Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Absolutely Fabulous on June 04, 2015, 10:09:29 AM
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There are a few of us who have had to face really dangerous MLCers that have threatened us with violence and/or death. I myself have been faced with a dangerous situation, and I've had to take the firearms and ammunition out of my house. I now have to rethink how I handle my MLCer. Who else has had situations where you have had to consider your personal safety as well as that of your children and/or pets?
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OMG, My3. No I have not had anything like that happen to me, only in joking terms. Like taking me for a boat ride (knowing I can't swim). ???
I hope you keep yourself safe. You sound afraid.
I know In It has had some violence with her H. Maybe she can help.
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Not afraid, just watching my back. I think that he's more inclined to hurt himself.
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Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. Is he talking strange? :-\
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Hey Thunder. :)
No, but taking the top off the bullet case and leaving it out for me to see was a direct intimidation tactic. He knew that I would see it on the dresser. He's been upping the ante with the controlling behavior. Been using his lawyer for most of it. The hearing was a major blow this week. He had his sister testify that I was an abusive mother. The judge wasn't buying it. He won't look me in the eye, or talk directly to me.
I'm more worried about him harming himself. I unloaded the guns so that if he had been impulsive he would have to take the time to reload them. I stayed out his way while he was packing his things. I didn't feel any hostility from him while he was here, but I wasn't going to push my luck either.
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No here, but...
I can see how EASILY a "love triangle" could turn violent-even deadly.
Oddly enough a few weeks ago I happened to catch one of those TV shows (can't remember which...dateline? deadly women?)...anyway, man and woman separate/divorce after a long term relationship...Man always had hope of reconciliation. In the meantime, the wife IIRC had a few different heterosexual relationships, but eventually landed in a homosexual relationship with another woman. There was some envy over money assets, so the MLCer? had her lover buy some wine and anti-freeze. She replaced some of the wine with anti-freeze and brought it to her x-husband as a "token of good faith" to take advantage of his desire to reconcile.
You can guess the rest.
-T
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OMG TNT! That's really crazy! Why not just tell him not a chance? Now both those crazy b****** are in jail for murder!
I just don't get it. They seem to need this connection to maintain control, but they also need to make sure that we are miserable and suffering. My detachment and distance seem to be the trigger for my H, and make him more clingy. I've been learning about spotting patterns. I've never had to worry about him trying to harm me before, but there's a different paradigm working now.
He was used to winning and maintaining control at all costs, this hearing stripped him of control. To be honest, I don't really know how he's going to react on this one. He may take this time to stop and think, or he may take this time to stop and plot. I really don't know. In the past, the pattern was: get pissed, leave, cool off, and come back. He's never taken anything this far before. There are other people involved that he's listening to now. Egging him on no doubt.
He's: confused, chaotic, angry, hostile, deceptive, and highly invested in keeping this a high stakes drama. I'm not. I made him file. He now has to deal with the foreclosure, and the financial s*** storm that he's left behind. And, back child support as well.
The last time I was in NC for 2 straight weeks, he wanted to reconcile. I doubt he'll go through with the divorce, but I'm ready just in case he does. I'm not taking any chances. He's just too much of a wildcard right now.
He'll be back in 2 weeks for the child support hearing. We'll see what happens then. I'm hopping that he's like the MLCer from RC's blog, and taking time to think. Now that I'm not reacting, I'm praying that that's the case. I'm still going to look our for me and my girls safety no matter what. You never really know what a desperate MLCer is capable of in the end. Getting the guns out was just a self preservation measure. He's a trained Marine, so he doesn't exactly need a weapon to kill me with. I'm not living in fear, and neither or my girls. But, I'm going to be cautious for all of our sakes.
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Violent with me and others.
The ex has handguns last I knew .And honestly? He shouldn't have them.
Stay cautious and away from the crazy
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Is anyone dealing with someone who possibly has a personality disorder that revealed itself during MLC? Is it possible that there were things that were missed, because of other factors and that MLC is just the extension of years of mental illness coming to a head?
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There are many cases of men who, thinking that they have no other alternatives when facing a major setback, kill their children and wife first, then kill themselves. Via poisoning, throwing the children out the apartment window, stabbing and slashing etc. Their rationale is that they do not want to leave their family behind to deal with the fallout from their bad decisions. So, they can even kill out of 'love'.
Having no fear might end up being a deadly mistake. I would say, have another adult present when he is around you and/or the children. You cannot predict crazy. He is not thinking straight. He is no longer who he was.
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Yes to the violence.
As with this whole mess of MLC, there are mental aspects that make themselves known.
For me, my ex has a brother with schizophrenia and another with an anger management problem. Both are drug addicts. His mother has issues with depression.
I think the underlying symptomology was there all alone. The MLC made those symptoms or tendencies worse, exaggerated them if you will.
With J, my BFF, he was treated for bipolar disorder for a while after until he became stabilized in his healing.
I do not think these people per se have a personality disorder fully. They have tendencies surely, at least in the case of my ex. The MLC exaggerated those tendencies. For me with my ex I saw signs that I did not connect at the time in our past history. However, he, for the most part, kept the symptoms under control and very minimal in frequency over our long relationship. Until MLC.
The question for me is sort of a chicken and an egg question. Which came first? Did ex have the symptoms because he grew up in a house where crazy was the norm- ie was his behaviors that I would consider symptoms part of a learned behavior set or real symptoms? In his case, I think he feared being labeled schizophrenic but he also learned behaviors. So environmental is a factor.
Additionally, because he grew up in that sort of home where crazy and violence were the norm, when he did go off into Donkey Land, his go to learned behavior was violence.
For example, at one point he began punching himself in his own face. His brother used to do that before he was medicated. It happened at a time of extreme tension and instability for him in that I was seriously planning to leave him and this was much before MLC. He was caught having an affair and I was walking away from him. He was desperate and scared. I was hurt and very angry and very mean. So was it a symptom of sickness or was it a learned behavior?
So, as with all else in this, there is no definite answer.
Also, mine was a former Marine and well versed in weaponry.
Prior to this he was never violent with me. He became violent only when I was no longer in his control on any level.
MLC exaggerates bad traits is a consideration.
But are some masking a mental illness, some including my ex? It is not out of the realm of possibility.
I also was involved in court proceedings with a man who killed his wife in a fit of MLC rage. His wife was a friend of mine from a support group. He drove her van over her. It happens.
These men are no longer the men who they were previously. Underestimating them is a mistake. Ask me. I will be happy to show you the pictures and xrays to prove my mistake. I had guns. I am no small woman. I had dogs-Rotties and Pits. It was not my first fist fight with a man. I am a big girl who lifted weights for decades. I hold a record for bench press and can lift more than most men I know. I have a black belt. And I underestimated him. I have screws in my face because I underestimated him. My friend is dead because she underestimated her husband. You can visit her at the cemetery to see where underestimating a MLC man gets you.
Be strong. Be smart. Be safe.
Keep writing. The answers are in there somewhere.
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Having no fear might end up being a deadly mistake. I would say, have another adult present when he is around you and/or the children. You cannot predict crazy. He is not thinking straight. He is no longer who he was.
When I say, "I'm not living in fear" I mean it. I'm not going to let this man make me afraid of my own shadow. Now, does that mean that I'm going to act like he's not capable of hurting or killing me and my girls? Hell no, that would make me crazy!
What I am saying is, that I'm going to take all the necessary precautions. When he comes back, I'll have relatives staying with me. The guns are gone, and my neighbors are aware of my situation. I'm also not going to do anything that I know would set him off. Rugged Endurance gave me some great advice on this, and I'm taking it.
I can't predict crazy, and I'm not even going to try. What I am going to do is be vigilant. I don't know what he's capable of, and I hope that he will be able to calm down long enough to think about what's going on. He isn't the man I married, and I'm neither crazy nor stupid enough to trust him as far as I can throw him.
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Well said Girl!
Exactly my point! I don't and never will live in fear but I am not stupid either.
Now about the anger. Something drives these guys to the anger being extreme. Anger is there go to response when hurt and scared, when they feel abandoned and feel as though the world is out of control. I think it is the loss of control and to their whole lives being out of control so they grab on to something and try to squeeze it into control. Sometimes that is us.
My guy was always a very CONTROLLED type. He did everything he was supposed to do and did it perfectly and correctly. No mistakes, no cutting lose.
J used to talk about all the control he had over these women he was seeing. He took pride in that even while the world went down the drains for him. He had two domestic charges. One on his ex wife for threatening to drive his car through the house and another for a fist fight with his OW when she refused to stay home and allow him to go out alone. She bailed him out within a few hours.
Now he has realized he was wrong, that he never really had control over anything. It was a hard lesson to learn.
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Law, have you given much consideration in to the role Marine Corps training probably had on yourself? Mine is a retired Jarhead who, like yours, did everything he was supposed to and did it perfect (or close to it). With him, it's almost like once he retired, all hell broke lose in part because his retirement was forced.
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My h has a diagnosed personality disorder, we knew it before we got married, but could handle it. Ten years he took some anti-depressants (I think, or Anti-psychotics...), but then stopped it. The last 5 years there was more depression, because of struggling with adaption by people (which was something in himself). He never threatened anyone, before BD (october 14). He always should take it out on himself.
Then MLC started. Things like: throwing the sugarpot through the kitchen with this power someone could die if hit by it. Physical punishment of the kids in a way it looked like abuse.
And verbally to me (he didn't dare to hit me, and weapons are forbidden in Europe;)), he said things like: I throw you out of the house, I m gonna hit your pa, a.s.o.
This was all in the beginning of MLC, times of anger at everyone.
People around me where scared for me and the kids. I left one day and stayed atmy brothers house for two nights. But then got back. But I always took the kids safe and wasnot scared myself. I talked my brother out of calling the police a few times.
Now he is back to the calm man, but yes, living in the office upstairs was a good thing so me and the kids could find our safe haven back.
Maybe this kind of violence is not what you mean? I set the boarder by the way, if I notice again this violence, I want him to leave the place. That's the only boarder I made him very clear.
I have a question though.... My H doesn't remember he did does agressive, violent things in the beginning, also not the verbal agressive things. How come? Is that true? He thinks It is in my mind...
Mara
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Of the few cases I've seen where the man kills the woman........ she was living a very public and in your face lifestyle........ Parties, clubbing and posting it all on FB...... The jilted husband/boyfriend feels she is rubbing his nose in her blatant disregard for him.
He acts in the most extreme manner............... ugly, violent.
I saw a show.........? Can't remember the name of it. W and H are volunteers in the community. Deeply madly in love.
Guy turns up murdered in his car......... not an enemy in the world....... deeper investigation shows that W was having and affair with a married man.......... deeper investigation proves that married man had nothing to do with it. It seems W was using a person that lived in a rental property to hire a hitman.............
Involved. Calculated..............
Is this the difference in the violence of the sexes? Is it just my limited sample........
The W in the second story? MLC?
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Hello European Mara!! So nice to speak with you!
Yes, that behavior is a part of the kind of violence we were speaking of here.
If I may attempt to answer your question-
"My H doesn't remember he did does agressive, violent things in the beginning, also not the verbal agressive things. How come? Is that true? He thinks It is in my mind..."
I am not surprised he does not remember doing these things. I think it is very normal. I also believe he is being very honest with you when he says he does not remember. Most MLC people have blank periods in their memories in my experience.
There will likely come a time when he can ALLOW himself to remember those times. Right now he cannot. It would be too much for him to mentally accept it. He is too fragile. He is in denial. He does not want to have been the "bad guy." Instead he wants to think that there is something wrong with you ("It is in my mind") It is easier for him to think that. In that way he does not have to look at himself and see what is wrong.
It does no good to try to convince he that he did those things. It will only serve to make him more stubborn about remembering.
You know what happened. Your family and neighbors and friends know what happened. That is enough for now. Your boundaries are correct and appropriate.
In the future if he heals, you two will be able to discuss these actions openly and honestly. He will need to discuss them rather than sweeping them under the rug and pretending the events never happened.
Violence and anger sometimes come from frustration, from lack of control over the events of life, from fear, from mental instability, from fear of abandonment, from fear of aloneness. Some cry, some get visibly depressed, some become sad victims, others get angry. Some cycle through this list once or many times.
Loving someone with MLC and/or other personality disorders is a hard journey, but it is what we choose when we fell in love with them. There are difficulties in all journeys in life. How we handle those difficulties is out test. Gracefully, strongly, caringly, gently, and lovingly is the hope, to the best of our ability while also loving ourselves.
Best LP
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Hey Medusa!
Yes, I have mulled over the roll of his military life. I can't come to any definite conclusions, but yes, I completely get what you mean about once he retired, all hell broke lose.
It seemed he was lost. He didn't know who he was. He didn't know what to do with himself. The Corp was his identity. I would guess that he never really knew who he was even when he joined. Then for a while he was Mr. Marine. Then it was as though he were making up for all the time he thought he missed out on-partying and having fun and running from life responsibilities. It was as though he did not have to be good and focused any more since the Corp no longer wanted him.
Speaking of that, I think he felt abandoned and unloved by the retirement. There were all these up and coming young men and he felt old.
As to the mindset of being a Marine, in his education, clearly he was taught ways to fight and to kill. I do not think this came as naturally to him perhaps although he never showed it. He was rewarded for strength and for lack of a better term, brutality. Not that the Corp is brutal but lets face it, they don't train these guys to be weak and whimpy. With him, I would suggest he reveled in the praise and such, which was sadly lacking in his childhood. He would have done anything earn praise and promotions which came readily to him.
Without the Corp he just didn't know who he was. Abracadabra a MLC identity spark.
For a while in the beginning he was very angry with the Corp and with all members of the military. I guess he felt less than they were.
How about your H?
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Law, I could have written every single word you did. He was not just am Marine, but a Marine's Marine even though he never had a "sexy" MOS.
When he found out he was passed for his last promotion, he was deflated, angry, and totally lost. Or of the reasons he decided to have an affair was because I didn't get him a gaudy Retired. Marine belt buckle. I thought it was a joke! So when he tried to come home, I bought one for his birthday. He was extremely grateful. Just--MLC weird. Anyway, he definitely felt abandoned, angry, and very used. As dear friends of ours (also Corps) said, the Corps is designed to break your heart. And it is.
Has yours, to your knowledge, embellished his USMC career? Once, in mediation, mine said I don't deserve my share of the retirement because I never "put my ass on the line". His ass deployed to Bahrain and Pakistan. Not once did anyone ever shoot at him. He lived in luxury in both places. So I think now he's one of those jackasses who makes his career out to be far sexier than it was. Which is sad: he was a planner and did a lot of really important things.
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Hey Medusa!
Yes, I have mulled over the roll of his military life. I can't come to any definite conclusions, but yes, I completely get what you mean about once he retired, all hell broke lose.
It seemed he was lost. He didn't know who he was. He didn't know what to do with himself. The Corp was his identity. I would guess that he never really knew who he was even when he joined. Then for a while he was Mr. Marine. Then it was as though he were making up for all the time he thought he missed out on-partying and having fun and running from life responsibilities. It was as though he did not have to be good and focused any more since the Corp no longer wanted him.
Speaking of that, I think he felt abandoned and unloved by the retirement. There were all these up and coming young men and he felt old.
As to the mindset of being a Marine, in his education, clearly he was taught ways to fight and to kill. I do not think this came as naturally to him perhaps although he never showed it. He was rewarded for strength and for lack of a better term, brutality. Not that the Corp is brutal but lets face it, they don't train these guys to be weak and whimpy. With him, I would suggest he reveled in the praise and such, which was sadly lacking in his childhood. He would have done anything earn praise and promotions which came readily to him.
Without the Corp he just didn't know who he was. Abracadabra a MLC identity spark.
For a while in the beginning he was very angry with the Corp and with all members of the military. I guess he felt less than they were.
How about your H?
This the same thing that happened with mine. 21 yrs in and he was lost once he retired. I thought I was the only one going through this.
He had shooting medals and won the Wergman trophy. I don't think he really had much going for him before the Corps, and didn't really think about what he was going to do after.
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Yes he has embellished his career history sadly. Suddenly he has become one of those who was deployed everywhere there was danger. Sometimes he apparently managed to be in two dangerous locations at the same time virtually.
Mine said word for word what yours did-that I never put myself on the line so I didn't deserve any of his retirement. He portrays himself as this under appreciated hero who never received praise or appreciation. He likens himself to the John Lennon song about working class hero's which is about as far from the truth as he could get being that he has never been working class anything, nor has he struggled to survive. For heaven's sake he is a doctor whose mother hired someone to specially do his laundry for him.
Yes, mine too cannot see the value in his real service. Instead he tries to make his service sexier than any war movie. He so greatly wishes he were a tv style hero. That is what his young girl believes, that he is a hero abused and taken advantage of by the world. It's why he had to trade me in-he couldn't pretend to be a knight in shining armour when I knew the truth, that he is just a man.
I'm familiar with the gaudy belt buckles as well! I purchased the one mine was sure he needed when he came home. The trip to France was not enough. My sin at one time was that I failed to read his mind and know that the buckle could have saved my marriage at one time but when I got it for him it was too little too late.
At the time he was lucky I didn't fasten it around his neck while holding up his pants!
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Welcome to the club 3!
You're never alone here!
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I have no idea what it is like to be married to a person from the military.
I do know that my s28 was in Ramadi at the same time Chris Kyle was there. He did get involved with combat......
However...... Even combat isn't enough when you are in the military. Because. Somebody has seen more...... somebody has been a bigger hero.........
He went into the Army at 18 and by 19 he was in Ramadi... He isn't anywhere near the same person. Depression. Heavy. Unhappy.
Talks violence but......... he hasn't followed through on any of it..
Tries to have fun and be carefree, he just can't pull it off anymore.
I don't know if the military leads to violence. PTSD, depression, inability to interact? Definitely
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I forgot to add.
His M went into MLC at the same time.
Coincidence?
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Law, this is absolutely fascinating! I don't know how my much mine has embellished, but I wouldn't be shocked to some day find out that instead of guiding Operation Anaconda from Bahrain, he was boots on the ground. And who knows what else. Now I really, really want to know!
Mine is working class and has said that he doesn't deserve all the good things he has now. He travels the world for his job. But he certainly didn't have to struggle when he was young. Until the day he moved out, his mother had a hot breakfast waiting for him on the table every morning.
Ohh the belt buckle. It could have saved my marriage, too. If only I had known and been a mind reader. At least I fixed that particular screw-up so he can't hold it against me!
I suspect for both of ours, they have big-time hero complexes, which is where OW works her way in. OW is only a few years younger than me, but she sounded pretty messed up, and I have little doubt he has lied through his teeth to her about--everything.
Yours is moved out, correct? Assuming so, did he abandon his love-me wall? The Mamaluke is still hanging on my wall...
3, welcome to the newest club. How much of this is ringing true for you?
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Please so not think that domestic homicide is an isolated event. It is not. I see it firsthand every single day in my line of work. Domestic homicide happens every day and not every case is spread across the news channel. There are rarely signs or "strange" behavior leading up to such brutality. I have see cases where the perpetrator was enjoyed a nice lunch with his family and didn't have a care in the world, to killing his wife and their children and hauling them around in the trunk of his car before killing himself. I have also seen cases in which a small trivial word, or gesture was the cause of a man or a woman "snapping". We are never able to predict abnormal criminal behavior accurately. Please don't assume it cannot happen to you or it doesn't happen...it does. and it can happen to you. Please remember that his loss of control is a cognitive trigger that often leads to criminal thinking....such as " if I can;t have her...nobody will...or "if I can't see my kids everyday...nobody will"....or " we can all be together if we dies together"....believe me..it happens all the time..please be safe and protect yourself and your children. We can never be sure of how a chemically or emotionally unbalanced human being can behave. We never know what the final straw could be or when the glue comes loose...have a safety plan in place....please be safe and aware. I cringed when I read this. I see domestic homicide up close every single day....it happens. It is real. Don't take any chances...not even one. It's not worth the risk.
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... he said things like: I throw you out of the house, I m gonna hit your pa, a.s.o.
This was all in the beginning of MLC, times of anger at everyone.
Mr J did the same at the beginning of MLC. And Tristana's husband is also showing some super anger, taking off the internet modem, etc.
My H doesn't remember he did does agressive, violent things in the beginning, also not the verbal agressive things. How come? Is that true? He thinks It is in my mind...
It is true. They do not remember. Mr J has no recollection of the things he did or said. And he did some real nasty ones. The only thing he said when, once, I told him what he have done and said was "I don't remember it, but it you say I did it, I believe you. Their minds forget.
Like you I live in Europe, so weapons are allowed. But a very angry man does not need a gun. His hands, things that can be found in the house, tools, anything will do.
M3G, you don't need to live in fear, but you need to be very careful and to protect yourself and the kids.
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This has been a really scary time. I'm not sure what he's going to do. Rugged did tell me to make sure he doesn't feel like he's lost me forever. This whole MLC experience has fundamentally changed me and my kids. My kids and I have learned what real strength is.
He told the kids before he left: I wish things had been different, I wanted the whole family to move together, but your Mom wanted something different.
He blames me still. My MD could tell that he regretted what was happening. He just can't seem to look at himself and his part in this. I think that he may have hit rock bottom, but this is new territory. I just hope that he's starting to think now. But, he's a jarhead, and Marines are notorious for being stubborn and prideful.
I did tell him that when he hit rock bottom ( this was before the hearing ) that I would be there for him, and that I wouldn't kick him when he was down. I don't know if that will make a difference, but one can always hope.
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M3G,
The reason I said that is because he may feel he is out of options.........
If he thinks he has done something that can never be fixed....... He may get desperate.
The worst thing anyone can do is something that cannot be fixed. It puts a finality to it in their brain.
You have the right approach to this. You've done everything perfect to this point.
All MLCer's will paint themselves into a corner. Let him know that he can walk on the wet paint.
Let him have an out to all of this.
It is a fine line. You cannot patronize him....... and still allow him to fix what he has done.
This is JMO but........ it is a strong opinion
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M3G,
The reason I said that is because he may feel he is out of options.........
If he thinks he has done something that can never be fixed....... He may get desperate.
The worst thing anyone can do is something that cannot be fixed. It puts a finality to it in their brain.
You have the right approach to this. You've done everything perfect to this point.
All MLCer's will paint themselves into a corner. Let him know that he can walk on the wet paint.
Let him have an out to all of this.
It is a fine line. You cannot patronize him....... and still allow him to fix what he has done.
This is JMO but........ it is a strong opinion
That line was confusing to me. I liked the rest of it
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wow! ..this is interesting to me . Prior to my husband leaving for the land of oz to visit the wicked OW of the west , he was "rock solid ", rarely ( maybe never ) lost his temper , had himself under tight tight control all of the time. Even when he SHOULD have been angry and he LOOKED angry .. he would totally deny ( in a flat monotone voice) that he was the least bit angry. It was crazy !He denied almost every emotion that there is . At bomb drop everything about him changed . I swear his eyes belonged to someone else ( my other got the chills ) his arrogant posture was different , he sat in a chair all sprawled out like a defiant 15 year old , he strutted all different .. his "aura" was scary. My intuition went on high alert and I was very very reluctant to leave any of my kids or grandkids alone with him ... even to the backyard. He too is trained military, muscle bound construction, football, wrestling star .. blah blah all " he man. He was enraged by a new guy they hired at his work .. NEVER have I seen him unable to get along with someone as he very well liked and personable , But he hated this guy with a passion. My husband was the "alpha dog " at work, the "trouble shooter ", the guy who will get the job done , the hero and the best on the best . It was his identity and where many of his needs for acknowledgement, admiration, validation and pride were met . Then comes "Howard" that is the new up and coming alpha dog in a highly energized younger man body. Gives my husband a run for position number 1 and this is where I 1st saw absolute rage that he has to work with this ass%ole etc etc . Months I listened to that spewing rage .. Howard put my husband into MLC ( kidding of course, but something cracked ). I became very cautious around my husband as I saw total out of control rage and frustration at all times . He grabbed me at BD and pushed me up against the post on the deck and said " do not f-ing push me ". NEVER EVER has he touched me or ever said the f-word at me . He spit all over my glasses he was so enraged . He trapped my in the laundry room and would not let me out and he grabbed my little granddaughter off her feet. The last straw was when my youngest dauhters truck broke down and he had to go rescue her . He told her ( on the side of the highway ) to drive his f-ing truck back . You need a ladder to get into his huge truck and she was afraid to drive it on the expressways thru Toronto etc. So she said that she could not..she was afraid to. He had a stroke, told her to f-ing grow up , drive the f-ing truck etc . Horrified , she called me bawling her eyes out asking me " what is wrong with him mom??". I told her to get her purse out of her vehicle and start walking ( she could see a plaza) and do not talk, just walk away . So she did . I called him and told him I will call the police in 5 seconds if you dare try to force her to drive that truck . I kicked him out he next day . I do remember sitting well back from the table on the deck because I was worried he was going to flip it or smash it . We were afraid and it was getting worse. He does not remember things he did or said either . NO recall at all , is so shocking. His boss told me that my husband had such a rage attack at work that he was glad there was a desk between them. I could not believe it was the same person I have known for over 30 years .MY husband was never ever happy or content or settled during his entire period .. he was someone trying to shed his own skin in rage .So, his "OW" was certainly not making enough of a difference that he was "happy ". And , in a rage at "Howard" he quit his job. Still hard to acceot or belive he would ever ever quit a job like that .We were becoming more nervous and stressed out day after day ... It was better ( if there is such a thing ) after he was out of the house I assume that he did not rant and rage at his " OW hag".. she must have gotten his good side. The scars will take a log time to heal.
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I'm pretty sure the ex is too much of a coward to kill himself..and he's too afraid of going to jail if he hurt or killed someone.
However sometimes it makes me wonder when he finally wakes up and realizes he will lose his entire family too. His mother will pass away and I am hoping SOON the youngest one leaves his house.The oldest has already left.
Makes me a little anxious about someone this unbalanced and "nothing left to lose"
And I do believe he has a mental illness. He has a NPD that was magnified by the MLC.
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MLC definitely seems to bring about mental illness. They aren't in their right minds. Mine has been trying to get me diagnosed with BPD for years to no avail. It's part of the reason for me asking for the psychological evaluation. I think that not only is he a Borderline, but he has Avoidance Personality Disorder as well.
Either way, they aren't rational, logical, or realistic to say the least. I wasn't worried about him being violent, until I saw the top to bullet the case ( the shotgun shells are in paper boxes, the handgun bullets are in plastic cases ) out on the dresser. Man, I'm so glad that I unloaded the hand/shot guns. Who knows what state of mind he was in at that point. It's scary just thinking about it. Because he's been impulsive in the past, it wasn't a stretch for him to do something without thinking and then regretting it later.
I've been praying that he doesn't hurt himself or anyone else. He's unstable that's for sure. He really thought that he was going to win in court. Now that's delusion for you. I'm sure the whole thing was meant to embarrass and humiliate me. It backfired. He literally fled from the courtroom, and his attorney left the court house like she was fleeing for her life. Welcome back to the real world, we've missed you.
As for what In It says about mental illness, I think that she's spot on.
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We may appear to be either bi polar or whatever the diagnoses is.
I'd have to say that might be how I appeared as I tried to communicate or get anything through to him. Agreeing with him kept some peace.
My resentment of the fact that he was unwilling to see anything other than what he wanted ran very deep.
Screaming at him or ignoring him got to be the daily communication with him. It was exhausting to say the least.
They DO NOT LISTEN because they know everything.
Being narccistically abused IMHO leaves you with being unheard if you are unwilling to accept their warped sense of reality.
If you go along with them everything is just hunky dory.
Give an @$$hole money? And he's pretty much God.
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I believe that in their MLC craziness, they do think we are the ones with mental illness. Mine called me a "crazy b!tch" to my face, once, and I shot back that if I was, his flaunting of his affair made me so.
Yes, I was crazy. I became emotionally unstable for awhile because I was living in a kind of hell no one should ever have to experience. He didn't care except that he wanted "normalcy"--something that wasn't going to happen when he was doing the crap he was doing. It wasn't until he moved out that my emotions finally stabilized. But I don't think he was able to fully recognize his role in what I became.
In It, I agree with your assessment of narcissistic abuse and what it does to us. We are not heard and we deserve to be heard. Is it any wonder some of us go a bit nuts?
3, I pray yours doesn't do anything stupid. They have such grandiose feeling of entitlement that when those don't come to fruition, they do get weird, and that can be scary. You are being caution and safe--that's the most important thing right now!
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Exactly they refuse to LISTEN then point the finger at us that we're nuts...really?
They don't have to do what we are telling them. And in his case he would do just the opposite. So I knew I could not express any needs or he'd do the exact opposite.
How in the hell is there ever going to be a healthy relationship when some significant other knows what you need then REFUSES to do it? I'm not talking about sex here I'm talking about day to day life.
They could use to open up their minds just a little bit to someone else's view of something.
It could start as simply as...How was YOUR day? And actually be interested!
But he never asked me that. The firetrucking world revolved around him.
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@LP
Nice to speak to you too! :)
Thank you for your answer to my question!
I was thinking now: My H said about a month ago that he wants to move on alone. My son asked why. He said: because your mom with NOreason left with you kids for two days.
Now everyone thinks I'm bad.
Curious: he didn't remember his behaviour from that time, my son did....he said: she had to protect us.
He also doesn t remember times after that where we had christmas together, and other events, and even spent the night together. Only remember me for no reason leaving him.
I have no experiennce with militaries.
Mara
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I have a good example of this.
when the girls were little I was driving a huge black old Bronco.
Summer was coming. It had no AC. and the windows motors were shot and would not roll down.It was diffucult to go anywhere in the summer heat with an old truck like that.
I found a car locally the girls and I practically fell downstairs trying to get out of the house..we were so excited to go drive it.
He did buy it (he was driving a brand new car) it was 1500.00
I told him.how excited the girls and I were.His response?
"I think I neglected my family"
Ya think???? I thought that might be the start of someone more thoughtful...nope that didn't sink in either.
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It's a little more dangerous for us who have spouses that are trained to kill. We have to walk a fine line. You never know what's going to set them off. They are quick to call us names, and use threatening moves and words.
He was quick call me crazy when we fought, that seems to be a common theme.
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I can imagine it is quite a fine line.I'm happy I didn't get involved with someone who might be ex special ops etc.
When I went to Domestic Violence to set it up to report him if he came near me again I told the woman there" He's convinced I'm crazy. He's brainwashed the kids"
She waved her hand in the air in a dismissive fashion and said. "They ALL say that"
So these men seem to have a similar mind frame. We HAVE to be the crazy ones because it couldn't possibly be THEM.
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They seem to think that it's all about them, and that if that means that violence will get them what they want, then so be it. It doesn't matter if they hurt us emotionally or physically, as long as they get what they want.
I'm just making sure that I'm not contributing to his desperation.
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M3G,
It's all ugly.
Unfortunately. You have yet another element to be aware of.
My gut says this is going to turn out okay for you. I'm hoping I an right on this.
Pulling for you
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M3G,
It's all ugly.
Unfortunately. You have yet another element to be aware of.
My gut says this is going to turn out okay for you. I'm hoping I an right on this.
Pulling for you
Thanks
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Just stay aware and notify the authorities of his possible behaviors if you see him. Stalking etc..
I read the time it is the most dangerous for a woman is when she is leaving.
In your case.... he's lost control of what is going on.
That's what I was doing after he pretty much kicked me out. I came back to get my personal papers and clothes and see the girls if they were there.
The ex lost control of the situation after he called the troopers to have me removed from the property. He saw I wasn't afraid I was waiting for the troopers to show up.
That's when he shoved me and I hit the pavement.
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In it, man I'm glad you're away from that guy. Mine left me, so I'm hoping that he isn't twisting this around too much.
He's been stalking me for years already: reading my emails, my Messaging on FB, listening in on my phone calls, checking my cell phone, constant calls when I left the house, etc... So stalking wouldn't be something new. That was the being of MLC before BD.
I noticed that while he was here, he was getting constant texts. I don't know if there's an OW. But if there is, he's getting a taste of his own medicine.
He's filed for the divorce, and I'm not fighting him on it. I'm not going to try to stop it at this point either. He claims he wishes that things were different. Well, he's the one in control of this roller coaster, I'm not bailing him out on this one. Either he wants to stay married, or he wants to walk. If he walks, he suffers the consequences all on his own.
He did me a favor by not putting my name on the house, and having all the bills in his name: I get to walk away Scott free. And, I will walk away without any regrets at this point.
I really don't know which way he's going to go on this one. Will he go forward with the divorce, and things get uglier? Or, will he put the reins on it when he sees how much it will cost him? If he were in his right mind ( and not listening to that dysfunctional family and "friends" of his ), we wouldn't be here.
I'm trying to make sure that he doesn't feel desperate. It's a fine line. Not knowing what's going on in his head is unnerving. With so much hostility and anger towards me, monster has been in control since this began. I've seen glimpses of prisoner, but not enough to make me think that he's even close to hitting rock bottom.
Rugged, and any other men on this thread, do you think that the defeat in court has him thinking finally? Or, will this cause him to try more desperate acts?
Male input is really appreciated on this one.
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I'm pretty sure this one is afraid of authorities. Anything that would have to do with court or anything else.
As long as he leaves you alone..you should be ok. He sticks his head out of the hole?
Call someone- file an incident report even if nothing can be done about it.
Tell me why would you consider staying married if you may have to live in fear of him?
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Not male but going to input, anyway.
I don't think we can predict what is going to happen regarding the defeat in court. It may send him to his bottom and it may not.
While I understand you not wanting him to feel desperate, 3, you aren't in control of that. Like you said, you're walking a fine line because his monster is out of control. But, I also think they need to reach a point of desperation so they do hit bottom. And therein lies the difficulty--especially for you. You don't know if he's going to do something unbelievably stupid.
They want to be in control, and things have to completely spin out of control before they can hit bottom. They have to lose everything.
You have no way of knowing what he's going to do. I stopped trying to figure it out with mine: he generally winds up doing the exact opposite of what I would predict, anyway. So step and and keep yourself and your girls safe.
I agree with In It as far as yours being afraid of the authorities. Why? Because you mentioned to me that he's so concerned about image. That right there tells me he probably won't do something stupid. He probably doesn't want his name splashed all over the newspapers. Could be wrong, but you know how the Corps in stills that kind of pride in them. Hopefully he will rely on that aspect of his training.
I'm still blown away by the fact that both of ours screwed up so much on the refinance that they didn't out our names on the mortgage. :)
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Medusa, I know right? It's like they're just asking to file bankruptcy. Call me later, I might be able to help you with your employment sitch.
In it, I'm not afraid of my H. He's been showing some glimpses of his core self. I still love my H. Medusa can tell you, Marines are a breed all their own. That pride/ego thing is really something to behold. I'm not sure what he'll do at this point. In the past he backed down, that was the pattern. I really don't know what's going on, and I've given up trying to figure it out.
I am going to assume that he's going to go through with the divorce. I'm preparing myself for it. We'll still have to go through mediation, or settle. I hold the cards on that one, Thank God. I'm not going to do anything at this point. I'm just letting him run amok throughout all of this. S*** it's all I can do. If he hadn't lost his f****** mind this wouldn't have happened.
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;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I know the ex lost his job . Well a position actually, by trying to strangle his supervisor years ago. I went right passed that one. ::)
Angry men are dangerous.
Then they lay it off on us..that we're nuts. I must have been to have anything to do with him or even think he would mellow or mature with age.
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In in, like I've said before you're amazing. To have survived someone like that, and stay sane?
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I'm probably not the best man to give perspective, but I am coming up on a year since filing for D (I felt I HAD to-she left the state and if I didn't I would have to be driving two states away for court appearances for her D that she was going to file).
Anyway, I don't think its really a man vs woman thing here-its a mindset.
No disrespect to the ladies, but the main reason our D is taking so long is I am fighting for custody of the kids. Don't care about assets (though I have no real desire to make myself poor).
What do I expect to come of this? I expect to lose. I really do. Cards are stacked in the woman's favor in court. But the one thing I will win is a clear conscious. So even if the judge gives her everything she wants, and custody of D5, I won't be taking my anger out on her, as I expect this to happen. I will be okay no matter what.
I was talking to a fellow HS member the other day, and if you don't believe the women are favored in court around here, just google Mary Winkler.
-T
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When I first filed, my lawyer made a really interesting comment to me. He said that one of the problems he sees with divorce is that the law attempts remove all emotion and in doing that becomes unable to address many aspects of divorce. That, he believes, is a big issue in no-fault divorces. Even in situations like mine, the law doesn't care that I was emotionally abused. Had physical abuse occurred, things would be very different.
T--to your point that females are favored over males, I do not necessarily disagree. Unfortunately, it seems that archaic beliefs that women are somehow better parents and, therefore deserve custody, does still seem rife. It's Similar to my complaint on my thread the other day about spousal support--why is it perfectly fine for him to live with someone eel while I may one day have to make a choice between receiving the support I deserve not because I can't support myself but because I worked equally to build what we have. The law, however, remains archaic and believes that if I am to meet someone else and either get married or love with that person, I forfeit the support. So as a woman, my state effectively makes it more difficult (although not impossible) for me to move forward with that aspect of my life. Is that any more or less fair than females being favored over males I'm custody situations?
It seems to me to be a one-size-fits-all attitude that winds up screwing people. I equate them in some ways with zero tolerance laws/policies: common sense has been removed.
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Medusa's right TNT, it's not fair all the way around. We all have a loss no matter how you look at it.
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Yep loss and pain.
My midlife transition has been how to deal with loss.I thought at one point I was going to dehydrate and not ever be able to cry again.So I keep myself hydrated and cry.I let myself cry a lot.It's a great stress reliever.
Surround yourself with people who find nothing wrong with it.
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Hey Medusa!
I still have everything from awards on up. He walked away with nothing from that time. No pictures, nothing. When he came back the one time he would not even go into the room with the full wall display. He has never even asked for me to send those things to him or elsewhere. It is as though he can't face them. Heck, I don't think he deserves them either as he is am embarrassment to the USMC currently. Once I asked him what various people he respected and called his mentors would say about his current behavior. He replied with silence and tears.
Well he walked away without much else from then either. He left his birth certificate, diplomas, financial records, clothes, furniture, pictures everything. He never even changed some of our bank accounts from both our names.
Anyhow, if he cannot be proud of his service I will be and I will keep all those things safe. I am proud to have been a military wife. In my mind we served and sacrificed together in the ways asked of us at the time.
Personally I think it is a bit of wishful thinking in my case and many others to think he left things as a place holder of sorts. I think it is more likely that he ran from those things that evoked memories of the time when he was proud of himself and knew who he was and had a mission in life. Without those thongs he can 're write his life in any way he wants. No evidence is there to the contrary.
I just remembered another thing from our discussion about embellishing their records. My dad was also a military man. He tells stories all the time. Well I had full access to my ex's emails to OW. I remember reading one in which he was detailing a specific event in Lebanon. I thought I don't remember this but I was pretty new to MLC at the time and stressed and still wondering if I was the crazy one. So I mentioned it to my mother. She asked me why in the world my ex was talking about dad to his new girl.
I asked pop and sure enough it was one of his stories ex was taking credit for. That's when I knew I wasn't the crazy one for certain!
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Mine took both of his Embassy flags from the 2 countries we were stationed. I guess the stories at the bar will be interesting. We actually know one of Chris Kyle's cousins. He was a sniper in the Corps too ( our girls swim together ), he'll probably upgrade that to knowing him personally.
He left his promotion to MSgt certificate, but took one set of dress blues and his wooden chest that he got for retiring. Left his coins, his trinkets and all of his glasses from the balls. That's about it. He left a lot of stuff. Mine is really delusional, and he hasn't paid many of the bills that he's left behind here where the kids and I live.
I guess he thought that he could leave it all behind. He's so much in debt that he'll have to file bankruptcy just to be able to survive. Thank God my name isn't attached to much. Compared to him, my debt is not only doable, but will be easy to pay off within in months if I do it right. I feel sorry for him, when reality hits... It's going to hit him all at once.
I really don't know what to think, but I've been offered a job back home that I'm taking. It's a fresh start. I'm living my life like he's not coming back for sure. He couldn't even look at me or talk to me the day after the hearing. It was a truly humiliating and embarrassing experience for him. He and his sister should have been more humble ( I think she's not all there as well, seems to run in the family ), it would gone better for him if they had been. The judge looked pissed the entire time both were on the stand.
I had a discussion with him about 3 years back when he retired. I told him that maybe what he was going through was because he didn't know how to be anything other than a Marine. He agreed at the time. I guess that was a sign that he was lost, and we both missed it.
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Law, I am completely with you in believing that they abandon their USMC history because they know the Corps wouldn't be proud of them. Mine even left the very expensive bottle of scotch I gave him at his retirement. That is the one thing I don't leave for him when I move out. I earned that bottle just as much as he did!
I think their abandonment of their military career is twofold. Agree that a large part of that is shame and knowing they don't deserve to be called a Marine. When I once questioned mine about why he left his stuff, he said it was because he didn't want to leave empty walls. I knew when he said it he was lying.
But...I also do believe on some level they leave their things as an anchor, essentially wanting us to protect what they once had. I say this because when mine moved out, he took some of his clothes, his stereo, his speakers, two of our old patio chairs, his tool belt, some old dishes, one dish towel, one rag, his favorite towels, and a bottle of ibuprofen. I've thought many times that it's especially weird he abandoned his Mamaluke sword: I was stunned to see it when I came home after he moved. But there is one other thing he took I've always been very, very curious about: a carpet he bought (for me) when he was deployed in Pakistan. Why that? What is the significance? I think I might have figured that one out: during that deployment, he all of a sudden was feeling me about some actress he had met and had dinner with. She had body guards who creeped him out. Every antenna went up, and I believe he had a fling with this woman. I think the carpet represents that. I think it serves as a metaphor of his shame of cheating on me while he was deployed and I was here dealing with a daughter who was getting in all kinds of trouble. I also think it is metaphorical of the Corps because he found out when he was in Pakistan that he had been passed over and was being forced into retirement. Whenever he looks at it, he sees those two things. More interesting about it? That carpet was the biggest one we had. There were a total of 6. He could have taken any of them.
Since I will be making a geographic move (I hope), I will not take his things with me. The way things are working out, I will be gone before he comes to get any of his stuff. But like you, Law! I am proud of our service, and there may be more than a bottle of scotch that winds up coming along to be treasured because it was an important part of my life.
3, military or not, I think all of them do believe they can leave their old life behind, and that includes their things. But, as I said in my earlier post, the threads are so tied together, it's almost impossible to sort any of them out. This is something he said quite a few times to me before he moved out. He was trying, very hard, to disentangle everything and couldn't.
My head is gonna be swirling on this subject for awhile!
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Medusa, I hear you on the head swirling part. I doubt that your husband had a fling with the actress, that sounds like a fantasy made up in his head. IMHO. Think about it. He gave you the rug, and then took it with him? Sounds like a piece of you he was taking with him, not her. Out of all the ones in the house, the one he brought to you especially? Something just doesn't add up there.
When mine came to visit at Christmas, he took one of our wedding pictures. This, after he declared he had moved on and wanted a divorce. Hmmm... They are a strange breed.
Mine took a lot of his Corps stuff with him this time around, glad he did. I don't want it. He blamed all of our problems on the Corps before MLC, then on me after. It was wild. I put up with a lot of, "If we wanted you to have a family, we'd have issued you one." bulls***. I won't miss that life, I'm proud of our service. But, if I had to do it all over again? I would never have married a Marine.
I do agree with you on the anchoring. That word keeps coming up. He's tried to keep us literally trapped in this house and this town. H's favorite type of abuse: financial. Whenever I held a job that made too much money ( read, offered me some independence ), he had a fit.
He put my job down, wouldn't help me with the kids or the house, wouldn't pick up the slack for homeschool,etc... You name it, he used every form of sabotage you can think of to keep me from being able to have the money to level the playing field in the marriage. This coming from someone who told the judge at the hearing that I wouldn't get a job. And, that that was a source of contention in the marriage. Really?
Mine actually tried to force me to stay in the state. The judge told him during the hearing that he couldn't do that, because he had left the state and been gone for 18 months. It must be really nice to live in Lala land.
At any rate, I think mine is in the midst of an emotional affair. He just go his own apartment, so I guess he's going to take it to the next level. Still lying to me about it. I guess once it's out in the open... Well, RC says it won't last. I feel sorry for whoever it is, he's not good with excepting responsibility for much. Plus, the financial burden is going to be a b**** and a half. My lawyer is going to go after the one thing he seems to care about the most right now: the money. No matter what, he's not getting out of his financial responsibilities to me, or my girls.
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Law, How have things been for you lately? You have a lot of powerful insight.
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Hi 3,
I'm just an old dog at this, nothing special, but thank you.
I have a big hearing coming Wednesday that is a career maker so I'm prepping for that. It might work my way but if it doesn't I will just find another way to get there! This would be the dream realized that my ex and I shared many years ago and that I have gone forward with without him. Always make your dreams come true.
I went to a few sales and bought some pretty cool things! Antiques and taxidermy and fossils and such. My bff and I have quite the little business going selling some of that stuff.
I've joined a new gym and am buried in landscaping projects and gardening as well as spending time with my dogs that I love very much. Life is good.
Best, LP
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Glad to hear it. I'm going to be packing all week. I plan to be out of the house by Saturday. Just taking what we need for now. I'm planning on a having an estate sale soon too. He told his lawyer that he didn't want me to sell anything in the house. The last vestige of control I guess.
His mail is still coming to the house. Why? I don't know. So is my oldest. It's like they both seem to think that someday they'll be coming back to a house that's going to foreclosed on next month. That's when the for sale sign apparently is going up. Don't know anymore than that.
I wonder why our MLCers think that they can just reinvent a life right out of thin air? I know that it's a form of illness. Definitely the Narcissist trying to feel real. I haven't heard from mind since the day he left. I'm hoping that that's a good thing. No more monster. Maybe now that he has his own place, he can concentrate on whoever he's with. At any rate, I'll be able to finally have some peace.
I also haven't heard anything from my lawyer for now. I don't know if that's good or bad. I've heard that MLCers' are known for slowing down the divorce process. Mine is holding onto the money with such a tight fist, that I'm sure his hand is bleeding.