[Hopeful5]

Link to old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12027

Starting my new thread. I never thought I'd be the guy with multiple threads on this forum, but here I am!!!

Naming this thread "The Twilight Zone" because that's where I feel like I've been living for the past 2 years. It's like I'm stuck in a fever dream that I can't get out of.  Thanks to everyone here for your kindness and helpfulness through all of this!

[in it]

We are just trying to help.

I googled "do abusers know they are  being abusive ?"

Besides the domestic violence website two more came up you might want to check out.
One was called dayone
The other was speakyourtruth.

 I'm pretty sure they both had assessments. It may help validate what you are going through.

[Hopeful5]

I’ve  began to write out how life might look like moving forward, a life detached or separate from my W. A vision of the future has given me a LOT of hope. Strangely, my wife has accused me of having no purpose in life, and after writing out an independent vision of the future, I see that it is full of depth and purpose. 

[sachertorte]

That's wonderful. One thing I'd noticed is how many LBSes are clear in their life purpose and stick to their guns. Know Thyself types of folks. You go!

[UrsaMajor]

Strangely, my wife has accused me of having no purpose in life, and after writing out an independent vision of the future, I see that it is full of depth and purpose.

Can you say "Projection?"

Or maybe a nomination for the "Stupid WTF MLC excuses for Bomb Drop" competition... to rate right up there with "You let the dog get fat," "You don't vacuum the carpet right," and (my personal favorite) "You don't know how to cook bratwursts correctly."

[Atari25]

Link to old thread https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=12027

Starting my new thread. I never thought I'd be the guy with multiple threads on this forum, but here I am!!!

Naming this thread "The Twilight Zone" because that's where I feel like I've been living for the past 2 years. It's like I'm stuck in a fever dream that I can't get out of.  Thanks to everyone here for your kindness and helpfulness through all of this!

Twilight Zone is right. I use that term a lot. Like you - long marriage and wife re-writing history.

The worst part is my wife blew up our family and carries on in another town and on-line like everything is as it should be and is normal.

[Hopeful5]

Constant criticism of me behind my back to the kids, over every little thing. This is aggravating to no end. I imagine that regardless of a divorce, this will continue to be an issue.  It creates a lot of paranoia and seeps out in the kids attitude toward me. I'm dealing with it now while living in the same house, but post divorce, I'll be dealing with it when I have time with the kids. Has anyone else dealt with this before? If so how did you deal with it?   Even if you haven't dealt with it - I'm open to thoughts regardless.

[WHY]

I watched this unfold over months & months and eventually just snapped.  Told her the courts do not like disparagement.  Explained to her a standard custody agreement includes an anti disparagement clause and breaking it would affect her custody (remember when talking to am MLCer, its all about them, so frame the discussion around them and how their actions affect THEM, they couldnt care less about anyone else).  Told her I would document all issues of disparagement going forward and go to war over it legally as its in the best interest of the kids and they need to be protected.

The disparagement appears to have stopped for the last few weeks (or its being done more stealthfully, time will tell).

This was not an empty threat.  This was a hard boundary which I'm prepared to go to the ends of the earth to enforce.   Dont mess with my kids...

[sachertorte]

I am so sorry you are going through this. My daughter was already mid-teen so things were much easier. But ex was very angry toward me, sometimes even when she was around. And he did disparage me, I think.

My solution worked wonders for us, YMMV. Ex was the divorce initiator, so he was quite fearful DD would not forgive him. He was also terrified I would tell her about his affair, so fear made him mean and reckless at times. He was picking fights with me, being disdainful and irrational, probably unconsciously hoping I would lose control and lash out back. Then he would have proof I deserved divorce and worse. He wanted justification in the eyes of the world and DD's in particular.

You can’t love them back into the marriage, but you may be able to love them to a peaceable divorce that spares the kids as much as humanly possible.

I told DD “Dad is brave to leave because he wants happiness. I am brave to stay because I want to protect our family. We are both right. I wish him the best and will always love him.” I never wavered.

He wouldn’t give me the itinerary when he traveled with her overseas for weeks. He cussed me out when an appliance broke down right before our house showing.

What takes the cake: When she had suicide ideation, he blamed it on me initially and said he was thinking about having the court assign a psychologist, whose approval I need for every single thing I say to DD.

I always told him regarding DD: We have a problem together. I am sorry for whatever role I’d played in her pain. Yes, you’re right; a lot of this must be my fault. Some of it is the very nature of divorce, and I am sorry things got to this point. (God knows I wasn't being manipulative; it was all too true.)

It worked rapidly with DD. She quickly realized I was always there. I did not date. She saw how much I loved and cared for both of them. He was robbed of all ammunition. The worst things he could tell her about me were that I did not come to the dinner table sometimes because I stayed in the kitchen preparing food to make sure every dish arrived hot. He said that showed I did not make him a priority.

DD is a very bright kid; we always taught her to think for herself. She can draw her own conclusions.

Our divorce was cheap and amicable. Most of it was mediated; the lawyers brought in at the very end (I dragged my feet a bit and he understandably lost patience) made very little money. I got a bit less than I probably could have gotten – maybe 15% less? But he has been very generous with her.

He was largely rid of guilt around her because of my heartfelt praise. Hence the financial generosity and, much more importantly, his increasing loving attention as the MLC fog fades over the last 4 years since divorce.

DD has truly flourished. Don’t get me wrong; she still has the hardest time sometimes, and I am lucky I can work remotely and spend extended amounts of time with her. But things could have been far worse.

Love is never squandered. Love is noble, beautiful, brave, kind and good. I thank my XH, ultimately, for having loved me so well that, when I needed to draw on my inner reserves, they were overflowing with love.

I hope this helps.

[AlvinTheMaker]

Constant criticism of me behind my back to the kids, over every little thing. This is aggravating to no end. I imagine that regardless of a divorce, this will continue to be an issue.  It creates a lot of paranoia and seeps out in the kids attitude toward me. I'm dealing with it now while living in the same house, but post divorce, I'll be dealing with it when I have time with the kids. Has anyone else dealt with this before? If so how did you deal with it?   Even if you haven't dealt with it - I'm open to thoughts regardless.

Hi Hopeful5,

I gotta admit that learning REBT and stoicism did change my course with parental alienation for better.  It is not the be-all-end-all type of solution, but it will improve things massively when you repeat the practises consistently again and again

What I'll share below is taken and modified from my personal notes when I was more or less in where you are. So the style etc. may seem bit unusual (but it does prove I am a very systematic thinker, LOL).  Any extra additions/comments just for you I have placed inside parenthesis below.

It will get better. But it requires you to focus on you and your behaviour instead of responding to her crazy stuff.
 

----
Core principles

1) Recognize and accept the limits of your control over the other parent's actions.
(This can be hard pill to swallow, but you really have no options with this one. )

2) Strive to be the best parent you can be, regardless of external challenges.
(This is pretty much what being the lighthouse is all about. But it's not for your W, but to yourself and your kids. )

3) Develop inner strength and resilience to handle the emotional and practical difficulties that arise.
(Like I said, this is not be-all-end-all type of solution. You will encounter some hard times even years down the road.)

4) Focus on the long-term well-being of your children and your own peace of mind.
(Following stoic advice will help building solid relationships with your children and your own self/integrity.)



A)  Undermining Parental Authority
Advice: Focus on your own actions and responses and accept that you cannot control the other parent's actions.Continue to enforce your rules and principles consistently when you are with your children.

Benefits:
* Demonstrates stability and reliability to your children.
* Maintains your own integrity and standards.

Risks:
* Children might feel caught between conflicting rules.
* Potential for increased tension with the other parent.


B) Badmouthing
Advice:  Your reputation is shaped by your actions, not by what others say about you. Avoid retaliating. Model respectful communication and let your actions reflect who you are.

Benefits:
* Shows children how to handle conflict with dignity.
* Reduces the cycle of negativity.

Risks:
* Children might initially believe the negative comments.
* Emotional toll from not defending yourself directly.


C) Harmful Accusations
Advice: Focus on rational steps to protect yourself and your children, rather than getting caught up in emotional reactions. Document any instances of false accusations and calmly contact child wellfare or lawyer for advice if necessary. Continue to show love and support to your children, reinforcing the truth through your consistent behavior.

Benefits:
* Protects your legal rights.
* Provides a clear, calm and truthfull narrative for your children.

Risks:
* Legal processes can be stressful and time-consuming.
* Potential for escalation if the other parent reacts negatively.


D) Excluded from Holiday Celebrations
Advice: Accept the things you cannot change and create new traditions and find alternative ways to celebrate special occasions with your children. Focus on making these times positive and meaningful.

Benefits:
* Strengthens your bond with your children.
* Reduces feelings of exclusion and disappointment.

Risks:
* Children might feel divided loyalty.


E) Making Kids the Go-Between
Advice: Maintain control over your methods of communication and protect your children from unnecessary stress. Communicate directly with the other parent whenever possible and encourage your children to not bear the burden of being messengers. Utilize written communication (emails, texts) for clarity and record-keeping.

Benefits:
* Reduces stress on your children.
* Keeps communication clear and documented.

Risks:
* Other parent may not cooperate with direct communication.
* Potential for miscommunication or misunderstanding in written form.



F) Financial Neglect
Advice: Take control of your own finances and create a budget based on your resources. Seek legal advice if the lack of cooperation significantly impacts your ability to support or your personal wellbeing.

Benefits:
* Empowers you to manage your financial situation independently.
* Can provide legal protection and ensure fair financial support.

Risks:
* Potential legal costs and stress.
* May require making difficult financial decisions.


That's all. Start with one change and increase as you go along. It may feel weird in the beginning, but just trust the process.... Hope this is of some use to you (and others in same situation).

Alvin