Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Albatross on October 07, 2013, 08:41:58 AM
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Many of us have experienced great frustrations when trying to communicate with a MLCer. It's been long established that individuals who suffer MLC can become so consumed by their own emotions/self interests that communications become challenged, confused, interpreted in the worst way. 26 years ago, Jerold J. Kreisman, MD, published S.E.T. - a communication tool. Other tools followed, such as the DBT "D.E.A.R.M.A.N." in 1993 (Marsh Linehan, MD) and P.U.V.A.S. in 1998 (Paul Mason, Randi Kreger). These tools are summarized below.
These tools are more complex to use than they appear at first - especially in the emotional times that they are most needed.
• What works? What doesn't? What are traps to avoid?
• Has this been effective? What positive/negative/neutral affects has it had?
• Do you need to be the emotional caretaker? Is this just giving the MLCers what they want?
• How do you keep from damaging yourself in the process? What kind of life is this?
• Can this done with compromising the LBS principles?
S.E.T. - Jerold J. Kreisman, MD published SET (support, empathy, truth) in I Hate You, Don't Leave Me in 1991.
When first learning S.E.T., it can seem that you are being asked to agree with the MLCer. It important to clarify that validating feelings does not mean that you agree with them, only that you recognize that the MLCer is feeling them. It does not mean that you are letting the MLCer off the hook, instead you are focusing on honest communication and ensuring that you are being heard, not just reacting to and defending against what is being said.
S= Support refers to an initial statement which indicates the loved one supports the person who suffer MLC. It is a statement that begins with "I" and demonstrates concern and a desire to help. The support statement is meant to reassure the MLCer that the relationship is a safe one, and that her needs matter even during this difficult moment.
E= Empathy refers to communicating that the loved one understands what the MLCer is feeling, and focuses on "you." It is not a conveyance of pity or sympathy, but instead a true awareness and validation of the feelings of the MLCer.
"How frustrating this must be for you." It is important not to tell the MLCer how he/she is feeling, but instead put her demonstrated feelings into words. The goal is to convey a clear understanding of the uncomfortable feelings he/she is having and that they are OK.
T= Truth refers to a realistic and honest assessment of the situation and the MLCer role in solving the problem. It is an objective statement that focuses on the "it" -- not on the subjective experience of the MLCer or LBS. Often the MLCer may seem to be asking, or demanding, something impossible, not taking an active role or responsibility in resolving the issue, or even presenting you with a "no-win" situation. The truth statement is meant to clearly and honestly respond to the difficult demand or behavior of the MLCer, while placing responsibility appropriately: "This is what I can do…," "This is what will happen…,"
TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth
P.U.V.A.S. - Randi Kreger later published PUVAS in 1998 in Stop Walking on Eggshells
• P= Pay attention
• U= Understand fully
• V= Validate emotions
• A= Assert yourself
• S= Shift stuff where it belongs
This is like active listening when MLCer talk about some issue. I like last one in process. :P
D.E.A.R.M.A.N. - Marsha Linehan, MD published the DEARMAN in 1993 as part of her DBT training manual.
D= Describe the current situation. Tell the person exactly what you are reacting to. Stick to the facts.
E= Express your feelings and opinions about the situation. Assume that others cannot read your mind. Don’t expect others to know how hard it is for you to ask directly for what you want.
A= Assert yourself by asking for what you want or saying no clearly. Assume that others cannot read your mind. Don’t expect others to know how hard it is for you to ask directly for what you want.
R= Reinforce the reward to the person ahead of time. Tell the person the positive effects of getting what you want or need. Help the person feel good ahead of time for doing what you want.
M= Mindfully keep your focus on your objectives. Maintain your position. Don’t be distracted.
A= Appear Confident. Use a confident voice tone and physical manner; make good eye contact. No stammering, whispering, staring at the floor, retreating, saying “I’m not sure,” etc.
N= Negotiate by being willing to give to get. Offer and ask for alternative solutions to the problem. What am I willing to “settle for” or “give up” in order to gain what I want in the situation?
This tools I find in BPD community, I replace BD with MLC and NBD with LBS. And seems all real. :D Nonetheless can be very good tools in crisis with our beloved MLCers. Or in reconnection / reconciliation.
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Another two helpful techniques.
GIVE is used when you are working on keeping the relationship intact. You are sincerely working on helping make things better. This is not used to get what you want or to prove your point. In fact, those will make things worse.
(be) Gentle - Be courteous and kind in your approach.
* no attacks - verbal or physical. Express your anger directly with empathy
* no threats - don't be manipulative, no hidden threats, tolerate a "no" to requests, try to stay in the discussion even if it gets a little painful (emotionally). If it becomes abusive towards you though, then exit gracefully by taking a time out.
* no judging - no moralizing "if you were a good person, you would", no "you should" or "you shouldn't" since they are clear judgments, and NO sarcasm
(act) Interested - really LISTEN and be interested in what the other person is saying. Try to see their point of view, opinion, or possible reason for saying NO or for their request of you. Don't interrupt, talk over or be rude. Be careful of your facial expressions and body language, that it is agreeable and honest.
Validate - validate or ACKNOWLEDGE the other persons feelings, wants, difficulties, and opinions about the situation.
(use an) Easy manner - use a little humor to lighten the mood. Wheedle while being politically correct. Use a "soft sell" over a "hard sell" technique.
FAST is used to preserve your sense of self respect. This is your line in the sand kind of stuff. If you give in on these, you will feel awful about yourself.
(be) Fair - be fair to YOURSELF and to the OTHER person.
(no) Apologies - Don't be OVERLY apologetic. Don't apologize for being alive or for making the request at all. Don't apologize for having an opinion or for disagreeing.
Stick to your values - Stick to YOUR OWN values. Don't sell out your values or integrity for reasons that aren't important. Be clear on what you believe is the moral or valued way of thinking and acting, and "stick" to your guns.
(be) Truthful - DON'T LIE OR ACT HELPLESS when you are not. Do Not EXAGGERATE. Don't make up excuses.
All of those techniques is not easy to adopt in daily life. Need a lot practice. And after enough practice can become our habit.
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Yep, this is how I've been trying to act with my MLCer. I do slip up on occasions!
I think this is worth following in any situation, not just MLC.
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• Can this done with compromising the LBS principles?
I believe you mean without compromising the LBS principles.
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• Can this done with compromising the LBS principles?
I believe you mean without compromising the LBS principles.
Of course I do. Thank You for correction.
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Interesting.. once again Albatross you have me fascinated. I love learning something new and you often provide. You're like part of my GALing :)
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Interesting.. once again Albatross you have me fascinated. I love learning something new and you often provide. You're like part of my GALing :)
I am learner. And tray to share my knowledge with others. Unfortunately in life some people thinks that I am bragger. :-[ I am so excited when I learn something good and have urge to share with people.
Thank You justbelieve.
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You are not a bragger! Some people have blinkers on or just plain stupid, no help for them ::)
You are kind and clever. They're not. Too bad ;)
Make sure to take care of yourself as well though, we are here for you, too xx
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You're very welcome :)
You're not a bragger. You're a teacher and I, for one, love to learn. Keep sharing honey :)
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Dr. Paul Hannig
Abusive Relationships need to be acknowledged. Healthy Relationships need to be understood and claimed. Are you in an abusive relationship? Do you want an ecstatic union? Stop the Denial! Get the help that you, your partner and your relationship needs!
Let the Games Begin: Fair Fighting/Unfair Fighting
CLICK HERE (http://www.nvo.com/psych_help/nss-folder/articles/Let%20the%20Games%20Begin.htm) to read great article !
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I t is very true, and we should pay attention of this trying to catch how feel or think our MLCers.
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gosh that last one is so true, I am sleeping a lot lately! Or going to bed early at least.
Albatross this is so helpful to me. One of my difficulties with my H was how to effectively communicate my feelings, I never could do it effectively. He couldn't either and so we just both got defensive and angry and it escalated. We tried to get help with this but the help was useless, it wasn't help. If only I had read this sort of thing. Thank you so much for all you do for us here, the threads on replay are brilliant too. I am trying to catch up with them.
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gosh that last one is so true, I am sleeping a lot lately! Or going to bed early at least.
Albatross this is so helpful to me. One of my difficulties with my H was how to effectively communicate my feelings, I never could do it effectively. He couldn't either and so we just both got defensive and angry and it escalated. We tried to get help with this but the help was useless, it wasn't help. If only I had read this sort of thing. Thank you so much for all you do for us here, the threads on replay are brilliant too. I am trying to catch up with them.
I am glad to be helpful, but I never understand people who can't share feelings. What is so terrifying sharing feelings ? I have no problem with that, but what I will never forgive my self is that I stop do it when I marry to my wife. When someone find funny listening You sharing feelings then You in time back off. Sad.
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gosh that last one is so true, I am sleeping a lot lately! Or going to bed early at least.
Albatross this is so helpful to me. One of my difficulties with my H was how to effectively communicate my feelings, I never could do it effectively. He couldn't either and so we just both got defensive and angry and it escalated. We tried to get help with this but the help was useless, it wasn't help. If only I had read this sort of thing. Thank you so much for all you do for us here, the threads on replay are brilliant too. I am trying to catch up with them.
I am glad to be helpful, but I never understand people who can't share feelings. What is so terrifying sharing feelings ? I have no problem with that, but what I will never forgive my self is that I stop do it when I marry to my wife. When someone find funny listening You sharing feelings then You in time back off. Sad.
That is sad, so did your wife find it uncomfortable listening to your feelings? So it was her issue, her inability and discomfort to share feelings that caused her to find it funny?
I shouldn't have written my inability to communicate my feelings, we both shared our feelings a lot, it was more an inability to deal with conflict. That was when H and I came undone, we would spiral out of control when we argued because we both reacted, we didn't listen to each other, we both did the destructive things described in the article. The rest of the time, when we weren't arguing we were super fine at communicating. It was just the arguing. So sad we never found the right information to help us. We tried but I wonder if each of us wasn't ready to look at ourselves and our own behaviours, we were too busy blaming the other.
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That is sad, so did your wife find it uncomfortable listening to your feelings? So it was her issue, her inability and discomfort to share feelings that caused her to find it funny?
Yes, she never said to me simple I love You. She said that she appreciate actions instead talking. Means showing love acting. Anyway normal way should be in both ways. Saying to someone I love You and that in real is not true are empty words. Also never saying is not normal. I also compliment her, but she said that mine compliments don't count because I am biased. So, in time You simply stop doing it. Yes, when someone make fun of Your feelings then You back off. I assume she afraid sharing own feelings, so if You make fun of it on that way defend self and not show it.
I shouldn't have written my inability to communicate my feelings, we both shared our feelings a lot, it was more an inability to deal with conflict. That was when H and I came undone, we would spiral out of control when we argued because we both reacted, we didn't listen to each other, we both did the destructive things described in the article. The rest of the time, when we weren't arguing we were super fine at communicating. It was just the arguing. So sad we never found the right information to help us. We tried but I wonder if each of us wasn't ready to look at ourselves and our own behaviours, we were too busy blaming the other.
Anyway I am think that every LBS had for sure some issues, but we belong in group of normal people, after all we did not hit MLC. MLCers are people with some issues from childhood, FOO issues and probably they did not fully psychologically developed in teen age.
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I think people feel to vulnerable when they share intimate feelings..it gives the other some kind of insight and an Achilles heel to go for when the next fight erupts.
Somehow sharing is weakness..not strength. People are afraid to share too much even when it comes to someone they trust..fear of rejection...of humiliation.. whatever insecurities they have.
Fear only has the power you give it. The unknown's the "what if's?" "the why's?" "the when's?"
Sharing fears with another really can be an amazing emotional connection between two people. Then they can work it out together instead of it putting more space between them.
The loss of a child has to be one of the most immense things a couple could try to overcome IMHO but I know of at least two this has happened to and it made their bond closer. Stronger.
To me that's what adversity is SUPPOSED to do...not put more distance between you.
But with what's being dealt with here their first instinct is RUN. Some have been doing it for years....
They'll out run ignore, lie, avoid, deny ,distract themselves do anything they can NOT to deal with it.
Your not working with a "whole person" here.
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I t is very true, and we should pay attention of this trying to catch how feel or think our MLCers.
So many of these explains my H post BD and some after....thank you Albatross.
Though I am new here...I love all of your postings...your W must have lost her mind to let you go. :)
In time, I will post this on FB, my H will see it...maybe it will lighten up some of his confusion....
SSG
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So many of these explains my H post BD and some after....thank you Albatross.
Though I am new here...I love all of your postings...your W must have lost her mind to let you go. :)
In time, I will post this on FB, my H will see it...maybe it will lighten up some of his confusion....
SSG
Thank You very much, you bring tears on my eyes. Yes, I love her so deeply. She means everything to me, but when I look at her, remain only shadow of my wife... she was wonderful woman...
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Thank You very much, you bring tears on my eyes. Yes, I love her so deeply. She means everything to me, but when I look at her, remain only shadow of my wife... she was wonderful woman...
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Albatross, this to me is the worst part of the crisis. Seeing my W is so sad because she has greatness inside her but this has taken her and she is living so far beneath the woman she is, or was. We are separated and I wish we weren't but the woman that was living with me for the last year was not my wife any way. I just keep praying that God keep her during this time, and that she find her way.