[How many of your MLCers are on antidepressants/SSRI medication]

How many of your MLCers are on antidepressants/SSRI medication

Yes started after MLC

9 (20%)

Yes started before MLC

10 (22.2%)

Do not know

4 (8.9%)

No

22 (48.9%)

Total Members Voted: 45

[Braincell77]

Hi LP

I have no problem with short term use to get over a bad spell. 3 to 6 months max. After that they are harmful. I have discussed with mental health workers and they are off the same opinion.

I do not agree with the imbalance theory and I do not believe drugs should be the answer to depression. Exercise therapy and diet are just as beneficial and I stand by my theory that the healing should come from within and drugs just mask the problem.

Winston Churchill suffered from severe depression. He managed to survive without SSRIs.

Mark my words, in 20 years time they will look back at the ssri era and think how barbaric it was. I have researched this in depth and there are many studies by respected professors to back my opinion.

I am afraid AD,s are in many cases the easy way out, its a form of running just as replay is. I am glad your H benefitted but if you do not believe there are many more who have had their lives ruined by these check out paxilprogress.com. Very sobering.

[BB64]

Hey,
I am going to have to disagree about the use of ad's and it being an easy way out.
I suffered with ptsd and all the trimmings for almost 10 years. My behaviour could have been compared to that of a mlcer.
In my case, I absolutely needed the ad's to get me started with the more natural ways to combat depression.
It takes a lot of courage for someone in crisis to seek help.Not just courage but clarity in thinking, too. That does not come easy, it comes when it does. Clarity of thinking during depression is almost obsolete.
It is only in moments of great despair that it might appear. It goes one way or the other, it raises you up or it can break you even more.
And so  yes, we run, but sometimes, we run forward, too, and if the support is there, that helps a lot! Without support and love, it's much harder.
I would praise anybody seeking help within the medical world.

I am on ad's now, mild ones, but they do help me and I won't stop taking them until I feel my life is sorted, and I work hard at that.
I have come a very long way. And yes I exercised the whole time, too, still do, eat well etc...but it doesn't erase the bad memories.

Ad's in addition to medical suport, mental and physical, are a great lift!

So it may poison our body and mind. So does depression and more devastatingly so.
Depression kills. You hear the stories: father went mad killed entire family then himself. Girl jumps in front a train. Woman kills her h during a fight as he went to kill her first.

If a tiny little tablet can help with any of that? I think that is absolutely marvellous!

[Braincell77]

Bb

Ptsd is a lot different than anxiety. My W was given ssris for anxiety. It not only removed her anxiety but also her morals. If your loved one went manic on ssris as mine did I do not believe you would think they were marvelous. I have been depressed Since Bd. Therapyand self awareness are far more beneficial. Just read the research on long term effects of ssris and not the pharma sponsored research. Read ssri stories. I think they are the easy way out but they cause long term damage. I do not blame people who take them as they are sold them by the doc. The docs are sold them by big pharma. Anything that you need to be weaned off and that changes the function of your brain is something that should be avoided long term in my opinion. I think people who are using them do have a different opinion. Read Peter breggin research on medication spellbinding and this may explain why. My cousin is on the board at the charity mind. He knows a thing or two about mental health. When he found out his mother was on ssris following his fathers death he went around there and threw them away. Says it all in my opinion. Ecstacy is a little pill that makes you happy. Does not mean You should take it everyday.

[Darth Obo]

For those LBS taking medication to help you have you noticed an emotional disconnect from your partner shortly after treatment has started?

I went on Lexapro (SSRI) about a couple months ago after discussing various symptoms with my therapist and MD. I suffer from Hyper Anxiety and apparently a long-term form of PTSD from all my military related combat experience. The Hyper Anxiety is a side symptom from another chemical imbalance I was diagnosed with as a child.

The first week I was on it, I was pretty calm, but felt really weird; like I could tell I was doped up on something. After about 2 weeks, this euphoric feeling went away. I am A LOT calmer now. I use to worry about all things in my life and my mind would be constantly working to the point I couldn't sleep or function at times. My attention & focus suffered. Since I have been on the meds, I can focus 100% on current tasks and I don't sweat the small stuff anymore including when it comes to the current relationship issues.

As far as emotional disconnect; I wouldn't say I am disconnected. What it has done for me is allow me to "blow off" negative emotions; I don't let things she does or say get to me anymore. It basically helped me detach from the emotional roller coaster. I do still maintain my good feelings and on those days where she wants my attention / affection, I am able to do that and still not get upset when she pulls away. This has allowed me to do all the things preached on this site and others by giving space, GALing, etc.

As far as Physical issues, Only two so far. I have experienced some sleeplessness periodically. As far as sexual dysfunction, a couple of things: 1) slight drop in libido; I don't "crave" it like I use to and have no desire to initiate but she can get me aroused and in the mood. 2) Although I can function, there is at least a 50% chance that I can't "make it to the finish line" which of course pisses her off, but oh well...LOL!

Also raising serotonin lowers dopamine which is the love hormone which bonds couples together.

I have read about this and was under the impression that Oxytocin was the love / bonding hormone. I believe you mention this later in the thread. Interestingly, from what I have read, Women have 10 times more Oxytocin in their brains than men which may be the reason it takes men longer to connect emotionally. Women's Oxytocin seems to be driven more by conversation for connecting where men get huge amounts of Oxytocin release during sexual fulfillment. This appears to be why most men feel completely connected / bonded immediately after sexual intimacy and for most women, physical intimcay is the outcome of being connected / bonded.

-OneByOne-

[BB64]

Hi, again, Braincell 
I too did my research before deciding to go for 'the easy way out' of depression through Ad's, but seeing as anxiety was my major symptom - I'm talking about attacks lasting anything from 10 minutes to 9 hours (that was my highest record) .
I had to seek help. All the exercise I did: dog waljing 1 hour+, spinning:1:30 every day did not alter my way of thinking. It did not make one blind bit of difference, sure I became lean, more energetic and more confident about myself but it just wasn't enough.
It did not stop the 'nagging, nasty thoughts' in their track.
That's what I needed help with. All the self help book in the world (and I read many and applied the advice and exercises), the counselling I received, group therapy did not help with my negative thinking.
I understood how it coukd all work, but it just didn't.
My doc kept me off the ad's for as long as he could.
It was my choice, I asked for them.
He still wouldn't. I think to him, I was a bit of a project to be honest. He even said to me back then: You are one of my most intelligent patient with so much going for you, I cannot give up on you as you never give up yourself.
So he put me on betta blockers instead. Didn't work.
I gave up smoking, gave up caffeine and sweets. After a year, still no noticeable improvement except that my attacks were a bit more sparse although still long lasting and still kept me pretty much housebound.
After a couple of years of trying anything I could to help myself, I was getting highly frustrated with it all, which did not help matters.
So I demanded to be put on ad's.
Well, the worst side effect I had from them was reoetitive and intense yawning. My jaws were aching from it! Yet, I didn't feel tired.
Anyway, since then I have kost more weight, gained a real lust for life, sex, fun, friendships. My positivity came back out of the blue, I was going out with friends again, going on holidays, shopping etc..,
Life was good again!
My relationship with my kids is awesome! My dogs also benefitted, my friends and most importantly my nasty, nagging thoughts were being buried by my positive thinking.
So yes, the ad's altered my thinking, and in a very good way!
Maybe I am a bit of an exception, who knows? Who cares? It worked.

It wasn't an easy way out, it was an easy in! In towards the real me! I was me again, the me who was fine before ptsd came to haunt me to the point of almost no return.

I chose life, not death. Does that make me a coward taking the easy way out? No! It does not!
What I was enduring was horrific. Ad's helped me save me.
Please do not assume that we are all so gullible to believe that there aren't alternatives to ad's. Sometimes they really are a last result.

A bit like epidurals or laughing gas are to a woman about to give birth, call it an easy way out if you wish (I gave birth naturally twice myself), but until you have experienced the agony yourself, your opinion will not count. No uterus, no opinion (to quote Rachel Green-Friends).

Until you find yourself in that pit of depression and anxiety I do not believe you can fully understand just how strong bad thoughts and feelings can destroy you and those around you,
When you realise what your depression does to others, two ways of thinking come to the fore of the mind.
The easy way out and the harder way out;:
Easy: suicide
Hard: get help and get sorted.
Some make the right choice, like I did.
And not because I was misinformed, gullible nor brainwashed, but because I had tried everything else.

Funny you should talk of ecstasy: I used to use drugs in a recreational way: ecstasy, marijuanna, cocaine, lsd....mainly to escape and avoid. It's true and whilst on the high, they worked! But the come downs? Doesn't bare thinkng about,
No come downs with ad's.
Not even after being wheaned (can't spell that sorry, French moment here) off them. I was on and off them a few times btw.

Ptsd and anxiety go hand in hand, as I said anxiety was my main symptom, the other was flashbacks of my horrific ordeal,
Gone, all gone! Do you know what that means to me?

  I really appreciate what you are saying and admire your zeal where trying to help people with the knowledge you have seeked and aquired, however, encouraging people to go against what their physician/psychiatrist are ordonning them to do to help themselves, is not something I would like to be responsible for. Just like I wouldn't to be responsible for guiding them towards pharmaceuticals.
Muddy waters here!

I am really sorry about your wife, but Braincell, your wife anxiety came from somewhere. Mlc, tablets or not, mlc was already there....probably...or some form of crisis anyway. It was just a long time coming.
Blaming the ad's or anything else won't make a difference.

I wanted to vote on the poll but none of it applied to my h.
15 months into mlc, he started to take herbal anti-depressants, used by tribes in South Africa-sorry can't recall the name right now.
That is all I know of where my h is concerned.
He was, however, a few months oreviously and for about 6 months, addicted to the pain killer Tramadol. That's now gone. Thank god!

I enjoy reading your posts, I must say, and I hope this discussion keeps on going. It's been great help to me, thank you.

[CallanG]

My H and I are on AD's . I am not sure what he is on but I am taking an SSRI.

It was not a choice that I made lightly , but after a couple of months after BD I felt out of control . I could not control my anger , I had thoughts of ending it all . I could barely make it from one day to the next and being the type of person I am I could not carry on like that . I had started seeing a counsellor and when I told her I had decided to go on AD's she said I had mae a big step in realising that I needed help . She did not recommend them but could see that in my case they could help .

I had some issues for the first couple of weeks , I think I had hit such a low that the effect of the tablets felt like a huge head rush, I stuck with them and I am glad I did . They did not solve my problems they just enabled me to deal with day to day life and get my self on more of an even keel so that my counselling could start to help me . They certainly did not block my feelings , I could still feel pain and love .

My H was dead against taking them , but after another breakdown I think his counsellor suggested it , H shows some signs of bi polar and always has done, but I am not sure his GP would have picked up in that partly because at the time H was blaming his depression on my and our marriage . Because of this taking them made him quite manic , they had the opposite effect he started making more rash decisions and felt that he was all better after a few weeks . This was bck in September , he now says that the tablets make him see the negative in anything but my honest opion is that he is still looking for things to blame for his unhappiness.

I dont think that taking them is the easy way out , I think you could look at it the other way and say that you are making a choice because you have tried everything else and you want to try and feel better.

This is just my opinion but I do think that how effective they are can depend on the person and them wanting to feel better , I hated feeling like I did I wanted to start living again , my H is still walowing in self pity and blaming everything under the sun for his unhappiness .

There is no right or wrong with this but I feel that if you can take something to help you recover from such an awful event , that can maybe start to help you rebuild then I am all for it .

[Braincell77]

Thanks for all your feedback. I guess it does depend on each person. Some people go manic and make irrational decisions on SSRI's, others do not. 

One by One, Oxyticin is the hormone produced after sex, it also reinforces the bonding.However,  I believe it is possible to bond with someone before sex . Dopamine is what gives that nice feeling when you have a cuddle with someone, its that feeling you get when you start to fall in love and a dopamine hit is produced when you share good times with your long term partner. Long term SSRI use depletes dopamine. There is good research by Professor Helen Fisher on this. When the dopamine levels drop and our partners are with OM/OW there is a dopamine hit as it is a new experience. They mistake this for love.

When the newness wears off they will often realise its not love. By then it is very often too late, the damage to the LBS is to much.

Please be assured I am not criticising anyone for taking AD's and as I have said many times they can be used for 6 months max to help people through tough times such as BD. They DO cause damage long term as the brain adapts to the restriction of serotonin reuptake. There is research on Baboons where they tested the Neurotransmitters after giving them SSRI's. The brain had closed down transmitters as it adapted to the excess serotonin. In some cases the transmitters were still damaged 7 years later.

90% of serotonin is in the gut and genitals. This is what causes sexual dysfunction and digestive problems for some.

As far as withdrawal, this is often mistaken for a relapse and people are put back on SSRI's.

Do i trust a GP with prescribing these.......No. There is no test for serotonin levels in the brain so I will not allow someone to give me something for a condition that they have guessed.   

My Wife was on a low dose for 3 years following her mothers death. She was telling me how madly in love she was and was often telling me how she was so happy just 4 months before BD. 3 months before BD she was given a higher dose for PMS. Within one month she was walking around with wild amphetamine like eyes, within two months she was saying she was going on a journey and disconnecting with the children. (She is now trying to give the eldest daughter to me as she can not be bothered with her) Then we had BD where she said she wanted to be a $l()t and screw other guys.

All after her updose...........coincidence, No way. There may well have been an MLC brewing, who knows.

There was a site on TOPIX called marriages destroyed by SSRI's. 16,000 posts from left behind spouses and SSRI users who had come off the drugs and could not believe their behaviour whilst on SSRI's. When they ceased the drugs many regained their feelings and were trying to reconcile. The site was taken down last week but I believe a new one has started.

Do not think these pills are just harmless little pills. If they were you could get them over the counter.

Even the literature that comes with them warns family and carers against sudden character changes. There is a reason for that. 

My wife went manic on them and my happy family has been ripped apart by them. I would gladly ram these pills down the throat of every executive at glaxosmithkline and forest labs and see how long the majority of their marriages last. I WILL advise people to come of them and feel no remorse in saying so.

I believe one of you said your doctor did not want you to have them. Sounds like one of the better ones to me. My W doctor did not even know you could go manic on them and also said its fine for her to drink on them. Goes against what the literature says but there you go. 

I have had days when I have thought about ending it since this crap has happened. Believe me when I tell you I went through stages of not being able to get out of bed, my whole life has been
destroyed. I have not self medicated, took AD's or anything like that. I have just suffered horribly for 6 months but can feel myself coming out of it. Its grief, its natural and our body and mind has ways of coping.       

I do not want to mask this problem and then have to grieve all over again when I have to come off AD's.
Its only my opinion but I would rather wade through the $h!te storm now rather than store it up for later. 

If it helps you I am honestly happy for you because I know how tough this sitch is, we all do because we are living it. In my case they are part of the problem as opposed to the solution so please forgive me for my militant views. Sometimes you just know when something is a contributing factor and well........I just know.

I love all you guys on here and do not mean to sound disrespectful. I just know that my W coming off her meds will be a step towards the end of this mess. I will keep you all updated. She can be our case study if you like                  

     

   

[BB64]

Thanks for sharing all that you have, braincell.
I really appreciate your honesty and ability to listen.
As fir you militant like stance on the subject, I highly respect this, tii.
I wouldn't wish for you to back down, I admire your strong convictions.
For that, you have my utmost respect.

I hope your wife finds a way out of this mess.

Hugs? 

[Darth Obo]

Please be assured I am not criticising anyone for taking AD's and as I have said many times they can be used for 6 months max to help people through tough times such as BD.

Braincell, Thanks for all the data you have provided. Yes, one of my main concerns for me is how long I would be on these. The main reason I went on them wasn't just to deal with the MLC issues (although it definitely helped); I had a long history of anxiety / worry / nervousness. The SSRI helped "kill" that along with reducing my stress within the marriage. I am going to work with my doctor / therapist to find a long term solution that doesn't include SSRI. One of my main concerns is I would "lose" my feelings / emotions towards my wife. I see my concerns may very well be founded.

As far as withdrawal, this is often mistaken for a relapse and people are put back on SSRI's.

Could this be because the went CT on them? When my Doc prescribed them he definitely told me DO NOT stop immediately and when it was time to come off he would slowly reduce my dosage over time. Right now he has me on one 10mg pill a day taken at either bed time or in mornings.

One by One, Oxyticin is the hormone produced after sex, it also reinforces the bonding.However,  I believe it is possible to bond with someone before sex . Dopamine is what gives that nice feeling when you have a cuddle with someone, its that feeling you get when you start to fall in love and a dopamine hit is produced when you share good times with your long term partner.

Gotcha. Thanks for clarifying. I know I had read about it (I have read more than I can remember at this point) and I knew the two were connected; must have misunderstood.


-OneByOne-

[Braincell77]

Hugs to you as well Bb. Thankfully she stopped her pills three weeks ago so I am going to just wait and see how it goes.

One by one, Some people have problems even when tapering.  I think the best way to taper is 10 percent at a time every 6 weeks but this requires a pill cutter. My W has tapered far to quickly and as a result D15 has said her mood swings are ridiculous!! She went from 30mg to 0 in three months after 3.5 years of use.

If it gets a bit strange for you just update, stabilise and follow the 10 percent schedule.

The problem is the brain has adapted to the higher levels by shutting down the nt's and when the dose is reduced the brain has to catch up and repair/regrow  new transmitters.

Thing is normal docs do not really know all this. General practitioners are jack of all trades masters of none but that is not their fault.

A little insight into how the original license for Prozac was approved.

The manufacturers noticed that a lot of trial subjects were going manic so they simply added a tranquilizer in for good measure. Did they tell the FDA ......hell no.

That may have influenced the outcome. They omitted that and subsequently docs prescribed it without a tranquilizer. A lot of people go manic on these but when you are manic you do not recognise it. You just feel fantastic. Your loved ones will not though because you will act like a teenage dirtbag and to he'll with everyone else.

Read Dr Ben Goldacres book bad pharma. It really blows open the immoral actions of these big pharma companies.