Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: thetruth on September 29, 2014, 10:35:43 AM
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Hi everyone,
I've been reading all of the stories with great interest and sadness.
I'm struck by one consistent theme:
Yes, the 'BD' comes out of the blue, literally like a bomb.
But where are the posts where the spouse left behind (LBS?) reflects on what role they played over the years leading up to the bomb drop?
Yes, I've read some posts where the person mention "hints that something was being wrong but never expected this" but those seem to be overrun by other people who say something like "No, he/she is definitely an MLCer", reinforcing what the original person thinks. And so it goes...give them time space etc...they have the issues, they are the child/adolescent etc.
Surely to goodness, there can't be so many perfect spouses, meeting all of their spouse's needs want' etc. that the term "mid-life crisis" came about only because of the MLCer and his/her behaviour, how its all the fault of the MLCer and that the LBS should just let them go and spin (my words) till they grow up. Seems an awfully convenient way for the LBS to avoid confronting their issues which will only resurface in the next relationship. Or maybe that circle only applies to MLCers? I'm not sure, can someone explain this?
Or maybe I've missed the point and the forum is intended to support the LBS without any questions about their role in the breakdown of their relationship.
Thanks for reading,
Looking for the truth...
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Hello,
I suspect you may get quite a few answers to your post, so I guess I will try and start them off.
To me it's a bit like hating bacon and having a real problem with it all together, in fact you tell your spouse you love it. So guess what you get bacon every day because you never told the spouse your true feelings, but your spouse thinks he/she is making you happy.
Until bd that is, I am leaving you because I hate bacon and you have given it to me to eat for the past 20 years. I never said a word to you, but you should have known I didn't like bacon.
I hope that ridiculous example will half way explain why the lbs is here and trying to work out what are valid complaints from the mlcer and what are veiled projections. No one here is professing to be perfect in any way, in fact there are many here struggling to believe they are worth anything at all having taken the projections and complaints from the mlcer and replaced by a new model.
Looking towards your role in your marriage takes time because you are first of all way too broken by the sudden turnaround. This site is not that old therefore many are just coming to that stage.
No marriage is perfect,no person is perfect, and each person wil naturally reflect on themselves as part of the growing process.
Maybe if our spouses had alerted us to the fact that bacon wasn't acceptable we could have reflected on a few things earlier, who knows. All we do know now is that our spouse do have major issues which in one way or another have changed us and we are all currently trying to find our feet and who we are without them.
Sd
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Interesting post and question to put out there.
I'm no newbie and my initial posts are pretty old (October of 2010) but I went through months and months of feeling shame and guilt over my far less than perfect track record of being a wife. But I was particularly hard on myself and used to be someone who was more than willing to take responsibility for other peoples actions. Years of self reflection and hard work have helped me to learn to take ownership og only MY part in the failure of my long term marriage.
That being said, I did not break up our family, I did not abandon my kids, I did not stray or have an affair. My Ex owns those things.
No. I didn't see it coming. In hindsight, I was in denial. The signs were all there.
I did not show the respect that I should have for my husband. I did take both him and our relationship for granted. I don't believe that these errors were fatal nor that the two of us could not have worked through the problems in our marriage had we both put efforts towards this. The problem was, once he spoke about his unhappiness he was already involved with someone else and had checked out. In his mind he had already divorced me.
When this happens, there are many stages that the lbs goes through. There is another thread on this site that is discussing the lbs stages. When hit with bomb drop it is very easy for the lbs to wallow in victim mentality. The Mlcer will do and say many things that are very hurtful to the lbs and the family.
Edit http://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=2625.0 - add in link for thread mentioned above OldPilot
But being the victim doesn't help us in the slightest. In fact, it harms us. It makes us believe that we have no power in our own lives. When in fact, we do.
Not sure where you are heading with this thread, but there is my truth.
L
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I am not perfect but prior to BD I thought we were happy.
As to the role I played....sorry but not sure that I did until he tells me.
I never got monster, he also said it was him and not me. He is a shift worker so my main complaint was not seeing enough of him. Maybe I put my life on hold, I had my personal time when he was at work and he had his on his days off when I was at work.
In hindsight in the last year he focused a lot on work, wouldn't take holidays as too much work to do when he got back. But still said he loved me, surprised me with dinners out, cosy afternoons watching old movies, being normal as per the whole of our relationship.
BD was completely out of the blue...I then had 4 months where he couldn't decide whether to stay or leave...obviously I then knew something was very wrong.
H changed...I am not the only one to notice...obviously it bothers me he chose an OW but the personality change too???
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Or maybe I've missed the point and the forum is intended to support the LBS without any questions about their role in the breakdown of their relationship.
Since MLC is a personal issue of the MLCer and not a relationship or marital issue, the LBS does not play a role in their partner/spouse MLC. It is like addiction or a mental illness, it is an issue of the individual, not of the marriage/relationship.
There is not much point in looking for what role the LBS had in the break of the relationship because the relationship did not break (not in the normal sense of relationship break).
What the LBS do, after BD, is to heal and work on themselves. But that work is done for the LBS.
The hints of something being wrong are from when the spouse is already in MLC. MLC does not start at BD, it starts before. Sometimes years before.
Often what we notice is that our spouse is depressed/irritable but we do not know exactly what is going on. Nor does the MLCer.
It is also not a question of perfect spouses. No one is perfect. Our MLCer also weren't. And there is that small factor called 180 in which the MLCers does a complete change of personality.
No to mentions that, out of the blue, after 10, 15, 320, 25, 30 or more years, the MLCer all of a sudden starts to say they never loved the LBS, they have always been unhappy, etc.
It is really starting to be tiring this thing of constantly wanting to know the role ot the LBS in a spouse MLC when MLC is an individual issue of the MLCer. Nothing we had, or had not done lead to our spouses MLC.
Read the articles on my signature.They explain you MLC.
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180 personality change and sudden overspending have nothing to do with LBS. Signs that this is their crisis.
That said, nobody is perfect and it is a great opportunity for LBS growth. I know I have gained patience and lost trust in relationships. I don't know where I will end up with that relationship trust thing... currently I am being patient with myself on that. Big gain in trust of God which is most important gift I get from this.
In many cases here friends and family thought these marriages were great. I can't tell you how many times I've heard that we were about the last couple that friends thought would ever break apart. I agree, we were great together.
For whatever reason, FOO, age, hormones, etc this has happened and is our reality. Takes a bit to figure that out because it is such a change from the life we knew.
We gave our kids a solid moral base. I'm still doing that role.
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TheTruth, you pose a perfectly rational question for a normal divorce. Problem is most people on this forum are not going through a normal divorce.
I have a letter my husband wrote to me on our 24th anniversary. "we are not like normal couples, I can't believe how lucky I am, here's to 40 more years blah, blah, blah. Three years later he's telling people that "we decided together that we were not meant to be"...it took 28+ years to figure that out?!?
Was I perfect...of course not. But he did not say one word. NOT ONE WORD. He shut me out and ran away. No warning.
Sorry this LBS did not deserve this treatment.
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I've recently been pondering this as well (for my situation only). What I can say though is that, for me personally, my W came up with a lot of what I now realize are simply excuses to justify her behavior. But at the time I took it all to heart and therefore all of the blame. Others have had similar experiences from what I have read.
For example, she gave reasons such as "remember that time 12 years ago when you took the covered parking space at the apartment we lived in", "remember that time when you used my phone upgrade", and "you would never want to go eat at any seafood restaraunts" (let's forget the fact that seafood makes me sick and she ended up getting seafood where we went anyway).
In my mind these are things that are not only fixable, but one time occurances that she should have at least told me about before now or at the very least been able to get over after 12 years. I came to the conclusion that had I not done these things, she would have had other excuses to replace them with. No one is perfect; we all do things that are selfish or mean at times. We are, after all, human. I chose to forgive and forget; it is apparent that she chose to remember every little thing I did that bothered her. She then used these as ammunition to justify her leaving. Did she plan this? I doubt it, but she did it none the less.
Placing the blame on me rather than owning up to her own feelings is from what I understand a trademark sign of a MLC. There are other similarities as well. Things the do and say for example. They will tell the LBS the exact same things VERBATIM. "I love you, but I'm not in love with you", "I just want to go and have fun", "I don't want to work it out, I just don't want to be married anymore". They take on a childlike persona. My W got a belly button ring, cut off all of her hair and bleached it blonde, began to run like she did in high school, and started working out excessively. She became narcissistic and took on a whole different attitude. She really is like a stranger now.
As mentioned above, this is often a shock to the LBS because we had no idea. Yes, looking back of course we can come up with all kinds of things that we have done to our spouse that we probably shouldn't have. But you know what, so has everyone else. Our spouses included. Did I suddenly feel the need to break up my family and leave? No. Do I blame all of my feelings on her? No. Neither does anyone else who is thinking rationally.
When I went to the doctor to get help; I told him what I was going through and some of the things that she said. He has been my W's doctor her whole life so he knows her very well. Even he told me "she's not thinking right, that isn't right; that isn't normal". I'm not trying to blame my situation on a midlife crisis. I didn't just think to myself "oh, that must be it". I wasn't even the one who thought of the possibility of it being a midlife crisis; her mother did. I did a lot of research before I came here and shared my story. What really solidified it for me was an article I read that was supposed to be a generic outline of a person in a midlife crisis. That generic article could have been written specifically about my wife. It was scary accurate in it's details. The author explained that while everyone is different; all midlifer's "play from the same play book".
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Here is my .02 about this even though you have gotten some great responses.
The LBS has faults that they need to work on.
They are probably not the reason that an MLC divorce occurs.
They can actually be very difficult to figure out exactly what "MIRROR WORK" you need to DO.
I am sure you would be willing to DO anything to SAVE your marriage.
Unfortunately that might be exactly the problem.
You have entered the OPPOSITE WORLD where everything is not as it seems to be.
And it does not make perfect sense for quite a while.
So what were YOUR faults and transgressions that led to the demise of your marriage?
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My $0.02:
The answer is based on each individual situation, circumstances and history of the couple. I will agree that the MLC portion of problem is definitely on the MLCer and their own issues. However, I do believe there are three basic situations presented on this board:
1) Those that had the "perfect" marriage (i.e. no purposeful neglect, abuse, stonewalling, etc..) and were, for the most part, a good couple.
2) Those that had some marital issues at one point or another, maybe ongoing, that exacerbated the complaints of the MLCer.
3) Those that had major marital issues in conjunction with the MLCer; the marital problems were not only real, they triggered the FOO issues of the MLCer. In this case, I believe you have a combination of a WAS & MLT/C situation.
I personally believe mine falls in between #2 & #3 somewhere! She has major issues of abandonment & "daddy" issues! This was exacerbated by my military career....deployed over half of our marriage; she was forced into "single parent" role while I was off in far away places. I believe the disconnect started a long time ago! She stopped talking about anything, and if I asked what was wrong I got the typical "Nothing" or "I'm fine". Continued lack of communication pushed me away from her to the point where I was neglectful.
Eventually, we were walking parallel paths but we were no longer a "couple". Sure, when we were out with friends, everyone thought we were the model marriage.....facade!
In the end, it's over for us. And that was my call...the LBS made his choice...and it didn't come without self-reflection and fully looking back on the entire marriage, looking for the red flags, looking at my part as well as hers, and the MLC itself! She may be in MLC, and I truly believe she is, but to be honest, we aren't compatible anymore either and I don't think we ever will be! It's sad, and explaining to the kids was the worst part, but D11 seems to be adapting fairly well. No issues at school, no outbursts, none of the typical issues yet that I can see!
That's my particular situation anyway!
Obo
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I think it is very very difficult for a person who has not had experience with a spouse with MLC to understand the dynamics of a MLC relationship.
In a sense MLC is like a poker game that is rigged, no matter what happens you lose. That is to say it may be easy to find points of dissatisfaction that the person with MLC has with the spouse. One could make an argument that it is the LBS fault. Why did the LBS not change to meet the needs of the person with MLC?
However when you are in a relationship with someone who has MLC it really doesnt matter what you do, the person with MLC is unhappy. That is to say you offer them chicken, they say they dont like chicken. You offer them beef and they dont like beef. The food is either to hot or to cold. The person in MLC just plain doesnt like things. The MLCer has a long list of unmet demands, most of which have never even been verbalized. It is not unusual for the MLCer to blame the LBS for things over which they have no control. For example a MLCer might blame the LBS for the weather, for the fact the MLCer lost his job, or that their kids did not grow up to be corporate executives. No matter what has gone wrong it must be the LBS fault. More often than not the MLCer doesn´t like his job, doesn´t like his wife, and doesnt like his kids. So they build a fantasy where if they just meet the RIGHT PERSON they will find happiness. The first woman (or man) who throws themselves at them becomes part of the fantasy, and they run off together leaving the wife and kids to pick up and deal with the wreckage alone.
The thing about fantasies is that eventually they break down, and the MLCer is stuck with reality and has to start all over again. Only now they don´t have a job, or a home, or a family that loves them. They have thrown it all away.
However I think the key thing which defines the MLCer and differentiates it from a normal marital breakdown is the lack of empathy. In a normal marital breakdown it is possible to engage in reasoned conversation, and neither side necessarily wants to hurt the other. In MLC the MLCer is characterized by alternating coldness and rage and an inability to care for or about his family. The LBS is shocked by the lack of normal human compassion.
I am not saying that the LBS is perfect, I am just saying that from the beginning the LBS doesn´t have a chance. It doesn´t matter whether the LBS is perfect or not, they are still doomed to failure.
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May I ask what are you TheTruth? A LBS? A MLCer? A recovering MLCer? A curious bystander?
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I would echo Anjae's question above.
I don't think anyone here would say they had a perfect marriage. I just know that I had a very healthy relationship with my husband for almost 20 years before he MLCed. We had issues, all couples do, but we worked them out. Indeed, in a normal relationship with normal marriage difficulties, you work through it, or at least make an effort.
My husband is a total opposite of who he was pre-crisis. That screams to me that there is something dreadfully wrong.
I think I would have known if there was something fatally wrong in my marriage. My husband's behaviors and actions would have let me know, and he would have told me. He couldn't have been acting all that time. And believe me, if he had told me, I would have done by level best to work on issues with him.
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I'm not sure if you've only read the forum or if you've also read the article section on this site. I don't read the forum very often, but I'm very familiar with the articles......so I wanted to provide the insight from RCR's articles to your question.
From Midlife Crisis Takes Time
Though no one is perfect, in the beginning you will search your own behaviour for what went wrong. Since the MLCer often offers a long list of your transgressions, it is not a difficult search. In the beginning, many LBS's accept this blame, using it as the excuse for the bad marriage. For many experiencing this crisis in their marriage, there was no bad marriage. Though nothing is perfect, many problems were not significant enough to warrant danger. The problem is the Midlife Crisis. Some of the MLCer complaints are valid. Listen, validate and affirm, and then filter what feels valid to you. This crisis is not your fault; it would have happened regardless of your behaviour.
In Brief, MLC is about unresolved issues from childhood or adolescence. The MLCer must now resolve these issues and reintegrate the fragmented portions of the Self. Since these are issues of a younger person, they need to be resolved by that younger Self--thus the MLCer will regress in age.
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or that their kids did not grow up to be corporate executives. No matter what has gone wrong it must be the LBS fault.
Mine actually said to more than one person (b/c he rarely talks to me) that he was upset that the kids grew up. Yes, with a serious face he is mad that the kids grew up. Normal divorce????
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May I ask what are you TheTruth? A LBS? A MLCer? A recovering MLCer? A curious bystander?
I am a man whose marriage is in crisis.
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Surely to goodness, there can't be so many perfect spouses, meeting all of their spouse's needs want' etc. that the term "mid-life crisis" came about only because of the MLCer and his/her behaviour, how its all the fault of the MLCer and that the LBS should just let them go and spin (my words) till they grow up
I am a man whose marriage is in crisis.
Do you have concerns that you may have caused the crisis in your marriage? It's not unusual to feel this way if you have been fed a lot of BS, been gas-lighted and subjected to covert aggression and manipulation by a wayward spouse.
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The Truth, I whole-heartedly agree with everything that was written here by all of these very smart and well spoken posters. Thank you DGU for that quote from RCR as well.
Yes, we are here to support the LBS's because we are in the same boat and we understand their pain like no outsider does. We hold each other up and give strength to each other when needed. We do listen to each other about what we may have done to cause this disaster in our marriages and none of it is bad enough to cause what our loved ones did to our lives and our children's lives. These people have withdrawn and withheld love towards their families until we finally see that something is very wrong with this picture. If you are able to read the beginning of most of these threads (many are 3 or 4 years old and not available in this years' threads), you will see that we have looked inward and are working on ourselves. We all know that we are not perfect! Many of us did change things at home that our spouses all of a sudden were complaining about....and they left anyway. I doubt that many MLCer's have taken that journey, instead they have chosen to run away because it was EASIER than the alternative. Their depressed way of thinking and their behavior became childlike; so like little children, they throw a tantrum and leave with the OP and usually take or spend all of the money with no regard for their children or spouses welfare. They work in Denial mode and tell themselves "this will not hurt my family so I will do as I please and they will get over it". Their depression has caused their feelings of love for their families to be buried deep down inside and they feel nothing, that is until the first OP comes along and pays them attention and validates all of their false issues about their spouses and then they are 'in love' (chemical infatuation) with this other person in a very short period of time. Then, the marriages break apart and most end up in divorce court. So yes, we are here to support each other thru good days and bad days...or years.
I am also waiting to hear your response to Anjae's question. I do not think you are a curious bystander by the tone of your statements. I think maybe you are in early MLC, but denying it, or that you are here to cast doubt that MLC even exits. Well, here you have hundreds of people that will tell you otherwise from all over the globe!!!! There are too many similarities for this all to be a coincidence.
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meeting all of their spouse's needs
Thetruth this is in fact the phrase which demonstrates your identity as a man in MLC. You believe that the role of the LBS is to meet all of their spouses needs. This is incorrect, both because it is impossible, and because it is the role of a mother, not a spouse.
The spouse is a separate person, they exist just like you, not to meet your needs, but as a separate individual who shares with you. A spouse may love you, but it is impossible that they will meet all your needs.That is because your needs are YOURS, you determine what they are. If you set the bar to high, they may be impossible for anyone to meet.
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meeting all of their spouse's needs
Thetruth this is in fact the phrase which demonstrates your identity as a man in MLC.
I agree with lj, the truth, but please don't feel like we are here to attack you.
If you need help, a place to vent, a place to help understand what it going on, this forum is for you. If you are confused what you are feeling with yourself and your marriage, you must have questions, please talk to us. We are here to help each other. If you do think you might be at the beginning of a crisis, believe me, we have a million questions for you too.
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I have to admit, I am very interested in the OPs post. For all I have read over and over and over again, this is still one confusing aspect to me.
I seem to have read both sides of the equation:
1) This is about unresolved childhood issues. You as an LBS had nothing to do with your spouse in MLC.
2) Due to unfulfilled needs of the spouse, this caused the spouse in crisis to go into MLC.
I can't remember verbatim but that is the two different ideas I seem to have read. So, is the LBS not to blame at all or partially to blame?
As for my personal situation, I feel its kind of both. I know my wife has been an accommodater her whole life, and basically defined who she was by those around her. I also have my part to play in the years of complacency (emotional neglect) in our marriage.
-Terrified
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I could echo what everyone else is saying here but in particular, what nah said about these not being "normal" divorces.
I can own up to my part in this(although some of my deficiencies were in response to the unrecognized beginnings of my H's crisis) but most of us have been the recipients of stunning cruelty and lack of respect by our MLCers.
I remember going out for drinks with my H a mere few days after BD and him talking about how excited he was at the prospect of getting out there to date; he said to me, "Aren't you excited?" as if I would want to after my spouse of 17 years blew my world apart.
Or when he would come home while he still lived with us and talk to me about women he could sleep with. I would think to myself, "My God, normal people don't act this way, even when divorcing." These are mild examples. There is also the abandonment of our children by formerly loving, involved parents and sometimes even their seeming resentment.
I have often been shocked by his bragging not just to me, but our children about good things in his new life that we do not experience on our limited means.
Another difference in our situation is yes, we have all obsessed over our roles but the MLCer takes no responsibility for their actions.
They have no blame in this, everything bad in their lives is caused by us and they pull no punches when enlightening us(I could make another point about things like using bagged salad or how one looks eating tacos being reasons given that I have seen on here but I won't).
I also wondered if you are an MLCer who has found the site. We are very interested in your situation whatever the case.
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Welcome to the Board
You are in a good place.
Your W is on her own journey.
You can not do anything to control this trip.
Come here and read or vent, we will listen.
Give your W space she needs to heal herself.
I would not ask her anything unless you can have no expectations.
Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure.
You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your W as controlling or pressure.
Your need to start working on you.
There is nothing that you can do to help your W.
She has given you a gift.
It is time!!
Use the time wisely to make yourself a better person.
Look in the mirror to see what it is that you can improve.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
GAL.
Read some books on depression. Both for yourself! And for W.
Believe none of what she says and 50% of what she does.
Read the resources from this site.
The links that are in my signature.
Detach. - The single most important thing you can do
The detach link and HB's 6 stages of MLC(rewritten from Jim Conway) located in the resources above.
Developing Detachment
http://jamesjmessina.com/toolsforcontrolissues/developdetachment.html
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_releasers_detach.html
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/
Do you want a mentor?
Please make a post that says so and
If so one will be assigned shortly.
Keep posting and asking questions and we will try to answer them.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
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I tend to agree with you terrified-in... I realize that the actual crisis was my husbands. Totally his. We all have choices, he could have taken a different route. That being said, I too became complacent, boring, a little resentful too, if I am going to be completely honest. VICTIM mode, big time. You know the scenario, "he got to have a career, while I did labour intense jobs, min. wage, as they fit better into the schedule of mother/employer, role".... "always supported my h, but where was he for me?"
That sort of stuff. I am pretty certain I would never have done one single thing to change the way our lives were, at that time. I felt I had ALREADY tried, he wasn't interested... shrug, shrug.
My feelings about MLC and it being an illness, preventable ... or not, yikes, I fluctuate to this day about that. My h admits, he knew what he was doing. Sorry, but that to me says... "THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU STOP doing it?"
Good discussion... hugs Stayed
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Hi
You have received some excellent responses , I hope that you will post more as hearing different views can be a learning curve for all concerned .
Callan
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Echoing what others have said: the MLC isn't about the spouse but about them. During one session with my IC, when I was still blaming myself for the implosion of my marriage, I was talking about my choices. What if I had done this, that, or something else. And then I looked at my IC and said, "I would still be in this exact same situation."
Normal, rational people do not do the kinds of things to people they love that an MLCer does to the LBS. Would you, a sane human being, tell your W she should sleep with other men as long as their Pen!$ is smaller than his? Of course not, but that's one of the things mine said to me...and he was serious. Would you take your girlfriend camping the morning after your wife experienced the bad reaction to anti-depressants? Guessing not. But I got that one, too. And there is absolutely nothing I did to justify the way I was treated.
I wasn't perfect...I spent too much time working on my doctorate. Is that a reason to overspend! Is that a reason to unzip and put that Pen!$ where it didn't belong? No. I did not drive that man away. Could I have done things different? Sure. But I would still be tethered to a man with MLC.
The LBS and children are victims. Many of us have done everything we could to save our marriage, following conventional wisdom. It doesn't matter...the MLC must happen. As OP said, our job is to look to ourselves. We may be almost as broken as the MLCer, but the difference is, we are able to make rational choices (or, we reach that point once we've worked through the devastation).
Remember that one of the stages of a betrayed person is blaming themselves. As we work through our betrayal and look to ourselves, we do learn that we are not responsible. We begin to heal. But healing takes time. We must learn to let go of them. We cannot fix them: we can only fix ourselves, and we do at when we are ready. Period.
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I read this today on FB...maybe MLC is different, maybe not but it says some interesting things and the taking care of ourselves is essential.
Sometimes people walk away from love because it is so beautiful that it terrifies them. Sometimes they leave because the connection shines a bright light on their dark places and they are not ready to work them through. Sometimes they run away because they are not developmentally prepared to merge with another- they have more individuation work to do first. Sometimes they take off because love is not a priority in their lives- they have another path and purpose to walk first. Sometimes they end it because they prefer a relationship that is more practical than conscious, one that does not threaten the ways that they organize reality. Because so many of us carry shame, we have a tendency to personalize love's leavings, triggered by the rejection and feelings of abandonment. But this is not always true. Sometimes it has nothing to do with us. Sometimes the one who leaves is just not ready to hold it safe. Sometimes they know something we don't- they know their limits at that moment in time. Real love is no easy path- readiness is everything. May we grieve loss without personalizing it. May we learn to love ourselves in the absence of the lover.
I would add that sometimes they were ambivalent right from when they first married and reach a point where this is just NOT what they want. Because we have freedom, we MUST accept that, even though we think that they MUST continue to love us because of the promises they made. For whatever reason, if they do not feel that love for us, we cannot make them. And perhaps, they are actually being honest with themselves and us for the first time in their lives
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Very interesting words xyzcf .
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I would add that sometimes they were ambivalent right from when they first married and reach a point where this is just NOT what they want. Because we have freedom, we MUST accept that, even though we think that they MUST continue to love us because of the promises they made. For whatever reason, if they do not feel that love for us, we cannot make them. And perhaps, they are actually being honest with themselves and us for the first time in their lives
This is very interesting! Indeed! ???
hugs Stayed
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OceanLady, here is the reply to my question.
I am a man whose marriage is in crisis.
And now I have another question. Is your marriage is crisis because you are in crisis or because you wife is in crisis?
And it is not the marriage who is/has in/the crisis, it is the person. Lets not forget that single people have MLC, therefore invalidating that MLC is a marital/spousal issue.
As for a spouse meeting all our needs. No persob all the needs of another person,
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OceanLady, here is the reply to my question.
I am a man whose marriage is in crisis.
And now I have another question. Is your marriage is crisis because you are in crisis or because you wife is in crisis?
And it is not the marriage who is/has in/the crisis, it is the person. Lets not forget that single people have MLC, therefore invalidating that MLC is a marital/spousal issue.
As for a spouse meeting all our needs. No persob all the needs of another person,
My guess is they are BOTH in crisis.
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My guess is they are BOTH in crisis.
That would not be uncommon. Still, it would be two people in crisis. Of course it would like the marriage is in crisis.
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It seems people are a little confused as to why you are questioning the "role of the LBS". We know the actual crisis is not about us. We LBS's get that. I guess what some of us question and others absolutely refuse to even consider is, would the crisis have happened if our spouses had been with someone else? Did our actions/behaviour contribute to the eventual "crisis"?
Is that what you are questioning terrified_in_TN? I think the LBS goes through a lengthy period where we believe the complaints, the criticisms of our MLCer. In fact, there always is SOME truth in what they say. This truly needs to be considered. These questions about ourselves is what is going to ricochet us onto this journey, that we did not ask for.
This journey is going to teach us much, hopefully. Some of the MLCer's complaints were justified and hopefully, part of our journey will be to rectify these traits, that really are not helpful to anybody, least of all ourselves. We have so many questions about ourselves, our spouses/partner, our marriages/relationships. Why did we become overly assertive, controlling, or perhaps we became passive and compliant? That's just the tip of the iceberg, I am sure everybody has their own private queries. This is the time to inspect yourself, your partner, your relationship.
The actual crisis, that's not our problem. We really can't do anything about that. Still, we can rectify some behaviours that developed over the years and discover why we changed. Maybe you will want to stay that way, perhaps you won't, but now is the time to honestly evaluate your own PERSONAL responses, behaviour and actions.
Seriously, what do you have to lose? We are definitely in no state to start a new R, with our original partner or a brand new one, so why not spend the time and figure out how you tick. I've been 8 years and I'm still discovering things, about both of us.
Hugs Stayed
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Thank you to everyone for their replies, I appreciate the time it takes.
I have read much of the reference material on the main site and found it very informative.
I know spouses/partners are not there to be all things for the other, I apologize for my gross generalization in my first post.
If I can sum up what I think I've read, an MLC is marked by many different actions and conditions, most notably but not exclusively, sudden and drastic changes in behaviour, affairs (physical and emotional), and an apparent complete loss of interest or love in the spouse. And this dramatic change has its roots in unmet childhood needs.
That said, it appears that issues found in long-term marriages or relationships such as ineffective communication, issues of respect and boundaries, differences over money, intimacy, work and other issues will not cause an MLC because an MLC is a preexisting 'condition' waiting to be triggered.
Is that a fair statement?
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I agree with that..makes the most sense to me.
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Issues found in long-term marriages or relationships such as ineffective communication, issues of respect and boundaries, differences over money, intimacy, work and other issues will not cause an MLC because an MLC is a preexisting 'condition' waiting to be triggered.
Interesting point thetruth. All of those things you name are certainly factors that can cause the breakdown of a marriage. However MLC and the breakdown of a marriage are two totally separate things.
MLC is not a preexisting condition, it is a life stage which some individuals go through, usually between the age of 40 and 60. It can last from two to ten years but the average is around five. It is most likely multifactorial, and perhaps not identical in all persons. The evidence is that in men the trigger may be dropping levels of testosterone in an individual who has a predisposing avoidant coping style. Childhood issues may certainly be at work in the development of the avoidant coping style. In avoidant coping styles a person attempts to hide or run away from problems rather than working through or solving them.
MLC is characterized by the following:
1- A period of withdrawal from family life
2- Depression over the achievement of life goals
3- Engaging in secretive behaviors: hidden telephones, secret phone calls, secret trips.
4- A desperate belief that one needs to start life over, and that in order to do that one must literally run away: abandon ones family, ones work, ones children. In order to do this they must drive their loved ones away.
5- A belief that ones wife is the cause of failure to achieve life goals, and the belief that if one finds the "right person" one will somehow reach those life goals.
6- A tendency to start an affair with an individual who provides flattering attention, and to become infatuated with that person and see them as the solution to all their problems. This affair partner may or may not be "an old flame" or someone who is several decades younger. Once the period of idealizing the affair partner fades, the person in midlife crisis may move on to a second or third partner seeking each time the one who will be the solution.
7- Frequent lying.
8- A sudden event where the person in midlife crisis verbally attacks their spouse and abandons their family. During this event the person in midlife crisis appears to desire to inflict the maximum amount of pain "you are old", "you are wrinkled" "you are no longer useful to me".
9- Failure to guarantee the well being of the family.
10- Engaging in behaviors which remind one of ones youth. This can take many different forms: alcohol, drug use, excessive exercise.
11- Poor money management and financial judgment. A tendency to purchase things one cannot afford to boost ones self esteem - a car, a yacht, a home.
12- Fear of aging, and attempts to dress, act and associate with individuals much younger than ones age. People in MLC tend to look at themselves in the mirror.
13- Problems with anger and poor judgment regarding consequences of ones actions.
14- A generalized lack of empathy for others, and especially for the family.
When these behaviors are engaged in over many years the person in MLC may not just destroy their famly they may destroy their career and their finances. Certainly the above mentioned behaviors may destroy a marriage.
When a normal marriage breaks down ineffective communication, issues of respect and boundaries, differences over money, intimacy, and work can all be factors. The couple can try to discuss these problems and search for a solution or they may argue. They can go to counseling, or if that doesn't work they can separate for a cooling off period, and if that doesn't help they can divorce. However the 14 factors listed above are not characteristics of a normal marital breakdown.
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LJ, where did you find that list? My H is 14/14. Wow. Guess he is in MLC. ;D
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Yes a great list.
The thing with a MLC marriage breakdown is the nastiness, 2,5 years on and H is still blaming me, still demonising me, still wanting me to suffer or pay for my wrongdoings! A normal breakdown, even one that was awful, we would both be balanced and accepting, yes we both made mistakes etc. my h divorced me for my unreasonable behaviour six weeks before he could have done it based on a two year no fault separation. No blame, no shame. I appealed to him through my solicitor, but he wouldn't wait, his anger and need to be the victim was palpable in those papers. If it's two years and you're happy and settled in a new R you don't feel the need to do that. You just hold your hands up and say, let's do this in the least damaging way possible.
Of course I made mistakes, I was with him since I was 24 to 38, I had two kids, bought a flat, sold a flat, had a career, swapped career for kids ... We both struggled through some stressful times, you name it. But most people I know in long term Rs go through the same thing. Perfection doesn't exist.
Mlc is an issue within the individual, like depression. I suffered with PND, not my Hs fault, but because I was depressed I sometimes felt resentful of him and felt he didn't support me enough. It's depression, it makes you feel bleak, if you're not aware that it's depression talking , certain in Replay MLCers are not aware, you look for external reasons why you feel so unhappy, miserable, desperate, suicidal. Mlc is a huge depression and replay behaviours allow the person to mask that depression for a time. Depression isn't someone else's fault, be it wife, children, mum or dad or granny! It's biological and a huge part of mlc is biological.
I like the FB quote, in a nutshell is it saying people fall out of love, you can't make someone love you. Sure you can't and I guess we accept the impermanence of aspects of life. But if my h simply fell out of love with me and in love with someone else, why make it all so awful? Why say such horrid things? Why blame me? MLC!
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Searching for The Truth. Where did he go? Bump
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I believe many are blindsided because in most cases there is a OP. A spouse meets someone new quite suddenly, falls for them, then of course this new relationship blindsides the LBS. In most cases, I believe the WAS never intended to leave but the other person changes that.
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I could sign up for the list of LongJourney completely ::) It is an excellent list.
Of course, some parts I did not understand/perceive clearly until H left, precisely as described in number 8. Until then I was sure that H was growingly irritated because of work-related depression/burnout. Only afterwards have I come to notice the withdrawal he has been doing for some time. No idea about OP, the possibility exists but not confirmed.
Of course marriages die off for many reasons. But it rings my bells that the spouse changes so completely as a person and makes this BD. I understand that occasionally the abandoning spouse wants to project blame to justify themselves, whether or not MLC. However, at least in my case, the abandoning seems not to have resolved a big thing in the H's life - he seems equally dissatisfied with his life, equally depressed, equally weird. If it was just the marriage or me to be accused of his unfullfilled needs, shouldn't he be happy now? Should not all his problems be resolved? Why does not he seem at all fullfilled yet, being completely free now?
I think it might be useful for you, thetruth, also to read the threads on how LBS ended up figuring out it was MLC. There are similarities, especially the BombDrop-situation and the sudden change of personality of the spouse who left. Things that perhaps do not occur so often with other types of marriage-breakdowns, which are also hurtful and difficult but the causes perhaps can be identified by both spouses in a much clearer way.
Kenai.
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Indeed.
We are searching for The Truth. :)