[How many of your MLCers are on antidepressants/SSRI medication]

How many of your MLCers are on antidepressants/SSRI medication

Yes started after MLC

9 (20%)

Yes started before MLC

10 (22.2%)

Do not know

4 (8.9%)

No

22 (48.9%)

Total Members Voted: 45

[Braincell77]

Braincell:  I plan on talking with my doctor when I go in January.  I just want to get off of them for good.  I will say that the Wellbutrin has definitely helped me deal with the anxiety and panic attacks I was experiencing the first couple of months after Mr. CT left.  But every day I get a little bit stronger, and I feel a lot better about ME.  So I will discuss tapering off of them when I see my doctor next month.

Thanks for the encouragement!! 

CT

Trust me you will feel better off them. You may find that you start missing Mr CT a little more but that is because you do miss him!!

I know its hard to fanthom when you are on the meds but the reason you feel better about you and probably care a little less about Mr CT is the emotional numbing and the amphetamine feeling of the drug. This is not a reason to remain on them though as just like our MLCers we need to face this journey as ourselves. If you were drinking everyday to numb the pain you would be correct in thinking that you are self medicating and it was not the answer. The meds are really no different. Just because the pills are prescribed by a doctor does not mean its not the same. Methadone is prescribed by doctors. Does not mean it is the right way to get over heroin addiction. Its a crutch. You are obviously a strong intelligent women and your natural brain is more than sufficient to see you through this.   

I find talking this through with a clear sober mind , on this forum or even a therapist is the best way to deal with this. When I have had spells where I drink or foolishly shared some weed with a friend recently it gave short term relief but the problem was still there and felt even worse when i sobered up.

I know it sounds like I am preaching and I do not expect you to agree with my humble opinion but I hate these meds and what they have done not just to my W but others who I know take them.   You do what you need to do to get through this but if you can do it as you it I think the outcome will be better for all parties involved.   

x

[Braincell77]

The longest I have found in my research (and this is not to rain on your parade, because it is rare), was a female lawyer who went off of Lexapro I think cold turkey, and it was around 4 years for her from start to finish.  Lost her marriage (obviously he wasn't a stander) and pretty much everything else.  Said she tried cases and won them, but had no recollection of doing it!  I'll dig out the link and post it, just need to find it again.  Luckily, just like with MLC, few rarely get "stuck in the tunnel" for life, from what I've read, and the long end is not unlike it is for MLC.  Standing actions are mostly the same.  For some of us where it's obvious this was at least a factor, that can bring peace in the storm.

RT2

I agree , standing actions are the same. It is really the same sh*t , different brand!!

I spent the first 4.5 months being there, lifting her to work, she even used me for sex!!     Reasons i done this......pave the way and to educate her about what the meds had done to her. It did not work due to the  spell binding effect of the drugs but I did call her doctor and she is weaning off the meds. She is weaning off but to quickly and as expected her behaviour in withdrawal worsened. The alienator appeared for a start!!  I have noted that her moods seem to go in 6 week cycles. 6 Weeks after starting to wean we had a touch and go which lasted nearly two weeks including sex and inviting me to stay for sunday lunch

Then went very cold and circled away to dating and the alienator. Another 6 weeks has passed and she has started to call. 4 times already this week about BS when up to this point I was getting short blunt text messages. The waves and windows of withdrawal is something I have studied and she may be following the script.

It is still a long drawn out process and the standing actions on this wonderful site work whether it be natural MLC or an SSRI crisis. I am also more than aware that the SSRI,s have just initiated a genuine MLC but am convinced from anecdotal evidence stretching back to 2007 on the SSRI thread that once the SSRI is removed from the mix most cases see an end to the replay stage of the crisis as the energy source is removed. Then it is around 18 months which is the liminality and the rebirth stage.

I know i sound like a conspiracy theorist but I have enough evidence from real people and Professors of psychiatry to trust their and my knowledge over the simple GP's or MD's that just farm these out without knowing sh*t about them.

If i have trouble with my tooth I go to the dentist......If I am having mental issues I would go to a therapist. A GP is not qualified  enough in mental health to start giving me mind altering drugs without even testing my levels. It is slap dash and is ruining families across the world.         

[Breakingthecycle]

Braincell, this is very interesting......! 

[Orion]

A question Braincell from the other side: I am the one on serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitor (SARI) class med (Trazodone) provided by the psychiatrist in small (1/2) dose primarily for its hypnotic effects to restore some sleep and secondary for its anxiolytic ones. Sleep is restored and I am now fully functional. My W was against it as she said it made me more angry which is absolutely not true. I felt far more angry before it took action. In contrast I believe it made her angry because I was less responsive to her drama. In that sense it helped me a lot to detach.
Now the psychiatrist suggests to increase it to normal dose but I am a bit sceptic because a) I am in principle against drugs unless necessary (sleeping poorly for days was slowly destroying me) b) at a certain point you need to try to stop rely on them so that your organism takes over. I must say it did not have any other obvious side effects and  libido is not influenced at all.Do you have an opinion on the specific class of meds?
   

[CrazyTrain]

Braincell:  I appreciate your insight into all of this and I do not think you were preaching at all!  I have been telling myself that I need to get off of the meds anyway.  I want to feel better without the help of the meds.  I have been working out and I know that has a lot to do with how I am feeling, hence the talk I want to have with my doctor.  Thank you again for your insight and knowledge on this topic!  I find it very interesting!!

CT     

[Braincell77]

K

A question Braincell from the other side: I am the one on serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitor (SARI) class med (Trazodone) provided by the psychiatrist in small (1/2) dose primarily for its hypnotic effects to restore some sleep and secondary for its anxiolytic ones. Sleep is restored and I am now fully functional. My W was against it as she said it made me more angry which is absolutely not true. I felt far more angry before it took action. In contrast I believe it made her angry because I was less responsive to her drama. In that sense it helped me a lot to detach. I
Now the psychiatrist suggests to increase it to normal dose but I am a bit sceptic because a) I am in principle against drugs unless necessary (sleeping poorly for days was slowly destroying me) b) at a certain point you need to try to stop rely on them so that your organism takes over. I must say it did not have any other obvious side effects and  libido is not influenced at all.Do you have an opinion on the specific class of meds?
   

Hi mate

Serotonin antagonist and reuptake inhibitor or SARI,s act in two ways. They prevent the reuptake of serotonin like a standard SSRI but they also prevent serotonin from binding to the cell receptors.

I think if your comfortable on your present dose why go up in dose? If you need to go up in dose then that must mean that you are getting resistant to your present dose. The only way is up.

The other reason is the therapist wants some more commission by doubling your dose!!

On a serious note I personally believe long term use can cause damage and that includes SARI,s. They still mess with the balance of neurotransmitters in much the same way as street drugs and even the experts can not really say how they work (I swear to god this is true, they only have theories) so how can they know what the long term effects are.

I think the sleeping element must be caused by the serotonin not binding to the receptors as an SSRI merely prevents reuptake and certainly does not act as a sleep aid.

I will look into this. There are quite a few accounts of mania caused by Trazodone so it has got the ability to go the other way.

Really that should tell you all you need to know about these meds. They send you to sleep but send others manic. Same medication so why?...........because everyone has different hormone levels to start with.

I think you should taper off if possible and maybe try to use exercise to tire yourself out. I have bunked off the gym this month so am in no position to question your exercise regime but I know it helps me and I have really noticed the downturn in my sleeping and my mood these last three weeks.

Research about them and you wil get an understanding of the dark side of the whole pharma industry. Google Trazodone Mania and people such as David Healey, Helen Fisher or Peter Breggin. Ben Goldacre is now causing a ripple exposing the farcical clinical testing procedure. To obtain licensing you can just withold the bad results produce a few studies showing a generally positive outcome over a period of maximum 12 weeks.

GP,s then allow someone to be prescribed them for three years without ever running a three year clinical test for safety............oh yeah and they are not REALLY sure how they work either but they worked alright in about 38% of the clinical trial subjects so yeah go ahead take it.

Not for me thanks.........Sorry everyone rant over. Orion come off them dude. Your strong enough to sort it on your own thats why your on this forum searching for knowledge and understanding. I know it hurts like hell but you know what thats natural and our minds have a way of sorting themselves by expressing and processing information. We do nit need drugs to do that.

[Orion]

I think if your comfortable on your present dose why go up in dose? If you need to go up in dose then that must mean that you are getting resistant to your present dose. The only way is up.

Thanks for the info Braincell. You confirmed my worries. I followed the psychiatrist advice to increase it to see more its anxiolytic effects. She also said that half dose considering that I am a big guy shouldn't be a problem, but I see no reason to continue relying on this. I do not think she does it for commission -it's a very cheap generic drug.

The other thing she told me is that there is a delay of a couple of weeks for the drug to take full effect. So maybe I will give it a try until the end of holidays and then discuss with her a plan to gradually diminish the dose and eventually stop it.

thanks again and take care,
Orion

[Madmax]

Very interesting thread.  Here's my story.  My h has never taken AD before his MLC.  He won't even take his cholesterol meds.  I on the other hand have been on Wellbutrin for many years after having my own major depressive episode.  I immediately felt more in control of my emotions and came out of the fog.  Maybe I would have anyway without the meds.  I was tapering off, but my neurologist is keeping me on it because of migraines. I've been diagnosed hypothyroid and have been on meds for that for a year.  Night and day!  Once I went on synthroid my migraines and depression disappeared and my libido went thru the roof!  Unfortunately, my h isn't around to enjoy  . Convinced my h to get his thyroid checked and his levels were supposedly normal.  More than one test is usually needed, though.

Still plan to taper off Wellbutrin, but I must admit that it has been helpful.  My h said  he took my Wellbutrin for a few weeks when I was gone this summer.  This was after BD.  He said it didn't do anything for him except give him headaches and lowered his libido.  Good!  But that's not a side effect of Wellbutrin. I've been trying to get him to go on AD and seek help, but after reading this thread, I'm not going to encourage him anymore.

Thanks for the info!

[Braincell77]

MM

Welbutrin is actually given to counter the libido issue that many SSRIs cause so in theory it should not effect emotions as deeply as other SSRIs. Imo Celexa, paxil and effexor are the worst for emotional blunting. This is what leads to relationship problems. I believe welbutrin works on dopamine levels so used for a short time it should not numb emotions. Long term use will screw your head up though. I would advise to keep H away from ssris as they will not assist recovery. Numbing the  emotions would slow down progression for most imo.

[lawprofessor]

Hi All!

 I am quite sure Genius never took AD or mood pills or herbals.  Heavens he shouted like a man who had had his winkey  cut off when I suggested he take some vitamins and perhaps see the doctor about his male  issue! Or should I say lack of male issue for the record.

I find this thread interesting but to be the bare beginnings of research.Perhaps for some of you the AD timing is a relevant factor in the crisis.  However, being a lawyer and a former medical worker I am loathe to read about anyone giving advice to others concerning adjusting or stopping their medication.  I am of the opinion old school though it may be, that decisions such as that should only be decided in consultation with medical supervision.

That said, I would like to share with you all my thoughts and experiences on medication and the end of a MLC.  Now please bear in mind I am only speaking to the stage of Depression and later. 


As some of you know I am going through that with J.  He elected to get help.  For those of you who have not experienced that stage, it is horrific.  I cringe when I read other posters who think their partner is entering that stage.  I can tell the good majority of then it is not so because the nightmare is not there.  It is not just depression but DEPRESSION.  The person doesn't function, thinks about and plans ways to kill himself.  It is thought through to the minutest detail.  There is no up time and virtually no anger.  They may replay certain sad songs over and over, while crying.  They are exhausted, sleep or try to as much as possible, have no interest in activities of daily living, sleep only minutes at a time before being up again tossing and turning, not have feelings or care for almost anything.  J did not have the energy or desire to even go to the store for pet food.  I literally tossed him out of bed and forced him bodily to take care of that.  Same with work. I dressed and undressed him many times.  I got him out of bed daily, picked fights, forced him to go.  "You made the child now get up!  She needs her child support!  If I have to come in here one more time I will pick up the mattress and throw you onto the floor!"  I took over almost all his household duties as he was still at his own apartment.  He showered only when I demanded or dumped water on him. 

By the end of a few weeks of the above, his anxiety was making him physically sick.  He had a plan and collected the necessary tools to kill himself.  He was serious.  I involved his mother, his siblings, his ex-wife and children.  I was fully prepared to have him institutionalized.  He had the choice.  He ended up going to the doctor of his own choosing.  The doctor put him on AD and they were a God send.  Within a short time he was a different person, willing to do the work he needed to heal.  I believe without them he would be dead. 

And YES he is and has been able to do the work on himself.  He can feel and understand.  He has made significant progress on rebuilding himself and his life all while taking AD.

I do not wish to argue with you, Braincell, but I find the comments about being strong enough to sort on your own to be a bit offensive.  I believe you probably mean those to be encouraging, but it is actually a strength in my opinion to know when you need medical help and seek it. 

Again, my thoughts only go towards the later stages and I have no experience with a MLCer taking them at other stages or prior to BD.

 I believe in Heart's Blessing's writing she also states "Some are in so much pain, they commit suicide, some get smart and get anti-depressants to help them begin to clear their thinking processes, some suffer in silence, thinking nobody understands them or will understand what they are going through-and so it goes on.  Thoughts?