[LearningIamOk]

Hello All! First, I want to let you know that Mamma Bear and her H are together and reconciling.

I also want to say that different view points are so necessary to everyone's healing. In the beginning, you have to be gentle and not crush the Newbies hopes that this MLC will just end at some point. We all hoped to find the magic formula to follow to just make this go away. Sadly, there is no formula. I wasn't ready to hear that early on. This isn't a game, and there are no rules. I realized this all too slowly in my opinion of myself.

People were gentle with me in the beginning. After it looked like I was wallowing too much and not having any forward momentum, posters like Stayed and Limitless (who was my Mentor), stopped sugar coating responses. It made me take a hard look at what I was doing and what was best for my healing. They helped me put me first in every equation.

I did pull the trigger on my M after 2 1/2 years. I had had enough. I felt I did everything I could to put my M back on track. I found the Forum, read the articles, books, counseling, and began GALing with a vengeance. I could look at myself in the mirror and know I did everything I could. xH just wanted, and still wants, nothing to do with me.

I found a great guy who has been in my life for over 5 years now. I learn a lot from him. He is kind, understanding, non-judgmental, supportive of my interests, and my favorite thing he ever said to me was "I love you, even when you don't love yourself". *sigh*

After all this time, and reflection, the only thing you can save is yourself. MLC came with a lot of gifts of knowledge and unexpected Silver Linings like new friends. Do I wish this had never happen, of course. But the life I am living now is pretty darn good. And I have an arsenal of knowledge at the ready to be able to help others who find themselves in the same sitch. I hope I am able to deliver it in a manner that will make people want to save themselves first. You only get one life, please don't let an MLCer steal the joy that is yours to find.

[1trouble]

Learning thank you for giving an update on Mama Bear

I have read her story on here and she was a truly funny gutsy woman, her humour even when she was going through some horrible times was totally inspirational.

Reading her thread kept me sane at some of the darkest times I am so happy she did reconcile
x

[Anjae]

Yes I have seen this in you Anjae and for this you have my respect.  I have never felt that you are deliberately being personal or blunt to cause conflict or to hurt feelings.  I have always felt you have good intentions.

Thank you, Light.

I wasn't. I am logical by nature (I tend to look at things from a logic point of view, not personal) and used to be very direct, blunt even. Being logical is sometimes complicated on more emotionnal situations. That is why I often say, to me this does not make sense, can you explain? And I remember telling a newbie male LBS straightforwardly that I was logical so he would have to tell me if I was being too much. He was very emotional and suffered from borderline.

You can grow a lot on your own, but you can never grow in a relationship without another person. 

True. But not everyone may want to grow in/with a relationship. And there are other types of relationships that allow people to grow, friendships, for example.

Even Anjae has made comments about the what if of MrJ, and he was physically abusive and one of the longer term ones here.

Indeed. Because it is a who knows what may happen. Of course Mr J would have to get professional help first. I don't think the physical abuse would still be there since it come with post-BD psychotic episodes, still, we would have to look for professional help.

But I am not waiting for him. I am going with the flow and what will be, since it is something I like and suits my needs and values, will be. Right now my mind is not exactly on romantic relationships. I was not after a boyfriend/relationship when Mr J and I become a couple, it happened.

No one I’ve been out or slept with has made me lose what I had for XW.  I guess that means it’s real, or possibly that I’m neurotic. 

I think it means it is real. 

[Tyks]

Learning, so nice to see you drop in and post
I am happy to hear that things are still going well for you !

[osb]

Haven't been on HS for few months, now catching up... this was a helluva thread. Loving to see all the familiar folks. I choose to elide over the angst, though; sometimes we old-timers seem all too bloody willing to see someone else's world through our own dammit-why-can't-you-see-the-world-the-way-I-see-it lenses. Different backstories, different choices, different goals.

Humbly, I do want to say I don't think it's possible for an LBS to have precipitated an MLC-er's crisis. An MLC-er feels overlooked and undervalued by the universe, not just by their partner. Looks, 'earning potential', responsibility within the home, lordly responsibility outside of the home... none of that seems to matter once you feel the ground slippery under your feet, your grip on reality loosens, and your crisis overtakes your reason. The last thing we LBSs need to do is to blame ourselves for someone else's damnfool choices. We all seem to have changed, after the MLCer left. We're stronger. Independent. Perhaps slower to trust? But that's our own growth spurt, not an effort to fix ourselves to lure a wayward spouse back, or to change the circumstances that precipitated their exit... that's crazy talk, they left because of their own issues and not ours, and they'll come back when they fix their issues, if we haven't outgrown them by then.

Went for a walk tonight to see the supermoon. Memories. There's a painting on our bedroom wall of lovers looking up at the moon, we bought it more than two decades ago, thought we were those lovers. Then a couple of weeks after BD, H and I went for a walk (what was I thinking?? denying reality), down to the river to see a huge moon... then I believe I stood too close to him (not quite being with the new program yet) and H exploded into yelling, who was I to think I could presume to stand next to him anymore (er, cue Sting and the Police?); he practically frog-marched me home, then marched himself out the door. That was the night I learned 'love' didn't mean all that much, in the big scheme of things. Took a long time, and a lot of full moon walks on my own, to make my peace with the moon; and then to realize - I might wax and wane like the moon, but like it, I am cool and calm, like it I am permanent and will outlast this noise. I don't need anyone. So slowly I learned to look past my H, stare up at the moon, and take the long view. Today my H and I are reconciled, but he still goes away on long trips; he's away just now. And I walked down to the river to look into the sky, take a deep breath and remind myself that I'm quite ok by myself.

For anyone who's still reading, I'd like to send you the moon. We're all going to be ok.

[serenity]

osb, thank you for that beautuful post

You said it all - whether we reconcile or not, we are changed and we will all be ok. We find our inner strength - strength we never knew we even had!!

I will look at the moon too and know that we are all connected

X

[xyzcf]

Still living in the shadow of his crisis and how that has impacted my life, I find it helpful to remind myself what osb has written. This is what rings true to me, bolded to remind myself...I am a casualty of his crisis, impacted when my world blew up and it is ok that there is still much rebuilding to do.

I don't think it's possible for an LBS to have precipitated an MLC-er's crisis.

An MLC-er feels overlooked and undervalued by the universe, not just by their partner. Looks, 'earning potential', responsibility within the home, lordly responsibility outside of the home... none of that seems to matter once you feel the ground slippery under your feet, your grip on reality loosens, and your crisis overtakes your reason. The last thing we LBSs need to do is to blame ourselves for someone else's damnfool choices.

But that's our own growth spurt, not an effort to fix ourselves to lure a wayward spouse back, or to change the circumstances that precipitated their exit... that's crazy talk, they left because of their own issues and not ours, and they'll come back when they fix their issues, if we haven't outgrown them by then.

I don't need anyone. So slowly I learned to look past my H, stare up at the moon, and take the long view. Today my H and I are reconciled, but he still goes away on long trips; he's away just now. And I walked down to the river to look into the sky, take a deep breath and remind myself that I'm quite ok by myself.

For anyone who's still reading, I'd like to send you the moon. We're all going to be ok.

You know how strange time is...sometimes it feels like time is going by very fast, other times it seems so slow and yet we know that time is just time.

Each person's ability to survive this "war" will be different, it will take each of us as long as it takes to heal.

Thanks osb.

[Songanddance]

I might wax and wane like the moon, but like it, I am cool and calm, like it I am permanent and will outlast this noise. I don't need anyone.

Osb - this so resonates with me. At this moment in my LBS journey I am struggling to see the point of continuing with H's reconnection. I see something that might work but then I really feel as though I don't need anyone and I don't need my H either.

And I walked down to the river to look into the sky, take a deep breath and remind myself that I'm quite ok by myself.

I am lucky to have a river at the bottom of my garden - I think this every morning as I wander down there with my morning coffee.

[HeartTattoo]

Thank you, OSB, for your lovely writing, & for reminding us of some important points, conveniently highlighted by XYZ. There was a whiff of victim-blaming in this thread & that needed banishing.

I don’t think anyone here has proposed that their pre-BD M’s were perfect. No one person is perfect/no M is perfect. But many (most?) of us had very good M’s, some of us for many decades. We weathered challenges, as all M’s do.

I could easily self-blame: I didn’t appreciate him enough, I didn’t compliment enough, I didn’t boost his ego enough. And so…he found someone else to do that so nicely. Thanks for the reminder that we didn’t cause this, we couldn’t have prevented it, we can’t fix it.

The strength we find post-BD doesn’t mean our M’s were holding us back in some way. It is the strength anyone with a healthy core pulls up to deal with a crisis—when a child is seriously ill, when we face our own serious illness, when natural disaster strikes our homes. We have to get strong; the other choice is to wither or die.

And we don’t change in order to fix our M’s. How can we when we don’t have a clue what the problem is? The MLCer doesn’t understand what is “wrong” either & typically gives absurd explanations for walking out the door: (recalling some of the greatest hits here) The dog is too fat. Your ironing board takes up too much space. You support health care reform. “Undervalued by the universe”—OSB’s eloquent way of defining the crisis that gets expressed as “I am so unhappy in this M” …& with the dog, the household furnishings, your political views, etc, etc.

[stayed]

Perfectly said Osb! No victim blaming just reality. No MLC blaming either, sad part of our prosperous world reality.
Great seeing you all again.
Hugs Stayed