Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: StandandDeliver on November 30, 2011, 12:12:00 PM
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I know that the aim here is to avoid D. But for some it is inevitable. Are there people on the forum for whom D has actually made life dealing with the MLC easier? Did you feel more free? Did your MLCer change his behaviour towards you. Have you been able to detach more? I am looking to hear about ANY benefits no matter how small, I am not fussy!!
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It has helped me immensely, but I was never a stander. I am not sure what I would feel if I was... I would never be able to detach if I were still married. And the funny thing is--dating was important to me a year ago, but since the divorce is final, I have my name back, and I can do whatever I want, it feels less so, for some reason. It could also be that I got the "NEED" out of my sytem. I proved to myself that there is nothing wrong with me sexually, that some decent men find me attractive and actually seem to enjoy me. And that's enough for now, I guess.
Plus, he doesn't have me over a barrel, we have a settlement, and a custody agreement, so I can do and say whatever I want to him and he can't retaliate without spending a lot of money. And again, I think having "permission" or freedom to do that makes it feel so much less important. I feel at peace with my sitch now in a way that I really could not have without being divorced. There is something to be said for everything being done and over.
I will never say I feel GOOD about it all, but there will come a day when I WILL say that my divorce was the best thing that ever happened to me. I believe that for anyone that ends up where I am! Love and light, Lisa
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S&D, Divorce has not made my life easier because it has not happened yet, but when it will my life will be much easier. Like Lisa said, there be no more having me over a barrel and there will be a settlement. No more me needing to worry about the next court case. Also, I agree with Lisa, there is something to be said about everything being done and over.
The first part of Lisa post, about dating, I've already been through. I'm not divorced but I'm only a wife in paper. Husband is a vanisher, I live with my family back at our home town, had not seen him in over 3.5 years. Dating was quite important to me after BD and being on my own. Now it is important but it most be more oriented towards a serious, lasting relashionship.
I'm more looking forward to divorce and being done and over than to having husband back. Even if I miss him, I need closure. Need to end this.
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I haven't found a benefit. I've lived with him for 5 months now; the divorce has been final for 15 months. I can't even bear to say we are divorced. He still calls me his wife. Divorce didn't solve anything for us; it only made things more complicated. This is very painful and would have been whether we tried to reconcile or just went on with our lives without each other.
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My wife is living with another man in another country. She wanted a divorce and pressed hard for me to divorce her. We are now divorced. I don't know if there are any benefits. Perhaps there are, perhaps the finality of it enables me to draw a line under one chapter of my life (albeit a long chapter) and get on with the next.
But frankly in my situation the divorce was simply the courts rubber stamping what is reality. If your H/W is living with another person your marriage as you knew it is over. Live your life like they are not coming back. That doesn't necessarily mean having other relationships. It can mean finding your own identity and independence. We don't need to define our self-worth by being accepted and approved of by others. It was wonderful loving my W and being loved by my W, and I thought my life would end without her love, but to my surprise my life hasn't ended.
May be we need to cut the cord to be able to grow.
honour
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But frankly in my situation the divorce was simply the courts rubber stamping what is reality.
Exactly what it will be in mine.
If your H/W is living with another person your marriage as you knew it is over. Live your life like they are not coming back.
If we are to live our live like they are never coming back divorce is not a problem. They are not coming back, we do not stay married to someone that is not coming back. So, there is a contradiction between live your live like they are never coming back and don't divorce. At least, to me, there is...
May be we need to cut the cord to be able to grow.
I think in somes cases we do. I, at least, think I need to cut that last cord.
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But frankly in my situation the divorce was simply the courts rubber stamping what is reality. If your H/W is living with another person your marriage as you knew it is over. Live your life like they are not coming back. That doesn't necessarily mean having other relationships. It can mean finding your own identity and independence. We don't need to define our self-worth by being accepted and approved of by others. It was wonderful loving my W and being loved by my W, and I thought my life would end without her love, but to my surprise my life hasn't ended.
May be we need to cut the cord to be able to grow.
honour
Nice wording & so very true! :D
Hi Annej.:)
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Hi Star :)
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So, there is a contradiction between live your live like they are never coming back and don't divorce.
Where did I say don't divorce?
honour
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You did not, honour. I was refering to the fact that we are often told to live our lives like they are never coming back but also to do not divorce or do not make it easy for the mcler to divorce us.
And that, for me, is a contradiction. Either we life our lives like they are never coming back, and, in that case, we can (must? should?...) divorce or we hold on to the marriage and, in that case, live with the hope they come back. I don't know if I'm explaining myself right...
What I've always thought was that, divorced, you can remarry the same person, marry someone else, or stay on your own. Married it will be complicated in case one wants to remarry or have a serious relashionship with someone else. It is even dificult, not to say absurd, to be married on paper to a 3.5 years plus vanisher like I am... ::) ::)
Why am I not divorced?...Well, at first, right after BD, I thought it was crazy to run into such thing with so many emotions running loose. Nothing good could come of it. Then I wanted a clean, simple, amicable divorce. My husband had another idea and went to court. Twice. His first process was closed (he has no grounds for divorce), his second is, well, still. It does not move.
I have a temporary alimony process and, when his second process is done, if closed like first, and we remain married, I will follow my temporary alimony with divorce request.
Would say my very vanishing husband does not want a divorce. He just wants to be living the high life with OW2 and try to get some more drama. And, of course, when he is done, be back like nothing had happened. ::) ::) ::)
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Because you can live your life as IF they are never coming back and have hope that they will. Totally different things.
I lived for months as IF D6 was going to Be severely disabled being told she,being told she wasn't viable for life and every week being told something else
Was wrong.
We prepared the family that it could be hard and that the baby maybe sick. But I NEVER gave up hope that she would be ok. Despite being faced with some new bad news every week.
Guess what I have a healthy D6.
So why should unroll over and not have hope? Why should I do the work for something I don't want? I can live as if he isn't coming home working on my dreams and hopes and my girls. I have hope he will wake up one day. That doesn't mean I am hanging on or in denial I have hope.
If we go our separate ways so be it. But I can hope we don't and I won't aide in that destruction.
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Shant,
I find it very different to have hope for a child that is severely disabled or for a very ill spouse than for an MLCer to be back and we living our life like if they are never coming back. Maybe without a vanisher that may be easy to do, but with one, gone for years, well...lets say that, in the very least, it is very hard. Waiting and hoping for a ghost to be back?... ??? ??? ???
If I'm going to life my life like he is never going to be back the hope is useless. Hope means you will leave the door open. If the door is open, you are not IMO, living like they are not coming back. At least, I'm not.
Also think it is different to have hope for them to "wake up"/ be alright and us to stay married to them (or take them back).
I've hoped for my husband to be back for a long time. He has not. Given that I not able to do both things, live like he is never coming back and hoping that he will be back, well, I'm going to have to choose. But that is me.
What works for me may/does not work for others. No divorce has only made be in limbo. I need an end to this situation. The sooner, the better. Sorry if this goes against the norm of the forum. We're not all alike, our MCLers are not all alike, the situations created by the MLC are not all alike.
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Nope not for me Hope is hope and if I leave the back door open doesn't mean good things can't come In The front door.
But I am different. I see the world differently to many. Maybe I remember what it was like for me.
I don't k ow. I just know that hope doesn't mean hanging on. But that is what makes us each individual and special.
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Hrrrmmm I have to say both arguments sound equally viable to me... that said... I almost get the feeling that until I completely give up and let go... and let the marriage die an absolute death... I have no hope... until I can 100% let go.. I am doomed to the limbo that is the life I have now. it seems a big gamble to me... but really... Like from the ashes the fiery phoenix... and then... it might turn out the fiery phoenix was just a myth. But really? What else do I have?
Z.
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Since I am divorced, I will answer....my answers are based on my situation, experience, and belief system.
"Are there people on the forum for whom D has actually made life dealing with the MLC easier?"
The divorce did not make dealing with the MLC easier. I would say physical separation and detachment are probably what helped me.
"Did you feel more free?"
Not sure how to answer....I place a very high value on commitment. My MLCer wanted her freedom, whatever that means in MLC land.
"Did your MLCer change his behaviour towards you."
My MLCer has been a Boomerang post divorce. I have not seen any Monster post divorce.
"Have you been able to detach more?"
I'm not sure my ability to detach is because of the divorce. It may have more to do with physical separation and understanding MLC.
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You did not, honour. I was refering to the fact that we are often told to live our lives like they are never coming back but also to do not divorce or do not make it easy for the mcler to divorce us.
Because this forum is for STANDERS, regardless of what you may believe.... it was started as a place for STANDERS..... and that DOES mean don't make it easy for the MLCer to divorce you.
If I may ask..... for those of you that just KNOW divorce is the choice for you... and it IS your choice, because it is YOUR life, absolutely.... well.... may I ask why you are spending your time on a forum intended for people who choose to stand for their marriages, instead of of focusing on outside activities to move you towards a new healthy relationship? If you're not standing, then why aren't you dating? I know you've said you already did it.... but why not now? If the marriage is over, you have a vanisher you haven't seen in 3.5 years or so.... and he OBVIOUSLY doesn't need a divorce to have a relationship with someone new.... then why aren't you seriously pursuing a NEW life with love?
I'm really not trying to pick on you, AnneJ..... you aren't the only one with this conundrum.... but I'm trying to figure out what it is that you are getting from this forum for standers? If divorce is the answer for you, then why not seek a divorce recovery group.... or a singles group... MOST separated people date!! In fact, MANY people stay married FOR CONVENIENCE sake for YEARS.... they don't need a divorce in order to move on in their lives.... it's an arrangement they have... Now, I do realize that your husband "has you over a barrel" financially.... I get that..... but that is a DIFFERENT scenario..... wanting a divorce to protect yourself financially, but still hoping for reconciliation eventually.
Again.... I'm just so curious as to the point of this thread on a STANDER'S FORUM??
Flame away...
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I understand you Shant. But, picture this. I (or any other LBS), after a significant amount of years, gets divorced. A few years later meets someone. They marry. LBS still hopes former spouse "wakes up" and comes back. Former spouse wakes up, wants back, comes after LBS.
Now what, LBS was always hopeful and here it is, the former spouse. You go and leave your current spouse?... Hope only aplies if you want to reconcile. If you want to remarry you cannot have hope for your MCLer to return. For then to be well that is different. I think we should still have hope for our MCLer to be well.
I know what I'm talking about regarding that thing that, if you still hope your MCLer is going to return you cannot remarry (or if you do it will be very hard on your new spouse) nor have a serious relashionship with someone else. There was someone I really liked, and really liked me. Husband had left for years, had been a vanisher for a while. Guess what? I was still hoping for husband to be back, so, of course, it did not worked out.
And I'm very sorry it did not worked out. But I realised that, for another relashionship to work out, hope for husband to return has to be gone. And I have to be divorced.
Yes, yes, I know, lots of people do not mind living with people that are married, like our MCLers other persons. ::) ::) ::) ::)
LG, because, when we came here, we were standing. At least, I was. But things change. We change.
Read above, LG, and you will know why I'm not, currently, persuing a new life with love. Of course he is with someone. Someone that does not mind he is married and has stayed married for all the 3 + years he is with her. Thing is, some people do mind that the people they date still is married.
And I'm married because my husband does not really divorce. He start process that we knows will not grant him the divorce, drags and drags and also drags when I star one. So, again, he does not want to divorce. He want to have me here waiting for him.
If I remember, it was already said that it makes sense a LBS, even if at a certain point comes to divoce, may stay in the forum. There are several divorced people here and some are not wainting for their spouses to be back.
PS: Yes, LG, he has me over a barrel financiall. No, no more hoping for eventual reconciliation. Everything has and end. Fair enough, we do not know the future and, in a few years, my mind may change. But for now, it is over. Door closed. Sorry, no more.
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There are no benefits to being legally separated from my husband. As each asset is changed from being jointly owned to being in my name only, I fear that it will be harder for him to feel the need to come back to our marriage.
I live alone and I believe in the covenant of marriage so I shall continue to live alone..that is not what I wanted, ever.
Even though I know this is not about me, I feel like people judge me..I must have done something wrong for such a good guy to have left me. I feel ashamed in some demented way.
I hate being legally separated..hate it with all my inner being. The financial cost of this has been ridiculous and the emotional cost enormous. The damage to my daughter and even other extended family members is very great.
He has what he wants..but this is 100% his separation, not mine.
It may protect some of us financially and set clear boundaries regarding child custody but it is wrong, wrong, wrong.....society accepts this as the norm..it is inevitable....
What's different in a MLC divorce? He was done with me without ever giving us a chance to make changes that might have meet his needs, he never expressed dissatisfaction until he made the decision to leave.
I am living my life as though he is not coming back and it is good and will get better..but I shall always have hope that the man I knew is inside somewhere.....I shall live but I shall always keep the door open to him.
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My divorce was final 2 months ago - a divorce that was 100% my H's. I was able to delay it for two years here in Illinois since H had no grounds.
And, I will say unequivocally that there are NO benefits to this. I, like xyzcf, believe in the covenant of marriage and will remain single until my H wakes up and realizes what he has done. Except for the obvious legal papers, not much has changed in my relationship with my H. We still do things together as a family. H spent Thanksgiving here at our home and we went and picked out a Christmas tree a few days later. He will also spend Christmas here.
Is standing easy? All of you know it is not and I have been at it longer than most - will be 4 years in March. But, whether my H is in MLC or not - and I believe he is - divorce is something that God hates and I am standing with God to resurrect the covenant that GOD witnessed and blessed. I will get on my soapbox now and am well aware that many 2 by 4's are on the way for what I am about to say. So be it.
It makes me sick to my stomach what society and MOST CHURCHES now accept which is in direct violation of God's word and will for marriage. I realize that my beliefs are not the beliefs of everyone on this forum and that most who call themselves Christians do not take God's word as seriously as I do. But, he has said that he hates divorce and that we are bound to our spouses as long as we are alive. A civil divorce is not valid in God's eyes when a covenant marriage is involved. And as HB has so eloquently stated in many of her posts, I believe that if we are doing what God has asked of us on this journey, he will deal with our spouses. He will allow them to wallow in their sinful state for a season, but eventually he will put up with their disobedience no more. God has limits. God made the universe and the laws that govern it including one that states one will reap what he has sown. Do we honestly think that God will allow someone to abandon his wife and his children, to violate a covenant of 23 years, to be in a state of rebellion and disobedience to God - with no consequences for this sinful behavior?
God just does not operate that way. He offers forgiveness once one repents, but consequences remain.
God will vindicate the LBSer. He has promised good things to those who obey him and are faithful to carry out his will in their lives. God does not need my H's permission to bring him to his knees. Either you believe that God is in control or you believe that our mixed up MLCers are telling God what to do. God will act in his timing and God will deliver his brand of justice. Following the way of the Lord is not easy. It is a narrow path though many believe it to be wide. We will have trials and tribulation in this life if we take up our cross and follow Him. The marriage covenant is a big, big deal to God and God knows that I am staying true to it. Belief in his promises is the key to seeing them manifest in our lives.
So, no, nothing good has or will come of this divorce except for the honor and glory that will be the Lord's when he resurrects it from the ashes and replaces it with the beauty of a new restored marriage and of a family made whole once again.
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Convenant.... I don't necessarily subscribe to your particular beliefs EXACTLY.... but I respect your conviction for yourself, and for WHY you are standing.... I also know you love your husband and are handing him up to God to handle. God does restore people to sanity.... God does restore marriages.
I have been divorced before... amicable.. no children. It was still devastating... especially to my former husband who I left suddenly... but he did not "stand" for me... or fight for me and our marriage in any way..... he agreed to the divorce VERY EASILY..... he was not a man who handled INCONVENIENCE very well..... he only liked our marriage as long as everything was perfect.... our divorce devastated his parents..... mine were disappointed.... divorce hurts A LOT of people....
Sometimes, a divorce is in order because we are married to an abuser... but even under those circumstance, we should look to OURSELVES..... to find out WHY we were attracted to such a person.... instead, we have been SOLD A BILL OF GOODS that divorce is a SOLUTION... to ending pain, boredom, incompatibility, general unhappiness.... divorce solves NONE of these things. Besides the covenant, it is a CONTRACT joining together two lives... and after many years and children, it's a complicated contract.... not easy to get out of.... and NO ONE WINS or feels they got a fair shake...NO ONE!!
Not everyone should stay married.... I don't wish I was still married to my first husband.... but the divorce did NOT change my life for better..... it did teach me some lessons... but not for a long while.
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I think divorce is coming for me too :(
I trust that it is all in God's hands and as Covenant for Life says
So, no, nothing good has or will come of this divorce except for the honor and glory that will be the Lord's when he resurrects it from the ashes and replaces it with the beauty of a new restored marriage and of a family made whole once again.
The results for the 2010 census here in Brazil are being publicized in the newspapers and news programs currently and they have detected a considerable rise in divorces :( I do not like being part of this kind of statistic...
We have divorce in my family and I cannot see any benefits at all, quite the contrary.
I understand the need to sort finances, however, rarely is it beneficial.
I am facing an impoverished future, maybe due to the fact that I didn't pursue a career (I wanted to be at home and take care of the kids, deliberately imploding all my chances by working flexible hours) when I was young enough. Also due to bad decisions about housing so now we don't have a saleable house. So, it seems, I got the short end of the stick.
I can only depend on God and if He allows me to go through the divorce, so be it.
I stand till death.
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What's different in a MLC divorce? He was done with me without ever giving us a chance to make changes that might have meet his needs"
This is what royally pi$$ed me off and that is why I would NOT accept the circumstances I found myself in.If this thing is (or was) SUPPOSED to end it needed to end WITHOUT either one of us having someone on the side.
I gave him the divorce; but he found out that didn't end the relationship.
Now I feel at least that this is fair. If we both give this our best shot then I know I can walk away and be at peace ( whether he ends it or I end it) with it without feeling like he replaced me. Or at least tried to.
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Right after BD and my H moved out, when I was getting "condolence" calls from family and friends, several people said to me, "I know you don't feel this way now, but one day you'll look back and realize this experience (they were assuming H & I would be getting a divorce) is going to make you a better person. You're going to learn things about yourself you never knew and you're going to become stronger."
It was people who had experienced a divorce (or two!) who told me this, of course. (Interestingly, almost all of my family and friends who've divorced have been the initiators, not the ones left.) I'm sure everybody here has heard similar things.
I didn't appreciate hearing that, not when I was so devastated, but, as we all know, this experience (being on your own, GALing, learning new skills and coping strategies for being solely responsible for yourself and maybe children, having the time to reassess your behavior within your marriage, having the time to develop your own interests, etc.) does make you stronger and you do learn things about yourself you didn't know. Experience is a quick and highly effective, albeit painful, teacher.
And I accept that, even divorce, unwanted as it is by me, will have benefits, too. Every adversity in life gives us something: greater compassion, more patience, greater gratitude for the blessings we do have, reassessment of what we're doing with our lives, how we're spending our times, etc.
I truly believe every cloud has a silver lining. And although I don't want a divorce and hope it doesn't happen, I try to remember there will be benefits, just as there have been positive "gifts" from being left by my H. The key is how we respond to what happens to us, as we all know.
I don't want to sound too Pollyanna-ish. I HATE what's happened to my marriage, but I also have to admit I'm stronger, more self-aware, more honest with myself, more compassionate to others pain, and more self-reliant than I was a year ago. And I believe that, if the unwanted divorce happens to me, it will have "gifts," too.
If you haven't read sociologist Judith Wallerstein's book, The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce: A 25 Year Landmark Study, I recommend it. Although, be warned, it is depressing reading and may be too much for someone who's new to being a LBS.
Wallerstein was the first academic to do a study of how divorce affects every member of a family and it's an assessment of the effects done every 5 years on the same families post divorce. She concluded the effects of divorce are lifelong, traumatizing, and much more damaging to the person left, and to children, than people have previously realized.
She also concludes there's always a "winner" (usually the person who left) and a "loser" (usually the person who was left) in every divorce. Like I said, depressing reading, but she has serious scholarship and data to backup her conclusions. What's most chilling about her research is the deep and lifelong trauma suffered by children whose parents have divorced.
If it was possible to get an MLCer contemplating leaving his/her family to read just one book, this would be the one I'd chose. (Wishful thinking, I know!)
Interesting discussion!
TMHP
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She also concludes there's always a "winner" (usually the person who left) and a "loser" (usually the person who was left) in every divorce. Like I said, depressing reading, but she has serious scholarship and data to backup her conclusions. What's most chilling about her research is the deep and lifelong trauma suffered by children whose parents have divorced.
If it was possible to get an MLCer contemplating leaving his/her family to read just one book, this would be the one I'd chose. (Wishful thinking, I know!)
Would encouraging a MLCer to read a book that states the leaver is usually the winner really be a good idea?
honour
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It would be interesting to know how they define "leaver" though. For instance I know a lot of people where there was an affair and the betrayed person did the leaving. In fact, it was me who actually kicked my H out after BD - he would be more than happy to have people think that I left him to alleviate his guilt (she didnt want to stay married either type thing) except that I made it clear that he was leaving because he refused to work on the marriage - he was not offering to walk away at any point. So am I the leaver? Or does the fact that I did not want him to have an affair and would have worked to save the marriage if I had known how to make him the leaver (he emotionally left even before he physically left)?
In any case, I am determined to be the winner in all of this even if I end up and remain divorced. I don't know what criteria was used to determine what being a "winner" is. My H will probably always earn more money than me, but I have a job that I like, that is flexible and I have time with my children who he never sees. Who is the winner in the scenario? I too, can, and probably will go on to have other relationships, even if H never looks back. So I will have my children, my interesting job, a new lover and all my great friends. He might look like a "winner" if you only look at the financials, but I know emotionally that the winner will be me.
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It would be interesting to know how they define "leaver" though.
That is a good point S&D. I lept in there without thinking it all through.
honour
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Honour,
I can see how what I wrote sounds a bit strange!
By "winners" she wasn't saying that those who leave their marriage are happier in the short and long run. As I remember she was saying those who leave marriages do better financially than those left behind, have less difficulties in adjusting to changes brought about by their decision (often because they have another partner in the wings to help with the transition) and, because they made the decision to end the marriage, they have more of a feeling of "control" than those who've been left. It's been some time since I read the book so I may be fuzzy about the details.
The overall tone of her book is very sobering, I think particularly for anyone contemplating leaving their marriage. Because her conclusions are based on solid research they're hard to argue with. Her data shows that the overall effects of divorce are overwhelmingly negative, that children are deeply, permanently scarred by their parents divorce, and that most people who divorce, both the leavers and those left behind, suffer intense emotional, financial, and physical upheaval that takes many, many years to adjust to and, in all cases for children, never goes away.
I don't think anyone would conclude after having read the book, "Gee divorce sounds like it's going to be the answer to my problems. I need to do that."
TMHP
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Dear LG, please don’t take offense, but, if I read correctly, you left your first husband suddenly (you do not say if you were on MLC or if something else made you leave).
You also say not everyone should stay married and that you did not wish to still married to your first husband, so, why are you so upset that, after years on end of standing (and, like I said before, I was standing when I come here) I decide to divorce my husband?
It would not be incorrect to say I have a series of reasons, including the type that are accepted by court, to divorce my husband.
Of course divorce hurts a lot of people. But, in my case, husband’s (still ongoing) MLC hurt a lot of people. And caused financial devastation not only to myself but to my family. My divorce, if to come now, will not hurt anyone nearly has bad as my husband MLC. Actually, I doubt the divorce will hurt anyone. The damage is all already done.
No, no one wins in a divorce but, sometimes, and depending on circumstances, the divorce can brings us if not to a better life, to similar to the life we’ve had pre spouse MLC.
In my case, not being married anymore it will change my life for the better. No more constant absurd costy court cases, my money (that husband took) returned, no more been attached to someone who is absent. Remember I have a marriage only on paper. It is like being married to a ghost.
Why do you say your divorce from your first husband teach you some lessons but nor for a long while?
Covenant and Mitzpah, I respect your views of marriage as a covenant for life.
Mitzpah, your impoverish future is already my present. And it has been so since husband left. Only way of my future to be a little more bright on that department is to divorce. Actually, the reason why my husband keeps delaying the divorce is because he does not want to pay and give me what is financially mine.
Trusting, Several friends that divorce did not iniciate the divorce but some where the cause for the divorce (they stayed, one had a MLC), in my close family there was only one divorce and I think it was mutual agreement.
Maybe that sociologist Judith Wallerstein, should do a study on the effects done every 5 years to a LBS… I doubt it would be worst than the effects of the divorce itself…Anyway, I would say the effects of MLC are “lifelong, traumatizing, and much more damaging to the person left, and to children, than people have previously realized”.
Don’t think it is all rosy and nice after a MLC nor that it is better than a divorce.
No, I don’t think it would be a good idea to encourage a MCLer to read a book where it is said that there is always a “winner” " (usually the person who left) and a “loser” (usually the person who was left) in every divorce.
That would not only make the MCLer to feel even more happy by had left, after all they “won”, but would made a reconciliation quite unpleasant and hard. The “winning” MCLer back with the “looser” LBS.
I think it would be fare to say, that, really, my husband has been, so far, the “winner”. He left, got all our money, lives with someone, leads the high life, travels, spends and I’m left with crumbs. But, wait, I’m not divorced…still, the effects of my husband MLC have been lifelong devastating and traumatizing. A normal, amicable divorce would had been much less devastating and traumatizing than what I (and many other MCLer LBS) have been through.
So, perhaps, in some MLC cases a divorce is less of a trauma than standing…In my case it would had been. And, if rather than standing I had, right after husband left, seek a divorce (but I thought that was rushing in the wave of very heated emotions), the financial devastation had been much smaller. And the emotional and psychological as well.
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By "winners" she wasn't saying that those who leave their marriage are happier in the short and long run. As I remember she was saying those who leave marriages do better financially than those left behind, have less difficulties in adjusting to changes brought about by their decision (often because they have another partner in the wings to help with the transition) and, because they made the decision to end the marriage, they have more of a feeling of "control" than those who've been left. It's been some time since I read the book so I may be fuzzy about the details.
So, the "crime" pays off! Having a partner in the wing, and so on is, if we go for what she wrote, the better option, because it makes it better for you and you get more money. What a pity I did not thought about that... ::) ::) ::)
I think her research is saying, to someone who was left behind to stick to the marriage. After all she already said that the one who lefts has it better. She pretty much says, well, if you are going to be divorce, make sure you are the one who left.
SD, frankly, I don't really care much for what the one left thinks. My husband tried a kind of aproach after OW1 was no longer in the picture, wanted to date me, I said no. So, guess also makes like you, the one who said not. Also, I've recently wrote him a farewell letter. I just said it was over.
"Or does the fact that I did not want him to have an affair and would have worked to save the marriage if I had known how to make him the leaver (he emotionally left even before he physically left)?"
He, like mine, is the one "left". Not sure if, in the end, mine will be the financial "winner". But I'm the "winner" for sure.
No one "wins" in a divorce, so, a book that uses "winner" and "looser" when talking about divorce is not IMHO using a very good aproach.
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AnneJ,
I quite understand!Mitzpah, your impoverish future is already my present. And it has been so since husband left. Only way of my future to be a little more bright on that department is to divorce. Actually, the reason why my husband keeps delaying the divorce is because he does not want to pay and give me what is financially mine.
I said future but, in reality, it is my present, too!
I suspect that things will be slightly mitigated after a divorce, in financial terms. It will kind of establish what is my present.
Interesting what TMHP says about it does make you stronger and you do learn things about yourself you didn't know. Experience is a quick and highly effective, albeit painful, teacher.
And I accept that, even divorce, unwanted as it is by me, will have benefits, too. Every adversity in life gives us something: greater compassion, more patience, greater gratitude for the blessings we do have, reassessment of what we're doing with our lives, how we're spending our times, etc.
I agree that adversity will build character in us, however, divorce itself is not a blessing in disguise.
As a mother who had a child go through life threatening situations (at birth with a heart defect that had to be corrected surgically and later brain cancer), I know that there are valuable lessons to be learnt and they wouldn't have been learnt if my son hadn't faced these risks.
I hate childhood cancer and birth defects with all my being!
I value the lessons learnt and I know I am more compassionate and understanding of other people's pain. It doesn't mean that I consider what we went through a blessing. It was horrible and very painful.
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I agree that adversity will build character in us, however, divorce itself is not a blessing in disguise.
I have to agree with Mitzpah..maybe it's different for other people.
But when your sitting there in the lawyers office trying to help your soon to be ex think up grounds to divorce you on I guess that's a little too accomodating. But I told him he needed to file because I didn't want the divorce.
It was uncontested so we used the lawyer we always have for everything. I got a considerable amount of money and it helped some ..but now that's mostly gone.
A lot of things are gone and I greive everyday and hope someday to see or feel an end to it.
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AnneJ..... no one has to answer to me for their choices..... NO ONE... I'm just another person with a point of view.
If I may, I am PUZZLED by you... really! If I'm honest, it seems as if you are trying to convince yourself that divorce is going to free you, BUT, you are so caught up in the story of how awful your husband was to you....I mean, ALL of our stories are tragic and horrible in some way! We get it that your husband hasn't spoken to you in years.... I get it that you don't feel you are really married... I completely do! So my question to you is "What do you get from being on this forum?" I really am curious because it has puzzled me from the beginning.... I just mean, what is it that you GET from being here? I'm not saying you CAN'T be here at all.... I just wonder, because it feels to me like you are STUCK....
I really get the impression that you are STUCK in your resentment of what has happened to you, and I understand..... believe me!! But, it is YOU who suffers for being stuck... I feel there is more that you aren't revealing.... maybe you came from another board where you told your whole story and you got it all out, but I have a lot of questions such as WHY haven't you heard from your husband in all this time? Has he NEVER initiated contact except for the divorce proceedings? You MUST know that the divorce stuff is ALL OW'S doing, right?
I also understand that you wish to have children.... so like me and my first husband, we did NOT have the tie of children... believe me it is EASIER to leave a marriage when there aren't any...MLC did not trigger my first divorce, but I can look back now and see the things that did.... my responsibility. I had a string of long term relationships with "troubled" partners AS A DIRECT RESULT OF MY PARENT'S BEING DIVORCED.... that's right.... it was a DIRECT result of their divorce, that I found it impossible to have an INTIMATE and HEALTHY relationship with anyone. I have seen his syndrome OVER AND OVER with children of broken homes!! I work with young adults and not ONE of them has a happy story of their "Dad's girlfriend" or "Mom's new partner".... not ONE... they all harbor resentment even if they don't agree their parents were suited for one another... that's just the TRUTH about divorce and "blended" families.
Anyway, in my particular sitch... I married my first hubsand because he was "safe"... a nice, boring man. Actually, he had a lot of good and interesting qualities, but I didn't get that "high" from him that I did from dysfunctional relationships which is what children of divorce CRAVE. My uncle died suddenly at a family gathering, at the same time I was reintroduced to my lost love at the function, and the dynamic was one of TOTAL CRAZINESS in my head.....just like the infatuation the MLCer feels for OW! Although I suggested marriage counseling for me and my husband, he had NO idea what was going on.... we went to counseling.... I had one foot out the door, and the COUNSELOR'S SUGGESTED "Open marriage" for us!! :o :o :o :o :o based upon our complaints!! Yep!! What they DIDN'T have was ALL THE INFORMATION, cuz I sure wasn't giving it to them, and my husband didn't bother asking.... all he cared about was the lack of sex, for real.... so the opportunity for SOMEONE to possibly talk some sense into me was LOST by the professionals who might have wondered "what is REALLY going on here? This is so sudden, her discontent...." but I don't blame them.
So, I moved heaven and earth to get to my CURRENT husband... I really did, and no one tried to stop me. All I heard was "Oh, well... at least you don't have kids....." The divorce attorney was ADVERSARIAL, though my former husband and myself stated plainly that we cared for one another and wanted an amicable separation.....in fact he and I were friendly... doing things together... going out and such and NO ONE thought "wow, that's unusual...do they REALLY want a divorce? Is this the answer?" NO ONE... because in our society, we have been sold a bill of goods that says divorce will solve your problems and they will all go away. It's simply not true!!
Not everyone should be married... or at least for life. So, AnneJ...... if you got your divorce TOMORROW, would you suddenly be happy? I realize you would feel free in certain ways... but would it make you happy? Solve your problems? I feel you would STILL be angry over what has happened, and I just wonder after all this time if your husband really is GONE as far as you're concerned, will a divorce really be the only way you can move on?
I know this is uncomfortable..... I'm uncomfortable asking these questions of you because it's public and we aren't face to face and I know it can sound CHALLENGING in a negative way, and that's not really where I'm coming from... I really just am curious... sometimes what people tout is not what they are really feeling... just like me wanting to divorce my first husband..... there was MORE to the story, deep feelings of confusion for me, and no one bothered to look.... thankfully, I learned much from it, but the lessons I learned were SAD ones about myself.
There are NO winners in a divorce... no matter how many people you run across that claim "I finally got rid of that a**hole!" because at some point you loved one another, hopefully. Statistically it is TRUE that the MAN usually recovers financially from a divorce in about a year's time, whereas the WOMAN and children fall into poverty nearly immediately. Those are the facts for MOST PEOPLE. Statistically, children of divorce go on to have their own dysfunctions with relationships and divorce... in my case, I didn't marry for the first time until I was 30 (not so old...) because I was AFRAID OF DIVORCE!!! It's not just me!!
I'm sorry.. I cannot agree fundamentally with divorce... I can't. This doesn't mean I believe NO ONE should get one, either. You know, my husband has said to me "If I hadn't of had the affair, you wouldn't have changed in these positive ways..." and I looked him in the eye and said "maybe not... but PLEASE don't ask me to EVER say your affair was a good thing, because I just can't do that."
Yes, people learn valuable lessons in their lives, sometimes from a divorce... maybe you need this and it is part of your LIFE HISTORY that must be played out... I don't condemn you at all, especially under your circumstances.... but I STILL WONDER "what is it you are getting from being on a standing forum?" it feels like you are trying to CONVINCE yourself or gain PERMISSION to be divorced, when really... it's YOUR life!
I really hope I haven't come across in an offensive way... I have the best intentions to just explore our feelings here..... even at the expense of showing my own warts, LOL!!
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Interesting topic. that for sure.
For me, I have declared I wasn't a stander and held high hopes that the divorce would bring me peace. I surprising feel more peace now then before, was it because I declared I wasn't standing anymore. Probley it released me from the burden of standing. Although, my behavior then and now are the same.
I have long stated that hope is a killer, it is hard to have hope for the marriage and move on. It was a continues battle between my mind and my heart. It still goes on, I'm not released from it but I also know that the D will not end that struggle either, it has to come from with me, I have to make peace with it. We each will have to make peace with all the of this and it makes no difference how you find it, only that you do
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Mitzpah, For us, it is not the divorce that will (has) caused a financial shortage, it was the MLC in itself. In some cases divorce may level the financial situation.
Divorce itself is not a blessing in disguise. I would much prefer things had not come this far and it was possible to reconcile. Sadly, things went too far and the cost, at all levels, become too high.
Guess it is that thing of there are no guarantees if you stand. There are no guarantees both for the LBS and the MCLer. If the MCLer may never be back to the LBS, the LBS may not take the MCLer back, or may divorce the MCLer. Just like the MCLer may divorce the LBS.
Adversity will build character in us, teach us valuable lessons, leaves us with more compassion for other people pain (MCLer included) but what we go through, be it with a child with cancer or a spouse in MLC does not mitigate our pain or make it less horrible.
It may be a blessing, like divorce, in the sense that there is a growth within us that may not come another way. What I’m not sure is if we needed that pain and growth or if the growth could had not be achieved in another, less horrible way…
You’re wrong, LG, I’m not trying to convince myself. It is decided. I will divorce him. True, it took awhile until that decision was final. I’m not in MLC so, it was not that easy to put a final end to 20 years (plus the over five of the crisis).
I’m not caught up on how much he hurt me but the truth is he did. It is a fact. I have forgive him (I’ve said that before) and have a lot of compassion for him. And I do miss the man I married and meet when I was 18. But that man is no more. No idea if he ever be or not a better/different version of is pre-crisis self.
I may be wrong but the feeling I have is that, a LBS choosing, and choosing to stop standing and close the door makes some people here very uncomfortable. I understand that. And that it may seem strange that someone comes here as a stander and end up stopping being one.
But things and people do change. Nothing is ecstatic. Nor the LBS, nor the MLCer, nor the crisis in itself.
The forum has other non standers and several divorced people. And people that had been divorced before and people that started, even briefly, by being OM/OW before become the spouse. None of that changes the pain we all go through at BD and during a spouse MLC. And I think all our visions, life experiences and journey are important.
One size does not fit all. A size that has fitted us some time ago may no longer fit, a size that fits now may not fit in the future.
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Probley it released me from the burden of standing
That's a profound statement.... in fact, I really appreciate the rest of your perspective as well, and the fact that you can condense your thoughts..... well, I wish I could do that, LOL!!
I may be wrong but the feeling I have is that, a LBS choosing, and choosing to stop standing and close the door makes some people here very uncomfortable. I understand that. And that it may seem strange that someone comes here as a stander and end up stopping being one.
That may be true.... in my case, it doesn't make me uncomfortable because I know that this isn't for everyone, for a LOT of reasons.. some having to do with life lessons to be learned.. my way is NOT the only way... it's just the only way for me. However, this forum WAS started by RCR to give support to people who choose to stand for their marriage.... it seems it has morphed into a whole other thing.... I think it has lost it's focus is all, and I DO wonder about it..... because I feel there is WAAAAAY more support and understanding for divorce recovery than there is for info on MLC or how to combat the fallout from the MLC behaviors..... there is little to NO support, online or in real life for people who have been left standing in the dust for another woman... abandoned with kids... but who have faith and hope that there marriage will one day be restored and their family dysfunction healed.
I do appreciate your and Mercury's honesty..... I really do!
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Well I'll tell you what I just got a scarier topic than this one handed to me this morning.
ExH said ( for the second time in the 5 months I've been here) that we probably will get remarried anyway. Like that's his decision. ::)
If there is a God in heaven (and I do believe there is) I would hope he would have enough mercy on me to keep this idiot who divorced me from asking me for quite a while because the answer will be no. And as stupid as it sounds I don't want to hurt him like that by telling him no.
I was violated so throughly by being given no choice but to divorce him I cannot for the life of me imagine being married to him again.
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LG, I did not come from another board. I have never been in another board before in my life. I've looked at some. They all seemed too agressive and unkind to all parts involved and I do not relate to that sort of behaviour.
What do I get from being in the forum? I learn a lot. And, when I was a stander, it was a place where people would understand the situation.
The divorce doing is not all OW2 doing (husband has talked about it before he left and during OW1) but I do know OW2 has a lot to do with it. Husband's lawyer is her friend.
I have no idea why I have not heard from my husband all this time. No, he never initiates contact except through divorce court, but for the one time he text me saying my kitten was dying and then, that she had died. The only times I’ve heard of him I was the one who contacted (legal/taxes issues, to tell a relative has died, that sort of things). I had stopped talked to him since OW2 become public and he filled for the first fault divorce process.
I think he is the one who is stuck. Why on earth does he goes not for one, but two fault divorces? He knows they take time and, on top of it, he also drags them. Why does he drag my temporary alimony request? Why did he not accept my offer or mediation right after OW1 was history? I’ve offered him all sorts of easy possibilities. He never accepted a single one. Would say that, after all, he is the one who is really does not want a divorce.
To what I’m stuck is to a legal system that is slower than a snail and a man that drags what should had long be solved. Different from being stuck to husband or resent husband.
My cousins are children of divorced parents. They do not harbour resentment at any of their parents nor my uncle now wife, then OW. They (actually we all) get along very well with my uncle former OW, now wife. But the families are not blended. My cousins stayed and lived with my aunt, OW children lived with her and my uncle lived on his own. Know everyone is a grown up and has its life.
On the other hand, my FIL always was a philanderer, has had OW since I started dating husband, has divorced (many years after we started dated, we were already married for years when the divorce happened) and has been living with her for years. Husband always resented, and detested his dad behaviour…Funny, he does not seem to get he is doing the same thing…
I had no string of long term relationships with troubled partners. Only had one serious boyfriend before husband and it was a fine relationship. I was a kid. It was all nice and kiddy and sweet.
I meet my husband when I was 18. Things were nice for us. We both had normal family issues, he had is issues with is dad and his dad’s philandering and OW, but it never was that much of a problem for the tow of us. However, I think it was a major problem for husband. The marriage was normal. It had its down, like any marriage. There were never intimacy problems, we had a lot in common, we build and created many joint creative/cultural projects.
Well, if you and your first husband get along, still go out, there was no MLC nor other person, can’t see much reason for you and your first husband to divorce…Even if I get you were in that total high craziness do to your uncle passing away and meeting your lost sweet heart.
Divorce does not solve most problems in a normal marriage. In a MLC one it may solve some.
Actually, I thought I would be married for life. So did husband (before the crisis). I’m happy. The divorce would only let me feel freed from all this constant court nonsense, left me with the financial issues sorted out and put a legal end to something that no longer exists.
It is the only way to move on if you want absolute closure, finances sorted out and a new serious relationship. It is not the only way to move on a more personal/spiritual way. The unresolved legal and financial stuff is the part that makes me less happy. I don’t like to have that stuff hanging and not closed. It drains me, It makes no sense and it is not logical.
Think that is the part that may cause confusion, is that to me, legal ending is needed. I don't like to have unresolved business pending. 3 plus years of legal stuff that never gets sorted out is way too much time for my liking.
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Wow, in this - that is quite a statement! My H told me after he moved out, that we would "have to be divorced if we were to ever stand a chance of getting back together again" :o :o :o
That was months ago now though. My feeling was similar though - why the hell go to the trouble of DIVORCING someone, if you think there is even the most vague possibility that you might want them back at some point? Or he may have been trying to manipulate me into moving the divorce forward more quickly. WHO KNOWS. I remember saying to him that I felt that divorce was probably the final nail in the coffin (after the affair and the abandonment). (I know never say never, and HB has stated that she believes that it is the MLCer marrying the other person, not divorce that makes reconciliation unlikely)
One of his more MLCery moments for sure. I did not start this topic because I WANT a divorce , I started it because for some of us it is very very difficult to avoid - financial arrangements depend on it (depending on where you live - where I live there is no formal separation - you are married or divorced and if your MLCer is messing around with money, getting himself into debt - whatever - the divorce is the only way of protecting any assets you are entitled to. I have kids, I can't AFFORD to have NOTHING at this stage in my life. I gave up several years of work to be a SAHM and to move for H's career. I have no pension, although I am back to work the ONLY savings I have are ones that I shared with H (yes there is a lesson in there for me about all my eggs in one basket, believe me I Know, but the lesson does not alleviate my immediate financial pressure). So I will divorce. I have stood, and I have lapsed, and I am standing again (for me, I guess) to complete my healing. I have still not written off the opportunity to reconcile if H were to ever indicate he would want to, I honestly don't know how I would feel about it, but I also know that unlike those that stand forever (who I really do respect) I will not. I want to feel true love for someone again. I want to enjoy passion again. I want companionship again. And if H does not return (like you did not in your first marriage, LG) I don't want to think that those things are gone from my life forever and I had my only shot at them. I wanted to hear if there are ANY positives from divorce, precisely because I don't really want one, but have not been left with any alternative so I NEED TO FIND something to hold on to, to help make something I don't want feel less bad. I have made it clear that I am giving him what HE wants, that it is not my CHOICE and he has had to do the ground work. I am sure that OW is pushing for D, and I have not given it to him quite the way he expected (he had me in mediation one week after he left and I walked out of mediation thinking WHOA, this is GOING to slow down because he is moving WAY too fast (my only moment of strenght and clarity at that time and before I had found this site). I am not advocating divorce, I would prefer if I could protect my assets and my children and custody arrangements another way...
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"My H told me after he moved out, that we would "have to be divorced if we were to ever stand a chance of getting back together again""
Below is a blog RCR did that may provide some insight. MLCers are definitely not rational beings.
http://loveanyway.theherosspouse.com/?paged=14
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If there is a God in heaven (and I do believe there is) I would hope he would have enough mercy on me to keep this idiot who divorced me from asking me for quite a while because the answer will be no.
Thanks for that line Long haul, it made me smile. :)
honour
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One of his more MLCery moments for sure. I did not start this topic because I WANT a divorce , I started it because for some of us it is very very difficult to avoid - financial arrangements depend on it (depending on where you live - where I live there is no formal separation - you are married or divorced and if your MLCer is messing around with money, getting himself into debt - whatever - the divorce is the only way of protecting any assets you are entitled to. I have kids, I can't AFFORD to have NOTHING at this stage in my life. I gave up several years of work to be a SAHM and to move for H's career. I have no pension, although I am back to work the ONLY savings I have are ones that I shared with H (yes there is a lesson in there for me about all my eggs in one basket, believe me I Know, but the lesson does not alleviate my immediate financial pressure). So I will divorce.
Very true, S&D, for some of us it is very difficult do avoid because financial arrangments depend on it. I, right now, have nothing (of material assets). I mainly worked from home on the creative projects we created. Choose to do that instead of having a career just of my own. Without me doing the work I did none of the projects would had worked. On the other hand, without husband's creativeness and input none of them would had started. We where a perfect work/creative team. So, like yours, my only assets are the ones I share with husband. And husband is claiming he is the sole owner and the only one who has the right to them. Well, he is not. I worked very hard for 20 years (we started working together since we begun to date) in our joint creations.
Sorry but I will not let him have it all (well, he already took it all but a divorce will make in return the part that does no belong to him).
I also respect those that stand forever but cannot do so myself.
Don't think anyone in this site advocates divorce. Simply, sometimes, we have to do it.
And, remember, divorce is not the end. Unless we choose it to be, or our MLCer never returns, it does not have to be the end.
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I think everyone on this Forum is here for different reasons and all of them are valid...none of chose to be in the situations we find ourselves in and we need support, friendship, kindness and validation from each other...no judgement necessary.
I too, after a year of being totally disrespected by my H living with his OW, regardless of MLC I will have to divorce him - because of financial reasons...H is so cowardly and suffering from ostritch syndrome that he would never Divorce me...I meant every word of my vows made in church in 1982 - my H is the only one who forgot them when he betrayed me with his low-life OW...
I dread the day I enter the solicitor's office to say "I want to divorce my husband" because in essence it isn't true, but the law in this country now does not support me in any way financially without that "piece of paper" that will make him financially support me. I will then need my friends on this Forum more than ever...I will need support, love and help - not being told that this Forum is NOT for me any more...? because who says it isn't? I will be the same person when I am going through the divorce process that I am now? nothing changes.....my reasons are my own.... I DO NOT advocate divorce, I am a Catholic and Divorce is not and never has been on my radar....but it was not me that chose this path...
There is only one person who can decide whether the Forum is for me or not... and that person is ME, that goes for all the other LBSs on the site who are here for the same reasons as me...friendship, strength and a place to feel less alone...we have already been 'judged' and 'blamed' on various levels by our Hs/Ws we need the Forum to help us heal....
My opinion for what its worth.
Love and hugs as always
Fox xxx
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I for one hope everyone stays, despite our outcomes. There are so many more lessons we can teach each other.
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I think everyone on this Forum is here for different reasons and all of them are valid...none of chose to be in the situations we find ourselves in and we need support, friendship, kindness and validation from each other...no judgement necessary.
I too, after a year of being totally disrespected by my H living with his OW, regardless of MLC I will have to divorce him - because of financial reasons...H is so cowardly and suffering from ostritch syndrome that he would never Divorce me...I meant every word of my vows made in church in 1982 - my H is the only one who forgot them when he betrayed me with his low-life OW...
I dread the day I enter the solicitor's office to say "I want to divorce my husband" because in essence it isn't true, but the law in this country now does not support me in any way financially without that "piece of paper" that will make him financially support me. I will then need my friends on this Forum more than ever...I will need support, love and help - not being told that this Forum is NOT for me any more...? because who says it isn't? I will be the same person when I am going through the divorce process that I am now? nothing changes.....my reasons are my own.... I DO NOT advocate divorce, I am a Catholic and Divorce is not and never has been on my radar....but it was not me that chose this path...
There is only one person who can decide whether the Forum is for me or not... and that person is ME, that goes for all the other LBSs on the site who are here for the same reasons as me...friendship, strength and a place to feel less alone...we have already been 'judged' and 'blamed' on various levels by our Hs/Ws we need the Forum to help us heal....
My opinion for what its worth.
Love and hugs as always
Fox xxx
I agree. Let this place be a safe place.
honour
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Me too and it is such a wonderful place to learn so much about life in general and gain insight.
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I just need to say regardless of where I am or what I have done, I do not like divorce, would never have chosen divorce and I KNOW that divorce will be the worst thing my kids will have to overcome.
However, I also am not in favor of obstructionist tactics to oppose a divorce for any reason--they are expensive and emotionally draining to say the least, and in a worst case, they can be financially devastating and make things worse for the kids. If a partner wants divorce, or a divorce is the best and fastest way to any kind of stability for the LBS, then it is the way to go. The abandoning spouse already trashed the marriage, and we all say the old marriage is dead anyway, so I do believe at some point that a divorce is a piece of paper and is not an obstacle to standing. You do not stand for legal reasons, standing is something else entirely.
And life truly is what you make of it. My divorce will be the best thing that ever happened to me because I will make it so. I am already in a good place, and where I ultimately land will be a different place than I would be if it had not happened, but on my death bed I will know that every experience and every choice led me to where I am at that moment and I will "rejoice and be glad in it." And I hope I am gifted the time, the wisdom and the strength to make my divorce the best thing that ever happened to my kids also. It is not at this moment, but it can be, even tomorrow, if I can get them to a place to appreciate everything they have right now.
That's what we all have to do--appreciate what we have, even if it's not what we wanted. And that is the only reason I commented. I will never champion divorce, but since it's what I got, and what others here are facing, I am not going to fight the fact that I like having my real name back, I really do, and a part of me likes that I have another tough experience notch on my belt, but it has not caused one additional wrinkle on my face--he will not ruin me, I can do "life" and even love it, even without him, if that's how he has to have it... No use dwelling on the negative...
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I do believe at some point that a divorce is a piece of paper and is not an obstacle to standing. You do not stand for legal reasons, standing is something else entirely.
I was not the one who filed for divorce... my exW did. So based on the qoute above, then yes, continue to Stand even if you are legally divorced, it is a choice.
I don't know if there is something called an "in-betweener" because if there is... I think I could be categorized as that. I will not look for love/a partner or a soulmate "on purpose" and will avoid being in that predicament, but "if by chance" it still finds me 10, 15 years or more down the road then I could look at it as "Maybe God knows best". I will use the time to my advantage, hopefully to build my self financially sound so I could support my kids in various ways. If I surpass that goal that I set and become the next "Steve Jobs" , "Donald Trump", or "Bill Gates" then it's a win win for me and my children. Now if my exW all of a sudden starts taking interest in me when I reach that goal, then maybe I should also think twice if she actually is out of the Tunnel or she would just want a piece of that accomplishment. LOL
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I have not posted in a long time, but felt strongly that I needed to write today. My H of 20 years left for another woman. I was a stander for almost a year. One day I realized that standing was going to destroy me. I had gotten a life, sold the family home and bought a new home, was raising my children without any support from their father. I found myself angry on a regular basis. I was as detached as I could get without being divorced, but yet I couldn't find my internal happiness.
Once I realized that I could no longer stand, my mind started to clear, I felt better about myself and knew that this was the right decision. The reason that I am writing today is because that year of standing has caused me a significant financial loss. I did not take care of myself financial because I didn't want to make him angry - I thought we would never reconcile if I fought him over money issues.
Well, here I am 1 1/2 years later, still fighting (and paying huge attorney bills). I do not receive child support, I will receive a much smaller of the 401k that we built during our marriage, my STBX is fighting me for the equity in my new home, I have been paying therapist bills for one of my daughters on a weekly basis for almost 12 months...the list goes on.
If I could go back and do it again I would agree to the divorce sooner and protect my future. Now that I have "let go" I am in such a great place in my life and am much happier. My daughters are happy that I have let go and together we are starting to heal.
I am not saying divorce is the answer for everyone, but even if you do stand, take the advice of all the very wise people on this board: protect yourself financially!
Best of luck to all!
Summer
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I agree totally....
Hugs Foxy xxx
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Summer123 ~ I am sorry you went through a rough time. I am finding that I am feeling the same as you. My H is MONSTER again because of money. I filed 2 months after he left because I found out he was living with OW months before he left me. I knew I had to protect myself and my son. H won't even give me money to buy my son Christmas gifts yet he the day before Thanksgiving, out of guilt bought our son a very expensive gift. He lied to our son about what he did on Thanksgiving. My H also told me more lies yesterday, he has gotten me in trouble with the IRS for lying to them. I don't think I can take much more. Every day I ask myself, do I want this man back. He has been so cruel to me and our son. I really don't know how he lives with himself.
I am seeing a Therapist and so is our son. H told me yesterday we don't need Therapy. He said son and I need to just deal with it. Everyone gets divorced. :'( He does nothing but lie to me, our son and I'm sure to OW. I do believed we all need to protect ourselves from these MLCers. My H has done some shocking things. He is not the man I have been married to. I don't know who he is.
All's he thinks about is himself. I can deal with his crap but when it comes to our son, well then I have to speak up. H told our son he was coming down to spend Christmas with his son. Now he says he never said that. Our son is heartbroken. OW is more important.
Typical MLC behavior I guess.
I feel the same as you most days, that standing is going to destroy me. I am confused. I just don't know anymore what I should be doing. I have been nice to my H. He is nice to me but usually for a reason. Like trying to get me to lie to the IRS and I will not do that. I am an honest person unlike H. I am just sick of all of this.
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Nowhere on this board does it say that by standing you should ruin yourself financially, actually the advice we give is exactly the opposite.
You stand and PROTECT yourself and your assets.
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Yes OP, and sometimes protecting yourself and your assets means divorce. If your crazy MLCer is burning through money and lying to the IRS, as NB is facing, divorce is the ultimate protection, and sometimes the only protection you can have.
I wanted to divorce while he was still madly in love with OW and would give me what I needed without fighting too hard and costing me to spend all our savings and risking my ability to send my kids to college. I knew there was probably an optimal time, and I think I got it. There is still a possibility of R, but while I wait for it, I know I am okay financially.
Everyone should think about that, covenant keeper, or not. God recognizes the law of the land--that was the whole "render unto caesar" thing. A legal divorce not not break a covenant to God if it protects you and your kids--I believe that...
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Yes OP, and sometimes protecting yourself and your assets means divorce. If your crazy MLCer is burning through money and lying to the IRS, as NB is facing, divorce is the ultimate protection, and sometimes the only protection you can have.
I wanted to divorce while he was still madly in love with OW and would give me what I needed without fighting too hard and costing me to spend all our savings and risking my ability to send my kids to college. I knew there was probably an optimal time, and I think I got it. There is still a possibility of R, but while I wait for it, I know I am okay financially.
Everyone should think about that, covenant keeper, or not. God recognizes the law of the land--that was the whole "render unto caesar" thing. A legal divorce not not break a covenant to God if it protects you and your kids--I believe that...
Yes Lisa, it is a sad reality that some of us have to face. I feel very fortunate that I have been put in that situation, however if an when the time comes, I have a plan in place.
It's funny ( in a strange way) but money was never an issue in our marriage. Even when I was a stay at home mom, the bills were always paid first, and we lived on what was left. We did without a lot during that time, but I would not give up being able to stay at home with my kids until they went to school for anything. And you know what, I thank my H for that. He worked very hard so that I was able to do that.
We definitely need to protect ourselves and our kids... if a piece of paper is needed to do that, than so be it!
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Below is part of RCR's post from the thread titled "Heros Spouse" where RCR discusses the discussion of divorce. I think it's beneficial to have it in this thread also. It has some valuable insight because there are posters who decide they need to protect themselves financially, and there are other posters who feel the discussion may lean toward encouraging divorce. Like RCR says toward the end of her post, I think it's a good thing to be careful and aware.
"What seems to be the discomfort is not the divorce support but what some feel is divorce encouragement.
Now that makes sense. I’m not saying I have seen it—I don’t read the threads in detail and so you guys are more familiar. And what some of you may think of as support, others will interpret as encouragement.
I support you as you go through your journeys. Some of you will choose to get divorced and I support you in that decision—though I may not encourage it. But some of you will get divorced without choosing and we are here to support you as you go through that process. What we need to encourage is that you protect yourself. Sometimes choosing an inevitable divorce is something we may encourage. It does not mean we are encouraging divorce, but that we feel it is what you need to do—as a part of your Stand—to protect yourself and your children.
Some people see that as encouraging an immoral act. Some see it as supporting your Stand and your security in inevitable circumstances.
So I am just going to ask that we all be careful and aware. This is a site that is about preventing divorce—amidst going through the process of divorce. So of course there are going to be divorces! If it seems you are encouraging divorce, consider why and explain why so that readers may understand. Maybe the person to whom you are posting knows because you’ve gone over it before, but that person is not the only reader. What does it look like to someone else?"
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Thanks DGU,
I was just going to come in and put up a link to that post because it is really for both this thread and that one.
While re-reading this thread I started writing what I think will be my next post on the Blog on this topic--I think I'll take some of that excerpt; I've writen more already, but the way I said it yesterday may be better. I don't like Divorce, I don't like the word. But it is a reality.
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RCR....I agree. I don't like divorce and it can become a reality. It became a reality for me.....and I deal with it by understanding that the MLC process will trump marital status. I have coping skills.....it is my hope that the MLC process might further develop those in my MLCer.
I post very little about my divorce. It was quick....final less than 6 months after bomb drop.....no attorneys. Financial protection was not my top priority....it was to give the entire responsibility for the divorce to my MLCer. I am not saying this as advice on how to handle it, it's simply how I chose to. I am not on the forum because of my marital status......I am on the forum to understand MLC, the behaviors associated with it, and for support in accepting the MLC process.
From RCR
"Now, that being said, this is still not a divorce support group and it is not a place to come to learn about divorce. You can share amongst yourselves the protective sort of measures you need to take. Offer advice. But there are additional informational resources out there on the rest of the Internet and you can provide those links."
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I am one of the members here who is divorced.I followed the advice of RCR in the early days of this site and found myself in a space where divorce was inevitable.I am not proud to be divorced nor happy.If I chose to re write the book, I couldnt do more to have prevented it. My H is now marrying the OW who I have found recently is as awful as the stories have described. My H is like a puppet being played from the back.I cannot do anything.I did all I could when I was married to save our re;ationship but it wasnt to be.I believe divorce in our world is a piece of paper as in many ways is marriage.It as one has already mentioned the vows made before god and they are not as easily broken...Interestingly my ex H is chosing Rome with his new wife....what an insult to God and the vatican city.
I am not interested in anyone else.I love my girls and they are my priority. Divorce protected me and them both finacially and mentally.
I have been here before with my H and it is very likely I will never be here with anyone else....Divorce carrys pain and wounds for a very long time but sometimes it is just not avoidable. hugs to all and let us be judged on the learning we can bring to the forum on the many journey's rather than the piece of paper many of us never wanted sign.