Midlife Crisis: Support for Left Behind Spouses
Archives => Archived Topics => Topic started by: Roma on August 02, 2016, 04:53:58 AM
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What are ways to start to rebuild trust after an A suspected, fantasy, EA or PA w/ your MLCer, without putting any pressure on them? What are ways to not feel like it might happen again?
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El, that's HIS job, not yours.
He has to gain your trust again. He broke it, let him fix it.
There is no way you can be sure he won't do it again.
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Very true Thunder yet all I was asking if anyone might know of any trust building exercises. And how to re gain trust again?
I remember the first RCR articles I read, she had us self hypnotize and other strategies to not even think of the infidelity. That was great yet it had us to just avoid the issue.
What about when they come out of this and come back to us? What mind frame have others used and had to get to and how to trust again?
A person has to work through a lot to get to the point of allowing the MLCer back in their heart. I was asking what ways did they do that?
I know for me, trust doesn't come easy.
I'm seeing a lot of new purple icons, which is great! I'm curious what others are doing to get to the point of trusting once again? Or if anyone has any ideas or strategies from articles or sites?
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Trust Actions not words.
I think the point is to have boundaries that can not be broken.
Trust but Verify!
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Right, OP.
Also I think if the MLCer comes back, is remorseful and truly tries to make amends and is open about everything, part of it is just time and having faith in what they are doing. No on can ever be 100% certain.
I don't think there is any certain thing you can do to gain your trust back. jmho
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Attaching... it's too early in my journey to even know what to do since the EA was happening under my nose to begin with. I like OP's response about trust actions not words.
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I have thought about this......
I think the work we do on ourselves would be the test and challenge within us as to whether we can or are able to Trust again. Yes, I agree, H or W has work to do too, but without first being able to trust again within inside yourself and be strong inside, there won't be much of a relationship. It is not only up to the MLCer. They definitely need to make strong effort, but do you trust in yourself again to be able to trust.???
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I agree Hero! Couldn't have said it better myself. I've been trying to find articles on helping yourself be able to trust again, yet haven't had much luck. Been pretty busy and I've got to get ready for work soon, so I'll try again later or even try to find something from work since. If I find something I'll post it when I return later tonight.
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I like this little phrase:
Trust = Consistency + Honesty + Time
First, I think we have to be witnessing CONSISTENCY in the MLC'ers actions. We as LBS's have to be prepared to accept that in reconnection/reconciliation there will be some teething problems and TRUST OURSELVES that we can and will deal with them as they come up. If we get to the reconciliation stage there would need to be clear boundaries and deal breakers put in place.
There would need to be HONESTY with ourselves, and each other. I think we would recognise dishonesty from them fairly quickly the second time around because we would be approaching things with the rose coloured glasses off and we know what they are capable of.
Last, we have to accept that trusting them again will take TIME - lots of time. We also have to be realistic and accept that we may never trust them unreservedly again, but we can TRUST OURSELVES.
Trusting ourselves comes from knowing we can handle what they do, not in being able to predict what they do. The amount we trust depends on how strong we are and knowing that we can handle our MLC'ers imperfections. We have to decide that we will be ok no matter what happens. That we've been through it before, and if we need to we will get through it again and be ok. We have to back ourselves first, not them.
I hope that makes sense.
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Elegance,
The lighthouse is so right. Consistency, that's the key. When my husband started letting me know that he wanted our marriage, I told him that he needed to live in a glass house. That I would not tolerate anymore lies, half truths. That is was his job to show that I could trust him, and at that point I didn't.
With that being said, I did my best to show that I was willing to give it some time. Their so secretive and dishonest I'm sure its hard to just stop the bad behavior. I saw slowly before he told me he wanted our marriage small things. He left his phone out instead of hiding it. He would call at let me know when he was leaving work, or who he went to lunch with.
He stays at his dad's house 2 nights a week because of the commute. Did it long before MLC, so that was a big one for me. But, since I had worked really hard on me, and had let go of his bad behavior, it was easier.
When he did leave his phone out, or tell me who was calling or who he was texting, I didn't overreact, I just said that I appreciated it. THEN LET IT GO. I told him what I would and wouldn't be OK with but didn't beat it into his head. I had to show him that I was willing to "wait and see" his trying to change.
When he did slip, and it was never anything major, I would just tell him that whatever it was made me uncomfortable. The major thing, in my opinion is, there's going to be times when WE THINK their up to something. I did my best not to jump to conclusions because in the past when I did that I was always wrong. At this point I had to get to know him all over again because the man I loved hadn't been there for years. So I had to just watch and keep my mouth shut. I had to let him know that I wasn't going to kick his butt over anything I thought wasn't right. I trusted my gut, always.
I had to make sure he felt like I knew he was trying without Stroking him all the time. That was rough for me. Tell him I noticed things that he was doing to try, and let him know when he did something that made me uncomfortable without him thinking that I was attacking him.
They really are a hot mess still when they want to reconnect, they know we don't trust them and that we aren't the same person. He really didn't know me either. I never reminded him of what he did to me, to us. He knew. One time when he left the tunnel, I asked him, do you have any idea what you've done to me? He looked at me and said, yes I live with that everyday. For the first time in all this mess, I saw the look on his face and knew he was in pain because of it. So, from that point on, I had to let him know, by my actions that I was willing to forgive him. Now forgetting is something else, that I will never do. But as time goes by memories fade.
I made him feel safe with me. When they come back, they are beaten. They're gone through some things that most of us will never fully understand. Heck, he tells me all the time, I was in a fog. I believe him. He almost lost his family, he knows that. No reason for me to rub it in his face.
And the lighthouse is right, we know the signs. Honesty, trust, it's not going to come back in a day, week, month. Be patient. Hopefully you've made the changes that will make you more capable to set your boundaries, and stand by them. He still gets a little impatient with the fact that I'm still setting back, watching. That I don't just throw myself at his feet in gratitude. I just go up to him, hug him and say I have to do this in my own time. I didn't rush you so don't rush me ::) He gets it.
And they do come back with a ton of imperfections, broken. This is where we are stronger, and are willing to hold out a helping hand, if needed. They are trying to piece together not only themselves, but their marriage and family. This is a new road for both of us, good thing is, we're on the same path this time.
HUGS
FH
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People who have never experienced MLC always say to me how would you ever be able to trust him not to cheat again.
I think most of you would agree, that is the easy part. This man NEVER was even tempted to cheat on me in 22 years, trust me. I think the hardest part of building trust is to trust that he won't give up again. That he won't road the coward's way out and run if things get too tough.
So I suppose the answer to that is the same as the answer to MLC-Time. It's now my least favorite 4 letter word.
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I think the hardest part of building trust is to trust that he won't give up again. That he won't road the coward's way out and run if things get too tough.
Agreed... I think that this will be the hardest part for me if/when that time comes.
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I didn't rush you so don't rush me ::) He gets it.
I like that :).
I think the hardest part of building trust is to trust that he won't give up again. That he won't road the coward's way out and run if things get too tough.
I agree Jay, the infidelity was just a symptom of the crisis, and like your H, at least as far as a spouse can ever really know, my H didn't cheat in 23 years, but he already had a history of running when life got tough (he ran away from home as a youth). So yes, trusting that he wouldn't run again would probably be the thing I would find more difficult to trust in.
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This is such a good question. I'm struggling badly with this one.
Four years ago my H relocated to the guest room, then ran off to the mountains for months at a time, had a couple of EA's, and eventually decided he was returning... and then asked if I'd be ok with that (not that we were getting back together, mind you; he just didn't want to live in a tent anymore). It was more than a year after that, that we actually started to reconcile in any shape or form.
My H has done the heavy-lifting work of lugging his shrinking conscience from terrified to guilty to actually remorseful. He says he's not that guy anymore, and truly he looks and sounds different. But how can he prove to me that he's trustworthy? By not doing anything bad? How could he prove a negative? H thinks he can just live with me, be a decent guy, and try not to set off my (multitudinous) triggers. And hope that one day, it'll be enough.
When will it be enough for me? Well, I'm honestly delighted to recover a relationship with H (as he is now). But in the back of my mind, I can't rest easy - it will happen again, my brain tells me, just wait and he'll do it again. He'll dissociate and drift, just like he did before. Some weeks back, when H (accidentally? mindlessly? on purpose?) really hit a trigger with me, I told H I can't trust you, and H reacted like I'd hit him. "Do you know what it feels like, to know you don't trust me?" H asked. Then he withdrew for days, in a stew of remorse. I could've yelled, "you don't know what it feels like to live through your partner's MLC...". But this could become an endless cycle - H breaks my trust, I can't trust him so I berate him, he can't let himself be vulnerable to me... so he will break my trust. It's a koan - what is the sound of one hand trusting? So... this is what I realize: independent of whether H deserves my trust or not, I have to learn to put aside my (realistic, dammit!) doubts and to trust. It's like walking on a fractured limb. I don't know how to do this. But I know I must.
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Lots of great answers and insights to this question. Trust? Just a massive thing to loose.. makes me feel alone, disconnected with no "real home or anchor". I had no idea the true value of the word "trust".. I simply took it for granted that he was 100% trustworthy . It was excruciating to destroy the pedestal and face that he is in fact "ordinary". Loss of trust is truly the most painful human injury .. the consequences are endless and never silent . .. and I fear very long lasting.
For me, it is about doing my own inner work, gaining my own emotional strength , my own stability , repairing what I viewed as a total explosion of my own "intuition". My intuition was "wrong " about him . I wept all over the therapist for this perceived loss. How will I navigate my life without my intuition ? How will I know if my daughters are okay without my intuition? It was very had to face and accept that I failed to trust myself . I failed to honor myself and believe the inner voice that KNEW there was an affair. I failed to act on that voice for the 1st time in my life. It was too horrific to process... so I put myself in harms way physically , emotionally . I need to continue to work on my own internal self , forgive myself and know that no matter what he ever does in life again... I can trust myself, be there for myself... and I will be just fine. I will never be slaughtered again . I am not there yet but I see a goal. Without trusting yourself, I do not believe you are ever "safe" enough to even consider trusting another.
It is 100% about actions... consistent repeated actions. He calls, he is accountable for his time , his whereabouts , his words. He respects my anxiety as a result of his actions and he consistently and repeatedly "owns" that injury and tries to show reliability and rebuild his integrity and honesty. He is not (EVER) defensive when he is asked questions. He does not do anything that appears "unpredictable" or suspicious without explanation. He pays attention, asks me "are you okay", he knows the "triggers" and tries to be aware. I feel he is genuine and sincere in his efforts... starts to lean towards trusting him again. It has been 2 1/2 years of "reconnection" and still learning about the extent of the consequences of loss of trust.
Trusting again is very unique to each person... from our FOO issues, past experiences, personalities and on and on. I have been betrayed in the past . It took years to recover. My husband knew that about me .. he knew the pain and suffering I endured . He was my rock. So it was an absolute explosion of my life , when he betrayed and lied. I still feel the shock to this very day. The gift of trust I gave to him was a risk . He was worth the risk . Never will I do that again. Not in a bitter , angry way... just the natural flow of cause and affect. Never will I be capable of fully trusting another person as long as I live. I could not survive it again. He is very aware of his permanent caution in my life.
My husband just will not quit. He will not walk away . He will not say "enough is enough".. I am done with this sh$t!. He has got the staying power few men can withstand . This has been HARD !. He has taken a true and consistent sh$t kicking and still he owns it and moves forward. His daughters have handed him a few more teary kicks... but he says " I will never ever leave you again..ever". I admire that about him. He consistently attends his counselling for 2 1/2 years to understand " where he went mentally / or how this could ever have happened ". This helps with trust big time . Feeling reassured that he will NOT run again .. points to trust .
WE read about trust or watch some videos and have conversations . Never will it simply be taken for granted. We have done "trust building " workbooks at Retrovaille and he is aware of the damage and shows patience . We have agreed what trust is and how it destroys lives. He has shown remorse and he has taken 100 % responsibility . He participates in all discussions wether in private or public.He has said many times that he is sorry and deeply regrets his actions . All helps ioren re establishing some measure of trust.
I have PTSD , so just a smorgasboard of triggers and reativity... still he stays, he is kind and good, he listens and lets me cry, he takes me lovely calming places, I feel a priority now.... he talks far more to me...
Computer is dying ... so I will stop for the night... but there is more to say here . I will be back
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At the start...it was all about actions. What was SHE doing to make sure I was ok...that I was feeling safe. For her to do that she had to acknowledge what she had done and accept the consequences. That helped ease the DOUBTS & FEARS I had...but it didn't build REAL TRUST.
REAL TRUST for me came toward the end when I had finally learned that I was just fine being just me. When I finally stopped looking at everything in my life through the lens of a MLC Victim. That day changed my life...because that was when I was finally free...free of flashbacks, free of worry, fear of all the what ifs and whys.
I was fine...better than fine...I was free and finally felt like I could be happy and move forward without looking back; and at that point trust was easier to give because you realize that you survived this nightmare, climbed the mountain of recovery and now know that no matter what comes that you are strong enough to handle it.
Stay Strong
BB
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Attaching to this thread.
There are some incredibly helpful insights that people are posting here. I am a long way away from any kind of reconciliation - learning to trust myself and my own feelings is where I am at. I was too trusting, and blind, so now I go the other way and second guess myself constantly. It seems to me once you can trust yourself again, trusting others gets much easier.
Looking forward to hearing more from those of you who have progressed along this path and survived!
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Such great insight and replies. Thank you all. Maybe I should change the title of this thread to something like, what to do in order to trust again? or something like that because there are many no longer standing.
I see working on trusting again not just for my MLCer yet for anyone as my main mirror work focus. Ok it took a year for me to figure out that I am responsible for my own feelings.
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Last, we have to accept that trusting them again will take TIME - lots of time. We also have to be realistic and accept that we may never trust them unreservedly again, but we can TRUST OURSELVES.
I agree with this. Do I trust my H? No. Do I trust God and myself? Yes and in that order.
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I have days when I feel like you and then there are days when I slide right back to where I was a year ago when I learned of his shenanigans. I find comfort in knowing I did not do anything wrong here and that it is all about him and his selfishness. I think I am going to try and focus on not looking at things through the lens of an MLC victim. I have tons of doubts and fears and I try not to discuss them but when I do, H acts surprised and thinks when we don't talk about it, things are good.
At the start...it was all about actions. What was SHE doing to make sure I was ok...that I was feeling safe. For her to do that she had to acknowledge what she had done and accept the consequences. That helped ease the DOUBTS & FEARS I had...but it didn't build REAL TRUST.
REAL TRUST for me came toward the end when I had finally learned that I was just fine being just me. When I finally stopped looking at everything in my life through the lens of a MLC Victim. That day changed my life...because that was when I was finally free...free of flashbacks, free of worry, fear of all the what ifs and whys.
I was fine...better than fine...I was free and finally felt like I could be happy and move forward without looking back; and at that point trust was easier to give because you realize that you survived this nightmare, climbed the mountain of recovery and now know that no matter what comes that you are strong enough to handle it.
Stay Strong
BB
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I've suspended any decisions about trust until my husband is further along in his MLC. I trust him on a day to day basis to do his best under the current circumstances and to not abandon me, but there were promises made in the past that he broke and those are the things I will have to deal with on a case by case basis in the future.
But the issue of trust goes both ways. He always said he trusted me more than anyone, even his mother. Now I sometimes see he is distrustful of me. Probably more due to his own actions than my own. But that hurts me almost more than losing my own trust in him.
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That appears to be the right way to approach it; it's also what RCR says in the article on trust.
withhold complete Trust until there has been an effort to heal your relationship as well as each of you as individuals, until there has been active remorse--words are not enough--and until there has been active rebuilding of the relationship--whether it is a marital relationship or a relationship that will continue as former spouses and co-parents.
My has has got very upset when I got the courage to say that I didn't trust him, however when I asked if he wanted me to trust him he couldn't answer, mumbling something about "well, I guess everyone wants to be trusted".
He does say without hesitation that he trusts me.
It's yet another tightrope; we don't want to facilitate mistrust by acting "as if" they can't be trusted, equally we don't want to offer trust where it isn't warranted.
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/self-focus_assurances_trust_tidbits-of-trust.html
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I wouldn't say I am withholding trust as much as delaying judgment as to whether he deserves it or not. At this point I think what is for the best is to at least act "as if" I trust him because he has promised me that the worst aspects of the MLC are temporary and he seems to get very upset if he feels I am doubting that or not accepting it. I think I will have more leverage in the future if necessary if I have acted as I trusted him during this period and he lets me down.
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I agree, Changing. Best route to go.
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Changing...
The other thing to remember is that the "Trust" that you have in your head is probably based more on your Pre-MLC thoughts and understanding. This experience changes you forever no matter what. I always say that Christmas is never the same after you learn that Santa isn't real. Well Trust is never the same after you have seen what we have seen.
Speaking from the Post-MLC world. I trust my wife without a thought. If she is late, texting, whatever...my mind no longer runs back to bad memories and worries. That distrust is gone. She earned that right, and her actions since MLC allowed me to let go of those worries. So in time it does come back. What doesn't come back is the blissful naivete that was once a staple for us all. We all believed that love could never hurt like that and that they would never do anything like that...but the realities of life touch us all eventually and we learn it was just Mom & Dad filling those stockings.
The MLC'r that is angry when we don't trust them came in two forms for me...the first was the conniving liar that used that argument to try and flip the blame and change the lighting to my shortcomings rather than on her sins...the second one was the repentant spouse trying to win back what she had lost, because the loss of that trust broke her heart and she didn't know how to get it back. Dealing with that angry MLC'r took two entirely different tacks as those were two entirely different people. Trust is a word we throw out often...but is hard to define as it is a feeling more than a thing. Talking about it with our spouses tends to start more fights than it finishes. Eventually I stopped using it because it was something that only she could earn with actions and not words and it was something that I could only feel when I let go of the past, forgave her sins and moved on with living without the microscope of MLC.
Stay Strong.
BB
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Dang BB, great commentary as always.
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I recently had a convo with Mr. HP where I told him that I didn't trust him... because if I couldn't trust him with the small stuff, how on earth could I trust him with the big stuff.
Flash forward to yesterday... one of the small things I mentioned during that convo, he managed to keep his end of the agreement and give me proper notice. I like to believe they are listening to what we say and do.
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Elegance,
Trust, BB hit the nail on the head. When Mr. FH moved towards me, and I knew he was serious about our marriage, I just told him that I didn't trust him and It wasn't my job to make that happen. I let that process for awhile. He became more open about what he was doing and who was on the phone, baby steps. Funny thing by the time we got to that point, I was ready for whatever happened.
Do I trust him, honestly don't think about it much. I know that he knows, if he screws up again, I'm out of there. So, the pressures on him to make things better, not me.
FH
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When I created this thread, my H was out of the tunnel and stayed out for four solid months.
I did my reading and knew he couldn't just snap out of it!
He didn't, it was nice while the old H was back, yet ran back in the tunnel.
So any trust established was lost again :-\ I'm not even thinking about trying to trust him again until i see significan't improvement for at least a year!
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...but the realities of life touch us all eventually and we learn it was just Mom & Dad filling those stockings.
:o :o :o
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Attaching
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When I created this thread, my H was out of the tunnel and stayed out for four solid months.
I did my reading and knew he couldn't just snap out of it!
He didn't, it was nice while the old H was back, yet ran back in the tunnel.
So any trust established was lost again :-\ I'm not even thinking about trying to trust him again until i see significan't improvement for at least a year!
Hi E,
Last year, when my H came out of the tunnel [for about 2 months], I was so relieved we'd got through "it" and I had no idea about MLC or what was going on so I got it all wrong and he's fully back in there now.
Thanks to this forum etc. I know better. I hope I get another chance.
x
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This is an awesome thread. Thank you all so much.
Im still a newbie. Bd 7 weeks ago. OM confirmed on friday. Whole family is shocked. W is at SILs. Apparemtly making good progress and realizing what a mess she has caused.
Im at home with our boys waiting for her like a fool.
Ive told her that i can forgive whats been done as it wasnt really her who done it. I cant forgive if anything "new" should happen.
W 43. OM 28-30. Hes obviously bottled it now that its got out and hes already recieved what he was after.
Hope she sees sence. Shes going to regret this oneday otherwise.
Smartphones with Fingerprint recognition paired with whatsapp is an evil combination. I think that if both are prepared to not use fingerprint recognition and maybe a Common passwort it may help. It doesnt mean that you look in your Partners phone, it just means theres nothing to hide.
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Elegance,
Trust, BB hit the nail on the head. When Mr. FH moved towards me, and I knew he was serious about our marriage, I just told him that I didn't trust him and It wasn't my job to make that happen. I let that process for awhile. He became more open about what he was doing and who was on the phone, baby steps. Funny thing by the time we got to that point, I was ready for whatever happened.
Do I trust him, honestly don't think about it much. I know that he knows, if he screws up again, I'm out of there. So, the pressures on him to make things better, not me.
FH
I agree with this 100%. My H is doing the same thing. Baby steps all the way. If he does something that triggers me or raises my eyebrows I call him on it. Usually its innocent and we move on. Its exhausting as my radar is up most days. The ball is in his court to rebuild trust but I also have a lot of work to do to not examine every little detail of our lives. If he messes up again, the truth will come out eventually. Lets just say I'm not giving up my anxiety meds just yet! ;)