[Roma]

I shared my story as I felt many didn't have the first hand knowledge of what is going on w/ their MLCer and OW from his perspective.

With my H there was no actual OW yet an object he felt/feels these feelings for. So it appears that in MLC, it doesn't even have to be a real person they have this addiction for.

He told me himself a few times that he was 'addicted' or explained to me he had an 'addictive personality'.

From reading I see the MLCer's emotions are numb, so the 'OW' love is not real. It never really made sense to me, how he could feel something with ''OW' and not for me any longer.

I am not sure about 'limerance' yet I see him chasing something like a 'high' from a drug. When I asked him what he thinks, that he is confusing that feeling with love because of a chemical in his brain. That he is addicted to the 'high' it's producing.

It appears he agrees with me, yet went back it anyway. Addiction can be very hard to beat.

People can call it what they want yet it's real, as far as my H situation.

Anjae, my H is like yours in that he just doesn't ever rest. His depression keeps him awake.

[MoreWillBeRevealed]

1trouble, your H could be my STBX's twin. I have been convinced he's using but the way you describe it all now I'm not all that sure. I do know STBX is seriously stressed out and broken. He never told me he loved OW or she was a soul mate or anything. But, he may have been sparing further hurt. I think in his crazy MLC mind he believes they were supposed to reunite and spend their lives together. However, he's not telling all our friends he's madly in love or anything. He might as well be using crack because his life and looks are that of a crackhead. Since BD he has made sure I'm ok financially and didn't completely abandon our S5. In fact, he gave me $150 today for final D filing. I thought he'd stall but he seems like he's doing it to make me happy. God forbid he admit he still loves or cares for me.

I miss the H I fell in love with but there's no love lost with this version of him. It's just amazing these OW even want to be with these men. They are truly broken and addicted themselves.

[sparklestar]

Sparklestar, I tried to find your thread but couldn't find it. I am just curious, was your H always an addict/alcoholic? Or, did he start the cocaine at MLC? My STBX has a history of crack addiction but when we meet and the duration of our marriage he was clean and did recovery 12 steps. STBX is dramatically thin and I am convinced using but no one believes me. Others only comment how bad and sickly he looks. STBX used crack the entire time he was with OW 10 years ago. She's supposedly been clean 10 years. It just infuriates me STBX won't admit using and others are cosigning his lies. OW was definitely a drug for him and probably still is.

Hi More,

No serious addiction to coke in teh past - he used it now and again when we first met then not for years and years to my knowledge its only in teh last year or so - I found out about a month before BD but didnt realise teh extent only after BD did more come out - he isnt addicted I dont think but was using it more. He was also always at teh gym so gym addiction BUT that is where his dealer was so could be that?  He definitely aged and looked very tired very quickly over teh last year - you can really see it in pics.  So I dont know if drugs caused MLC or MLC caused drug pull? 

Interestingly the chemicals in 'limerance' (Dopamine) are exactly the same as a cocaine high - same process / pathway. So there is definitley a connection between the 'high'

1Trouble - interesting your H refers to the OW as 'that girl' mine does too. He is actually quite disparaging about her at times, neither 1 or anyone else have never heard anything remotely close to 'its love'

[1trouble]

Interestingly the chemicals in 'limerance' (Dopamine) are exactly the same as a cocaine high - same process / pathway. So there is definitley a connection between the 'high'

Infatuation works the same way on the brain as limerence, as I have said before I don't think MLC'ers are limerent, they are infatuated IMO.

 Its my belief (certainly in my case - cant speak for others) that my H, (who showed clear signs of what I now know to be Anhedonia before he left) was very depressed and so the infatuation 'high' would have been more intense than it would be in someone who was infatuated and not depressed and so similar to the extremes of limerence.

My therapist felt MLC was the same as post natal depression, (its a depression based chemical imbalance )
And interestingly there has been a few people on here who have had post natal depression and done similar things to those in MLC, Sewing is one that comes to mind.

My therapist also said because the amygdala (our emotional centre) is involved its impossible for someone in MLC to build any emotional connection to the AP, it really is all about brain chemicals.  Some MLC'ers may articulate their 'high' to love but really the AP has made them "feel" something when they have felt numb for a very long time, so they think because their spouse cant make them feel anything and the AP has, its "lurve", at least some do.

My H has always realised its not, but that hasn't stopped him taking us to the brink of D to placate the OW.
And actually I think the reason my H knew it wasn't love is because of his previous drug use.  On some level he knew the difference between love and a high.
As I have mentioned before, in previous posts, LettingGo (a previous LBS with a great understanding of all this $hite) had a theory that MLC'ers with previous addiction problems (drinking, drugs, gambling etc.) were more susceptible to the AP high and were more likely to go for the nuttier AP type (BPD) too because there is far more drama and high and low extremes.....and that's certainly borne out in my case and some of the stories I've come across.
My H's OW is a total nutjob and I really think in the beginning it was the danger of being involved with someone who really didn't give a fig about anyone or anything that was so exciting to my H......note I said in the beginning because over time I saw him being more and more scared of her reactions and now I think he is starting to feels trapped and wondering what the hell he has done and is doing, but that's for him to sort out.

Someone put this link on my thread in Nov 2015, at the time I never looked at it but I did some time later and found it a very powerful way of describing just what depression feels like. 
Here is the link, its a blog written by someone who experiences depression and she has made this animation to describe how she felt
http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/depression-part-two.html

This is just one article which along with what I have researched, my experience and knowledge of cocaine, the help from my therapist and the wealth of information on here which made me realise there is nothing I can do to help my H, this has to play out, the chemical imbalance, OW hold etc.  will start to wane.  This article helped me have compassion and empathy.  I know H will come to me when he's ready (as he did when he finally realised he would kill himself if he carried on taking coke years ago).

OW was a lifejacket to H, she made him 'feel' ......but over time the relationship needs more and more drama and just like coke, no matter how much you take, the highs are less and the come downs happen quicker and last longer.


So now getting back to the thread subject (sorry ready)

I  listened to some of Joe Beams broadcast (not all yet) and the bit I heard does seem very similar to the last broadcast and there are some marked similarities to MLC in what he says in this broadcast and the last one.

I was very interested in the statistics he gave for the reasons he sees people on his marriage courses and the high statistic he gave for limerence.

I was surprised there was no mention of MLC though, so I went on his site and did a search for the term midlife and crisis and there is nothing on his marriage site about this which seems a bit odd.
I have my theory (just based on what I've heard from him) that those stats he gives for limerence causing marriage problems may also include MLC too.

Maybe he had a midlife crisis but for some reason its more palatable to him to think it was limerence, this could explain why he didn't go back to his wife for 2 years after limerence ended.

I would have thought, as his affair partner ended the affair it may have meant for a while he would have pined after her BUT I would have thought the limerent brain chemicals would have subsided within a few months.

And I just find it strange, someone with his knowledge and extensive research doesn't talk about midlife crisis as much as he talks about limerence.
or maybe someone who has listened to more of his broadcasts can tell me differently, as I said I have only listened to a few.

I do find there are some interesting similarities between MLC and limerence.
When Air put the previous link on here last year I typed out the transcript and found Joe Beams description of how people bond in a limerent relationship quite interesting as well as his description of cognitive dissonance which helped me really understand that concept.
I also came across another article on limerence a while back which I have posted below
________________________________________________________________
For reasons we don't yet fully understand, not everyone experiences limerence. People who do may experience it only once and then move onto a healthy relationship, or may fall into a lifelong pattern of obsessive relationships. Like drug addicts, some chase that lovesick feeling at the expense of their careers, families and health. Those who cannot let go of the intensity and euphoria of romantic love may be struggling with relationship, romance or love addiction. Behaviors may become dangerous, such as stalking or unwanted contact, and require outpatient or residential love addiction treatment, professional counseling and/or 12-step work.
Predictably, limerence shares little in common with the stable and solid kind of love that fortifies healthy long-term relationships. Limerent beginnings certainly can morph into sustainable partnerships, but often they beget heartbreak. 
Unlike love, limerence is not a choice. It ambushes us. The choice lies in whether we act on it, and how. Either we allow limerence to derail our goals and betray our relationships, or else we use it as an opportunity to re-evaluate our priorities and initiate positive changes.
Perhaps there are 2 parts to the question as to why do we get limerence - why are we attracted to certain people and then why do some of us get stuck in an obsessive loop?
As for the first part- what drives attraction?
•   Its a biological drive to reproduce
•   We are replaying relationships from our early lives where we were wounded, hoping we get a better outcome this time around
•   We are seeking validation and love
•   A bunch of other stuff that drives attractive - facial features, voice, smell, pheromones, gait and all the unconscious stuff we are just not aware of
As for why do we get stuck in limerence, again its multifactorial:
•   Limerents have significant early life trauma that sets us up with behaviors that are limerent sensitising such as low self esteem, obsessive behaviour, addictive tendencies, codependency, love addiction, etc
•   We go through a life crisis that makes us vulnerable and drives us to seek external validation
•   Mid-life transitions / crisis is a big driver for some of us
•   We hook into an avoidant personality of an LO - this drives the push -pull relationship that sends us bat$h!te crazy with uncertainty and is the rocket fuel for limerence
•   Our LO's are high on the narc scale so they use us as narcissistic supply - we experience behaviours are likely similar to the environments we grew up in and so feel familiar and comfortable, even though they are toxic and soul destroying
•   Maybe we have structural abnormalities in our brains that predisposes us to limerence?
•   Other yet to be discovered factors - the reality is we don't know diddly squat as to why do some of us experience limerence.
The therapeutic community is ignorant to limerence, 99% have never heard of it and most just write it off as a crush. LIMERENCE IS NOT A CRUSH. Until there is a wider acceptance of the impact and number of people that are impacted, little progress will be made.

[Roma]

Thanks for the transcript 1T, 'Limerance'  makes more sense to me now.

[Thunder]

Wow 1t, that animated article that person sent you was the BEST thing I've every read to explain how a person in a depression feels.  I think it may help a lot of people dealing with a depressed person. too.
You just can't "cheer" them out of it.

Thank you so much for posting that.   

[sparklestar]

1T - My H had symptoms of Anhedonia too. In fact when I first caught him out with the texts to OW he actually said he was just trying to 'feel something' then in a tearful heap he went on to say how he just felt nothing all the time, he didn't feel anything for his parents and he was 'acting' everyday. He said he didn't feel like he should etc etc. He had been using cocaine for quite sometime then though I would say recreationally but that's enough for anhedonia to have manifested.... a real mix of depression and possibly anhedonia and behaviours trying to 'feel something' v sad. Although he tried to cover up OW and isn't showing her of at all, he claims he isn't doing much drugs (totally played it down) and almost denies / dismisses the obvious signs of depression that I saw. I think that's classic running/escape and avoid behaviour because he couldn't stand facing it.....