[How many of your MLCers are on antidepressants/SSRI medication]

How many of your MLCers are on antidepressants/SSRI medication

Yes started after MLC

9 (20%)

Yes started before MLC

10 (22.2%)

Do not know

4 (8.9%)

No

22 (48.9%)

Total Members Voted: 45

[Braincell77]

 Hi R2T

Yes I have been on the ssri thread and have posted quite frequently.  These are the only two sites I bother with now. This site has such great advice on how to deal with the situation. Even though my problem is definitely driven by the SSRI, s it is still a MLC and the behaviours are identical.That is why I wanted the poll and I am startled by the results. They do offer further proof that this is a genuine factor.

I am not saying my W would not have had a natural MLC later on in life as she was a neglected child and had her mums early passing to deal with. What I do believe though is that it may not have ocurred but the meds had enough effect on her hormones to make damn certain of it.

There are plenty of stories of spouses returning to their previous personalities from 2-18 months after taking their last dose but the trick is to get them off the meds because feel bulletproof on them. Thats just another problem I am faced with!! Odds are the alienator is on them as well as users just seem to connect!

I will also say to the 8 who have voted no thus far..........I could well be wrong but quite a few spouses on the dedicated ssri thread were not aware their spouses were using them.........they found out later on. People do not always feel comfortable admitting to using AD,s and its easy to leave them at work. Its only 1 pill per day!

Would also be great to get some views from LBS who have used meds to help them through. Just your view of how it as affected your general emotions.

Thanks all for any info. I am like a dog with a bone with this subject at the moment

[kikki]

I understand what you are saying about the fact that we may not know about our spouse's SSRI intake, but I can pretty much 100% guarantee that my H is not taking anything.  He has been offered them by his doctor, and other health care workers that I managed to encourage him to see in the first year.
He is terrified of taking them, and refused, saying it would stop his creativity.  (it is how he earns his money).

Another thing to consider - is the common denominator the depression that over-rides the crisis?  And the medication is secondary to that?  I know for your wife it was her tipping point once she took the meds, but for those of us who saw the tipping point without the meds - we know it is a potential too. 
It's another of those eternal chicken or egg questions that go around and around in our minds, and we will never have definite proof of.

My sister took 6mths of SSRI's for post natal depression.  She firmly believes that she would never have managed to pull through it without their help.  She feels it enabled her head to clear enough that she could start exercising and do the therapy that set her on the path of healing.

Not discounting your experience and point of view at all - just something else to consider, and that you won't ever find definitive proof either way. 

[Braincell77]

Hi Kiki

I agree that in some cases a short while on the drugs may be beneficial as is the case with your sister. The dopamine down regulation and the damage to the Neurotransmitters occur after long term use and my W was on them for 3.5 years and counting.

The slow insidious decline of emotional bonding occurs over this period which is very similar to the initial withdrawal of a MLCer before BD. By time BD has arrived my W had gradualy distanced herself from me over a 4 month period. It happened in waves of emotions. One week she was in love another week starting arguments over such silly things. A prime example. Whilst we were on holiday we had one minor blowup. I had got up early every morning with D3 to allow my W to have a lay in.I cooked daughter sausages and eggs and was about to take her to the pool as I had done every morning. My W got up as I was leaving and proceeded to lay into me for not cooking her sausages and eggs. It was like a tantrum from my D15.  I did not react apologised and went swimming. By the time I had returned my Wife apologised and spent the rest of the day in love again. This is a little snapshot of the 4 months i endured after her meds were raised and before BD. As the 4 months progressed the mood swings were more pronounced.

Now another point to consider is that my W was prescribed the Meds for anxiety following her mums death and not depression.
Her updose was for PMS symptoms which worsened after her original prescription and guess what one of the side effects are.................irregular periods and mood swings. They used the medication that caused it to treat it .     

She had grief, not depression and they never tested her hormone or serotonin level once yet just threw pills at her which changed her from a a sweet, loving, wonderful women to a selfish , cruel and heartless women. She was fine at the 6 month mark. That is when she should have been weaned off but UK doctors just issue prescriptions without even seeing the patient.

Until she had the updose things were getting better and better. Our relationship in March of this year was the best it had ever been. Even she said that and we were both so excited for the future. The only single thing that changed between March and April.............the pills were upped and that is why I know along with other anecdotal evidence that the Meds induced my wifes MLC.

By the way the pills over time also reduce the oxyticin (not sure of the spelling) which is the chemical designed to bond couples together and is produced after sex. It is linked to Dopamine regulation and explains why the majority of SSRI users suffer sexual dysfunction. I also recall looking back that my wife who was also a very cuddly person ( I do not mean fat!) declined more and more over them 4 months when I used to offer a cuddle on the sofa. She started to say lets wait until bed and of course we would then have sex.

Interestingly the low dopamine reduces the reward feelings from affection such as cuddling but it does not stop lust....this is why my relationship turned very sexual in the last 4 months but emotionally we were drifting . Too many coincidences, it fits to well. I appreciate not all MLC are caused by this but mine certainly was.

Now if I can just get her off them damn pills!!                          

[Braincell77]

Right guys and girls. I have 26 votes and I know this is a lot more of you than that!

I do not want to get all North Korean on you but if you do not vote you will be tracked down,  taken from your beds at night and tortured in the woods. I do not resort to kidnap lightly but this may be an important issue. I dont require comments although they are always nice!

Also if there is any doubt whatsoever then vote do not know because as you know truthfulness and MLCers very rarely mix!
 
Thanks all and sorry for keep bugging I just really believe this is an important issue for some of us and it may even speed up recovery for some of us. I do believe some cases are SSRI driven and by removing the meds you may well be removing the replay element. The stages still mirror each other but that does not mean the length is consistent. The success stories with SSRI crisis normally occur 3-18 months after the meds stop. I will take that all day long if possible!!!

[Ready2Transform]

The longest I have found in my research (and this is not to rain on your parade, because it is rare), was a female lawyer who went off of Lexapro I think cold turkey, and it was around 4 years for her from start to finish.  Lost her marriage (obviously he wasn't a stander) and pretty much everything else.  Said she tried cases and won them, but had no recollection of doing it!  I'll dig out the link and post it, just need to find it again.  Luckily, just like with MLC, few rarely get "stuck in the tunnel" for life, from what I've read, and the long end is not unlike it is for MLC.  Standing actions are mostly the same.  For some of us where it's obvious this was at least a factor, that can bring peace in the storm.

[CrazyTrain]

I have to comment here about my own personal experience.  I believe that I started a mid-life transition in 2011.  I was just very anxious, very angry and I had no filter on my mouth.  At one point, my h told me that I needed to go to the doctor.  I knew that I did, so I went and the doctor put me on Prozac.  Talk about fog city!  I was literally walking around in a fog.  I had no desire to do anything...except cry.  My libido hit the floor.  Then BD came when H told me ILBINILWY (Sept. 2012).  I went back to the doctor told him that I needed to get off the Prozac because I needed to be present in my marriage in all aspects (little did I know at that point).  So we changed it from Prozac to Wellbutrin, and let me tell ya, night and day!  The fog lifted and my head was clear!  Then I find out about Voldemort this May.  The anxiety and panic was really getting to me, so I went to my doctor and we upped the amount of the Wellbutrin and it has certainly helped with the anxiety and panic feelings.  I go back to the doctor in January, and I am going to recommend that we start to lower the Wellburtrin because I would eventually like to get off of it all together.  However, I am not going cold turkey.  I would be a certifiable nut-job then!  And I know that my H isn't taking any such meds because he thinks he is just fine.  Whatever.....

CT 

[Braincell77]

Hi CT -Wellbrutin is a SRNI which works on preventing mainly Dopamine from being reabsorbed. It is given to patients who may suffer sexual dysfunction on SSRI,s. As dopamine is the love chemical it does not really have the same anti bonding effect as an SSRI like prozac. I would encourage you to taper off though as any clinical test only lasts 12 weeks so long term effects are truly unknown.

Imagine being in that Prozac fog for over 3 years. Do you think it could be detrimental to a marriage? I have never taken AD, s but I have seen my wife transform into a coldhearted sociopath on them.

[Breakingthecycle]

Seeing as I have only recently started to have nights were I sleep right through, I thought I would respond before Braincell interrupted my new routine!

H is very much against taking anti-depressants so I am pretty sure he hasn't taken any.  I had tried to get him to take St Johns Wort before he left, he tried for a while, sporadically though.

I, on the other hand, have been on Zoloft for the past 14 years or so.  It was given to me for agoraphobia/anxiety and it did help.  The dosage was increased later to 150mg/day.  About five years ago I decided to reduce the dosage to 100mg and made a few stupid decisions ( left job) but as I look back, this is when I did start to push H away, got snappy, irritable, etc.  after a while I did go back to the 150mg dosage but the attitude didnt change too much if I'm honest.

Earlier this year, with the agreement of my doctor, I reduced the dosage back to 100mg.  No bad changes in attitude this time.  Now I'm not sure if that original change was due to the reduction or whether it would have happened anyway.  Or is my head and attitude better this time around?  Who knows?

[CrazyTrain]

Braincell:  I plan on talking with my doctor when I go in January.  I just want to get off of them for good.  I will say that the Wellbutrin has definitely helped me deal with the anxiety and panic attacks I was experiencing the first couple of months after Mr. CT left.  But every day I get a little bit stronger, and I feel a lot better about ME.  So I will discuss tapering off of them when I see my doctor next month.

Thanks for the encouragement!! 

CT

[Braincell77]

I, on the other hand, have been on Zoloft for the past 14 years or so.  It was given to me for agoraphobia/anxiety and it did help.  The dosage was increased later to 150mg/day.  About five years ago I decided to reduce the dosage to 100mg and made a few stupid decisions ( left job) but as I look back, this is when I did start to push H away, got snappy, irritable, etc.  after a while I did go back to the 150mg dosage but the attitude didnt change too much if I'm honest.

Earlier this year, with the agreement of my doctor, I reduced the dosage back to 100mg.  No bad changes in attitude this time.  Now I'm not sure if that original change was due to the reduction or whether it would have happened anyway.  Or is my head and attitude better this time around?  Who knows?

Interesting......the change in attitude when you dropped dosage is telling here.  When you taper it should only be 10% of your dose which you should hold for 6 weeks to allow your brain to heal in line with the decreased serotonin that remains in the synapse. The doctors never tell you this as they go on the information given by the pharma companies. These are the same Pharma companies who did not even admit to a withdrawal problem until complaints to the FDA etc forced them to do this. They call it discontinuation syndrome because that sounds better than withdrawal. Now the pharma companies do not mind people weaning off to quickly as they then go back to their doctors and are told that they are having reoccuring symptoms and get prescribed......... more Zoloft!!

Problem is that if the lower dose has been more than a month , very often the reinstatement leads to a kindling effect. The brain has just started to repair from the reduced dose and then more of the original just leads to the start up problems again in conjunction with the withdrawal problems from reducing the dose. The Central Nervous system is affected and above all the brain is on a rollercoaster ride just as us LBS are!!! That is why your reinstatement did not bring you back to the previous mood.  You see, I will say it again, the fluctuating moods are caused by variation in the hormone levels not whether they are high or low. Now you are feeling better on the lower dose. This MAY be that your brain is closer to normality as it started to heal before you updosed again.

Did your doctor test your serotonin level before prescribing Zoloft....i would guess not and if not how did he know your levels were low?? We are all chemical soup and our normal levels are all slightly different but the undrugged normal levels are what makes us who we are. We may be confident, anxious, shy. That is who we are. A drunk who is loud and obnoxious but quiet and reserved when sober is quiet and reserved. The alcohol makes him brash and that is an illusion. Alcohol also effects serotonin which is why you are advised not to drink on AD,s.........but they all do which leads to even more outlandish behaviour.

I understand that initially the meds make people feel better. I used to party when I was young and I have experimented with recreational drugs. I took ecstacy and have tried other amphetamines. Not for a very long time though I have to add!!!

Yes they make you high without a care in the world. Until you come down and then your problems are still there as well as the comedown. Zoloft and other SSRIs work on the same principle but are watered down. Difference is that you take them everyday for long periods and they damage and change parts of your brain. This is totally reversible but only stopping them allows this to happen. Luckily the brains ability to repair and balance itself is pretty damn good. Not when drugs keep getting added to the mix though!                   

Some people can take them for years and have very little damaging effect.......but them some people can smoke 60 a day and live until 80. Others smoke 10 a day and get lung cancer at 30.  In just the same way SSRIs make some people manic almost immediately. Others are OK until the dose is changed. Some can separate their mood swings from reality as they know it is the meds. Others get carried away by the emotional numbing and hedonistic thoughts the meds can harvest. My W is one of these unfortunately.