Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Midlife Crisis => Our Community => Topic started by: mama4 on June 03, 2024, 12:48:05 PM
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Hello and thank you for reading my story. I am barely functioning today and I know writing this all out here will be a good re-set and I will be able to attend to the many tasks at hand.
I'm 47, MLCer is 45. We have been together 25 years and married for 19 years. We share 4 children, DS17, DD16, DS12, DS9 and a rambunctious adopted puppy who was a stray and has some unique behaviors.
First 6 years: perfect, happy, lovely! MLC was deployed to combat, came back 7 months later with a blank stare. Left again for 13 months. The rest of who he was died over there. He suffered a severe traumatic brain injury.
We did a lot of work to help him address his trauma. He abandoned the work and became an alcoholic and started up with AP. By this time, we had two small children, aged 18 months and 5 months. We separated when I found out about AP for nearly a year. He worked on his issues. We found a way back to each other.
Fast forward through the happy years to 2013. MLC's father passes away at 61 after a short cancer battle. MLC fell apart. New AP, more drinking and really monstering behaviors.
We had 3 kids at that point and lived thousands of miles from both of our families of origin. He cycled back to better choices and got help for his drinking. We were happy as a couple and a family. Baby #4 came along and we moved near my family of origin. His mom remarried and moved near us. MLC went off the rails again and has been cycling through the MLC stages since 2019.
My mom went into septic shock and almost died in March 2019, followed by round the clock care, rehab, etc. We live next door. I help out a ton. My younger sister and Dad live with my mom and took the lead on care. MIL's second husband left her. She moved in with us. MLC went much deeper into the tunnel. Lots of going out and drinking and anger.
August 2020, one of my older sisters, her 4 kids and husband survived a head on car collision but were all hospitalized and near death for months. I took over much of the care, continued to work my demanding job and care for our 4 children the best I could. My mom was more independent by this time and my 2 other sisters helped more than I did. In Nov 2020, my younger sister, at only 41, was diagnosed with terminal cancer. Our care shifted to her until her death in my arms on June 20, 2023.
BD #1: 9-9-22 : MLC informs me ILYBINILWY and proposes a loveless marriage until youngest moves out. He kicks me out of the master, and has terrifying fits of rage. He took my diamond engagement ring after telling me I don't deserve it.
His list of complaints: I don't pay enough attention to him, I'm fat (was 130 pounds at the time, am 105 now---5 ft 7 in tall)---in the past 2 years he went from 180 pounds to 275 pounds---, he wants to buy I house and I won't do it (I have looked at houses with him and would gladly buy one), I'm bad at sex.
I started learning about MLC and using environment changer (Larry Bilotta) to understand what was happening and how to survive this mess.
MLC was leaving to go to his friend's house for days/weeks at a time but always came home.
He didn't talk about any of this with the kids and I just carried on. I kept communication brief and reciprocated love when he initiated and acted like the man I fell in love with. Otherwise, business like and brief.
These visits continued until September 2023.
In December 2022, our oldest heard is father yelling out someone on the phone that if he wouldn't see them tomorrow, before their trip, he would break up with them. DS and I asked him about it and he flew into a violent rage. He spent the night in a hotel.
I kept everything cordial and positive. I carried on. I enjoyed our kids and loved them and worked hard at my job. I ride my bike to nowhere daily and make it to YOGA several times per week.
Thanksgiving 2023, he tells my sister he loves me in front of me when she tells him her husband just left her. Her husband had nearly died in the car accident I mentioned earlier and had suffered a traumatic brain injury. His personality is very altered.
I was shocked to hear MLC loves me and we hugged. No relationship talk but he did say he had been wanting to tell me for months.
In March 2024, my engagement ring was back in my jewelry box and he was asking me on dinner dates weekly. I found our time together to be fun and more like I remembered we could be. We were having sex 1+ times weekly throughout this entire time (less than prior to 2022 but never stopped completely) but I haven't had access to our bedroom since 2022. I sleep in the guest room.
No talk of our relationship.
April 2024, the dinner invitations end after we spend dinner with an old friend of his he hadn't seen in over a decade.
In May 2024, he reconnected with my family and joined us for a big event, even preparing food for it. He seemed himself for the first time in many years.
This past week, he was agitated with the kids and I.
Yesterday, he let me know we are getting divorced, that he is moving out today and we will tell the kids sometime this week. He told me he hated going out with me this past March, that I have no personality and he can't connect with me. He said there is nothing for him here.
His other complaints were: that I spend too much time with my family of origin, I let our daughter get her license without his permission (I have no idea what he's talking about), I'm bad at sex, and that my credit score is low (I guess he checked it and why is this a thing?)
He is monstering and it's brutal.
Just when I thought things were finally getting better, he's gone.
I can't help hearing the childhood song in my head------"You can't ride in my red wagon, the wheels are broken and the axel's sagging, same song, same verse, a little bit louder and a little bit worse" (other verses use different voices, etc)
How is he cycling through anger again!?
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Welcome to HS, sorry you have to be here. You have had many situations over the years to contend with as well as 4 children to raise (and a rambunctious puppy).
My first thought when I was reading your story is the PTSD that your husband has from serving in the military. My father was a POW during WWII of the Japanese and he struggled his whole life with PTSD. Although better understood now, treatment is still hit and miss.
As you probably already know, trauma causes biochemical changes in the brain. As you said, the rest of who he was died over there.
A traumatic brain injury, alcoholism, several family deaths and losses...a mixture of several things, several stresses that he cannot deal with.
Whatever the title you put on it, the loss of your husband and destruction of your family is happening.
You cannot help him, you cannot change him, you cannot fix him or cure him. You seem to be the type opf women who is always there for others, a caretaker.
So, my only "advice" is focus on taking care of yourself and your children...let him go. Heartsblessing used to say "let them go and crack their head in the wind".
I am not saying this lightly. I have been standing for my marriage for 15 years..pretty rare on this site. The man he was is not the man he is today, still there is love for him and I try and make things comfortable so that we can and do spend time together with our daughter and son in law..because this is still a family, but a very broken one.
I too practice yoga and have build a life for myself that is "satisfactory"...but it is lonely as I don't live near my family.
The back and forth from your husband is exhausting. One moment he loves you and you are having nice times together then he tells you the complete opposite.
You are NOT the things he is telling you. That you are fat or bad at sex.
There are actually several threads devoted to the things MLCers say, the blame they place on us for their own pain.
Sometimes we need to avoid contact with them because it's too darn painful. I have been able to work hard at being around him (he's a long time clinging boomeranger) as I won't allow him to take my peace from me...because this is his crisis, I am collateral damage for sure......but his acitons are not because of me....
Thanks for sharing your story. Sometimes it helps to be able to talk it out to others. This site has helped thousands in their healing journey.
Hopefully you have a good therapist that can also give you the tools you need to heal.
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Thank you xyzcf
I appreciate your response so much. I will do as you recommend and will stand for our children and attempt to begin healing. There is radical acceptance ahead for my journey and I need to embrace it. My children are everything and they are him and me and themselves and need to know they are loved beyond measure.
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I am very sorry for the long list of losses and strains that you have navigated over the last ten years or so. It sounds unimaginably hard. And the one thing that seems to be true is that disordered folks - whatever the cause - can suck up so much emotional and mental energy that one can almost forget one’s own strains and pains.
I am sorry too about his latest announcement. I am sure that this feels like a bad thing to you, a step back, but I would humbly suggest that it is possible that it might also give you some space to change the pattern and care for yourself now. Sometimes, a bit like running a marathon maybe, we don’t always realise how exhausted we are until we stop.
As Xyzcf says, you sound as if you have been doing a lot of caretaking of others. Perhaps after so long it has become a pattern for you and changing one’s own patterns as circumstances change can feel a bit scary and confusing. Do you have an IC? Bc it can be very helpful to be able to think out loud and use someone else’s lens in a safe place while you try to adapt.
And please consult a lawyer if you have not already done so. Your h sounds as if he has a history - again regardless of the reasons - of creating chaos and instability. And that makes you and your family at risk from being collateral damage from his actions. You are obviously a kind and loving person but, as my gran used to say, no need to be so kind that your brains fall out lol. You are not responsible for his behaviour, it isn’t your fault. But you also can’t control it or him, so fwiw, take legal advice pronto on all the most important basic stuff…keeping a roof over your head, the safety of you and your kids dealing with a raging man, custody, protecting yourself against debt being run up in your name etc etc. that’s the equivalent of getting you and your kids into a storm shelter while the hurricane rages imho. You may or may not choose to act on legal advice and it can vary depending on where you live, but information can also give you options.
Hug from all of us from here.
We know how hard and painful this is.
We also know that it can get easier and better even if it takes longer than we might wish.
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Thank you, Treasur,
I appreciate the kind words and solid advice very much. It has been a long time cycling with him and I'm exhausted and more than ready to get off the roller coaster.
I am working on accepting the hard truth that I likely helped him stay in this miserable cycle by making things comfortable. I hope he gets the help he deserves and finds what he needs, but, not to worry because I am not in charge of his journey. If I keep repeating this, I will embrace it.
Our road has been a long one, almost 20 years in fact since he returned from combat and really showed signs of PTSD. Some of the work we did helped in the short term, but HIS internal struggle was never addressed and he has concluded that if I am out of the picture, he will feel better.
He hasn't chosen to get better and until he does, he won't actually get better. AND I have to learn to accept that he may never choose to get better, especially if there is a replacement relationship/alienator that is driving this change of residence and divorce filing.
When our dog passed away last year, he rationalized that if he got a new dog, he would be happy. I retorted that happy is on the inside and he told me I am the only one who believes that.
So, we adopted a 70 pound chocolate lab with massive behavior and aggression challenges and he was not happy. He has left the dog too.
We are going to be OK, I know we will. Detach. Breathe. Repeat.
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Why is he home?
He is literally at our family home already.
Omg
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I am so, so sorry you are going through this. I am a LBS (f) and you seem to me an absolute gem. Frankly, your H has not deserved you for the last ten years (or even longer; it sounds like he started openly cheating 14 years ago?). That is an awfully long time even on this forum!
I very much admire your nobility and the incredible expanse of your heart. I am also appaled by how much tragedy has hit you. You have been a miracle to your loved ones, and I sincerely hope it's all peace, health and joy for you onward.
Your H sounds like a clingy boomerang, as we call them here. This is just a guess on my part and I can be way off of course, but you seem to be so much further along than a lot of us when we were newbies. In being detached and clear-sighted, I mean.
Take care of yourself. We share the same journey, with an infinite variety we each work into our own.
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Hi Mama and welcome to the club that nobody wants to join. I am glad for you that you join us, you have been through a lot !
His list of complaints: I don't pay enough attention to him, I'm fat (was 130 pounds at the time, am 105 now---5 ft 7 in tall)---in the past 2 years he went from 180 pounds to 275 pounds---, he wants to buy I house and I won't do it (I have looked at houses with him and would gladly buy one), I'm bad at sex.
this is the biggest (heaviest ;D) projection I have ever read !
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FrenchHusband,
Thank you, I actually laughed at your response, it was spot on. I needed to laugh, thank you!
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Hi Mama and welcome to the club that nobody wants to join. I am glad for you that you join us, you have been through a lot !
His list of complaints: I don't pay enough attention to him, I'm fat (was 130 pounds at the time, am 105 now---5 ft 7 in tall)---in the past 2 years he went from 180 pounds to 275 pounds---, he wants to buy I house and I won't do it (I have looked at houses with him and would gladly buy one), I'm bad at sex.
this is the biggest (heaviest ;D) projection I have ever read !
Her BMI is better than Adriana Lima’s……
Based on this fact alone. In gonna go out on a limb and say it. MLCers are absolutely effing bonkers.
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His list of complaints: I don't pay enough attention to him, I'm fat (was 130 pounds at the time, am 105 now---5 ft 7 in tall)---in the past 2 years he went from 180 pounds to 275 pounds---, he wants to buy I house and I won't do it (I have looked at houses with him and would gladly buy one), I'm bad at sex.
All that is missing here is that you "don't vacuum the floors correctly, cook Bratwursts properly and that you let the dog get fat." Otherwise, it reads like our of "Stupid Excuses Mid-Lifers make up to justify their actions" list
How is he cycling through anger again!?
I would venture to suggest that he never STOPPED cycling.... He just wasn't as overt about it.... Possibly resorted instead to passive-aggressive behaviours or self-medication? Or that he had departed the "anger" stage temporarily and was cycling through depression/limerence? Who knows?
Tell me what green tastes like by dipping your elbow in a pot of it.... You will have about the same rate of success as figuring out why an MLC'er is doing what they do at any point in time..... Rather than speculate, you are likely to be better served by watching what his feet are doing (pay no attention to the mouth behind the green curtain because it is ALL just
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExbzhibXg5djZjOXk0djE1bGFpYjZtcWh5czFidW9pOGo5enBwZmljZyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/lqSMNaqZbJSesdWxTD/giphy.gif) to justify their actions to themselves and their enablers
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I am so grateful for your responses......things I know and have told others, and can't seem to practice in the moment. It has been such a long journey already and he seemed to really be himself. This is sudden and unexpected and I KNOW it sets the timeline back to day one of what feels like a million years already.
He was charming, playful, and kind, and then BAM! He is moving out, is divorcing me and it's all my fault. I'm still shaking and it's been nearly a week. He said these things on Saturday night (very late) and asked me to respond and to stop ignoring him. I said I love him and don't want this. He flew into a rage and said I don't love him and he doesn't want to hear it.
Very pleasant on Sunday, then mean and angry, then gone. He said he would be back on Wednesday, was back on Monday night. I didn't initiate conversation and have been super busy with work and kid activities in the evenings. Lots of angry texting on Tuesday and Wednesday, then he followed me around asking for my attention after work last night. He wanted to be intimate, I did not. He persisted, and then was loving and kind.
This morning, he sent a huge text that he is leaving again because I don't take him seriously and ignore him. From the reading I've done, it sounds like a pleasure/pain cycle that he has cast me in as the leading role.
He is right, I normally ignore his ranting texts, unless there is a question to answer pertaining to our children. I did respond to this one, however, using active listening to acknowledge each point and demonstrate gratitude that he shared his thoughts with me.
I am at a complete and total loss. How do I navigate this?
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Thank you all for ghh hi rowing me a life preserver.
After work, I went to a Vinyasa class and then took the younger two sons out to dinner. I visited with my parents and played outside with the boys. Our oldest came home from baseball and we are watching a movie for a little bit before bed and making oatmeal raisin cookies
Our daughter is at camp until Sunday.
Lots of baseball tomorrow. It will be super fun!!
MLC is gone again, until TBD.
I need to move forward, and let him go to crack his head in the wind. What a great phrase!
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Are you afraid of him?
Or afraid of what might happen if/when you say No and stick to it?
Or in your mind does his TBI or other troubles somehow give him a behavioural hall pass?
I ask bc a lot of your last post seemed to be about your taking a lot of abuse and appeasing him so he cycles out of his rage. That pleasure/pain cycle you mentioned. From the cheap seats, quite a lot of red flags of abuse here tbh. Announcing your long list of horribleness and that he’s going to move out and divorce you, then raging bc you won’t pick up his calls and chat. Then raging again when you do. Coming and going as he pleases with no regards for anyone else. ‘Persisting’ - whatever that means - when you said no to sex. Angry texts. Followed by you ‘thanking’ him for ‘sharing his thoughts’. And off he flounces again. Rinse and repeat. At random. Regardless of what you do or say.
I don’t say this to criticise or judge you, just to say that this is NOT normal, not good and that it certainly looks and sounds like abuse. You’ve been dealing with this man’s chaos, control, periodic infidelity and instability off and on for a long time now. It’s not unusual that it can start to feel like normal after such a long time. (I wonder if the very title of your thread and your coming here to post - although I could be wrong - suggests that some bit of you knows this in your bones)
But it really truly isn’t normal. And it’s not what most of us would call a good healthy kind of love. Even a basic kind of like tbh. It just isn’t.
On top of that tbh, abuse is a shill game. One of those ones where the cup with the marble always moves. The core of a shill game is to keep us off balance and to keep us playing the next time. And the one after that.
So, my big question for you is do you think you are being abused by him? Bc if you do in your heart - painful as that is to acknowledge - then your priority changes towards doing whatever you need to do to remove yourself and your kids from being abused, disrespected and playing the shill game.
I don’t know if you are ready to see it that way. Or if you want to live differently enough to make a different path forward. If you do - and you won’t be the first LBS here who has had to look at this - we can help you figure out steps to do that. If you’re not, and we understand all the reasons why you might not be, we can still support you but our ability to help will be limited.
Bc tbh the shill game of abuse is controlled by the abuser. Nothing you say or do, as I hope you can see from your own last but one post, changes it. Bc it isn’t created by you, about you or fixable by you. It only stops when you decide to take consistent steps to walk away from the game. And those steps are painful, big and potentially scary in their own right. We get that. And only you can decide what is acceptable to you as a way to live and what is not.
What do you want, my friend?
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I don't want to hijack this thread. Just want to applaud Treasur's invaluable post above. Thank you so much Treasur.
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I don't want to hijack this thread. Just want to applaud Treasur's invaluable post above. Thank you so much Treasur.
Agreed. I am humbled and grateful for the generous gift you took the time to give me by writing it.
Everything you wrote is accurate. Nothing will change until I commit to a different journey. Years have proven this.
There’s a sign that I put up in a hallway at work that says
Face your fears
Funny that I can hang it on the wall and ignore it.
I am afraid of divorce because to me it means I failed.
I need to face my fears
Because I know what’s worse than failing……continuing this ugly dance.
Thank you
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Just reading up on your story, so sorry you’re here. I would say that if you get a divorce it’s not you that failed it’s a failure in the relationship level. It takes two to make a relationship work so I would say it’s not all on you. In the case of MLC it’s not even a relationship issue, the issue(s) are internal to the MLCer. Please be gentle with yourself. I struggle with this as well, if only I would have hugged her that one time or bought flowers every week this wouldn’t be happening. It seems like this would have happened if I bought all the flowers on the planet.
On the fridge we have a magnet that says ‘Life is Tough but you are Tougher!’, after going through this journey(and still going!) I believe I am a lot tougher then I once was, and you are tougher then you know.
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Hi Mama,
Sorry you are going through this. I, similar to you, thought things were on the other side and then only to be back at what I thought we were passed.
It is a very tricky journey and one that is full of ups and downs.
As others have mentioned, this is all about what they need to work on in themselves and it sucks that so many of us find ourselves in this place. These boards are a great reminder that it’s them, not you.
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Treasur surely has things in perspective.
You do not have to put up with abuse. He loses a little more respect for you every time he gets his way. This is continuing to hurt you. You can stop it.
The word is no..two letters... one word.
You will not have failed sweetie, you deserve some peace.
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I am afraid of divorce because to me it means I failed.
I humbly disagree.... YOU did NOT fail. HE Failed by cheating, by being abusive, etc. You are NOT responsible for his actions and there is NOTHING in this world that makes YOU responsible.... unless, of course, you were sitting there with a gun to his head telling him he had to do <xyz> I have the sneaking suspicion that this was likely NOT the case....
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Navigating the demanding schedules of four kids, all athletes who travel regularly, on my own, while trying to work, provide some kind of family summer vacation, care for the dog and mitigate big emotions the kids are experiencing has been tough. But I’m tougher. My parents and sisters are super supportive and kind and I’m grateful for a slower pace at work for the summer months.
He left again, super sweet and filled with kindness, then gone for going on four days with no explanation and zero contact with the kids (and I).
It doesn’t matter, he’s not honest anyway so better he doesn’t make up stories. He retreats to “Jeremy’s” by doesn’t realize I bumped into him a few years ago and he told me he hadn’t seen H since our wedding 19 years ago.
H had literally been at his place all weekend the days before we happened on each other and is still sticking with that story three years later.
He didn’t go to Jeremy’s from August-late May and was spending time with me, we even got pedicures and went out to dinner every Friday night. It was like we were dating.
I suspect his OW (or OM—Jeremy) is married too and likely comes in and out of his life and when they are out he centers on me.
I had an intake appointment today with a therapist who specializes in trauma and divorce. It’s long overdue that I move on.
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Well done on setting up that appointment! That’s a big (maybe slightly scary) but important step.
I am glad that your family is so close and that they are supportive for you and your kids. I’m also conscious that your whole family has had a lot of trauma and grief recently, quite apart from your h’s antics. Have you read the book ‘The Body Keeps The Score’? One of the many very useful points it makes about trauma is that our bodies feel things - like the anniversary of your sister’s death just a year ago - even when our brain is not conscious of it. June must be a hard time for all of your family.
But sometimes these residues also create a desire to move out of limbo, a sort of unspoken ‘enough’ feeling. Hard to describe in words but you know it when you get a whiff of it. I think you know that the current situation will change when/if you decide to change it. Finding a decent therapist who understands trauma and the baby steps one takes to healing can help.
Have you taken legal advice on what your options are if you decide to stop your h coming and going without explanation as he pleases? Or what happens if you say ‘enough of this’? Or how to protect you and your kids practically and financially from whatever he is doing at ‘Jeremy’s’ ? You don’t have to act on it but getting legal information where you live can help you understand your possible options, constraints and obligations.
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PS and I’d suggest it is time for you to reclaim the main bedroom if you wish and if you haven’t already done so. If you are not yet ready to say no to his comings and goings, let him sleep in the guest room - you really shouldn’t be sleeping like a guest in your own home when, after all, HE is the one who keeps leaving.
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Thank you Treasur,
This is very helpful. I will read the body keeps score next. I have been managing stress with yoga, the bike, running and lots of swimming with the kids. I don’t focus on what he’s doing anymore, although it sounds like I am from what I wrote yesterday. I did learn that while it looked like he was navigating back to the family for the past several months, it abruptly came to an end. I don’t see myself opening up to the idea of his return again. He doesn’t want to be here and we operate much better when he is not.
We hosted a one year memorial service and reception for my sister and it was beautiful. I miss her so much!!
His antics during this incredibly hard time solidifies that he is not a safe partner for me and never will be.
I’m not in the master bedroom yet. I worry he will come home in the middle of the night (he has before).
I want him fully out and a new bed before I possibly move into that space again.
I will seek legal advice next. I was hoping to avoid that but I can’t.
Thank you so much, this is a good place to be.
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On the returning in the night thing? There may well be legal reasons why you can’t change the locks yet - a question to ask when you see a lawyer perhaps - but have you considered fitting a key chain inside on the door that is used last thing at night. Not an unreasonable or abnormal security choice to secure the door when you have all gone up to bed anyway. Last person up locks the door and hooks the chain.
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While he didn’t say specifically when he would return, he had texted me plans for yesterday today and tomorrow.
He showed up at our home yesterday evening.
Helped himself to dinner and offered to take kids to afternoon events (which he did).
He was sweet to me and pleasant to our kids, interested in their lives and kind to them.
He is still here and it’s the Fourth, a time when he usually melts down (he is a combat Veteran).
He offered to help with the extended family BBQ (he usually avoids my side of the family).
He let me know he has an appointment with the VA on Friday afternoon.
I didn’t ask him what it was for.
I realize he creates chaos. I am creating calm.
Glad I have a therapy appointment next week. I’m looking forward to a healthier path.
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Yesterday was really fun for our kids and their dad even connected with them for a short time. Then they all met friends at different locations for fireworks. I stayed back with H and our dog who both hate the sound of fireworks. When they went to bed I joined our younger two and their friends parents for sparklers.
It was so fun! H went into work today when he usually works from home on Fridays. This is his pattern, getting close to showing up and then retreating. I suspect he will take another trip next week.
I scheduled a consultation with a divorce lawyer to understand the process and next steps for me to take. It will be good to hear from an expert and have a clear path forward.
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Hi mama,
I am glad that he was able to connect with the kids yesterday. This is hard for the LBS to handle perhaps, but I do see benefits in being able to be together as a "family" albeit a very broken one.
Also happy that you will be seeing a therapist that deals with trauma, for that is what we have also encountered through this.
He is still here and it’s the Fourth, a time when he usually melts down (he is a combat Veteran).
So many veterans suffer from PTSD, it is heartbreaking. My dad was a POW during WWII for 3 1/2 years so I lived my whole life with someone who had PTSD...not well diagnosed back then. Looking back, there were times he was fine, but other times when he was disconnected from us and a couple of hospitalizations for "breakdowns".
This is his pattern, getting close to showing up and then retreating.
Very typical behavior. Makes it confusing for the LBSer because they can be quite sweet and kind one day and totally different the next.
I scheduled a consultation with a divorce lawyer to understand the process and next steps for me to take. It will be good to hear from an expert and have a clear path forward.
I will try and find a thread where many LBSers wrote about the things they needed to discuss with the lawyers....for example, I was covered under his medical insurance because we were legally separated, not divorced...legal separation was offered in my state which divided all the assets, determined maitenenace payments and kept me on his health insurance...9 years after he sent me a text saying he was divorcing me...no reason given but took me of health insurance...I should have stipulated in the separation agreement that he would be responsible for paying for medical insurance until I was 65 and could go on medicare. Things like who remains as the beneficiary on life insurance plans and several other things that the lawyers do not always catch.
Lawyers charge for every email, telephone call and it all adds up so make sure you have a list of things you need to have answered as well you can prepare in advance by searching on the internet what you need to know.
Some lawyers will pressure you perhaps into doing something you are not comfortable with.....my lawyer promised me she would get me a much bigger settlement than I ended up with. Between the two of us, our legal separation cost $50,000 13 years ago...and it really was not all that complicated but it was shocking.
A divorce is necessary or a legal separation to protect assets, determine child custody but may not give you the closure you seek.
And in my case, it did nothing to change the level of contact he continues to maintain with me. I really did not want to be "divorced"....those words make me cringe inside but I had no choice as this is a no fault state.
I'll look later to see if I can find that link.
Take care, this is really hard on us and our children.
Here is one thread I found with comments from others about what we need to know about our legal rights.
https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=7209.0
"Quote from: Ready2Transform on November 04, 2015, 09:44:26 AM
I want to say that we should develop a bit of a financial checklist. Of course, all situations will be unique, but certainly there must be at least 5 questions we all asked ourselves (or wish we had) before starting the process of financial protection.
Is my spouse contributing to mortgage/rent willingly?
Is my spouse contributing to the support of the children willingly?
Do I have transportation?
Has my ability to provide basic needs like food/utilities/school expenses for the kids changed?
Do I have my own bank account, or am I totally dependent on a joint account that I could lose access to?
Do I have my own means of taking care of phone/insurance should those suddenly be revoked?
Is my spouse accruing debts that are also my legal responsibility but not to my benefit?
What's my career status and what needs to happen to earn a wage that would cover all of this?
What's my base level monthly incoming/outgoing, with and without my spouse?
Maybe if we established something like this and encouraged them to know the answers to these questions (maybe there are friends and family that could help with some aspects, or they could start moving in the direction of getting some schooling), that would be at least a temporary answer that could keep papers from being filed."
One other piece of advice I was given by a lawyer was to keep track of all my expenses over a 6 month period, everything, hair cuts, groceries, entertainment, household bills to help determine what I needed to live. Also to make copies of all tax records, insurance policies and investment statements.
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Mama,
Usually your first appointment with an attorney is free. My entire divorce cost less than 3K. I agree that being organized helps.
It is really helpful to know what things look like in your state by at least getting a consult. Knowledge is good, even when things are painful.
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Thank you
This is very helpful. I am grateful that the financial piece is not a source of stress. I’m the bread winner and always have been. He did start working a few years ago but makes less than half of my salary.
I am the record keeper, have all documents for both of us and have always prepared and filed taxes for our family.
His combat PTSD has impacted his level of function for several years and I have been in a caretaker role for a long time.
My kids love their dad and know he has “issues” (they concluded, I don not focus on his stuff).
He stands a lot to lose financially and he knows. My sister thinks this is why he hasn’t left entirely and anchor checks often.
But I still sleep on the floor and allow this circus.
I can only change me and this is the time for it.
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I can only change me and this is the time for it.
You know when the time is right for you. You feel it internally.
I’m the bread winner and always have been. He did start working a few years ago but makes less than half of my salary.
Just keep in mind, he might be entitled to some of your earnings if you make more than him.
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Thank you! All good points.
H followed me around a bit this morning and kept sitting near me rubbing his brow and leaning over.
He asked me to scratch his back and I did.
After several minutes he said he was having a lot of depression, anxiety and anger and was staying away from us so we would haven’t to deal with it.
I said
I’m sorry
How can I help?
He said
You can’t
He waited for me to leave with two kids for baseball for the rest and told our teenage daughter he was going shooting.
This is the biggest conversation we have had in nearly two years.
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It’s our wedding anniversary. I’m looking at pictures and we look so happy.
I remember all of the happiness and joy.
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He wished me a happy anniversary and hugged and kissed me.
He hasn’t said anything on our anniversary in several years.
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Mama,
Nothing wrong with remembering something as joyous and happy, these are good memories, they are real and you experienced them and can remember how those moments felt. That's a good thing.
Where some of our spouses are now is they can no longer relate to that feeling. It's strange, you or I can see a photo of happy times and know exactly how we felt at that time and have all those feelings back in an instant - it just takes a photo, a smell, a place or a song.
Unfortunately MLC robs our loved ones of these feelings somehow - which is a real tragedy.
Someone here suggested I celebrate my anniversary on my own as something really lovely that I can remember every detail of, and was real and worth celebrating for all the good times I can remember - I loved that advice
B x
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He wished me a happy anniversary and hugged and kissed me.
He hasn’t said anything on our anniversary in several years.
Hugs xx
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Thank you for the kindness.
Lots of ups and downs but I am only allowing the joy.
I am thinking about filing for divorce a lot and will write a list of steps and deadlines so I can get moving.
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Journaling
He took me out for a lovely dinner last night and was talkative and very much himself the entire time.
I relaxed and engaged in the experience like I was having dinner with an old friend.
No relationship talk at all.
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It’s the chaos, he is comfortable with it and is uncomfortable with everything else.
Loving support, loyalty, a functional family, all of it is upsetting to him.
He creates chaos.
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It’s the chaos, he is comfortable with it and is uncomfortable with everything else.
Loving support, loyalty, a functional family, all of it is upsetting to him.
He creates chaos.
I think a lot of us will have nodded at that observation.
Ironically, I think most LBS reach a point where we crave peace and calm above anything else bc chaos makes us feel exhausted and deeply unsafe.
I don’t know what, if anything, you intend to do differently as a result of your observation but I would just encourage you to do what is best for you and your kids bc you can’t fix him or tidy up his chaos. There’s not a big enough mop in the world lol. What I hope you can see increasingly clearly is that his lean to chaos has absolutely nothing to do with any of the BS ‘reasons’ he has blamed on you though - this just isn’t about you.
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MLC has been amping up behaviors that create chaos in our home. I have been calm and metered in my responses. He has responded with additional chaotic behavior comparable to a toddler tantrum.
Our children have remained calm and followed my lead.
We started this journey in earnest in 2016 and have experienced shattering BDs in September 22 and June 24. I have considered all of the options and when MLC seems to have a partial awakening I adjust. This is a long time and his behaviors are super unexpected and atypical.
I have no barometer to determine if this is even an ok path to be on. I know I have made many mistakes and I continue a healing journey separate from his chaos and pain.
Our kids. How will our kids fair through all of this? They seem to be mostly ok but I worry.
Any experiences to share with how children have faired through the mlc journey into their own adulthood and relationships?
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I cant really answer your question just wanted to say how sorry I am! I’m 46 and my spouse is 44! We have also been married 19 years. Mine left this June and filed for D 8/10! He has no communication with me. I know the wifeexpert has several videos on kids and mlc. Not sure if she has those on youtube or just on her website!
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He just keeps leaving and coming home and leaving and coming home. Our kids hate him.
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Hi
Upsetting isn't it? Sorry this is like this for you and the kids. You deserve peace and so do the kids. And with him doing this it's hard to have any.
What you allow continues. If there's no real honest communication from him maybe express to him you aren't happy with him doing this.
How long does he leave for?
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Are you just needing to vent your feelings - which is ok, we get it - or are you looking for guidance - which is ok too?
Reading back, it sounds as if he announced in June that he wants to divorce? Has he filed yet? He is living elsewhere? Do you know where and with whom? And have you taken legal advice including what you can legally do about him coming and going in your home?
And do you know what YOU want to do next?
I ask these questions bc I want to know how YOU see the current reality of where you are and what you feel ready - or not - to do differently now about it. And if you are ready to face some of those fears you talked about in July. Bc changing a current situation, or feeling stuck in one, is usually about our fears, isn’t it?
There are no ‘right’ answers to these questions, only ones that are ‘right for you’ right now. Understanding where you are right now will help us support you better though.
What I will say is that there are Feelings and Doings, and these two things are not the same. Which does mean we can change what we Do regardless of how we Feel if we think it makes sense that we should……but we have to make that choice for ourselves. Like that old joke about how many people it takes to change a lightbulb….one, but only if the lightbulb wants to change 😜
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Hi Mama4,
You had 3 threads running concurrently so the replies were being divided between them. Please stay with a single thread until you get to 150 posts. It makes it easier to moderate the board that way and you'll get more exposure because your thread (and your back story) will be more readily available before people answer you.
Regarding his coming and going, what init said is correct.... What you allow to continue will continue...
(https://i.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExNW45djJycHQwamVpbXl3NXp4d2lyZGtsd29qcm00aGk1aDBycWZvZyZlcD12MV9pbnRlcm5hbF9naWZfYnlfaWQmY3Q9Zw/i5122m6rzSAwg/giphy.gif)
Regards,
UM
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MAMA4,
I feel your pain. I agree that it is a pain that many others, outside those of us who understand MLC, understand. My wife has totally stopped speaking to me almost a year ago and truly hates me. She filed for divorce this past July. I had a hard time accepting that almost 18 years of marriage is coming to an end. We had a great marriage until MLC struck. The folks here and the knowledge here has helped immensely. The knowledge learned here and the Hearts Blessings site combined with a deeper faith in God's plan is what sustains me through this season. It's not fair to you and your children. You are not alone in those feelings. I try not let my anger and hate fester. I have to trust in the Lord that there is a bigger plan. That is hard because it means surrendering to something you can't see. I still pray for my wife even with her affair and extreme anger. Deep down these people are so troubled and broken. It's not your fault. We didn't break them, and we can't fix them. It is their own journey.
Let me leave you with this which has helped me
By God’s grace, persevere in the trial: “Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters, whenever you face trials of many kinds, because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything” (James 1:2–4).
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MLC has been amping up behaviors that create chaos in our home. I have been calm and metered in my responses. He has responded with additional chaotic behavior comparable to a toddler tantrum.
Our children have remained calm and followed my lead.
We started this journey in earnest in 2016 and have experienced shattering BDs in September 22 and June 24. I have considered all of the options and when MLC seems to have a partial awakening I adjust. This is a long time and his behaviors are super unexpected and atypical.
I have no barometer to determine if this is even an ok path to be on. I know I have made many mistakes and I continue a healing journey separate from his chaos and pain.
Our kids. How will our kids fair through all of this? They seem to be mostly ok but I worry.
Any experiences to share with how children have faired through the mlc journey into their own adulthood and relationships?
This depends on the kids, depends on their ages, depends on the outcome. An MLCer who stays in contact with their kids, even if abandoning their spouse, will be different than one that abandons the kids.
If your H just moves in and out at his whim, and has no contact with the kids while he is gone, that is rough on the kids. And each will react in their own way.
If he stays in touch while out, each will still react their own way. I will say my experience was that if you command respect and do not allow yourself to be walked on, the kids do better. This does not mean you can't allow move in or out at his whims, just that you have your own terms for it that don't make you crazy and stick to them.
While I was standing, it turned out my 18 year old D was worried that I wasn't seeing things clearly. (I had an 18 month live in mlcer).When I finally kicked him to the curb, she was relieved. And she still has a relationship with him, yet knows she cannot trust him. For a long time she believed all men would eventually leave. I had to keep telling her that all men aren't that way. She is 27 now and in a great relationship.
Be the stable one, have respect for yourself and don't allow disrespect from others. Be a parent and they should come out OK. If needed, remind them that it's their fathers issue, not theirs. They didn't break him, they can't fix him.
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I also agree with depends on the situation , ages, etc etc etc. I had an at home MLCer from 2010-2018. My kids were completely unaware. I am proud of that. 2018 BD1 came after I moved him out. He moved back 10 mths later and when he left 2 years later I filed for a quick divorce myself yo protect myself. He is now basically a crazed vanisher and married.
My kids have been abandoned as is my GS10. My kids are now in their 30’s. I was married 30 years. My D33 is struggling with it all. I dont think you have alot of control on what their MLC parent causes them on pain, because your not inflicting it. You can however limit what they are exposed to and show them what not to tolerate. Someone in crisis or depressed is not a free pass to hurt others. Disrespect others. Your home also is not a hotel for comings and goings for a stay or for your hearts. If it feels wrong for you, then it’s wrong for them.
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Even though our daughter was an adult, the destruction of our marriage and the disappearance of the man she knew as her dad affected her deeply.
In discussion with what she wants, we include him in family events, Christmas, beach vacations in the winter, he stays at my home when they visit in the summer.
We have managed to remain a "family" in spite of his crisis. It is the best thing for our family.
My daughter and I are open about who is is, the changes in him and she is very aware of his "weirdness".
I attended a state CASA conference yesterday and was reminded again of how important it is to maintain some kind of contact with birth parents.
I also attended a really good session of addiction and the difference in brain chemistry, specifically with regard to the levels of dopamine in people who are addicted, depressed and even those who have ADHD. Due to low levels of dopamine, people afflicted will search for anything that gives them the feeling that high levels of dopamine gives....in many cases, the MLCer engages in an affair, spends money lavishly, gambles, uses drugs and alcohol, does all kinds of things they would not have done prior to their crisis to attain that "high".
This is a biological fact for people with low levels of dopamine which happens...also with a genetic component that passes along these genes.
If you are ok with his coming and going then you might be able to facilitate a place where healing can occur and your kids can benefit from having some association with their father, especially if they understand the pathology that is going on.
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Thank you all for your thoughtful input and understanding.
Our family is moving along. MLC continues to come and go to his friend’s house without warning. He is more irritable than usual lately. He is also attempting to engage with each of our kids in different ways and with me.
He stared at me for several minutes the other night and then said, “in a few days we will be married for 20 years, where did my life go?”
Tomorrow is the day. I made him a card but haven’t decided if I will give it to him.
Ironically, I am more ready to divorce than ever before. I accept the state of our reality and this took a long time for me.
He is angry and irritable or sleeping when he is home.
When he is gone, even the dog is calmer. Our children gravitate to me and we are joyful.
I am doing well for the most part, adjusting to our oldest moving out for college next month and his sister starting senior year of high school. They all grow up so fast! This next school year we will have one child in college, one in high school, one in middle school and one in elementary school.
They are all out of the house a lot this summer—-the older two in Europe for several weeks and the younger two at different camps.
I am cleaning and donating and really preparing for separating the household if necessary. I plan to mention moving forward with a divorce when we are alone at home.
As far as divorces go, it will be simple. We don’t own anything together and I am very willing to pay alimony if it comes to that. It’s excruciating to live with someone so unhappy, even only part time, who is also so unwilling to do anything about it. He continues to gain large amounts of weight and blames me even with healthy from scratch meals prepared daily in our home. Our children and I are all physically fit and many of us underweight.
The longer I allow him to shift blame to me, the more toxic our home becomes. I do want our kids to love and respect him. I don’t undermine their relationship.
My first goal for my planned time off this week is to purchase a bed for myself. He kicked me out of our bed I think 5 years ago but really have lost track. I sleep on a futon mattress on the floor of our younger boys’ room.
We have an extra bedroom that I have been working to clear out. This will be really good. Then I will move onto a frank conversation with him about our next steps. I really believe he will be relieved. It must be hard to juggle his family and his side piece.
Thank you again for helping me to get here. I thought I could fix something I couldn’t fix. Now I just don’t want the broken thing or any other for that matter. I’m super badass on my own and very happy with this decision.
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Thank you all for your thoughtful input and understanding.
Our family is moving along. MLC continues to come and go to his friend’s house without warning. He is more irritable than usual lately. He is also attempting to engage with each of our kids in different ways and with me.
He stared at me for several minutes the other night and then said, “in a few days we will be married for 20 years, where did my life go?”
Tomorrow is the day. I made him a card but haven’t decided if I will give it to him.
Ironically, I am more ready to divorce than ever before. I accept the state of our reality and this took a long time for me.
He is angry and irritable or sleeping when he is home.
When he is gone, even the dog is calmer. Our children gravitate to me and we are joyful.
I am doing well for the most part, adjusting to our oldest moving out for college next month and his sister starting senior year of high school. They all grow up so fast! This next school year we will have one child in college, one in high school, one in middle school and one in elementary school.
They are all out of the house a lot this summer—-the older two in Europe for several weeks and the younger two at different camps.
I am cleaning and donating and really preparing for separating the household if necessary. I plan to mention moving forward with a divorce when we are alone at home.
As far as divorces go, it will be simple. We don’t own anything together and I am very willing to pay alimony if it comes to that. It’s excruciating to live with someone so unhappy, even only part time, who is also so unwilling to do anything about it. He continues to gain large amounts of weight and blames me even with healthy from scratch meals prepared daily in our home. Our children and I are all physically fit and many of us underweight.
The longer I allow him to shift blame to me, the more toxic our home becomes. I do want our kids to love and respect him. I don’t undermine their relationship.
My first goal for my planned time off this week is to purchase a bed for myself. He kicked me out of our bed I think 5 years ago but really have lost track. I sleep on a futon mattress on the floor of our younger boys’ room.
We have an extra bedroom that I have been working to clear out. This will be really good. Then I will move onto a frank conversation with him about our next steps. I really believe he will be relieved. It must be hard to juggle his family and his side piece.
Thank you again for helping me to get here. I thought I could fix something I couldn’t fix. Now I just don’t want the broken thing or any other for that matter. I’m super badass on my own and very happy with this decision.
Wow, I need to go back and read your entire story, but 5 years without a bed is rough! I’ve been on the basement sectional pushed together for ~7 months and I’m definitely missing a bed! Maybe I need to do something down here… I feel your pain and sacrifice.
I’m not sure if I’m experienced enough to give advice, but the only thing I can say is that if you are still questioning whether or not to keep trying, then the direction is clear (don’t give up).
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I read your post as being rather closer to the Acceptance stage, when a bit of space and time allows you to see how things are as opposed to endlessly wondering why they are that way or what you can do to fix them. You can see, for instance, that your h brings a certain ‘vibe’ with him regardless of what you do or don’t do, the chaos you describe or a level of underpinning anger or self-pity even. It genuinely does take most of us quite a while to see this - perhaps bc it isn’t very normal, perhaps bc the chaos acts as a distraction for a while - but once you see it, you can’t unsee it, can you?
I don’t know what path you will choose from here but you do sound as if you are ready to choose one that feels better for you than you have been on so far. I hope that you can also accept that you did your best based on what you knew at the time, and that is some comfort to you. And a better path definitely starts with your own comfy bed 😜
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Thank you
I am approaching acceptance and it has been hard earned. I will continue to work.
Today is our 20th wedding anniversary.
He texted me Happy Anniversary. From work this morning.
I texted back the same.
I left him the card I made him on the desk in his bedroom.
It showed a picture of us on our wedding day which was captioned “I loved you then”, a picture from our trip to New York a few months ago, captioned, “I love you still”
And the words
And I always will
He brought me a dozen red roses after work and gave me a kiss.
I’d filed for divorce in the next 30 seconds and still stand by my words in that card.
The fact that I love him doesn’t really mean much at this point, but it’s still ok to share it….
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Yes, you can still love him.
But you don’t have to share your life with him, or be married to what he has become, that’s true too.
It’s ok to love someone from much further back from their emotional rollercoaster.
It was brave of you but you’ve had such a hard last few years, my friend, and you deserve to live with some peace and grace.
Hugs from here.
A PS….do you need or have a safety plan of some sort? Bc it seems evident to me that, at best, your h has been emotionally abusive for a long time, likes control and that - despite his words - he has been content to come and go as he pleases for a long time too. And as far as I understand it, HE didn’t file, you did. That may make him rather angry. Please keep yourself safe.
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Spot on as always, thank you.
His behavior has been incredibly difficult for many years.
Of our 26 years together, 20 married, we have fallen into a terrible cycle twice now.
The first trigger seemed to be the birth of our first child and the second trigger was this same child growing up and moving on.
Our oldest is living his father’s dream, playing baseball in college.
I don’t really care about the genesis of his crazy anymore. I just need to move on too.
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I returned home yesterday after 9 hours of baseball games/driving in different cities for my 13 year old.
MLC was on the couch and asked me to sit with him and scratch his back. I did.
And he began to talk.
He never talks.
3.5 hours later, I had missed a fundraiser for our daughter’s drill team and failed to do a list of other tasks, but he was talking!
He was talking about work. Good and bad. The individuals and centered at all of this—a man in his office who is married to a man but does not identify as gay. He informed MLC he is Bi and that men are better marriage material because his husband is willing to share. He sleeps with any woman he wants to.
MLC noted that it would also be easier to be married to a man because then you are just hanging out with your buddy all of the time.
Then he attempted to have sex with me.
Then we went to bed.
But I couldn’t sleep.
Instead I read everything I could for hours about anger and toxic behavior and middle age understanding of sexuality and all of the possibilities and firmly concluded he must be trying to tell me something.
I also work with several members of the LGBTQIA+ community but never mention that in conversation about work. I accept their relationships and they accept mine and it isn’t a big topic at my work or in my thinking or focus.
He has been going to see his male friend for years now. Perhaps he isn’t lying.
I tried to speak with him this morning and he only yelled at me, you think I’m Gay? And started laughing.
I said no, I didn’t even think that but I think that is what you were telling me last night.
He walked away and hasn’t said anything.
I’m at baseball again with our younger two children.
All day.
I’m crying and walking during warm ups.
I guess I am relieved?
I had long thought I was the problem BUT
maybe we just aren’t able to have a romantic relationship.
What was I doing for the last 26 years?