[Trustandlove]

From my own situation I can say that addictions definitely played a role, and what Nah said about the OW (or OP, actually) being the "answer" to their misery also resonates, and yes, it may well be another addiction.

I left it out of this discussion as I was separating it from the OW.  The OW in this case may not realise what his issues are, or she may know and say that it was all because he was so unhappy with me, who knows. She may not even care.   Best not to even speculate, I think. 

He said he felt such relief when he "realised" that the whole problem was me, that there was nothing wrong with him, no depression, nothing else, the misery was all due to me.... 

He may well still believe that, as he may have convinced himself that it is my fault he doesn't really have a relationship with the children, and much else.   My children have told me that he does seem to find a way to blame me; he once famously told our D that I ruined his relationship with OW5 (I had never met her, never talked about her, and so on). 

As to the OW?  I don't know if this one is another addiction, or if this one just offered another convenient way out of having to face himself (or is that the same thing?); I would have thought an OP had a purpose if it helps them to see that we aren't the problem, or if it helps them to hit the proverbial rock bottom and decide (key word there:  decide) to seek help/get better; as it stands I just keep out of the way.

[megogirl]

I have never heard RCR say that, Mego.

That most get through it within a few years?
Where did she say that?  Maybe you can refer me to that article.

Thunder,

The article in question was "An Affair Down Alienator is an Advantage to a Stander."  In it she says,

Remember that MLC is a journey and that your MLCer will likely come through the tunnel within a few years.  I know that seems like a long time, but it is what it is.

I never forgot that (not unlike most of what she's written!)

[Anon]

I'm surprised addiction hasn't come up yet (unless I missed it).

I often called The Leaver the trophy carrying MLCer, he fits every stereotype to the extreme (Harley Davidson, red sports car, young blonde coworker, the list goes on and on and on)

Is there a difference between MLC and addictions?  I'm not so sure.

Addictions has come up very briefly Nah,,,,

From Post #55:

I’m not convinced he working anything out in that relationship and think it’s purely based on addiction and a need to avoid himself and his demons.

This is MLC in a nutshell.  Addiction is often, if not always an aspect of MLC.   The addiction helps them keep unconsciously distance from their unresolved issues. 

[Mortesbride]

I think another important question to ask ourselves, particularly for those ''in MLC'' for over a decade or more....

When is it still a ''MLC'' and not just a new lifestyle choice?

Are we the one's who get to determine that? If so, are we still claiming they are in MLC because we can't accept reality?

[megogirl]

What Mort said

I don't believe that anyone is in MLC for over a decade.

I believe it's denial/wishful thinking.

[Thunder]

Would you like to start a new thread, Anon?   

[Anjae]

Standing, in a way, my aunt is a long term MLCer. She never had OM nor destroyed the marriage, but she told her boyfriend endless lies about her mother, my grandmother. She bought her own lies, he also did. He is my age, more than 20 years younger than her. She also sold him many lies about the rest of the family.

The lies about my grandmother had mostly stop since she die and the ones my aunt told about herself haven't been much spoken since she had a stroke last year. The whole family used to stare at my aunt in disbelief of the things she used to say. She is still with the boyfriend, she no longer have what could be considered MCL behaviours, even because the effects of cancer and the stroke do not allow for it, but she and MLC partner never separated.

It is a huge mistake to remain with a MLC partner, regardless of the existence of an affair, none of the two people is able to grow properly. As how and why my aunt managed to believe her own lies, who knows.

And Replay is not the totality of the crisis process is it?

No it isn't. Replay is a the last sub-stage of Separation, RCR first stage of MLC. There are three more stages aftewards, Liminality, Rebirth and Re-integration.

If the later stages are about insight and some kind of internal resolution, who is to say that this resolution draws them any closer to the life they had before?

No one, other than pretty much every single story on HS that has a reconnecting/reconciled MLCer and who mentions other MLCers known by the LBS. My real life experience with several MLCers tells the same, they all tried to reconnect with their previous life, the exception being the one like myself whose crisis come after a spouse MLC or because of a normal divorce. But the ones who had a crisis because of a normal divorce remained friends with their ex-spouse.

If a MLCer does not try to make amends of any sort, they are not out of MLC. Try to make amends does not equal reconciliation.

Thank you for the info on Dragonfly's husband, Trust.


Mr J's crisis also isn't all about OW. OW is, in a way, the least of it, even if OW, especially OW2, who go him the lawyers and pusehd fron court, making things much worst. The main issue with Mr J's crisis is his MLC lifestyle and his many adoring fans. Also the fact he had suffered no real consequences.


Addiction has come up, Nah. Not in a major way, but it has. The only thing Mr J could be addicted to since he was a teen is music. He never did drugs or drink (aside for the odd glass) before MLC. Drinking is a MLC thing for him.


Heroin does not help an addict. At first it is said it is fantastic, soon it will start to destroy the person.

When is it still a ''MLC'' and not just a new lifestyle choice?

When MLC behaviour is still present. Monster, etc. An out of MLC person will not monster and will have gained awareness. They no longer consider LBS and often kids, the enemy, they no longer behave like a MLCer. They may have a new life, but their behaviour towards the LBS will change.

No, nothing to do with denial. MLC does last a very long time, including a decade or more.

RCR has not updated many, if not all, of the articles in a very long time. RCR is not the best source for long term MLC, HB is better on the matter.

I truly hope those of you who do not believe MLC does not last 10 or more do not end up with a long term MLCer.

[MyBrainIsBroken]

If you believe, as I do, that the alienator represents the person the MLCer had difficulty with during their childhood (my wife's om is very much like her abusive, narcissistic deceased father and her crisis started shortly after her father died), then the initial purpose of the alienator is to give the MLCer the unconditional love they didn't get during their childhood from the person the alienator represents.

I believe the MLC will progress through stages but the MLCer may not reach every stage and may try multiple alienators before moving on to the next stage.

Stage 1- the MLCer believes the alienator loves them unconditionally, thus fulfilling their fantasy of making the difficult childhood person love them unconditionally.

Stage 2 - alienators are just as broken as the difficult person from the MLCer's childhood, meaning the alienator is not capable of unconditionally loving the MLCer. In stage 2 the MLCer comes to realize the alienator doesn't really love them unconditionally. At this point the MLCer may search for another alienator or may enter limbo.

Stage 3 - the beginning of the end of the MLC. The MLCer begins to realize that it isn't their fault that the alienator (difficult person from childhood) doesn't (didn't) love them. The MLCer slowly accepts that they aren't (weren't) the problem and they begin to work on developing self love and self esteem.

Stage 4 - the MLCer accepts who and what they are and have been, decides that they are ok, and the MLC is over.

The purpose of the alienator is to allow the MLCer to work through their childhood problems which is why just any alienator won't work. The MLCer has to leave the LBS because the LBS is usually the opposite of the difficult person from the MLCer's childhood so the LBS can't help the MLCer work through their childhood problems.

The ironic thing about this crisis is that many of the LBSes on this forum do seem to love the MLCer unconditionally or else we wouldn't still be standing after so much time has passed, but that love isn't good enough because the LBS doesn't and can't represent the person who damaged the MLCer.

[Anon]

New thread:  https://mlcforum.theherosspouse.com/index.php?topic=10907.new#new