Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: growing every day on December 02, 2011, 04:24:25 AM
-
I've wanted to start a discussion on this, but wasn't sure what to say.
RCR has created a place where those that have found themself in a situation, like we all have can come to talk, vent, cry, be angry, discuss, etc...
I know that RCR does not advocate divorce. If I had not found this site when I had, I think I may have well been divorced already. But from what I've learned here, I have read the articles, found many new friends and also educated MYSELF on what I need to do.
I think we could all agree that everyone's situation is different. What is troubling me is that those that are facing divorce, for whatever reason feel as if they are no longer welcome, or their comments are not needed. Maybe I am being overly sensitive, I don't know, but at times I feel like others with differing views posts things that are uncomfortable to read or hear, they get attacked for their differing views.
This site is something that is unique. Unlike others that I have seen out there, where the main goal seems to be to either villifly your H, or "use these 7 secrets to make your H/W fall back in love with you", here we get to be a part of something that is wonderful and safe.
I'm not sure exactly what I am trying to say here, except that I hope that everyone feels safe here. We all have enough going on in our lives, and it is comforting to have a place to come to where everyone understands, and cares.
I am so grateful to have this forum and to have access to all of the articles that RCR has spent so much time creating. I know one thing, without this site..... well, I don't know where I'd be.
Hugs to everyone!!
GED
-
This is the trouble with written word. The passion we feel can come across as harsh because we don't hear the nuances or see the facial expressions. Words are only a small part.
So for me I have difficulty when people who never wanted to stand come on and tell us how it is ok. they come from a different place.
I know that people here are divorcing because of a variety of reasons, financial protection, being forced upon them or simply they have moved on and no longer want to stand. To me they have gone through a process and this is the outcome. They are welcome.
They show a very important aspect of MLC, that the LBS is able to take control even in difficult circumstances and yes that there is happiness.
Now as the board matures there is going to be more reconciliations and more moving on stories but at pesent to me it feels that the pro divorce voices almost out weigh the standers. Standers need support as they go through this difficult time they do especially when they are still standing.
And once again it reads badly. We all need support. But if you have moved on you need different support to those who are standing. We would all get divorce support from our families. It is the standing support we lack.
But I don't want to toss our friends Off here if they move on. And even those who aren't standers and never were we grow to care about even if I think sometimes why are you in a standers forum????
It isn't an insult just a genuine interest. And there a few non standers here so this isn't AIMED at anyone in particular. I can understand once bring a stander but no more but never have been a stander it makes me curious.
-
I can tell you why I came here and why I stay. I am not sure what RCR expects as her forum grows up, but I suspect she wants to contribute to the ongoing and larger dialogue about MLC and how to navigate it. In that regard, all experiences count—she needs to know what happens to each and every one of us, standers, non-standers, the ones who reconcile and the ones who don’t. It could be possible that more non-standers reconcile than standers—how interesting would that be—the only R’s I know in real life were not standers… Furthermore, standing has many different definitions, even to the standers here. And most standers, even in their conviction know they have a limit--most will not stand for a lifetime if R does not seem imminent at some point.
I found this board long after BD and also long after I took solace in an intimate friendship with another man. Based on what I perceived of the definition--RCR's stated definition-- by simply dating, I abandoned my stand. I was honest when I first came here, but this was also the ONLY site where people seemed to actually care about MLC in all its puzzles and nuances. The discussion here is intelligent and kind and I appreciate that.
But I also knew from BD that my H was going to divorce me and marry his OW—he told me that and while he did show a few attempts at R, I knew they were false. My H can not be alone and that is why I find LG and Synnica so fascinating. I knew that I either had to take my path or theirs, and I knew I could not do what they are doing. Plus, I have discussed my sitch with RCR--how right is it to stand through his marriage? Some think only a first marriage can be a covenant, but others disagree—that every marriage is sacred. I struggle with this daily—if I love him, what is TRULY in the best interest of me, him and our children.
Even if I accept MLC, there is no litmus test. I have no way to know if he is truly MLC, or if he is not, if for whatever reason—whether it’s because he is a selfish jerk, or all the things he says about me are true, that I am emotionally absent, controlling and cruel—he is doing the best thing for him and therefore, for me and his kids. I really CAN’T KNOW. I like to think I know, but I really don’t. He is married to another woman who he believes is his everything. Perhaps I should embrace her and let her be another positive influence in the lives of my kids and the best wife he could ever have, and help her in that. People do make mistakes and I believe if there is a God, he is a compassionate and forgiving God.
I am jealous of everyone whose spouse is having an obvious affair-down, where everyone can say—WTF? Mine is not like that, my exH is, as best, a mild MLCer. Some of the signs are there, but others are not. If all he is is a narcissistic jerk, there is no reason to stand, if he is an MLCer who has married his OW, am I supposed to respect that marriage, anyway, even RCR is not sure how she feels.
So I stay here because I have been through divorce and a remarriage by my ex, and I have kids who are having to live through the sudden abandonment of their father. I have no RL friends who have experienced this and the other MLC boards are not as smart. I want to see how everyone else comes through the process, and I want to offer whatever help I can to people like S&D and Phoenix who are now in the same place I was six months ago. Standing or not, you may still face divorce and it sucks and it hurts and it helps to know that others have made it through. But I have told RCR many times that she can kick me off here at any time and I will be compliant and respectful. I do truly respect her overall mission and never want to be a hindrance to it.
-
Shantilly...
I also ponder the same questions as you do...
Like RCR said in a recent post...not verbatim...maybe if we knew the stories of why people no longer, or never chose to stand, we could benefit and have much more understanding on why they would choose a forum like this...
LL, You have always posted in a way that everyone knows these things, and yes, even though I am a stander, I like to follow...
IMO non standers are coming and posting with no other info than the fact they are divorcing...or waiting to be divorced, and it seems as if the blame lies solely on the spouse. These types of postings are hard for me to read...its seems as if some see divorce as the only answer, but really dont elaborate on they why of the sitch...if we were able to read the reasoning, atleast for me...I would be much more open minded and interested in hearing them.
these are only my opinions, but I hope they can help...as everyone is welcome, and the more stories we are able to hear, well I think, is better..
Hugs,
L
PS I will be one to admit freely, I have RARELY been posting, even though I have been here as long as I have because of the worry of being attacked due to different views....
-
GED is right, this place is different from all other out there. Here he don’t get our spouses villifly (nor even the other person) nor are told to use “these 7 secrets to make your H/W fall back in love with you".
And for those who arrived here as standers, and who like me, have been reading, first the site, than the forum, from months before we join the board, it makes sense that we stay here.
A divorce from a MLCer is not like other divorces. A LBS because of a husband/wife is not like a LBS from a WAS or a person that divorces amicably. In a normal divorce forum we would not get the help and support we need not would we be understood. And the other MLC foruns I took a look at where very poor intellectually, very aggressive and unkind. Not my cup of tea.
The fact that, currently, there may seem to be more people divorcing (and divorce and stop standing are not the same thing) is, I think, like Shant said due to the forum/site still be young. In time we may start to see more reconciliations (from people who never divorce, from those who divorce, from standers or no-standers).
RCR does not advocate divorce (doubt any of us here does) but has said that she understands that sometimes it is needed or happens. She also says that standing changes. We can stand at a time, stop standing, go back to stand.
And one of the things that made really like this site, before I join the board, apart from all the great articles was this, that is on the site front page “you may be a strict Stander, or you may choose to Stand without a strict aversion to divorce, or you may simply be uncertain whether your relationship is worth a Stand. It is for each individual to choose whether to Stand, or whether to step down. Some Standers are for Life, continuing to Stand knowing restoration of their marriages is unlikely. They are the Covenant Keepers, honouring their vows even as their spouse may marry another. Regardless of your beliefs and goals, you are welcome.”
Does not make any sense to say to someone who come here as a stander, and no longer is, of even if to a non stander who had a MLCer spouse that wanted to understant MLC, not be here anymore.
Agree with Lisa, think RCR would be interested in know more about what happens more broadly with LBS/MCLers/MLC.
Again, agree with Lisa, think most standers they know they have a limit and will not stand for a lifetime unless at a certain point R is eminent. And, yes, standing has many different definitions.
If we go away we learn no more, both we and the others will not have a variety of experiences, will not read different stories, will not be more rich, wise, knowledge people. And it may not provide such a better study field for MLC and its consequences on both LBS and MCLer. Like the crisis, those consequences take time.
A LBS that is divorcing and/or moving on needs as much support as a stander, a support that, like I’ve written above, can not be provided by a regular divorce support group.
I’m in the middle between LG & Synnica and Lisa. I managed to stand with husband having OW1 and OW2 but would not had managed to stand with in living with me, nor having to deal with him coming and going between me and OW. Of course mine is not divorced yet so he is not formally married to OW2. He lives with her, he is a vanisher. I see no near end to such situation and I will not remain standing and hoping that, one day (in a month? In a year? In ten years) he will “wake up” and wants back.
A point comes when, at least for me, a decision needs to me made. And, frankly, if they are to be back, divorce or no divorce, standing or no divorce will not, IMHO, will not make much of a difference in the end. The one difference divorce and move on will make is for the LBS. The MCLer, if wanting back, will still wanting back after done with the crisis even if the LBS has divorced and moved on. I know some of theses cases from real life.
I’ve read stayeds husband letter a few times. A few parts took my attention, and I think, helped my decision of stop standing . Why? Well, like many, for a long while, even if I had not problem with being divorced, I was in a doubt. But reading the letter and answering some questions, made me realise a few things:
“So, if you stop chasing and checking up and worrying you might actually lose him. Would that be any worse than the suffering you are experiencing right now? How much longer do you want to hurt, be angry and confused? On the other hand, you thought he was your life partner and you feel that you are abandoning him if you don't try to "help him through this". It is a horrible situation to be in.”
No, it would not be any worse if I loose him. I also don’t feel I’m abandoning him (not anymore. I did for a long time) and never felt like “helping him trought this”. It made the mess, he must help himself out of it.
“Then live your life as if he may not come back. Believe it, don't play it: he may not come back. If he doesn't then how will that be any worse than what you are living now? On the other hand, if he feels the danger like I did, he may be smacked back into reality. Depending on when that happens and where you are with your life you can make a decision at that time as to what you want to do.”
It will not be any worse than what I’m living right now. I’ll go and live my life like he is never coming back. And, of course, like stayed’s husband said, if he may come into reality again, depending where I will at my life then, I can decide what to do when/if It happens.
“You can't be sure where this decision will lead you but you need more than hopes and dreams that things will be the way they were. You are very sad and you feel very sorry for him and hope that he will be OK but you have had enough and you can't let this situation ruin two lives. If he comes to his senses and wants to be with you then you hope that happens before your life takes a new direction and the door closes. You are not going to live in the past and you are prepared to move on without him.”
I don’t need things to be the way they were (they will never be the same again) but, indeed, I do need more than hopes and dreams. Yep, I’m not going to live in the past and are prepared to live without him.
There is also this, “There are lots of times though that you see the illusion for what it really is. It is hard to deal with so you block it by doing "all kinds of fun things". Keep yourself busy, go places, do things: eat in nice restaurants, go dancing, see movies, keep your mind busy. As long as there are bright lights and distractions you won't dwell on your own stupidity. When you get tired and your mind starts to wander you suppress it.”
My husband is deep, deep, deep into a life of party, the king of the night life, playing music at clubs, working 3 jobs, always surrounded by people, noise, bright lights, travels abroad, a bunch of mates that say “you’re the man”. He had also told me, more than once, that he cannot stop. If he does, he will have to think about things (the things he has done). My husband will never “wake up” unless there is no more anchor. And I don’t me “wake up” and come back to me, I mean “wake up” from that life, grow, heal, become a different and better person.
Remember, we all know our MCLer best, as well as ourselves. And no, I’m not planning to leave the board. :)
-
I have been on this site for about a year and a half. When I started posting, I was already divorced. I have never felt unwelcome. Quite the opposite.
I do not focus on the fact that I am divorced. My MLCer needs to go through the MLC process before I concern myself with reconciliation. Most make it through. I believe that. There will then be an opportunity for reconciliation, but to use a word RCR uses.....it will be "later".
The article on Acceptance sums up well why I am here. RCR writes that Acceptance of the MLC process is a requirement, and that Acceptance usually comes through education about MLC. There's no better source of information about MLC than this site.
Each of our views on divorce will be based on our personal belief system. What RCR writes below from the blog about giving advice fits my belief system very well.
From RCR
"In my time coaching on forums I have only seen 2 situations where I was familiar enough and felt that divorce would be better."
Here is another part of that same article that may be beneficial to think about.
"I know some of you may want to be blunt. Great, but that is not always going to enable the wounded bird to trust you. Earn trust first."
-
DGU,
sorry same to you though as LL...your story has helped me see too!
Hugs,
L
-
I love all your posts and have made so many good friends on this Forum, long may it go on.... a place of safety and solace away from the madness we all endure in our lives, imposed by our MLCers...I thank God the day I found this Forum in March this year...
Unfortunately for me D is on the way.....through no fault of my own and as I have said so many times before not of my making....but I have to protect myself financially and emotionally.... I will be the same person post-Divorce as I am now...a rabbit in headlights, still wondering "why", still brushing off the shrapnel of hurting Monster words and deeds by my H, and trying to believe slowly each day that all the ills of the world are NOT of my making and that despite any mistakes I made in our marriage I AM NOT TO BLAME for his betrayal and affair.... It has taken me a long time and lots of 2x4s from Just Asking, Voyager, Limitless, Moving Forward, Stayed, Milvana, Bewildered and many more of my friends to get me here..... I slip back, but nowhere near as much as I did and my recovery time is less each time... so well done to you all ;)
I shall continue to come to the Forum to smile, cry, vent, rant, agree, disagree and to find the friendship I have found since March...no-one can tell me that because I end up a Divorcee through no fault of my own, that I cannot stay on this Forum and I am sure the Founder Rollercoaster would never agree with those sentiments either...inside I will always 'Stand' but in practice my H has knocked me over and made it impossible for me to Stand any more....
Long may the Forum reign and as Tiny Tim said in d!ckens' "A Christmas Carol" - God Bless Us - Everyone :)
Love and hugs
Foxy xxxx
-
to me it feels that the pro divorce voices almost out weigh the standers. Standers need support as they go through this difficult time they do especially when they are still standing.
I am not "pro divorce" but my exW pulled the trigger, she filed, and I was served the papers... quite embarrassing when you get served in front of friends, and relatives. If this was up to me I would never file. One thing l found out though that when you are in the process of being divorced and you don't get your head straight, you will definitely regret not getting what you deserve when negotiating. I thought that showing her that I was willing to "give in" will "make her change her mind" the last minute (WRONG!!). I now realize that if I could just spread the word that if you are already in the process due to your partner initiating it, is.... "Put on your Business Cap" while negotiating, because it will have no bearing on whether they come back to you or not. (That is... if that info is valuable?)
And once again it reads badly. We all need support. But if you have moved on you need different support to those who are standing. We would all get divorce support from our families. It is the standing support we lack.
"Moving On"? When I read a post regarding this, I would just keep an open mind, but it should not influence anybody at all. If you "Stand" you "Stand". If you look at someone as moving on as someone that is convincing you to do the same then, it only shows how "detachment" has not really kicked in yet.
But I don't want to toss our friends Off here if they move on. And even those who aren't standers and never were we grow to care about even if I think sometimes why are you in a standers forum????
It isn't an insult just a genuine interest. And there a few non standers here so this isn't AIMED at anyone in particular. I can understand once bring a stander but no more but never have been a stander it makes me curious.
What would be nice is to have sub categories for different situations where in members that can offer their stories in a different perspective can post it there.
-
I have only been here a short time and I came to this forum divorced as well. In my case, I was the one that filed feeling as though I had no other option. It has taken forever it seems for the divorce to be finalized - it was just recently although H has been gone nearly four years now. In addition to the "normal" throes of MLC, I suffered from PTSD and an aggressive, punishing OW along with the spewings of H. I had no other idea of how to cope and move past all that has happened...thus the filing. What I know now???well, maybe it wasn't the right thing to do and maybe it would have changed things somewhat but I don't really think so. I have never felt unwelcome in the short time here. I know I have learned so much and it was welcome learning as I had always felt in my gut that something else was wrong in my situation. I know who my husband was and knew immediately that there was something amiss. It wasn't til I set eyes on these pages that I realized others felt the same way. I am grateful to be here and grateful, too, for the friends I have made, the advice, support and comfort I have received. Deep down, I believe in marriage and despise divorce but in this situation, I felt as though all had to stop in order to have the possibility of a new beginning some day.
I too wish to stay as long as welcome. Again, I have not felt unwelcome at all...in fact, just the opposite...and if there is occassional 'spew' here, I chalk it up to a bad day!!
-
Mission Statement
Welcome to the online community for MidlifeCrisisMarriageAdvocate.com. This site exists as an educational and supportive community for the purpose of surviving a spouse’s midlife crisis and/or infidelity regardless of whether the marriage survives or not, though it is based on that as a goal. Not all community members are Standers; it is for each individual to choose whether to Stand, or whether to step down. Not all community members share religious beliefs; this is a community for all Faiths; please be polite and respectful.
- To provide information, advice and support on how to Stand for marriage to men and women experiencing midlife crisis and infidelity in their marriages.
- To prevent divorces.
- To reduce the overall rate of divorce.
- To encourage an alternative to divorce.
- To encourage personal growth and loving of one’s Self.
This is accomplished by…
- Offering a community for non-judgmental support.
- Teaching and encouraging Agape and Forgiveness for all people and all situations.
- Providing resources for continuing development and education.
- Offering individual Coaching
We make no judgments; all are welcome. This is a place of love and support, not a place to degrade and insult others—including your MLC spouse.
Though heavily influenced by Christianity, people of all Faiths are welcome.
Though most of us are heterosexual, we do not discriminate based on sexual orientation.
When I wrote that I deliberately left a few things out because I wanted to keep it loose.
This is a website geared towards Standing and thus geared towards Standers. But I did not put it that way in the mission statement because that does not mean those who choose not to Stand are unwelcome. But as I state in the opening paragraph marital reconciliation is a goal of this site.
Sometimes we have to be very careful. We may not be meaning to attack and yet at times we are. Many of you landed here because you felt safe here and you felt attacked at other sites. But we are humans and so often the attacked become the attackers when they are in the majority.
So when we ask someone who is choosing not to Stand why they are here, I get it—especially when you wrap your question in reassurances about just being curious and not meaning to attack or be argumentative.
But when you ask it again and again and again…those reassurances become irrelevant.
I can understand once being a stander but no more but never have been a stander it makes me curious [why you are here at this forum].
Yes, I agree with that even more.
Those who come here as Standers and later choose to stop Standing stay because this is their home. Sometimes just asking why they are here makes them feel unwelcome—even though no harm was meant.
And for those who are not Standers…some come and become Standers. Some people are still just searching, they don’t know anything about Standing and they may think they have no options other than divorce. They feel powerless. So for them, this forum helps them to realize they have choices too.
And there are those who come in here and they are not Standing. They may not know what it is, but they still don’t want to Stand after learning about it. Some of them may come a few years after Bomb Drop like our recent poster, Guinevere. She had no idea this forum was geared specifically to Standing—she admitted it in her last post. That’s probably why she was surprised at the responses she received. Those who are feeling like Guinevere now feels soon after Bomb Drop are less likely to choose out forum as their home. It’s been a few years for her, so she may have settled here in her early days if we’d been here. Guinevere was no unsupportive of Standing—she said so in her initial post. Those who are unsupportive of it in general will probably not last long.
Once someone discovers that this place is overrun with Standers, they are probably not going to feel comfortable because they are going to feel the controversy…LettingGo will have a talk with them!
We need to remain open and welcome. It is not our jobs to change their beliefs or their minds. Maybe what they will get from us is learning to let go of the anger and choose forgiveness so that though they are divorced, they are able to have a more cordial relationship with their former spouse.
And what about those who would be Standers, but there situations are the rare extremes? Domestic violence, drug or alcohol addiction, sex addiction or chronic infidelity(much different than the infidelity we are experiencing), true personality disorders… They need help too. They need help dealing with their spouse who may be Boomeranging in their lives.
Standers versus NonStander may not be the same as Standing versus not Standing. Though I think that is much more about what this thread is about. It’s not about those who are divorced or divorcing versus Standers.
MLCers file for divorce—so many and maybe most of you will go through, are going through or have gone through the divorce process. You may or may not complete, but even I’ve been in it.
I have been on this site for about a year and a half. When I started posting, I was already divorced. I have never felt unwelcome. Quite the opposite.
And that is why…you are still a Stander. You fit in with the side that did not choose divorce—even if you were not the initiator.
AnneJ is choosing divorce, whether she is or is not initiating or doing the work. After Standing for awhile, she has decided not to Stand. She is here because this is her home and because it is kinder towards all people in the crisis. This is comfort; let’s keep it that.
Stander
A person who seeks to remain married while his or her spouse is seeking to escape the marriage; legal actions may or may not have been initiated or finalized. Some are Standers by action, while others are strict Standers in philosophy, believing divorce is an immoral action.
Standing usually provides an option of conditional return to a functional marriage for the spouse who is leaving, but some Standers simply Stand by refusing to seek or recognize legal divorce and refusing other relationships as an honor to their vows.
That is my basic definition of Standing and what it is to be a Stander. It is a strict definition. But let’s look at a Soft definition.
Soft Stander
Someone who may be accepting an (usually) unwanted divorce and who may or may not have initiated the divorce depending on circumstances. Though continuing with a single life and open to the option of finding a new love, the option of a conditional reconciliation remains open. There is no expectation and perhaps no hope or desire for reconciliation, but there remains a willingness to keep an open mind.
Lisalives, from what you’ve said before, that seems to be you. You may not expect it and you may or may not hope for it. But you accept the possibility and keep an open mind to it.
It could be possible that more non-standers reconcile than standers—how interesting would that be—the only reconciliations I know in real life were not standers.
That’s why I don’t fully buy into that. I think a lot of people out there just don’t like the label and what it stands for. They see Standing as some weak and doormat thing and they want no part of it. They don’t want a divorce, but he’s a jerk and she’s a b!tc# and they aren’t going to put up with this cheating and abuse…
Yes, Standing is for you. It’s something you do for your Self. But if that were all there were to Standing, it would have nothing to do with marriage and relationships. Living is for you. Exercising is for you. Eating healthy is for you. Meditation is for you…
What is troubling me is that those that are facing divorce, for whatever reason feel as if they are no longer welcome, or their comments are not needed. Maybe I am being overly sensitive, I don't know, but at times I feel like others with differing views posts things that are uncomfortable to read or hear, they get attacked for their differing views.
I think what we need to acknowledge and accept is that none of us here—most likely none of us—are Pro-Divorce.
The spouse of someone with NPD may not advocate divorce, but there are exceptions.
Not being Pro-Divorce does not mean 100% antidivorce.
But it is especially difficult when you become one of the exceptions.
And then there are the majority here who don’t consider their situation one of those exceptions, but just as I was certain Sweetheart would come through and we’d be together, you may be certain that whether your MLCer comes through or not, they aren’t going to choose to return to you. Maybe that was your intuitive Knowing. If you are a Covenant Keeper you will not date or remarry and will consider yourself married even though you know you will not be with your spouse again—in this life. Most of us are not Covenant Keepers. Most of us who have had the unique benefit of that intuitive Knowing would stop Standing. You may go through with Standing as a Grace period, but since you know your MLCer is gone, you might not call it Standing. It’s just you Grace period where you are not available for a relationship. The ending of the Grace period does not mean you start looking for a new relationship—you may or you may not.
80% of divorces are unilateral. One person does not want out of the marriage and the other files. Ha! The statistics probably miss a lot of unilateral divorces in which the person not wanting a divorce files because they need the protection.
Most, if not all, of us here are part of that unilateral divorce where we did not want it—regardless of who filed or will file.
We need to be open and helpful to everyone.
Now, that being said, this is still not a divorce support group and it is not a place to come to learn about divorce. You can share amongst yourselves the protective sort of measures you need to take. Offer advice. But there are additional informational resources out there on the rest of the Internet and you can provide those links.
The reason I do not have several board—A Divorced and Done board, a Reconciliation Board…is because I think that we will miss out on those stories if we separate and segregate. DB had those boards and I did not visit them…and I probably missed out. And I do not have a Piecing/Reconciling Board because I know that often times you will be there and then right back on the main board after your MLCer leaves. People headed to Piecing at the first sniff of return interest and then got disappointed. I saw people post over there a month or two after Bomb Drop.
Now as the board matures there is going to be more reconciliations and more moving on stories but at present to me it feels that the pro divorce voices almost outweigh the standers. Standers need support as they go through this difficult time they do especially when they are still standing.
And once again it reads badly. We all need support. But if you have moved on you need different support to those who are standing. We would all get divorce support from our families. It is the standing support we lack.
Or that is lacking across the Internet relative to divorce support.
This maturation of the board is within my expectations. I do not think that most people who begin their journey Standing will continue to Stand.
I don’t offer return statistics because I don’t have then AND because I want to change them.
So suppose that as it is now, 60% of MLC marriages (how I define it) reconcile and 70% of those who come here reconcile. I don’t know—I just pulled those numbers out of… But in a few years my message may have spread and that 60% may rise to 70% and the 70% may rise to 75% and those may continue to go up. That is the goal. As people see reconciliations they may be more likely to remain Standing and to believe in it. We will have more people available to offer support to the growing community. And hopefully having my book published will provide an even bigger boost. Ah dreams.
And think of the reach beyond the forum that the book, website and forum can bring. Can we influence culture? Slowly?
I expect that as we grow we will finally have a big list of reconciliations. But at the same time we will also have a big list of divorces that are complete—no Standing spouse. And we need to accommodate both groups.
Based on what I perceived of the definition—RCR's stated definition—by simply dating, I abandoned my stand.
Yes and this is why I just offered that Soft Stand definition. Couples reconcile after being apart and with other people. To you it is not infidelity. But because I was considering myself still married (and legally I was, but I would have even if divorced), sexual relations with some else would have been infidelity and adultery to me. But I don’t think what you were doing was infidelity at all.
If all he is is a narcissistic jerk, there is no reason to stand, if he is an MLCer who has married his OW, am I supposed to respect that marriage, anyway, even RCR is not sure how she feels.
I know how I feel, but I know when to get off my soapbox because otherwise I’ll start spewing soap bubbles. There are too many facets to that situation.
Some of you here are on your 2nd marriages and you may have been the leaver in your first—even without infidelity. Should you not be welcome?
I know that I consider the person to whom I made my vows to be my lifetime mate—covenant spouse—and that we are not allowed to remarry while either of us is alive. And yet I’ve said that I’m not a strict Covenant Keeper. I was 32 at Bomb Drop. Even today I’m still younger than most of you. I get to be under 40 for 8 more months and 2 days…but who’s counting. I might have waited a long time, but I would have eventually considered dating. I like to be a self-contradiction!
Non standers are coming and posting with no other info than the fact they are divorcing...or waiting to be divorced, and it seems as if the blame lies solely on the spouse. These types of postings are hard for me to read...its seems as if some see divorce as the only answer, but really don’t elaborate on they why of the situation...if we were able to read the reasoning, at least for me...I would be much more open minded and interested in hearing them.
But many here started out like that. We are blameless since we aren’t he one who is cheating. Or we are more blameless. And you know what, maybe we are more blameless, but sometimes just that attitude keeps us resistant to Mirror Work. Let them vent and offer different perspectives. If we isolate ourselves from those who are not interested in Standing, how will we ever get converts?
Live your life like they are not coming back. That doesn't necessarily mean having other relationships. It can mean finding your own identity and independence. We don't need to define our self-worth by being accepted and approved of by others.
I had thought this was a response to someone commenting on the Live your life like they are not coming back statement, saying that it doesn’t make sense. But I can’t find where I saw it and yet I recognized this response.
So I was going to say that I did not really live my life as though Sweetheart was not coming back (actually forward). That is not a requirement. I knew he would be home and so I didn’t paint the living room purple—trust me I wanted to. There were a lot of things I did not do because they would have burned those bridges. Honour’s got the idea. It’s just about living. GAL isn’t something you do to fill up the time. It is living. Moving on is not something you do when you choose to stop Standing, it is about forward motion in live; it is living.
Standing isn’t still.
Okay, there has been a parallel discussion over on the Moderator’s Board—that is often the case with discussion topics. One of the key concerns is that some Standers feel uncomfortable posting and have stopped participating.
Forums have negativity. Sometimes it is negative to some and not others and so it’s not completely avoidable. What seems to be the discomfort is not the divorce support but what some feel is divorce encouragement.
Now that makes sense. I’m not saying I have seen it—I don’t read the threads in detail and so you guys are more familiar. And what some of you may think of as support, others will interpret as encouragement.
I support you as you go through your journeys. Some of you will choose to get divorced and I support you in that decision—though I may not encourage it. But some of you will get divorced without choosing and we are here to support you as you go through that process. What we need to encourage is that you protect yourself. Sometimes choosing an inevitable divorce is something we may encourage. It does not mean we are encouraging divorce, but that we feel it is what you need to do—as a part of your Stand—to protect yourself and your children.
Some people see that as encouraging an immoral act. Some see it as supporting your Stand and your security in inevitable circumstances.
So I am just going to ask that we all be careful and aware. This is a site that is about preventing divorce—amidst going through the process of divorce. So of course there are going to be divorces! If it seems you are encouraging divorce, consider why and explain why so that readers may understand. Maybe the person to whom you are posting knows because you’ve gone over it before, but that person is not the only reader. What does it look like to someone else?
Oh and just a general question… what does RL stand for? I’ve finally figured out that it must not stand for Rhode Island—I think at one time I read the L as a capital I!
-
RL=Real Life ;)
-
Thanks RCR I enjoyed that very much. RL=Real Life= Not what my H has now with OW ::)
-
And think of the reach beyond the forum that the book, website and forum can bring. Can we influence culture? Slowly
Wouldn't this be wonderful!!!!!
-
Great discussion, to me it shows the quality and character of the posters that all opinions are welcome and can be civilly debated.
I'm divorced, was my MLC'r totally at fault - No I don't give myself a pass for the issues I brought into our lives however 2+ years of Monster's abuse, no matter how much support I received or knowledge was gained, was enough to avoid the inevitable that my marriage was bound for divorce.
Have I dated since the separation and now divorce. Yes, combating Monster's perceptions of my shortcomings were the primary driver of meeting new people, generating attraction and physical comfort that is so lacking as I was swept along this journey.
How do I know I'm a Stander? I think in simplest terms that undefinable emotional connection remains to that person, no one else was able to dent that commitment. With that realization it's become easier to be the light and shine in the stand.
-
And think of the reach beyond the forum that the book, website and forum can bring. Can we influence culture? Slowly
Yes, that would be great. If we could get society in general, and, in particular, health professionals, social services, conselours/therapists, and courts to have a knowledge of MLC, maybe many of us would not need to divorce. Mechanisms to the protection and care of the LBS should be available.
In my country he have support available for drugs addicts, alcoholics, people with several disabilities and their families as well as for victims of domestic violence. But there is nothing for a LBS. Nor many people that get what a MLC is or what comes with it.
... that undefinable emotional connection remains to that person, no one else was able to dent that commitment.
I still have that undefinable emotional connection to husband. Don't think it will ever go away. It may no even be supposed to.
Too many years with the same person are not emotionally/spiritually erasable. Nor, i think, should they be.
It does not mean, however, if divorced (or separated) we may not find someone that we love and love us. Just that we will not keep anger/resentment from previous spouse and that, of course, said spouse had an important role in our lives.
-
I want to thank all those for sharing their ideas and views on this thread.
For me, this discussion allows opinion, disagreement, agreement, views and news all of which is useful for me to understand where I am and where I might go in the future. The different posters and their way of thinking is for me, a parallel of the MLC journey. I might not like all I see/hear/read but it gives me food for thought. Some of it I will take on board, some of it I may discard. At a later date I might realise that some which I discarded needs re-evaluating too! Likewise, stuff I agreed/kept in the past sometimes begins to change. Hope this makes sense and the short version of my comment I guess is nothing stays the same :D :D
Sil x
-
In my opinion, any LBS who has been impacted by the devastation that is MLC belongs here.
All of our situations will not end in the same way. To use RCR's refrain to that comment - I would say, well "Duh." ;)
Additionally, there would be no purpose for this forum - as the ending would be known and predisposed.
All of us came here wounded.....All of us need to heal. Come to grips with what has happened to us and to our families.
In my opinion - while this forum is about "Standing" - I don't believe only Standers belong here. In some instances, some proclaimed non-Standers may, with time, find themselves Standing. Just as some of the Standers here - may have chosen to stand down. It is a choice that we all can choose to make. I think sometimes the LBS thinks that he/she has no choice in the matter....but one of the things we learn here is that we do.
I appreciate the posts from Standers and non-Standers alike. And, as with anything I read, I take what I like/need/want and leave the rest.
Hugs to all,
L
-
Hear hear!!!
Love and hugs
Foxy xxx
-
L ~ I totally agree with you. :)
-
RCR.. Thank you for you very insightful reply. That is the very reason I love this site. It feels like a big hug after a long hard day!
-
Thanks RCR for your wisdom and understanding.
Remember..we are all under a tremendous amount of stress...that may make us very sensitive and vulnerable and therefor overly sensitive to people's comments.
I don't mean that we must sugar coat everything we say....Stayed came down on me really heavy 11 months ago and she did it from her heart....I needed that to start picking myself up because I was close to losing not just my marriage, but myself..it was the closest that I have ever been to losing everything and I will always be grateful to her..she could have taken the safe route but she had the courage to push me until I could see something I had to see.
None of us are perfect.....how boring would that be anyway. If it wasn't for MLC, I doubt very much that we would have found friendship with one another..we are that different in so many areas...but for whatever reason we are all here and from this site we find solace.
In some ways, I wish our MLCers would be honest as we are being to communicate when there was a problem. Clearing the air, allowing us each to have our say is healthy.
Thanks so much to RCR, our moderators and all of you for taking the time to read the threads and comment when something strikes you. We are all growing and coming into our own.
Regarding the divorce thing....it is so incredibly painful to have my marriage end this way..there are times I cannot deal with the pain and sadness that this has caused.....BD may have been terrible, but this, this feels so final. And it is scary but like everything else..somehow we survive.
-
Thank you for that response RCR. As one who is being forced into a divorce, I appreciate the welcome!