Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: limitless on November 20, 2012, 05:44:16 PM
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There are many of us who are living this.
Words and phrases like stuck, limbo, same, same, same....but different - all come to mind.
There was quite a bit of discussion on my previous thread about the middle. How it felt to be there. What comes next?
I thought I would start a thread for discussion.
Go at it!
Hugs,
limitless
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Yes,
Difficult, frustrating and demoralizing are words that come to me about being in the middle.
Your mind recognizes some progress, but all you emotionally register is same $h*t different day.
It gets very old. You want to quit.
Or you want to get out of the MLC car and push if necessary! Provoke something.
Something, anything to make it bearable or give you something to work with just a little while longer....
What comes next, I don't know. I'm in the I want to quit part.
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I don’t like the middle. Nothing happens, it takes ages. Like JD said, get out of the car and push it is better than “same, same, same....but different”. I’ve been on this for so long… the beginning, weird and harder it was, was better. Things were happening. Change was visible, even if not “good change”. Now just the same, nothing breaks, nothing gets solved. It is tiring and boring.
What comes next… depends. If the MLCer returns and we want them back, a time of trial, then, from the experiences we’ve read in the board, the marriage/relationship will be much better than before. If they return and we don’t want them back, I guess we will be divorced and starting a new life on our own. If they don’t return… for our sake I hope we’re divorced, finances issues sorted out and that we have managed to heal, forgive and move on.
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That is exactly it...no movement and no change. I wonder sometimes:
-- If my finances were settled would I feel okay with the limbo. I sometimes think I would be but maybe that's an illusion like when I lose 20 lbs then I can start living, or if I had more money then.... etc., etc.
- If our spouses also feel the need to create some movement?
Do we have any return/reconciliation stories from those who were in a middle for several years?
OMJ
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Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein
This quote reminds me of watching my MLCer's quest for "happiness." Nothing he has tried is working (his words), yet he keeps it up. I don't get it.
The middle part is tedious, nothing changes, there is very little cycling or what looks like movement (forward anyway), and feels like it lasts forever. So the fun goes on and on.
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I'm not sure if this is the middle or the end. Or quite possibly the beginning.
My life is no longer entwined with his. I am trying hard to be more than just existing. I "work" hard and fall into a deep sleep at night. I eat and taste food. I enjoy people...and invite people to my home to eat and share their lives.
I choose to travel. I choose to attend activities at the church, to sing, to play golf, to feel alive again.
I no longer analyze his every word or action.....in some ways, he's disappeared off my radar.
I walk through life...sometimes I crawl, I cannot run..I lack the energy and motivation to go anywhere quickly. I am open to seeing pain in the world...I live with a great deal more sadness than I ever did before.
I accept...he's gone. We had a wonderful life together but he is gone. I accept that I cannot expect that love lasts forever. Whatever his crisis is....it is his and I am not a part of it at all...no, not after 39 months apart...I do not play any role at all in his life.
He still does in mine, I miss him, I miss our family but he is truly gone.
I know that for my own sanity, it is best that I understand this. There are far too many variables to make any kind of prediction of what the future could hold for us. In this moment, there is no future for us. He is truly gone.
I yearn for peace. I crave contentment in my day. The tears still come, often when I am driving and I wonder what it is that I cry for now?
I try not to look forward into the future.. I make plans for travel and stuff but cannot see what might unfold in the future. I hope it doesn't stay gray the way it is now. But I realize that the cure that I seek isn't easy to find. I do know that it is only I who can bring the pieces back together again so that I feel whole, on my own, alone.
Alone, I hate that word. I am not comfortable in this place of aloneness..I resent him for allowing this to come to this ...that I am alone and shall be alone and I have always hated being alone. That is my biggest struggle and I have no clue how to change it.
I have survived, it could have been much worse. Perhaps one day I will reflect positively on this experience in life. I know that others feel as I do and that brings some comfort..that I am "normal" in my reaction to all this.
I do understand that this process takes years and years and years....that neither of us are the same people anymore...that the hurt caused will never totally be erased. You learn that to live means that you cannot really choose between the good or the bad...they are both part of living and we really need to embrace both in order to understand the fullness of life.
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XYZCF - Wow, what you said was so profound and has really touched me. I can relate to so much of what you're feeling and I hope I get to where you are....soon.
I think one of the things that keeps me from getting to accepting he's gone is that he lives two doors from me and has not made any movement to divide finances or divorce. Threatens it but doesn't do it.
I tell myself it's because he's undecided but I fear it's because he doesn't want to be the bad guy...and he doesn't have the energy to make a decision to take action. Really, he is gone and although I believe I'm in his thoughts I'm certainly not in his life in any way.
Thank you for posting your thoughts.
OMJ
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Alone, I hate that word. I am not comfortable in this place of aloneness..I resent him for allowing this to come to this ...that I am alone and shall be alone and I have always hated being alone. That is my biggest struggle and I have no clue how to change it.
Dito!
Cant escape it and we have to embrace it. If we run like they do we will end up nowhere. Like they do.
No external solutions to any of our internal problems. For us as for our MLCers.
Thanks XYZCF!
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Just on another note from what xyzcf said about this taking "years and years and years" it reminds me of a man I met at a class for separated and divorced Catholics that I went to right after bomb drop.
Warning!! This is not a happy story so you may not wish to continue reading.T
The group was facilitated by people who were divorced or separated themselves. One facilitator was a 65 year old man who had been separated for 10 years, moved to a province on the other side of the country when he left his wife and still not divorced (also not sure if he left or she told him to leave--different stories.) He spent more time talking about himself than supporting us, kept saying his wife controlled all the money over and over, when asked why he didn't get a divorce he had a different answer every week (none of which had to do with his religious beliefs...it was always blaming the lawyers or something about what his wife did.)
I knew a little bit about MLC at that time and I thought this man is in MLC and is really stuck. He had gone through a drinking phase (overcame it), a spending phase (has no money) and his relationship efforts with women have not been successful. He seemed so broken and it was 10 years later. He did seem to be starting on more of a spiritual journey at the time.
What struck me was he was still blaming his wife 10 years later. He had some insight into his own needs and at that point was only just starting to take interest again in a hobby he had before he left his wife. I found him to be an extremely needy man and I overheard one of the other facilitators mention that he had to spend a lot time listening and supporting this man.
To this day I wonder what his wife's side of the story is and what he is doing now, which would make it almost 13 years after he and his wife separated. He really wanted to be in a relationship with someone but clearly stated that it was definitely not with his wife.
OMJ
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I feel stuck too. Almost 50! months in, still living in the marital home, divorced since February 2010, I have a vanisher. Hardly any contact. Sometimes I ask him a favour and he's still not responding. I do that to see where he is in the process. I am no stander but I feel stuck in my life for a very long time. Sometimes I have a date but I can't seem to find another love in my life. The biggest wish is my family back together but like XYZCF says: he is gone, I have accepted that.
Because of the joined property I am still not free to make a fresh start in a new home. For four years I want a new house, a new job, a new partner and nothing seems to work, it is so frustrating. And then I wonder: is there a bigger plan which I don't see. Do I have to wait and sit tight?
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I joined this forum when it first started some 2.5 years ago, and I titled my first thread "somewhere in the middle.....". I remember thinking back then that well, I'm about 3 years in, I figure I have about 2 more left....
I somehow had the idea that by 5 years surely this would be sorted! And this from me, who was even saying "throw away the calendar" and so on.
I remember at about 6 months in meeting someone whose H had done this and returned after a little over 5 years; I remember then thinking "NO WAY" -- at 2.5 years I started to get it, but I guess I still had some kind of timeline in my head.
What I'm finding now is that this is STILL the middle. My H is now divorcing me; back to high-energy monster after spending a long time not being one. I used to always think that divorce would mean that I had failed, that it really was over.
Now I know that for him, it's just another thing to try to do -- it's clear that he's still floundering and this is another straw to grasp at. It's another phase. (not a pleasant one, I might add...)
As for me, I've found that so much progress is only seen in the rear view mirror. During this time I HAVE established a life, and a good one. The fact that I've chosen not to look for a new partner is only part of that; for me that would create a whole host of complications that I really don't want.
Like xy, I still feel it; I also sometimes wonder why on earth I am crying? But I have learned so much more than ever to live in the moment and to try to deal with things as they arise, rather than trying so hard to anticipate every eventuality.
That metaphor where they say that the MLCer starts out on Wednesday, is away on Thursday and on Friday wonders what on earth happened is so true -- the part where Thursday is unbelievably long.
So this is Thursday. But I'm not standing still, waiting; I have accepted that he will do what he will do, and no longer go along with everything to keep the peace. I'm truly doing what is best for me, no longer thinking about what I should do in case he comes back. That took a long time, btw.
So I'm less placating -- I've also been much more open and honest with my children, teaching them to express how they really feel, teaching that you can love a person but not his or her actions. I tell them that if he gets upset about something they say, let him. He has to deal with it. I encourage them to tell me what they think about my actions as well, btw, and not to be afraid of my reaction.
That rear view mirror has also shown me that I have been constant and consistent overall, again something which only becomes apparent over time. That's now paying dividends with my children and others, even those who earlier on said "oh, just go find someone else" and so on. They are starting to get it.
There really is a lot to say here.... this is the part where we learn to be ourselves, I think.
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Unfortunately I can join my situation to this thread.
But on the other hand I'm glad I'm in the middle. In the beginning I functionned with a lot of hurt and pain, now I learned to live with hurt and pain.
What will be the outcome, I don't know, but for the moment I'm better off than my H.
Most of the time I'm not angry anymore, I still love my H but this person doesn't act like my H.
It's good that Limitless started this topic, it showes how much we all growned and learned how to deal with this Sh..
Hugs
Poussin
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on the other hand I'm glad I'm in the middle
Poussin, I really like this! -- it's both a positive attitude and just generally accepting that this is what life is like right now.
I remember one friend, years ago, when her son was diagnosed with a horrible illness, responding to me asking if she ever thought "why me?" with "why not me?" She took that line that: what made her so special that she was exempt from life's difficulties? At the time I was dumbfounded, now I really see the point.
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XYZCF,
I could copy your entire post here, it made perfect sense to me and reflects exactly where I am right now.
I think we need to spend a bit more time reflecting on just that, where WE are right now and a great deal less on the MLCer.
If this thread is to discuss how we navigate 'the middle' for ourselves I'm on board.
X
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Great stuff here that we can all relate to. I would classify my place as the beginning of the middle. I am 23 mos from BD 1. H returned home for 2 weeks and then left again 6 weeks later on Feb 14, 2011. The pain in the beginning is excrutiating. It has become for me a dull ache that sometimes I can forget is there. Progress, definitely.
The middle is so very frustrating with nothing changing either to the good or bad. I have no reason to push the envelope as H pays for everything here without legal intervention. Why pay lawyers to achieve the same outcome?
I am not sure that I don't want a new relationship at some point, but for now I have my friends and plenty to keep me occupied with. My H seems to be "content" with his life as well although there is no OW that I know of. I feel he is still blaming me and the life we had together for his unhappiness.
I still have my own confusion as to what do I ultimately want. I was asked yesterday at my review at work, where do I see myself in a couple of years. I know they meant at work, and answered in kind, but I hesitated for a moment and thought about my life in general. Where do I see myself in 2 yrs? I honestly can't answer that.
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I am way beyond the middle, as I have been at this for over 6 years. I don’t remember exactly when I no longer felt in limbo but I know that it has been a long time. I think it was like any other stage in my journey. I would revisit that limbo state but only for a short time, and then I’d realize that despite myself, I had learned a thing or two, and I’d realize that I wasn’t stuck at all. I was exactly where I was because of the choices that I had made, and the choices I made were good ones.
I learned the difference between feeling sad, and pining away for something or someone that is out of my control. There are things in my life that I am not particularly fond of, but I accept that I can’t do anything about them. I find joy in my life anyway. There is a sadness that resides in my heart for what has happened to not only myself but my whole family, but there’s plenty of room in there for the love that I feel everyday. I am not stuck in my pain. I accept it, and even embrace it as a part of me, and my history. There is honor, love, commitment, many lessons I have learned, and some beautiful things came out of that pain.
I realized that I wasn’t in limbo when I knew that I had made my choices about how to handle things according to my own values and what I felt in my heart, and not because I was waiting for anything from him.
I don’t think that I could ever feel in limbo again for any length of time. Maybe feeling stuck is when you feel some unrest and your indecisive as to how to make yourself feel better? It’s all a matter of perception I think. Being in the middle implies that you are waiting for the end. The only end is when we pass on. In the meantime, I had better not spend my life wishing for something that may or may not happen. That goes for a lot more than just wishing my xh would get with the program.
When I can envision myself rejecting xh and feel no regrets about giving “us” every chance possible, is when I will know that I am ready for a relationship with someone else. That is a choice for me, and it gives me a great deal of satisfaction that I have given it the time that I have. I am in the driver’s seat; he isn’t.
Perhaps being in the middle is where we learn the most? We learn more about ourselves and learn to not only accept but also embrace everything about ourselves.
Thank you for this discussion. It really caused me to think about where I am now.
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Posted by: GBM
Perhaps being in the middle is where we learn the most? We learn more about ourselves and learn to not only accept but also embrace everything about ourselves.
I think this quote by GBM is pretty profound. I do think the middle is where we learn the most about ourselves. We have pretty much gotten over the shock-and-awe we felt in the beginning and can now take a more honest look at ourselves. The focus has shifted from the world revolving around Insano the Magnificent, a/k/a our MLCer, to us. How cool is that? ;) We get to start thinking about us.
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I used to always think that divorce would mean that I had failed, that it really was over.
Now I know that for him, it's just another thing to try to do -- it's clear that he's still floundering and this is another straw to grasp at. It's another phase. (not a pleasant one, I might add...)
I'm at the beginning of the beginning, but its comforting to see progress in all of you and to know that I will survive! The quote from Trust and Love really gave me some peace. I felt the same way and couldn't understand how divorce could not be the end and now I get it! Thank you! ;)
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I do understand that this process takes years and years and years....that neither of us are the same people anymore...that the hurt caused will never totally be erased. You learn that to live means that you cannot really choose between the good or the bad...they are both part of living and we really need to embrace both in order to understand the fullness of life.
Yes this - how incredibly poignant.
I have no clue where I am. Does his BD1 in Nov 2011 count? Do I count it from Aug 2012 when I got BD2? I don't really know. I find I look to the future and see a life with him around the peripheries but not in it. Maybe that's because it's the way it's been the last 2 years anyway?
I've stopped calling him my H to people because I don't want them to tell him I'm stuck. I saw a friend of his today and he told me how H had told him how incredibly happy he is. His friend said he was "glad he was happy, don't we all deserve that B?" I just smiled and said "sure we do" and walked away feeling sick.
I've learnt to live here and now. I can make some plans but it has been liberating to not worry about the small stuff I used to obsess over, that I thought was so important. So I'm not sure if this is the beginning or the middle. Or to quote Winston Churchill, maybe it's the "end of the beginning" - all I know is that what will be will be.
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I think I'm in the middle... I'm 2 years and 2 months post BD... I don't know, is it the middle? Who knows...
I must say I feel quite comfortable right now. I've made my nest in the middle! ;)
I haven't seen H since July - that was more or less when I started telling him to 'do whatever he felt was right' - and since then, nothing has happened.
I don't really cry that much anymore. I just don't go 'there' at the moment. I've put all that in a little box and locked it away. This way it can't hurt me.
My life is good. I live in our house and H still pays half of the mortgage - he's left me with the car and all the other bills to pay but until now I've managed. I'm proud of that.
I've managed to concentrate on ME. It took me a very long time. I have found some kind of comfort in all this madness. There's structure. I have a lovely circle of friends, I do my yoga, I've found myself again. I have learnt so much already and I'm learning more every day. I feel very blessed right now.
I was at a friends house having tea last night and all of a sudden she looked at me and said: "You are a different person!!!!" And I said "What do you mean?" And she said "Everything. Everything about you compared to 2 years ago is different. Not only the way you look (I've lost 30 lbs and cut and coloured my hair, went from blonde to bordering on black!), everything about you has changed." And then she gave me a great compliment, she said: "You have just taken what life has thrown at you and turned it around, looked at all the mess and said BRING IT ON! That is a great gift to have."
And she's right.. I survived. I never thought I would. I remember those nights, when I cried so hard that I thought I had to throw up.
Today I know how dependent I was on him. And I've learned that my life's happiness cannot depend on someone else.
I am grateful for the experience.
As for H, I truly don't know what he will do next. What I know now though, is that deep down inside, he was and is a good person and I would be blessed to have another chance to spend the rest of my life with him. I have accepted that that is not in my hands though and I will be happy either way.
peony xxx
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Peony, what great comments. I remember too crying until I threw up. I don't think I have come as far as you have, but I have made great strides. It's so wonderful that you shine so much that others can notice.
BRAVO!!!!!
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Maybe I'm at the middle of the beginning, maybe the beginning of the middle, who knows... The pain and shock are gone, my mind seems to have expanded to include limbo as a way of living.
There must be something incredibly zen-master like about the ability to find joy in one breath while not knowing what the next breath will bring. I don't think I've quite got the trick of it yet. But as my mother used to say when I was a kid, "bitter is just another taste". And pain is just another feeling, as valid to have experienced as any other. I get a lot of wisdom and calm from reading what you guys have written here.
As for H, I truly don't know what he will do next. What I know now though, is that deep down inside, he was and is a good person and I would be blessed to have another chance to spend the rest of my life with him. I have accepted that that is not in my hands though and I will be happy either way.
I love this, Peony; am seeking this level of detachment. Right now, I don't think I'd be perfectly happy either way... want my H back... but not H as he is right now (so perhaps I've detached somewhat). He is a good person, but he's battling two snakes: resentment and guilt. He has to defeat both of them, or he'll just show up with the remaining one still dangling around his neck, and I'll have to show him the door. Metaphorically speaking.
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If our spouses also feel the need to create some movement?
I think they need constant movement. At least replayers. They never stop. They are always running, jumping from one thing to another, or from mates to mates, og going places. Maybe this is all just physical movement and it is not the same type of movement we want/need, would like to see…
Do we have any return/reconciliation stories from those who were in a middle for several years?
Good question. I also would like to know. Maybe OP or RCR can answer that…
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I have a friend in RL whose H returned after 5+ years, as I said earlier.... she went through a long "middle". She says she remembers looking at a sign she has in her home that says "nothing is impossible for God", and just asking "when, God?" in despair.... but he did return.
I think again that we hear so few return stories because if and when they do return, the LBS rarely stay on the forums. They then concentrate on RL.
So again, we in the "middle", are a self-selecting group.
This is an excellent, thought-provoking discussion; it has stayed in my mind.
I think the middle is where it starts to really dawn on us that we truly can't "do" anything to make our spouses return. During the earlier part we are concentrating so much on first of all dealing with the shock, then when that calms down a bit we set about seeing what we need to do to work on ourselves, in between trying to understand what the h-e-double toothpicks is going on, then we try out a few ways of 'being' to see what happens (and yes, we try different things to see what kind of response we get from our spouses....) and so on.
In the middle we start to see that this just isn't going to be over quickly, either for them or for us. It's the point where we have lived on our own, or rather without them, for long enough that we've established a life, we waver between liking that life and worrying that we're moving ever further from having a life with them.
It's where we move from marking time to living our lives.
And, like so much of this and actually any major life-changing event, progress is so often only seen in the rear-view mirror.
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After reading all the previous comments, I think I am in the minority here. I am no longer standing and don't want to offend anyone. I am now 3yrs and a bit post BD. I separated and divorced fairly quickly to protect myself financially, with a tiny thought in the back of my mind that even though we are divorced, we could still try again one day if he ever decided to come back. Well, Im not sure when I decided that I was not going to live like that, hoping and praying and waiting for his return. We have very little contact, only what pertains to the kids. We are civil and there has never been any relationship discussion post divorce. Once I started to GAL and realized that I could function and even thrive on my own, my thoughts of him became fewer and fewer. After 3 years, he has become "someone I used to know" and someone I have to text or email with because of the kids. I guess you could say that I am at the end of the middle or the beginning of the end? I do not want to reconcile. If he asked I would say no. I have started to date and I am enjoying it. My life is so very different and better than it was with him, I can't ever see going back to the way it was. I figure that Life is way too short and I have only so much time to cross the things off my bucket list.
I understand why people stand and everyone's relationships are different. Perhaps my marriage just wasn't worth saving. He obviously thought so and perhaps he was right.
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Ember
I'm just jumping in here to say your post is very welcome and in no way offensive. I believe we need to see all angles of this 'process' for and about ourselves. Personally I tired very quickly of the 'fake it til you make it' and 'act as if' tactics. My life has to be lived, not faked or acted.
I am finding it hard to determine which direction I take from this 'middle' point and while I appreciate the 'time' to heal from the hurt, I need to accept it has happened and find a way to move forward or move on.
Thank you for posting, what you wrote may very well be my reality someday and I found it positive to know that life can be enjoyed again. I wish you continued healing and joy in your new life.
X
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In the middle we start to see that this just isn't going to be over quickly, either for them or for us. It's the point where we have lived on our own, or rather without them, for long enough that we've established a life, we waver between liking that life and worrying that we're moving ever further from having a life with them.
It's where we move from marking time to living our lives.
And, like so much of this and actually any major life-changing event, progress is so often only seen in the rear-view mirror.
I agree wholeheartedly with this T&L!
Although I still haven't established a life, I am moving towards that as I plan for my third Christmas and New Year with MLC and the second without h. Just the beginning of the middle, I suppose.
Last night, I had a moment of despairing and crying out to the Lord :'( as your friend of the 5+ years describes, but today I am much more peaceful and still in this for the long run!
I am following this discussion thread avidly :o and learning to live in the now.
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My life is so very different and better than it was with him, I can't ever see going back to the way it was. I figure that Life is way too short and I have only so much time to cross the things off my bucket list.
I understand why people stand and everyone's relationships are different. Perhaps my marriage just wasn't worth saving. He obviously thought so and perhaps he was right.
Thought I would jump in here with my .02
You still need to get to a point where what he does has no effect on you. and you remain in a detached state.
No one here will go back to their marriage the way it was - a new relationship must be formed with anyone.
Whether it is our first marriage or someone new.
I know lots of divorced people that tell me they have great relationships with their ex, even though they have both moved on.
I think that is what we need to strive for that even if right now there is no control over that outcome.
You do have history with this person and no one can take that away.
If you have children then there is all the more reason to get to that spot.
i dont think it means that we pursue, or that we change anything we learn here.
But we are open to forgiveness and healing
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Interesting stuff.
I guess I'm in the middle BD Jan 2010 but monster and strange behaviour going on through 2009. My H is a real clinger ... has had 2 OW and lived here for all 2010 apart from 4 days in January when he left then came back. I kicked him out in Feb 2011, he started coming back in December 2011, and moved in June 2012.
He's just gone again about a week ago says he needs to sort himself out. Each time he has gone to MILs house. He doesn't want to live with anyone else he says, he wants freedom ... but wants me and our 2 D's to accept that he will have an OW. I guess he wants and 'open' marriage. And I don't. So I feel like I'm in the middle of the mess he creates, as he is such a clinger.
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After reading all the previous comments, I think I am in the minority here. I am no longer standing and don't want to offend anyone. I am now 3yrs and a bit post BD. I separated and divorced fairly quickly to protect myself financially, with a tiny thought in the back of my mind that even though we are divorced, we could still try again one day if he ever decided to come back. Well, Im not sure when I decided that I was not going to live like that, hoping and praying and waiting for his return. We have very little contact, only what pertains to the kids. We are civil and there has never been any relationship discussion post divorce. Once I started to GAL and realized that I could function and even thrive on my own, my thoughts of him became fewer and fewer. After 3 years, he has become "someone I used to know" and someone I have to text or email with because of the kids. I guess you could say that I am at the end of the middle or the beginning of the end? I do not want to reconcile. If he asked I would say no. I have started to date and I am enjoying it. My life is so very different and better than it was with him, I can't ever see going back to the way it was. I figure that Life is way too short and I have only so much time to cross the things off my bucket list.
I understand why people stand and everyone's relationships are different. Perhaps my marriage just wasn't worth saving. He obviously thought so and perhaps he was right.
Ember, I wanted to comment on your post, too. I agree with WN has written, I am grateful for your post, don't feel offended at all - quite the opposite!
I think it's important that while we travel this road, we find our OWN truths. For me, that was one of the most difficult things to learn and a lot of hard work - NOT to listen to anyone else's opinion, just follow my own instinct and my own gut. God, how many times did I WISH I could divorce and move on like you have. But I had to be true to myself and learn that that wasn't 'me'. The more time goes by, the longer I 'stand' and stay in our house, the more I get people saying: "It's time to move on, it's been too long, yada yada"... but I CAN'T. It's not that I feel sad about it, or stupid, or stuck... I just - it would be against my deepest beliefs to pack up and move out. Where that little voice in my head (very calmly and quietly telling me to just stay where I am right not) comes from, I don't really know.. I just know it's there!
I still feel a massive connection to H too. I have NO idea why - but it's there.
So, you felt you wanted to protect yourself, you wouldn't want to reconcile - I think that's fair! And I think it's great that you've come to a place where you feel your life is better now than it was before. :)
I think that's what everyone on here wants and deserves... whatever the outcome.
LOVE
peony xxx
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Interesting thing about divorced people saying that they have great r's with their exes, even if they haven't reconciled; yes, I do know some of those, but those have mostly been people for whom divorce was a mutual decision.
I am perfectly cordial with H, but one thing that I've thought lots about is that I don't know if I even want to get to the point of a good r, if that r is all on his terms. I can forgive, absolutely, but as the book says, forgiveness doesn't necessarily mean reconciliation.
So far my H only wants an r on his terms, that is for us to be friendly, but no obligations. So pals, again, only when it suits him. I don't want that; if that's all that's on offer then I don't think there's much there. I think he wants that to show that he's the good guy, that he didn't make a mess, and so on.
If he genuinely shows some caring for me, or really thought about what S needed, perhaps I'd think differently, but for now this is how it is.
No matter what I'm not willing to have a one-sided r, so perhaps really there won't be anything more than being cordial at children's events in the future. I will of course always be a "true" friend, one in need, and so on.
Don't know if I'm expressing myself well here; I'm not trying to say the only r I'd ever be willing to have is marriage (although right now I'm still sort of hovering there...), but pals on his terms only really isn't on.
Perhaps that's also because this is still the middle; none of that is clear yet.
Also, I've pretty much always been of the mindset that "If we could be friends, we could be married." So something to think about.
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Perhaps that's also because this is still the middle; none of that is clear yet.
Interesting and so true.
Poussin
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Oh T&L, I think that you expressed yourself beautifully; perfectly in fact. I feel the same way.
As you may or may not remember, xh and I were dating, and reconnecting on a fairly serious level. That ended because despite his words to the contrary, he wanted to dictate all the terms of the relationship. He tried to bully me, and there is no way that I am going to be bullied. Naturally this “situation” has touched almost every aspect of my life, and the lives of my children. I can’t be myself around him, because at the slightest hint of the past, he thinks I am attacking him. I have thoroughly examined that possibility, and it’s completely untrue. His perception is warped.
Like I said before, 6 years and beyond have been spent with a tremendous amount of turmoil, struggle, devastation, and heartache. Within those hardships I have found strength and growth, and I have many lessons that I would like to share. If we cannot share our respective histories with one another, how can we have a friendship?
His fears and his inability to face himself are preventing him from experiencing the most profound lessons in life, and he could receive the deepest love that he could ever have. He may simply be unable to, and that is very sad. He has his fingers in his ears and saying “la-la-la… I can’t hear you”. What kind of a relationship is that?
I feel the same way, however. If he ever reaches out to me in need, I will always be here for him and treat him with compassion and love.
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Hi, GBM -- thanks for that; I was actually wondering how you were doing and what was going on with you and your H, as you are one who has been in this for a long time as well.
I'm sorry about the bullying; really. It's such a shame, when we are willing to give so much. I know I am, but there really does have to be something back.
If we cannot share our respective histories with one another, how can we have a friendship?
That says it so well. And from it follows what I said earlier: if we can be friends, I mean real friends, then we can be married.
That also requires us to be able to listen to things we might rather not hear about what he'd been doing; I had some of that a few years ago from him when he was opening up a lot. It's not pleasant, but honesty is important, and while we don't need to know everything, some of it is necessary.
Well done for sticking to your values and continuing to be a lighthouse.
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His fears and his inability to face himself are preventing him from experiencing the most profound lessons in life, and he could receive the deepest love that he could ever have. He may simply be unable to, and that is very sad. He has his fingers in his ears and saying “la-la-la… I can’t hear you”. What kind of a relationship is that?
I feel the same way, however. If he ever reaches out to me in need, I will always be here for him and treat him with compassion and love.
THANK you GBM for putting this into words so beautifully. This is my H but I couldn't have expressed it in the same way.
Peony xxx
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Hi all,
Limitless, thanks for starting this thread. It is nice to read other points of views/feelings regarding the middle of this seemingly never ending journey.
I have progressed on many levels, but still struggle in other ways. My timeline matches Musica's the most closely. My BD was 2/16/10, but knew something was awry in 2009. However, my h(x), is a vanisher - more so now than ever. I will say though any time I have contacted him since he left in April 2010, even as recently as a couple mos. ago, he has responded immediately - not sure what this means, if anything. I choose to think of it as a positive sign.
My current feelings/status is I am divorced, but standing even though I know he is out dating and seems to have moved on in his new normal. On one hand, I am taking this time to self reflect and heal on all levels. However, I know I would like to be married again one day whether it is to h(x) or someone else.
I find it challenging sometimes to detach "enough" yet to hold onto a hope of "one day"...think this is what I am struggling with at the moment. The theme seems to be to detach and live your live as if, well if I lived my life as if he was never returning, I would have gotten my annulment with the church soon after the divorce in Aug 2010 and starting dating.
I think if I could severe my feelings from "my h" and hopes of reconciliation and move on it would be the "easier" path to take for the sake of my family and friends. Almost three years later, they still loath him for what he has done and even his own family is still confused. I, on the other hand, am able to speak of him kindly and with the love from our 17 yrs together, which really bothers family and friends.
When I was reflecting this morning on what to write on this thread, I came across this:
Jeremiah 29:11 “For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future”. His word is the light I am holding onto during this long, dark part of the middle of this journey.
Since it is Thanksgiving Day, I want to say I am thankful for all of you who are kind enough to share your thoughts and feelings on this site. It does offer some solace that I am not alone on this journey.
ODAAT
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Quote from: GBM on Today at 05:37:43 AM
His fears and his inability to face himself are preventing him from experiencing the most profound lessons in life, and he could receive the deepest love that he could ever have. He may simply be unable to, and that is very sad. He has his fingers in his ears and saying “la-la-la… I can’t hear you”. What kind of a relationship is that?
I feel the same way, however. If he ever reaches out to me in need, I will always be here for him and treat him with compassion and love.
GBM....this is wonderful! I pray that they will be able to look and face what they need to do in order to grow and that we rememeber, they are still entitled to our love....whether they return or not.
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Hiya, another "middler" here. BD June 2009 !
I definitely think this is the toughest part as we've had so much to deal with, we're tired of MLC, our patience is wearing thin and the emotional vampires keep biting us for more. It's a huge time of " i give up". Maybe that's the point though? We truly are thinking of giving up and our H's can tell and they process more.
they are still entitled to our love....whether they return or not.
Sorry xyzcf, i can't get with the "entitled" part. Worthy maybe, but not entitled. The only thing they are entitled to IMO is their health and happiness. Love is love and cant be switched off, but it fades away like a plant that doesn't get waterred.
SD
x
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Hi everyone, not sure if I am or h is in the middle, I don't know. I do know that I will be ok ish whatever happens but always my answers to any questions with regards to me, my h, our marriage, MLc, is I don't know. X
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It is the same as with you, Trustandlove, I don't a relationship with my husband if it is on his terms. Being it marriage or friendship. They wan't to be close because, like you've said, that way they can be see as the good guy.
I'm with Superdog, xyzcf, don't think they are entitled to our love. Worthy, maybe and even that is up to us.
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Hmmm….there are so many interesting points here. “Entitled” or “worthy? I truthfully don’t know about either one of those. After all this time, it is like a trivial little detail that I can’t be bothered to think about. I just do, and I guess it’s because I vowed to, and come to find out, I really meant it! No one is more surprised than I. He doesn’t necessarily deserve it; as a matter of fact, I am pretty sure that he does not.
It seems as though even the phrase “in the middle” is a matter of perception. I am viewing being “in the middle” as being in a place that is neither “here” nor “there”; sort of wanting to get to some destination that you want to get to, but you aren’t there yet. Maybe you know what the goal is but don’t know how to achieve it, or maybe you don’t even know what the goal is?
To some it seems as though you are looking at a timeline. Although it is somewhat helpful to gather up the statistics and get a general sense of how long all this takes, from my own experience I can tell you that days, months, and years meant absolutely nothing. He has been exhibiting MLC behavior for 12 years! If I had waited around for him to help me get unstuck, then I’d be waiting around forever. I was in the middle many times because I was looking towards him to make up his mind about what he wanted, or I was waiting for him to snap out of it. The impetus for change had to come from within, and nowhere else.
In hindsight, I feel like I was stuck or in the middle, when I knew that I had to change an attitude or perception of how I am going to proceed with my life; particularly where “you know who” was concerned. I was still giving him too much headspace and power. To say that I have agonized over everything is an understatement. I have been very thorough in my worrying, and my suffering. I didn’t come to any sense of peace easily.
I hope that I am making sense to someone other than myself. I know what I mean! I have been in that place many times, but I know that I am no longer there. Even though I still have to deal with my xh in some fashion or another. He never goes away, and he probably never will! Even though I am only about a month from ending a dating relationship with him, and he greatly disappointed me, and he really hurt me, I am not feeling stuck at all. There is no anxiety, and I don’t feel like I have any decisions to make. I don’t always know how to handle him but I know that I will muddle through somehow.
I guess too, that often I was looking for either reconciling or finally getting that elusive “closure”. I have had to accept (kicking, screaming, and crying), that I may never get either one.
Peony2012…thank you so much. I am sure that you could have expressed yourself equally as well, if not better. I just beat you to it! Someday I will learn how to do the quotes, but since I haven’t I have to make do for now. I wanted to address what you said about finding your truth, and sticking to it. I think this is so wonderful, and is crucial for all of us. Good for you! I still feel this connection with my xh too. Sometimes it goes away for a while but it always finds its way; sometimes with intensity that really surprises me. I used to think that I had to fight it, because it hurt me. I don’t fight it anymore, and I accept it as another piece of me.
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I guess too, that often I was looking for either reconciling or finally getting that elusive “closure”. I have had to accept (kicking, screaming, and crying), that I may never get either one.
This resonates, GBM. He isn't there, but he isn't going away either. At this point I'd almost rather he dropped off the face of the earth, as seeing him running around in a supposed new life, trying to make the kids go along with it while actively trying to get rid of as much responsibility as he can is maddening. As is the more or less constant reminder of what was, because I still see that when I see him, and need to constantly remind myself of the reality.
Although less than before, thankfully. And that is just a factor of time.
And yes, GBM, you make sense to me, about not coming to any sense of peace easily. And about the experience of days, months and years meaning absolutely nothing.
I also still love my H, perhaps for the same reasons that you describe. I'm not quite where you are, most likely because the divorce business is only now going on (and only throws up more craziness...); I also know that even when that is 'over' it will never really be over.
RCR says that our goal should be Acceptance -- that seems to be where you are.
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TrustandLove,
Although I hate seeing others have to go through this painful experience, I find comfort in seeing others with similar feelings. Thank you so much for sharing that what I said resonated with you.
You seem to be really close to where I am, but like you said, you are not divorced. Also, I think that I am about a year or so ahead of you, and I had about 3 years worth of MLC craziness prior to this. The divorce, for me, brought about a whole new level of detachment, and I spend days mourning the end of my marriage, BUT within a couple of weeks he started to text me things like “can’t we work this out?” Do you see why I reeeeally needed to take my stance into my own hands? He will jerk me around forever if let him.
We cycle too, and I think it’s because the MLC experience is so different from a “normal” breakup. It is also because those of us here are taking a different route than closing the door to them forever.
The analogy that works best for me at the moment is; my door is closed, but if he knocks on the door respectfully and politely, I will most likely open it and see what he has to say. I will keep him on the other side of the door, and if he gets abusive with me, then I will slam the door in his face! If he comes to me in need, then I will invite him in, grab a box of tissues, and just listen.
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It is also because those of us here are taking a different route than closing the door to them forever.
The analogy that works best for me at the moment is; my door is closed, but if he knocks on the door respectfully and politely, I will most likely open it and see what he has to say. I will keep him on the other side of the door, and if he gets abusive with me, then I will slam the door in his face! If he comes to me in need, then I will invite him in, grab a box of tissues, and just listen.
NICE! :) :) :)
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Yes, in that sense it hasn't been as long for me. My H left very near the beginning of his crisis; really, I had less than a year of MLC-type-stuff before that. The trigger was longer ago, but it didn't all go pear-shaped until really quite soon before he left.
I actually feel a bit like I did in the first years after BD, when I felt gaslighted. I later learned that it WAS because I was being gaslighted, or at least not told the truth to. He was trying to turn it all round on me then, claiming that there never had been an OW, all that. He came clean later and of admitted lots of things that I had suspected, but couldn't prove.
Now it's not about an OW, but about money. Now he wants the divorce, but just wants it over with without having to answer all sorts of questions, from what I can gather.
I don't actually know what is going on; I feel like I've lost my frame of reference. The way I did at BD, (except without that level of pain), when everything that I thought to be true turned out to be upside down. Thank goodness for my kids; at least they are real.
So I go about my life with joy, actual joy, not pretend joy, but there is this air of "surrealness" -- is that a word? -- pervading through everything. I'm not sure at all what is real; my H isn't a clinger; I'm not at all sure what he wants from me, althought he does somehow seem to want me to go along with his programme.... but what is that?
I do so see why you need to take your stance into your own hands, absolutely.
I need to go; will write more later...
Oh, and I love your door analogy!
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It is also because those of us here are taking a different route than closing the door to them forever.
And that is causing, I think, a lot of pain to many of us... If only we would manage to close the door for good...
The analogy that works best for me at the moment is; my door is closed, but if he knocks on the door respectfully and politely, I will most likely open it and see what he has to say. I will keep him on the other side of the door, and if he gets abusive with me, then I will slam the door in his face! If he comes to me in need, then I will invite him in, grab a box of tissues, and just listen.
The first part will go for me, the second, in need, he will be sent to SIL. And I will handle him the divorce papers to sign. Bu problem with in the middle is the lack of divorce/sort out financila matters. 6+years since he eft and he still does not sign the divorce?... Phew...
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Great thread.
The beginning, the middle, doesnt seem to matter to me anymore. It use to, I use to wonder where HE was only to realize that the only place that really mattered was where I was.
Where I am is facing my demons, conquering them one at a time and realizing for the first time in my life that Im a good person, and Im going to be OK.
FH
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And that is causing, I think, a lot of pain to many of us... If only we would manage to close the door for good...
I agree. There is something stopping us from closing that door utterly and locking it. What it is I couldn't say.
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I had another thought about the "middle" -- that it's when we stop looking at everything we read and thinking how it applies to our MLCer, and start thinking how it applies to ourselves.
I don't mean the articles, or things specifically about MLC, but other things. The bits of philosophy that we pick up, the words of wisdom about growing up, and so on. The things where we say -- 'if only H (or W, depending on the case) would read this and understand this...'
For example, I read a good quote yesterday, in a book on the global financial crisis, of all things. (Micheal Lewis' "Boomerang", since you ask...) -- it was "the smart person accepts, the idiot insists". It was in the office of an official in Greece, apparently. He also said that it was what people who were doing wrong did, insist that they were right.
Of course, it's so easy for our first thoughts to be: "Exactly! This is what my MLCer is doing! This is what he/she needs to see!"
But in this middle part, as we progress through it, we may still think that, but we now look more at ourselves, and think, yes, we need to accept, we can't go about ignoring reality, and so on.
I hope I'm making sense here; one thing I've noticed is that my ability to express myself clearly is still not good; one of the casualties of this crisis, at least for now, I'm afraid.
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T&L...i do understand what you are saying here..and i have also found the 'middle' to be a different phase/stage. There is no doubt that we have to make our own changes, find our own way on this journey forced upon us. My H left in Jan/Feb 2010, it had been building up, and was a 2nd fleeing and a 2nd OW. He ended up living with her sometime in 2011. He has been a sort of off and on vanisher type overall. I have seen so many different versions of him, of me, of us and when we have met up it is the strangest, most heartbreaking situation to not be us. I have seen him reach out, then go back in the tunnel...this time last year he said it was long term with OW, that the grass isn't greener etc etc..he told my cousin he 'f&*d up' He told me he's messed up...i try and say that it can be unmessed...It is too surreal. I guess overall it's every 2 to 3 months i hear from him.
So much has happened and yet the process has to be what it has to be. Reading what you said from the book you are reading about the 'smart person accepts, the idiot insists'...for some reason this really hit home this time round..I do tend to now read things with me in mind whereas once upon a time i would want my H to read this or read that, to see what i saw..but i realise he wasn't awake or ready to hear anything i had to say. Particularly in the early stages..However i believe the odd seed and nut have been scattered for him to find...:)
It has become clearer over time how so very important it is to get strong again by focusing on us, to take the focus off them ... that has been a major turning point for me. Maybe i was scared that if i stopped thinking about him, stopped that connection, that somehow that would mean i had lost hope. I don't think that's the case. It is different now, my fog is lifting as well and i can still have hope. I do still think about him a lot, but it's different and i handle it a lot better. At this moment i remain steadfast in my instincts of what i believe could be. However, i do have to be careful i don't just live in my head and that my inner strength grows. So many layers to this.
After BD i completely shut down, i went inwards, PTSD..it has really only been the last few months i have felt some true strength return. Though looking back, I did have the determination to go dim to no contact while OW is in the picture..had to to keep sane (of sorts!) It is him who contacts when he wants to meet up, and each time i struggle with the 'right' thing to do!..and as much as i want to see him...it's very hard.
He seems to have compartmentalised his life..has kept a relationship with our boys (23 and nearly 21) though much more limited and of course this has had hurt and affected them.
I have so many thoughts about this stage and will add some more another time. My confidence has taken such a whack..slowly getting better, and that definitely affected articulating my thoughts etc..i've noticed that though i want to upskill more in my work situation, the thought of 'stress' and more stress to get back on board with more demanding work, stops me from applying myself. My challenge at the moment.
there has been an interesting possible turn of events...and i know now NOT to have any expectations...but..last week my son came home in the evening having just been dropped off by his dad. He doesn't like to tell me beforehand if they're meeting up for a meal as in the past it has stirred up feelings for me and we both can find it difficult, though overall better at talking about things when we pick the right moment :) anyway...he said i would be pleased to hear that H was moving out from OW and down to his own small room in the town we used to live in.
I couldn't help myself but a huge smile must have appeared on my face but .. no expectations...i must admit, my first thought was about Christmas and how amazing it would be to be together for the day.
So the journey continues, the twists and turns and stages...more to come i'm sure!
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AnneJ,
I have also felt many times that not being able to close the door for good might be causing more pain. Some people can do that with an amazing amount of clarity that that is what they need to do. I am not one of those people…*sigh*…even when I thought that it was what I needed to do, I felt like I was being forced, and it made me feel worse. I needed to find another way. I NEEDED to honor my values and regain my power more than I needed to get my marriage back. Closing the door on him before I was ready would not have accomplished that. Believe me, I tried. This is what many of us here are trying to accomplish; finding our way to healing, and yet keeping hope alive for our marriage because it is so important to us. I am so thankful for the discussions here that provide us with insights that help us in whatever road we choose. Individually we have to decide what is going to cause us the least amount of pain, for the long haul.
There are many books and articles, and forums, and people IRL that tell you that you have to close the door and move on, and get over it. I know for me, it created a lot more anxiety and heartache to try to conform to that mentality. Perhaps I was not so clear in trying to describe that discovering what “standing” means to me, showed me a path that has taught me many things, that will provide me with strength and comfort for the rest of my life. Getting out of the mentality of being stuck in the middle is recognizing that even though we may not have everything that what we want out of life, we are living in our truth, and you just can’t do any better than that; there is nothing to get “unstuck” from. We are “there”….aaaahhh; a little bit of comfort there for you whenever you need it, and you don’t need anybody else to provide it for you.
T&L, and HeyJude, I also feel as though I don’t articulate my thoughts as well as I used to. After xh left, I know that I had PTSD. I had trouble completing my thoughts, and I developed a stutter that I had never had before. All of the emotions involved with the severing of the relationship were bad enough but I think what practically put me into a coma was my fear of my basic survival. He left me destitute. There are indeed so many layers to this.
Trustandlove, HeyJude, and FindingHHope; everything you are saying resonates with me completely. T&L, what an excellent observation that was; it is true for me as well. I think that we are living proof that there is a way to keep the door ajar if that is what we want, and be able to thrive.
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But in this middle part, as we progress through it, we may still think that, but we now look more at ourselves, and think, yes, we need to accept, we can't go about ignoring reality
T&L,
This is my middle! It starts with acceptance and then moves me on to wherever I am meant to be or to be going, as this is a life long journey.
HeyJude,
Your whole post resonated with me. I agree with you and GBM, the PTSD feelings were/are hard to function under but we are getting there and life with all it's normal challenges, stresses and layers can be lived again. Its a daily effort for me but each day has its rewards, whether that be at work or at home with Ds or with extended family and friends. There is a large chunk missing but I believe time and my personal growth will fill that gap again.
X
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I seem to fall into this category, though I could have sworn years ago my H was showing signs of coming out. He physically left the home 19 months ago. I see him regularly and he is no longer monster. He really hasn't been monster for about six months. He is cordial and polite, but finds ways to remind me that April will bring about the permanent separation, he has yet to use the word divorce...which I find interesting.
Though he is cordial, most of our interaction is via email and texts. He is often cryptic in his comments and doesn't always make sense.
I still miss him deeply, but not the person he is now. I miss the person who is in photos and videos. I don't know if that person will ever return.
As for me, I have a very full life. I am very involved in my work and keeping things as normal as possible. My kids seem to be doing okay, though they clearly wish their family was happy and whole again. Don't we all!
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even though we may not have everything that what we want out of life, we are living in our truth, and you just can’t do any better than that; there is nothing to get “unstuck” from.
I was talking to DGU last night, about the difference between "acceptance" and "detachment". I never did the detachment bit very well at all...but I am definitely getting better at the acceptance part and that has brought me peace and contentment in my life.
Thus I too love this:
'smart person accepts, the edit insists'...
After the formal legal separation, that actually pushed me into starting to "accept" that I truly am living alone. He is not a part of my day to day life anymore...and only I can find things that excite me and bring back the passion I used to have for living. Too much time has passed where life was so dreary and painful....please God may I NEVER go back to that place again.
As with all of you the symptoms of PTSD also affected me but I think we can get beyond that as we mature and explore the reality of life without a spouse.
I think that an objective that I have now is what have I learned that might help a newbie to heal quicker? I don't think there is really an answer..our bodies actually are the ones that need to figure that out and it will be different for each person based upon our own life experiences.
I am not feeling stuck these days. There are things I must face up to in life. As has been stated, life continues and we should not stop living because one person in our life is gone.
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Still, it is so nice to "see" you again! OK, not nice that you are still in this, but I hope you know what I mean.
As you may remember, I, too, have thought that my H has shown signs of coming out at various points along the way, particularly at the 2.5 year mark. And again at the 3.5 year mark.... I didn't have monster for a very long time, now I'm getting it again, along with legal action.
Like you say, very cordial, but little communication outside administrative texts. Kids very OK on the one hand, but not at all OK with what he is doing.
I'm sure that what I had at the beginning could be called PSTD -- I was such a wreck it was unbelievable.
But what I do like is the fact that I can now look back on these years and see what I have accomplished despite that -- and it's a lot. I do love that rear view mirror.
As for detachment? Well, I'm probably not that good at it either, but I'm definitely getting better and better at acceptance. I can speak truths to my H calmly, but I still miss him, and still find myself fighting the urge to just take his hand or something when I do see him, which is several times a week, if only for a short while. But like Still says, I miss the person he was, not the one he is right now.
Will the "middle" be over with when he finalises the divorce? Who knows? I guess I'll find out when I get there.
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Still, it is so nice to "see" you again! OK, not nice that you are still in this, but I hope you know what I mean.
Will the "middle" be over with when he finalises the divorce? Who knows? I guess I'll find out when I get there.
Hi Still!!!
T&L,
I wonder...
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GBM, I think you’ve found a perfect combination between moving forward and leaving the door open. You’re divorce so, harder it may be, you’re free of all the legal issues.
I manage to close the door in every situation so this is a first for me. Exactly, even when we think it is what we need to do, we feel like it is forced. I do not know the reason for it to be so, but it is.
Agree with you, whatever we do, we must to on our own time. Not on other people’s time, not even on the MLCer time. We’re the ones who decide when to close the door, even if not for good, when to re-open it, and so on.
In the long, long haul, as in 20 or 30 years, probably what would cause more pain/hurt would be close the door for good. But we can close the door for a while. We’re allowed to have out moment (even if it means years) of privacy and time away from our MLCer.
Never tried to read those books. Just decide to let time do what needed to be done. I keep seeing people that had a 2 years relationship (or marriage) being devastated and, 4 years down the line they still hurt. Well, it strike me that, 20 or more years and a marriage cut into pieces the way ours were, require far more time and a different way of dealing with the issue. Even because many of us remain married for many years to the MLCer. A LBS from a MLC situation cannot be compared to relationships/marriages that end normally.
Yes we are there, nothing to get “unstuck” from. Yes, living our truth is important and we can’t do better than that. In contrast our MLCer are not living their truth. Mine wrote several times to OW2 that he needed to put is values (his truth, his beliefs) aside, to be able to do “this” (get involved with her and leave).
Will the "middle" be over with when he finalises the divorce? Who knows? I guess I'll find out when I get there.
Maybe... it will leave you free of any legal issue and the finance will be sorted out. That "middle" will be over. The other "middle"... one not? :)
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Hi Ladies,
It is so good to see you, my friends. I take long breaks from the forum, as it is what I need. I was directed back to this thread by XYZ today. I am glad that I came. It is good to know we are not alone, but not fun to realize that we are still among so many who are dealing with the craziness.
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Still, I am delighted to see you poke your head in here. You were a model of grace and civility for me in the beginning. I based a lot of my responses on how you dealt with your H.
The thing that weighs heaviest on my mind, is that this could truly go on for the rest of my life if I allow it. All thru my M I kept waiting for H to realize this or that and change his behavior. He never changed anything and I think I am deluding myself into thinking anything will change now. But, then again, I don't want to close the door permanently if things could work out. *Insert piercing scream here*. I feel better now. ;D
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Well I'm six weeks away from the two year anniversary of BD. It feels like it's just the end of the beginning for me. Yet there is a "middleness"" feeling about it, too.
I don't think my "middle" will last long, at any rate. My H tells me he will file in January and, since it will also be the second anniversary of our official separation and all our financial issues have already been worked out, his divorce will be granted within a few months.
He's also adamant that he and OW will marry as soon as he's free.
Since he and OW have been an item now going on four years, and living together for the last two, I think the likelihood of a divorce is high.
If my H does marry OW then my stand will be over. My learning and growing from the experience won't be over, but the commitment to my marriage will be.
A short "middle" indeed!
I had lunch with an old friend, a former work colleague, yesterday. I told him something that, after I said it, really surprised me. I told him that, if I was magically given the choice to return to my life pre-BD and have it back but, in doing so I would have to forfeit what I've learned in the last two years about myself, my marriage, my H etc I don't think I'd make the choice to go back.
When the words came out of my mouth I was amazed. I didn't realized I felt that way! But I guess I do, or a part of me does.
But there's no going back. Only forward.
I'm grateful for what I've learned. Sad for what I lost. Sadder but wiser pretty much sums up where I am.
Yet I'm hanging on to the hope my new life is going to a better one because of what I've gained in self-knowledge and, yes, even wisdom from this journey.
TMHP
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Still, I am delighted to see you poke your head in here. You were a model of grace and civility for me in the beginning. I based a lot of my responses on how you dealt with your H.
LearningIamok,
That was very sweet. The truth of the matter is that our spouses may never become vulnerable enough to look inside. For me, hope and prayer are my two constants. I just keep thinking that God would not allow us to endure a situation that he won't use to make something beautiful in the end. He will not interfere with free will and that is the unknown variable. If our spouses do not look within themselves to see the parts that they would despise in others, they will never come to that place to fully heal. Some will always run. That may be my h. Only time will tell.
Quite honestly, at this stage of the situation, no one can really know how they will feel.
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I am honestly relieved to be in the middle, now more than one year post BD.
I remember the raw agonizing pain of the beginning (insomnia, weight loss, panic...)
Then the tears of the months that followed (this can't be true....)and the emotions I felt when I saw him.
Then gradually crawling to my feet.....by 8 months post bomb drop my life was starting to structure itself (new job, new life)
Now when I see him I recognize that the problem is with him...he is bitter and angry, and I am happy with my job and my new life.
There are longer periods of silence....and I am okay with that. Honestly I feel like he has made a shambles of his life.
I feel blessed in many ways, wonderful job, great friends, although his leaving has ruined me financially.
Still there are moments of intense loneliness, mostly in the middle of the night.
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I too look at H and he doesn't really look happy. Maybe that's just becuase I am there at that moment.
He is still trying to control or bully me and I need to learn to detach and not take everything personally.
I feel he is in the belly of the tunnel. I have no idea if he'll ever come out. I think he is afraid to. He AVOIDS ANYTHING that may remind him of what he has done or may wake him up to it. It's really that obvious.
I feel I am going through a new grief process of realising that my marriage was never what a marriage is intended to be and that H is just not a man of integrity and never was with me. It hurts so much to know that this was all a facade but I can't completely walk away because of the children and the reality is he will always be their dad.
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Stillpraying and onwardandupward,
you spoke from my heart.. thank you!!
He is still trying to control or bully me and I need to learn to detach and not take everything personally.
I feel he is in the belly of the tunnel. I have no idea if he'll ever come out. I think he is afraid to. He AVOIDS ANYTHING that may remind him of what he has done or may wake him up to it. It's really that obvious.
I feel I am going through a new grief process of realising that my marriage was never what a marriage is intended to be and that H is just not a man of integrity and never was with me. It hurts so much to know that this was all a facade but I can't completely walk away because of the children and the reality is he will always be their dad.
This is SO true for me too. Stillpraying, the only difference is, I am WONDERING if H is not a man or integrity and MAYBE my marriage was never what it was intended to be. I'm struggling with this one right now purely because I can't see how someone can wear a mask for 10 years - also, I just can't see how my instincts could have been so wrong.. was I blinded? Maybe I wanted to see something that just wasn't there? It's hard work trying to figure that one out. These days, I haven't seen loving, funny and happy H for so long that it seems like a shadow... He's a shadow of his former self.
LOVE
peony XXX
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I feel I am going through a new grief process of realising that my marriage was never what a marriage is intended to be and that H is just not a man of integrity and never was with me. It hurts so much to know that this was all a facade but I can't completely walk away because of the children and the reality is he will always be their dad.
Amen.
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I'm feeling like Stillpraying and Peony too. It's now nearly 27 months since BD and I'm finding it harder rather than easier. I too feel like maybe I just imagined the relationship I thought we had.
I heard him on the phone to OW in the office just now. He says everything as quietly and in as opaque terms as possible (presumably to try and disguise who he is talking to) but it is so hard. As you say, can he really have worn a mask for sixteen years and now I'm seeing the real person, or is this definitely the fake? Whichever way it is, it certainly doesn't look like the mask will fall any time soon - if ever.
C
xx
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Chys: Everyone tells me- they weren't wearing a mask at the time- but now they have changed and he is not the same man. My h told me before he left, he was a different man than the one I fell in love with. But, he also said, he liked who he was now and I didn't love who he was, so he didn't love me anymore and left...and will never return. End of story.
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Chys: Everyone tells me- they weren't wearing a mask at the time- but now they have changed and he is not the same man. My h told me before he left, he was a different man than the one I fell in love with. But, he also said, he liked who he was now and I didn't love who he was, so he didn't love me anymore and left...and will never return. End of story.
I heard something similar. When I said to her "This is not who you are.", she replied "Yes, it is. This is the real me. Always was." and her actions since that date have never been any different. That was three years ago. No healthy individual can wear a mask for all those years, but they did. The logical conclusion from this is that they were not healthy. I can't argue with that conclusion.
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Great topic! Stillpraying, I feel you hit the nail on the head. The rose coloured glasses fall off and it's not a pretty sight. I think MLC definately plays a big role in Hbehavior, but the traits were there already. In MLC they were magnified a thousand times. Not possible anymore to sweep the big elephant in the room under the carpet....
Yes, I'm a middle school student as well. When I think about the middle, I feel that it is somewhere in the middle of the path and transition from "WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED???" to feeling comfortable in the new "normal".
BD February 2009, returned shellshocked to my home country with three big bags and two little girls (1 & 5 years old) in tow. It's 45 months later now. I survived the drama, rebuild my life. But where I invested my love, I invested my life. The return on my investment is not impressive. H seems to feel comfortable and secure in his new life. He is not acting bat$hit crazy anymore. He realizes he was. His words "I don't know where I have been, it feels like I was on another planet". How MLC Script is that?? But he has no second thoughts and is enjoying his bachelor life.
I'm wondering about the rest of my "later". I never ever pictured myself in my fourties as a single woman, leave alone as a single mum. How will I shape my future? I guess this is the the next goal: to be a good student on the advanced college of Dragonfly!
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I've been reading this thread and following it closely. I suppose I am in the middle of this mess as well.........just past year 3 of BD. So many others have already posted some very true and well put thoughts of their own in regards to this "middle" stage. I can relate and truly "feel" almost all of them. I can now say thank goodness I am past the beginning........all the hurt and pain and just utter shock of it all........so sorry for any and all the newbies! So, where to go from here? I feel the worst is truly behind me...........or is it?
I relate to dragonfly as my exH now seems very content and "happy" with his new single life......but is he really? I have no true way of knowing. I will say my gut feeling is telling me no....he is not really happy......he hasn't figured it all out enough yet. My exH also seems to be more "normal" now.....but that's just a guess from the few contacts/communication moments I've had with him. So, it really is hard to say.
I don't really feel "stuck" but I do seem to be at a point of trying to figure out what next....but most days are just typical going through the motion days........one day at a time.......but isn't that how we live life anyway? Sure, before this happened we had a spouse to share our thoughts, hopes and dreams of the future with.........now......it is all on us.........at least until that day when a miracle happens.
I'm still hoping and praying. I just want the nightmare to be over!
Thanks for starting this Limitless. It's good to read and share thoughts on this side of the spectrum.
(((HUGS)))
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To all,
Thanks for the comments on this thread. I think what happens (to most of us), once the shock of the beginning is over and we begin to stop analyzing every move (or twitch) the MLCer will make....we stop posting....as there is "nothing new" going on in our sitch.
I guess it's because there is just too much time devoted to the MLCer (I am a guilty party.....so I am familiar with this).
Whoever wrote that they missed the beginning (oh...my....the beginning was just so rough. I felt guilt. I felt pain. I was lost. I was a mess... I DO NOT miss the beginning at all) - I hope that I don't reach a stage where I miss the begining because "something was happening" at the beginning - as opposed to the middle where nothing much really happens. But, who knows...I may be there someday....
Dragonfly - good to see you post! I remember meeting you back in April of 2011. You were already almost at 2 years post BD. You had moved forward in your life. You were strong. You were confident. I'm glad to see you post, as so many on this site do not know your story....nor what you've been through...and what you have been able to do. You have so much to share. So much strength to share.
As far as the MLCer being "happy" with their new life...I see MLC man at work. He is anything BUT happy. He's made such a mess and really doesn't know what to do. His ex-wife has moved on. His latest relationship finally ended...and he is frantically trying to find a replacement. Unfortunately, he will not find what he is looking for. Happiness comes from within. Anyone who continues to look for happiness outside of themself...will be destined never to find it.
Don't be fooled. These people (regardless of their "mask") - are not happy. They are not enjoying the new life they've chosen. But, this is what they chose. They need to ride it through.
As far as what the middle feels like? It feels like my marriage is over...and was over long before I ever knew. It feels like my H is gone. Gone forever. It feels like I need to find myself a new life. And you know what? I'm thinking that this is how the middle would feel. This is how it would feel.
MLC takes time. More time than you can even imagine. More than I even imagined. It shouldn't surprise us (or disappoint us) that our spouses are still deep in the tunnel after 2-3 years. Yet, we are disappointed. I am disappointed. Expectations....they can kick you in the (you know what) - if you keep on expecting.
I think it feels like this...because it is meant to feel like this. Believe it or not, it helps me to detach and let go......when I realize (accept) that nothing is going to change any time soon.
Please keep posting your thoughts.
Many hugs to all,
limitless
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I hope that I don't reach a stage where I miss the begining because "something was happening" at the beginning - as opposed to the middle where nothing much really happens.
I confess I’m at that point. It is weird, I know, but it is a fact that, in the beginning, something was happening. The middle of the crisis has been lasting for so long that little seems to happen. Apart from my husband’s more and more insane clubbing
They being in the tunnel for years and years is disappoint and frustrating but it can also be quite funny. :) And tiring.
No, they are not happy. Happy is the last thing they are no matter how they try to pretend otherwise.
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OK, just one of my "middle" frustrations....
The continuing half-truths, for lack of a better word. I know it all points to him not being at peace, still in it, and so on, but it's so tiring.
Things such as telling our D that he won't be able to be here on a particular day because he'll be abroad with work (doing something that easily could be done at another time...), and then, oh, just btw, he's going to a concert there that night.
It's so silly. Yes, it could be that he really does have to be there for work, and that it was such a coincidence that this band is playing just there that night, but in truth, he probably worked it the other way round. He wanted to see the band (nothing wrong with that per se), and said he'd do the work stuff that day... and oh, it just happens to be the day that he's generally here to drive the kids around.
No outright lies, just the bleep-bleeping around. It's the casualness of it, the something of it. One of those things that is hard to pinpoint, which is also maddening. Because each part of it on it's own isn't something that can be called bad per se, it's just the overall total self-absorption of it.
I guess he doesn't tell them because they can relate to "I have to work", but "I want to go to see a band" sounds selfish. So he knows that it isn't exactly right, but still falls down on the side of what suits him.... and finds a way to justify it. Grrr.
I know this is MLC, and that is normal for MLC, but one thing about this middle is that it's just so tiring. This kind of stuff reminds us that this IS the middle, that they aren't anywhere near through, and that right now there really doesn't seem any way through.
It's like "oh, Bleep, is this STILL happening??"
Not that it affects our daily life much; I sort the kids anyway, but I also hate the example that it sets.
Grrr
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No outright lies, just the bleep-bleeping around. It's the casualness of it, the something of it. One of those things that is hard to pinpoint, which is also maddening. Because each part of it on it's own isn't something that can be called bad per se, it's just the overall total self-absorption of it.
Not that it affects our daily life much; I sort the kids anyway, but I also hate the example that it sets.
Grrr
Yes, I hate the 'mature' tone and casual way he dismisses me and my requests for the kids. He tries so hard to act like he has it all in control. It IS maddening!!!
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I think it is also the constant reminder that the kids (and I, of course), aren't anything special, just something to be fitted into his schedule.
And the twisting -- way back when, in the first years after BD, when I might still have 'called' him on something like this, he'd respond by saying that "well, you didn't let me do my own things, that's why I left and am doing them now" -- turning it around to try to make it my fault, that I'm too controlling, and so on....
Of course, in a 'normal' situation it would be perfectly normal for any H to want to go see a band one weekend, generally a normal H would recognise that this involves some inconvenience for the rest of the family and at least tries to compensate in some way. So it's a double-twist -- he's first of all not behaving normally at all, and then on top of that berates the LBS for not going along with it.
It's just the frustration. I guess it's also frustrating that it can still bother me, that I still on some level might think that there is something I should be doing. There isn't; it's all been done, this is just what it is.
yuck.