your kindness and helpfulness through all of this!
Twilight Zone is right. I use that term a lot. Like you - long marriage and wife re-writing history.
The worst part is my wife blew up our family and carries on in another town and on-line like everything is as it should be and is normal.
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Constant criticism of me behind my back to the kids, over every little thing. This is aggravating to no end. I imagine that regardless of a divorce, this will continue to be an issue. It creates a lot of paranoia and seeps out in the kids attitude toward me. I'm dealing with it now while living in the same house, but post divorce, I'll be dealing with it when I have time with the kids. Has anyone else dealt with this before? If so how did you deal with it? Even if you haven't dealt with it - I'm open to thoughts regardless.
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I watched this unfold over months & months and eventually just snapped. Told her the courts do not like disparagement. Explained to her a standard custody agreement includes an anti disparagement clause and breaking it would affect her custody (remember when talking to am MLCer, its all about them, so frame the discussion around them and how their actions affect THEM, they couldnt care less about anyone else). Told her I would document all issues of disparagement going forward and go to war over it legally as its in the best interest of the kids and they need to be protected.
The disparagement appears to have stopped for the last few weeks (or its being done more stealthfully, time will tell).
This was not an empty threat. This was a hard boundary which I'm prepared to go to the ends of the earth to enforce. Dont mess with my kids...
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I am so sorry you are going through this. My daughter was already mid-teen so things were much easier. But ex was very angry toward me, sometimes even when she was around. And he did disparage me, I think.
My solution worked wonders for us, YMMV. Ex was the divorce initiator, so he was quite fearful DD would not forgive him. He was also terrified I would tell her about his affair, so fear made him mean and reckless at times. He was picking fights with me, being disdainful and irrational, probably unconsciously hoping I would lose control and lash out back. Then he would have proof I deserved divorce and worse. He wanted justification in the eyes of the world and DD's in particular.
You can’t love them back into the marriage, but you may be able to love them to a peaceable divorce that spares the kids as much as humanly possible.
I told DD “Dad is brave to leave because he wants happiness. I am brave to stay because I want to protect our family. We are both right. I wish him the best and will always love him.” I never wavered.
He wouldn’t give me the itinerary when he traveled with her overseas for weeks. He cussed me out when an appliance broke down right before our house showing.
What takes the cake: When she had suicide ideation, he blamed it on me initially and said he was thinking about having the court assign a psychologist, whose approval I need for every single thing I say to DD.
I always told him regarding DD: We have a problem together. I am sorry for whatever role I’d played in her pain. Yes, you’re right; a lot of this must be my fault. Some of it is the very nature of divorce, and I am sorry things got to this point. (God knows I wasn't being manipulative; it was all too true.)
It worked rapidly with DD. She quickly realized I was always there. I did not date. She saw how much I loved and cared for both of them. He was robbed of all ammunition. The worst things he could tell her about me were that I did not come to the dinner table sometimes because I stayed in the kitchen preparing food to make sure every dish arrived hot. He said that showed I did not make him a priority.
DD is a very bright kid; we always taught her to think for herself. She can draw her own conclusions.
Our divorce was cheap and amicable. Most of it was mediated; the lawyers brought in at the very end (I dragged my feet a bit and he understandably lost patience) made very little money. I got a bit less than I probably could have gotten – maybe 15% less? But he has been very generous with her.
He was largely rid of guilt around her because of my heartfelt praise. Hence the financial generosity and, much more importantly, his increasing loving attention as the MLC fog fades over the last 4 years since divorce.
DD has truly flourished. Don’t get me wrong; she still has the hardest time sometimes, and I am lucky I can work remotely and spend extended amounts of time with her. But things could have been far worse.
Love is never squandered. Love is noble, beautiful, brave, kind and good. I thank my XH, ultimately, for having loved me so well that, when I needed to draw on my inner reserves, they were overflowing with love.
I hope this helps.
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Constant criticism of me behind my back to the kids, over every little thing. This is aggravating to no end. I imagine that regardless of a divorce, this will continue to be an issue. It creates a lot of paranoia and seeps out in the kids attitude toward me. I'm dealing with it now while living in the same house, but post divorce, I'll be dealing with it when I have time with the kids. Has anyone else dealt with this before? If so how did you deal with it? Even if you haven't dealt with it - I'm open to thoughts regardless.
Hi Hopeful5,
I gotta admit that learning REBT and stoicism did change my course with parental alienation for better. It is not the be-all-end-all type of solution, but it will improve things massively when you repeat the practises consistently again and again
What I'll share below is taken and modified from my personal notes when I was more or less in where you are. So the style etc. may seem bit unusual (but it does prove I am a very systematic thinker, LOL). Any extra additions/comments just for you I have placed inside parenthesis below.
It will get better. But it requires you to focus on you and your behaviour instead of responding to her crazy stuff.
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Core principles
1) Recognize and accept the limits of your control over the other parent's actions.
(This can be hard pill to swallow, but you really have no options with this one. )
2) Strive to be the best parent you can be, regardless of external challenges.
(This is pretty much what being the lighthouse is all about. But it's not for your W, but to yourself and your kids. )
3) Develop inner strength and resilience to handle the emotional and practical difficulties that arise.
(Like I said, this is not be-all-end-all type of solution. You will encounter some hard times even years down the road.)
4) Focus on the long-term well-being of your children and your own peace of mind.
(Following stoic advice will help building solid relationships with your children and your own self/integrity.)
A) Undermining Parental Authority
Advice: Focus on your own actions and responses and accept that you cannot control the other parent's actions.Continue to enforce your rules and principles consistently when you are with your children.
Benefits:
* Demonstrates stability and reliability to your children.
* Maintains your own integrity and standards.
Risks:
* Children might feel caught between conflicting rules.
* Potential for increased tension with the other parent.
B) Badmouthing
Advice: Your reputation is shaped by your actions, not by what others say about you. Avoid retaliating. Model respectful communication and let your actions reflect who you are.
Benefits:
* Shows children how to handle conflict with dignity.
* Reduces the cycle of negativity.
Risks:
* Children might initially believe the negative comments.
* Emotional toll from not defending yourself directly.
C) Harmful Accusations
Advice: Focus on rational steps to protect yourself and your children, rather than getting caught up in emotional reactions. Document any instances of false accusations and calmly contact child wellfare or lawyer for advice if necessary. Continue to show love and support to your children, reinforcing the truth through your consistent behavior.
Benefits:
* Protects your legal rights.
* Provides a clear, calm and truthfull narrative for your children.
Risks:
* Legal processes can be stressful and time-consuming.
* Potential for escalation if the other parent reacts negatively.
D) Excluded from Holiday Celebrations
Advice: Accept the things you cannot change and create new traditions and find alternative ways to celebrate special occasions with your children. Focus on making these times positive and meaningful.
Benefits:
* Strengthens your bond with your children.
* Reduces feelings of exclusion and disappointment.
Risks:
* Children might feel divided loyalty.
E) Making Kids the Go-Between
Advice: Maintain control over your methods of communication and protect your children from unnecessary stress. Communicate directly with the other parent whenever possible and encourage your children to not bear the burden of being messengers. Utilize written communication (emails, texts) for clarity and record-keeping.
Benefits:
* Reduces stress on your children.
* Keeps communication clear and documented.
Risks:
* Other parent may not cooperate with direct communication.
* Potential for miscommunication or misunderstanding in written form.
F) Financial Neglect
Advice: Take control of your own finances and create a budget based on your resources. Seek legal advice if the lack of cooperation significantly impacts your ability to support or your personal wellbeing.
Benefits:
* Empowers you to manage your financial situation independently.
* Can provide legal protection and ensure fair financial support.
Risks:
* Potential legal costs and stress.
* May require making difficult financial decisions.
That's all. Start with one change and increase as you go along. It may feel weird in the beginning, but just trust the process.... Hope this is of some use to you (and others in same situation).
Alvin
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Hi Hopeful5,
What I'll share below is taken and modified from my personal notes when I was more or less in where you are. So the style etc. may seem bit unusual (but it does prove I am a very systematic thinker, LOL). Any extra additions/comments just for you I have placed inside parenthesis below.
It will get better. But it requires you to focus on you and your behaviour instead of responding to her crazy stuff.
Alvin
Alvin, Wow, I really appreciate your incredibly thoughtful response. There are many of these things I'm doing, and some that I haven't stepped fully into yet. I'll be referencing your list regularly. This is invaluable - Thank you!
I'm not sure what stage I'm in, but I think I'm finally coming to full acceptance that my marriage (as I knew it) is over and that my W is not interested in any form of reconciliation. I spoke with my D lawyer today and he mentioned that it seems like there is a giant wound in our family and it just keeps filling up with puss and popping. And since my W doesn't want to deal with the root issue and fix it, the infection just continues to go deeper the longer things go on. He mentioned that there are many kids who end up resenting a parent who lets toxic situations like mine go on for longer than necessary. He said someone has to cut the head off this snake and deal with the issue. If D is the only option, the quicker the better.
Maybe I'm too cynical (I know I am), but since he's a D lawyer, I just assume his goal is to sell me on a D. Regardless, what he said rang true.
As we've discussed before, I do know that a D will not solve all problems, and that it will create some new ones. I'm not ready to take that step until I've become more financially independent. I'm currently focusing on total detachment and creating a new life , focused on independence and being a great father.
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Maybe I'm too cynical (I know I am), but since he's a D lawyer, I just assume his goal is to sell me on a D. Regardless, what he said rang true.
You're definitely not too cynical. Your D lawyer was selling it to you.
As far as kids and their possible resentment goes.... Its not if but when, regardless of what happens with your marriage. This has been massive traumatic experience to you, and it is even bigger for your kids. Their primitive/undeveloped mind will create very bizarre theories and solutions when trying to understand all the mindfiretruck, and it will also create selfblame and anger just like you have gone through. The same way you have received help from this community and therapist to get your thoughts sorted, your kids too will need some proper guidance. Or else they will make some bad choices.As parent, as father, you need to be there and give them both tools and answers... It's not gonna be easy, but hopefully it will give them solid foundations for future life.
All in all, you are on good route. Becoming independent, building acceptance, taking care of family, and doing mindfull decisions are all essential first steps in securing your future regardless of what happens with your marriage. Now just go slow (and then even slower).
Alvin
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I'm not sure what stage I'm in, but I think I'm finally coming to full acceptance that my marriage (as I knew it) is over and that my W is not interested in any form of reconciliation. I spoke with my D lawyer today and he mentioned that it seems like there is a giant wound in our family and it just keeps filling up with puss and popping. And since my W doesn't want to deal with the root issue and fix it, the infection just continues to go deeper the longer things go on. He mentioned that there are many kids who end up resenting a parent who lets toxic situations like mine go on for longer than necessary. He said someone has to cut the head off this snake and deal with the issue. If D is the only option, the quicker the better.
Maybe I'm too cynical (I know I am), but since he's a D lawyer, I just assume his goal is to sell me on a D. Regardless, what he said rang true.
As we've discussed before, I do know that a D will not solve all problems, and that it will create some new ones. I'm not ready to take that step until I've become more financially independent. I'm currently focusing on total detachment and creating a new life , focused on independence and being a great father.
Take your time. I've spoken with a lawyer and I'm aware of what will happen if I go forward but I know I need time and my wife needs time also.
So far zero indication she is coming back or even really misses the kids and I. It's so bizarre.
No rush. Slow is my advise and that's the advice I was given. So far that was sound advice.
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>>> Go Slow -- Take your time <<<. Good advice. When emotions run high, I so badly want to file for D. I know that won't solve anything in the moment, and I do need this time to begin to rebuild without the pressure of a D. Both me and the kids need some sense of financial stability and a clear path forward once a D is on the table. Right now, a D would just be setting off another bomb. We've had enough of that already. From here on out it's about clarity and making good, healthy decisions that build a better future.
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When emotions run high, I so badly want to file for D.
That is your primitive lizard brain having an anxious knee-jerk reaction. Sadly the lizard brain is always gonna be much faster than your adult brain. The only way out of it is to learn to go slow and be mindful. In the beginning your body will feel anxiety of it (awaiting for beasts to kill you) but it is like a muscle - with discipline and few months of repeat you can reach a state where you can act with sanity and detachment without anxiety. It is good place to be.
Not sure if you are familiar with mindfulness, but it can be really helpful as "cheat sheet" to fight off lizard brain. For example one thing that worked for me was "counting to five" before responding. Another success for me was rule of three - before making any major decision, I paused for 3 minutes, then 3 hours, then 3 days, weeks and ultimately months. It did a world of difference, and often times I discovered major faults in my original thinking. Time is your friend, use it wisely.
You might also check various breathing techniques. They help controlling physical anxiety, which is part of reason why your lizard brain is so reactive.
There is lot you can learn of yourself. And it is not for her or your marriage, but for you and people around you. When you learn about this stuff, it will make your life better day after day for rest of your life, regardless of what happens with your marriage.
Sorry for pouring more "new stuff to learn" for you, LOL.
Alvin
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Not sure if you are familiar with mindfulness, but it can be really helpful as "cheat sheet" to fight off lizard brain. For example one thing that worked for me was "counting to five" before responding. Another success for me was rule of three - before making any major decision, I paused for 3 minutes, then 3 hours, then 3 days, weeks and ultimately months. It did a world of difference, and often times I discovered major faults in my original thinking. Time is your friend, use it wisely.
You might also check various breathing techniques. They help controlling physical anxiety, which is part of reason why your lizard brain is so reactive.
There is lot you can learn of yourself. And it is not for her or your marriage, but for you and people around you. When you learn about this stuff, it will make your life better day after day for rest of your life, regardless of what happens with your marriage.
I didn't think any of this would happen but it's all happening. One day at a time I appreciate my new life and all the amazing people and family I have, my beautiful children. Breathing helped a lot at the beginning also, less so now as my anxiety has dropped off for the time being.
I am bracing for the next BD but I do so with more confidence I can handle it.
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Well... I just discovered via our states online court search that W (now STBXW) filed for divorce a couple of weeks ago. My hunch is that I'll get served papers next week. Strange because I feel like I'm in shock a bit, even thought I've known this would be coming for several months now... I'm not sure if she's told any of the kids yet. She blew up and said some stuff to my youngest 2 several days ago (while I was away) that really made them upset, but they didn't want to tell me, which isn't normal.
She's been acting extra angry / moody since she filed the D, making even more rude comments to me every chance she can get. It's really a treat.
Bad news - My STBXW and marriage collapsed after 23 (what I thought to be) great years of marriage.
Good news - She initiated the D. I really needed this. I don't want anything to do with all of her destruction and inner rage and when my kids are older and the smoke clears, she'll be the one responsible for all of the wreckage left behind. Had this dragged on, I would have initiated the D, but I'm glad I didn't have to.
I'm not sure what to expect moving forward. I'll be retaining my lawyer next week for what lies ahead.
I'm doing my best to keep my mind at peace and know that much of what lies ahead is lawyers work. I'm taking it one step at a time and hope to be a person of joy and stability for my kids through it all. This is a defining moment in my life and my kids. What they remember of me through all of this can be a huge opportunity to show them how to navigate through seemingly terrible situations. Onward!
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Hugs🫂 And definitely onwards. Life will become good some sunny day.
Your next big hurdle is gonna be about kids and parenting. Do you have any ideas what she has planned?
Be prepared that there are no winners in what's ahead.
And don't trust the system too much - as sad as it, as a male you often need to take extra steps to get good deal out of it.
Alvin
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From here on out, there is one thing to keep in mind with regards to your STBXW......
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExeXozOWdrNWUwb2M3aGsweTdsejdkYmR2bXYzbXU3cWp6ejBuZmExMCZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/26FmQhhLuzpIJm2re/giphy.gif)
This is why you have retained and are paying a lawyer
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Hugs🫂 And definitely onwards. Life will become good some sunny day.
Your next big hurdle is gonna be about kids and parenting. Do you have any ideas what she has planned?
Be prepared that there are no winners in what's ahead.
And don't trust the system too much - as sad as it, as a male you often need to take extra steps to get good deal out of it.
Alvin
Thanks Alvin, I have no idea what she has planned. If you want an Idea of what she's like, think of Kathy Bates from Misery. All chipper and charming on the outside, to everybody else. But underneath it, to me -- She's a surprisingly hateful & angry person. There really is no telling what she has planned. I'll certainly be interested to see what her demands & plans are once I'm served papers.
I did notice something interesting... In searching her and my lawyer's court history, I see an overwhelming number of divorces initiated by women. I know the current consensus is that divorces are started by the woman 70% of the time, but from these two lawyers history, it's easily 95% initiated by women. This is coming from one female and one male lawyer.
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Ooh, Kathy's are nasty creatures :o
All in all it might be good to prepare mentally into few extreme demands. Such as
+ Her wanting you to leave the house - don't
+ Her wanting to move another state - oppose legally
+ Her dumping kids fully to you - embrace
+ Her wanting massive alimony - make it into more realistic number
+ Her wanting to keep kids while it's in process - don't, it can take 12+ months and be something that can be used against you.
Etc
Possibly the best advice I got years down the road is that there are no hard rules, but you two make up the rules that work for both of you.
If she is not reasonable, then leaving it to court will likely result best option. Don't offer any of it on silver platter. Like UM wrote, it's strictly business from this point onwards. Hopefully your legals do most of the work for you.
Keep going and support your family/kids through all this. They may not speak a lot of it, but it's affecting them greatly. And don't be afraid to share your emotions to them....You can do it.
Alvin
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Thanks so much everyone - this group has been such an important place of support.
This is a question for those who have been through a divorce with an MLC’er. How did things change post divorce? Was there a sense of relief after having more personal space, or did the MLC’er continue to try and make your life hell?
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Just to clarify - is your question more about how life was experienced by the LBS or more about how/if divorce changed the MLCers behaviour?
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Thanks so much everyone - this group has been such an important place of support.
This is a question for those who have been through a divorce with an MLC’er. How did things change post divorce? Was there a sense of relief after having more personal space, or did the MLC’er continue to try and make your life hell?
Me personally, it gave me relief from the ups and down on the rollercoaster ride. After the divorce, I never heard from him for a long, long time. We don't have children so it made things easier. When children and involved, you cannot avoid contact. For me, it gave me time to heal properly without the drama of my ex. He, on the other hand continued his passion for sport and moved on straight away with a young woman. So that kept him very busy and he didn't bother me anymore. It was of course hard in the beginning, as you grieve for that marriage but the longer you detach yourself from the $h!teload of dramas the better it gets. At least that's what I experienced. It's been almost two years since I got divorced, however it felt longer than that.
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What's the consensus on posting on this site while in the middle of D proceedings? Is it generally thought of as not a good idea or is it fairly safe?
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What's the consensus on posting on this site while in the middle of D proceedings? Is it generally thought of as not a good idea or is it fairly safe?
I think many here have done it; I certainly did, but mine was a one-day mediation. If there are any very specific details that could identify you, leave those out. Or if your ex is shadowing you around the web, that may be reason for pause as well. Otherwise, fire away.
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Just a bit of a rant here as it's been awhile...
The D process is well underway and there's been over $30k spent so far on legal retainer fees between us. My STBXW had very unreasonable demands from the beginning in the D papers with temporary orders that I move out of the house and pay her an ungodlly amount of temp support money. I did agree to move out of the house as it had become a cesspool of tension, but I only ended up paying her a fraction of what she demanded in temporary support money.
Our business is in a very critical spot and running on fumes financially due to a combination of shrinking profit margins and my wife's huge overspending habit, which has drained our business operating funds. We really need to sell the house asap which neither of us will be able to keep, and use some of the funds to pay off some of the business debt so it can continue to operate while the D is in process. But, In typical fashion - My MLC'er STBXW is living in suspicions and delusions that I'm hiding money and that I'm exaggerating the issues that our business is facing, even though she has ALL of our financial information. So, even with a lawyer, she's not communicating and being just as stonewalling, avoidant and unreasonable as without a lawyer. I had really hoped that a lawyer would speak some sense into her.
The only good news so far is that by closing our joint accounts and giving her support money, which limits her spending, I've finally curbed her overspending each month and reduced it by about $5-6k per month.
The sad thing is - If she could communicate like a normal human, we could have went to mediation and finalized a reasonable D within a day and saved tens of thousands of dollars along with a lot of time and stress.
This is all such a circus really. I cannot wait to get past this transitional time and enter into a new phase in life...
Emotionally, I am doing pretty good. Not living with someone who vehemently hates me and will not acknowledge my existence is a breath of fresh air. I sleep better and my time with the kids is focused and meaningful and doesn't have the negative stench of my STBXW in the background.
Rant over... Thank you all for your support.
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Oh man, that's very expensive.
How close are you all to finalizing everything?