[GBM]

Hmmm….there are so many interesting points here. “Entitled” or “worthy?  I truthfully don’t know about either one of those.  After all this time, it is like a trivial little detail that I can’t be bothered to think about.  I just do, and I guess it’s because I vowed to, and come to find out, I really meant it! No one is more surprised than I. He doesn’t necessarily deserve it; as a matter of fact, I am pretty sure that he does not.

 It seems as though even the phrase “in the middle” is a matter of perception.  I am viewing being “in the middle” as being in a place that is neither “here” nor “there”; sort of wanting to get to some destination that you want to get to, but you aren’t there yet.  Maybe you know what the goal is but don’t know how to achieve it, or maybe you don’t even know what the goal is?

 To some it seems as though you are looking at a timeline. Although it is somewhat helpful to gather up the statistics and get a general sense of how long all this takes, from my own experience I can tell you that days, months, and years meant absolutely nothing.  He has been exhibiting MLC behavior for 12 years! If I had waited around for him to help me get unstuck, then I’d be waiting around forever.  I was in the middle many times because I was looking towards him to make up his mind about what he wanted, or I was waiting for him to snap out of it.  The impetus for change had to come from within, and nowhere else.   

In hindsight, I feel like I was stuck or in the middle, when I knew that I had to change an attitude or perception of how I am going to proceed with my life; particularly where “you know who” was concerned.  I was still giving him too much headspace and power.  To say that I have agonized over everything is an understatement.   I have been very thorough in my worrying, and my suffering.  I didn’t come to any sense of peace easily.

I hope that I am making sense to someone other than myself.  I know what I mean!  I have been in that place many times, but I know that I am no longer there.  Even though I still have to deal with my xh in some fashion or another.  He never goes away, and he probably never will!  Even though I am only about a month from ending a dating relationship with him, and he greatly disappointed me, and he really hurt me, I am not feeling stuck at all.  There is no anxiety, and I don’t feel like I have any decisions to make.  I don’t always know how to handle him but I know that I will muddle through somehow. 

I guess too, that often I was looking for either reconciling or finally getting that elusive “closure”.  I have had to accept  (kicking, screaming, and crying), that I may never get either one. 

Peony2012…thank you so much.  I am sure that you could have expressed yourself equally as well, if not better. I just beat you to it! Someday I will learn how to do the quotes, but since I haven’t I have to make do for now.  I wanted to address what you said about finding your truth, and sticking to it.  I think this is so wonderful, and is crucial for all of us.  Good for you!  I still feel this connection with my xh too.  Sometimes it goes away for a while but it always finds its way; sometimes with intensity that really surprises me.  I used to think that I had to fight it, because it hurt me.  I don’t fight it anymore, and I accept it as another piece of me.   

[Trustandlove]

  I guess too, that often I was looking for either reconciling or finally getting that elusive “closure”.  I have had to accept  (kicking, screaming, and crying), that I may never get either one. 
 

This resonates, GBM.  He isn't there, but he isn't going away either.  At this point I'd almost rather he dropped off the face of the earth, as seeing him running around in a supposed new life, trying to make the kids go along with it while actively trying to get rid of as much responsibility as he can is maddening.  As is the more or less constant reminder of what was, because I still see that when I see him, and need to constantly remind myself of the reality. 

Although less than before, thankfully.  And that is just a factor of time. 

And yes, GBM, you make sense to me, about not coming to any sense of peace easily.  And about the experience of days, months and years meaning absolutely nothing. 

I also still love my H, perhaps for the same reasons that you describe.  I'm not quite where you are, most likely because the divorce business is only now going on (and only throws up more craziness...); I also know that even when that is 'over' it will never really be over. 

RCR says that our goal should be Acceptance -- that seems to be where you are. 

[GBM]

TrustandLove,

Although I hate seeing others have to go through this painful experience, I find comfort in seeing others with similar feelings.  Thank you so much for sharing that what I said resonated with you. 

You seem to be really close to where I am, but like you said, you are not divorced.  Also, I think that I am about a year or so ahead of you, and I had about 3 years worth of MLC craziness prior to this.  The divorce, for me, brought about a whole new level of detachment, and I spend days mourning the end of my marriage,  BUT within a couple of weeks he started to text me things like “can’t we work this out?”  Do you see why I reeeeally needed to take my stance into my own hands?  He will jerk me around forever if let him.

We cycle too, and I think it’s because the MLC experience is so different from a “normal” breakup.  It is also because those of us here are taking a different route than closing the door to them forever. 

The analogy that works best for me at the moment is; my door is closed, but if he knocks on the door respectfully and politely, I will most likely open it and see what he has to say.  I will keep him on the other side of the door, and if he gets abusive with me, then I will slam the door in his face!  If he comes to me in need, then I will invite him in, grab a box of tissues, and just listen. 

[OldPilot]

It is also because those of us here are taking a different route than closing the door to them forever. 

The analogy that works best for me at the moment is; my door is closed, but if he knocks on the door respectfully and politely, I will most likely open it and see what he has to say.  I will keep him on the other side of the door, and if he gets abusive with me, then I will slam the door in his face!  If he comes to me in need, then I will invite him in, grab a box of tissues, and just listen.

NICE!

[Trustandlove]

Yes, in that sense it hasn't been as long for me.  My H left very near the beginning of his crisis; really, I had less than a year of MLC-type-stuff before that.  The trigger was longer ago, but it didn't all go pear-shaped until really quite soon before he left.

I actually feel a bit like I did in the first years after BD, when I felt gaslighted.  I later learned that it WAS because I was being gaslighted, or at least not told the truth to.  He was trying to turn it all round on me then, claiming that there never had been an OW, all that.  He came clean later and of admitted lots of things that I had suspected, but couldn't prove. 

Now it's not about an OW, but about money.  Now he wants the divorce, but just wants it over with without having to answer all sorts of questions, from what I can gather. 

I don't actually know what is going on; I feel like I've lost my frame of reference.  The way I did at BD, (except without that level of pain), when everything that I thought to be true turned out to be upside down.    Thank goodness for my kids; at least they are real. 

So I go about my life with joy, actual joy, not pretend joy, but there is this air of "surrealness" -- is that a word?   -- pervading through everything.    I'm not sure at all what is real; my H isn't a clinger; I'm not at all sure what he wants from me, althought he does somehow seem to want me to go along with his programme....   but what is that? 

I do so see why you need to take your stance into your own hands, absolutely. 

I need to go; will write more later...

Oh, and I love your door analogy! 

[Anjae]

It is also because those of us here are taking a different route than closing the door to them forever. 

And that is causing, I think, a lot of pain to many of us... If only we would manage to close the door for good...

The analogy that works best for me at the moment is; my door is closed, but if he knocks on the door respectfully and politely, I will most likely open it and see what he has to say.  I will keep him on the other side of the door, and if he gets abusive with me, then I will slam the door in his face!  If he comes to me in need, then I will invite him in, grab a box of tissues, and just listen.

The first part will go for me, the second, in need, he will be sent to SIL. And I will handle him the divorce papers to sign. Bu problem with in the middle is the lack of divorce/sort out financila matters. 6+years since he eft and he still does not sign the divorce?... Phew...

[Finding Hope]

Great thread.

The beginning, the middle, doesnt seem to matter to me anymore. It use to, I use to wonder where HE was only to realize that the only place that really mattered was where I was.

Where I am is facing my demons, conquering them one at a time and realizing for the first time in my life that Im a good person, and Im going to be OK.


FH

[JD]

And that is causing, I think, a lot of pain to many of us... If only we would manage to close the door for good...

I agree.  There is something stopping us from closing that door utterly and locking it.  What it is I couldn't say.

[Trustandlove]

I had another thought about the "middle" -- that it's when we stop looking at everything we read and thinking how it applies to our MLCer, and start thinking how it applies to ourselves.

I don't mean the articles, or things specifically about MLC, but other things.  The bits of philosophy that we pick up, the words of wisdom about growing up, and so on.  The things where we say -- 'if only H (or W, depending on the case) would read this and understand this...'   

For example, I read a good quote yesterday, in a book on the global financial crisis, of all things.  (Micheal Lewis' "Boomerang", since you ask...) -- it was "the smart person accepts, the idiot insists".  It was in the office of an official in Greece, apparently.  He also said that it was what people who were doing wrong did, insist that they were right.

Of course, it's so easy for our first thoughts to be:  "Exactly!  This is what my MLCer is doing!  This is what he/she needs to see!" 

But in this middle part, as we progress through it, we may still think that, but we now look more at ourselves, and think, yes, we need to accept, we can't go about ignoring reality, and so on.

I hope I'm making sense here; one thing I've noticed is that my ability to express myself clearly is still not good; one of the casualties of this crisis, at least for now, I'm afraid. 

[HeyJude]

T&L...i do understand what you are saying here..and i have also found the 'middle' to be a different phase/stage. There is no doubt that we have to make our own changes, find our own way on this journey forced upon us. My H left in Jan/Feb 2010, it had been building up, and was a 2nd fleeing and a 2nd OW. He ended up living with her sometime in 2011. He has been a sort of off and on vanisher type overall. I have seen so many different versions of him, of me, of us and when we have met up it is the strangest, most heartbreaking situation to not be us. I have seen him reach out, then go back in the tunnel...this time last year he said it was long term with OW, that the grass isn't greener etc etc..he told my cousin he 'f&*d up'  He told me he's messed up...i try and say that it can be unmessed...It is too surreal. I guess overall it's every 2 to 3 months i hear from him.

So much has happened and yet the process has to be what it has to be. Reading what you said from the book you are reading about the 'smart person accepts, the idiot insists'...for some reason this really hit home this time round..I do tend to now read things with me in mind whereas once upon a time i would want my H to read this or read that, to see what i saw..but i realise he wasn't awake or ready to hear anything i had to say. Particularly in the early stages..However i believe the odd seed and nut have been scattered for him to find...

It has become clearer over time how so very important it is to get strong again by focusing on us, to take the focus off them ... that has been a major turning point for me. Maybe i was scared that if i stopped thinking about him, stopped that connection, that somehow that would mean i had lost hope. I don't think that's the case. It is different now, my fog is lifting as well and i can still have hope. I do still think about him a lot, but it's different and i handle it a lot better. At this moment i remain steadfast in my instincts of what i believe could be. However, i do have to be careful i don't just live in my head and that my inner strength grows. So many layers to this.

After BD i completely shut down, i went inwards, PTSD..it has really only been the last few months i have felt some true strength return.  Though looking back, I did have the determination to go dim to no contact while OW is in the picture..had to to keep sane (of sorts!) It is him who contacts when he wants to meet up, and each time i struggle with the 'right' thing to do!..and as much as i want to see him...it's very hard.
He seems to have compartmentalised his life..has kept a relationship with our boys (23 and nearly 21) though much more limited and of course this has had hurt and affected them.

I have so many thoughts about this stage and will add some more another time. My confidence has taken such a whack..slowly getting better, and that definitely affected articulating my thoughts etc..i've noticed that though i want to upskill more in my work situation, the thought of 'stress' and more stress to get back on board with more demanding work, stops me from applying myself. My challenge at the moment.

there has been an interesting possible turn of events...and i know now NOT to have any expectations...but..last week my son came home in the evening having just been dropped off by his dad. He doesn't like to tell me beforehand if they're meeting up for a meal as in the past it has stirred up feelings for me and we both can find it difficult, though overall better at talking about things when we pick the right moment anyway...he said i would be pleased to hear that H was moving out from OW and down to his own small room in the town we used to live in.

I couldn't help myself but a huge smile must have appeared on my face but .. no expectations...i must admit, my first thought was about Christmas and how amazing it would be to be together for the day.

So the journey continues, the twists and turns and stages...more to come i'm sure!