[Treasur]

Fwiw I think agape love helps us to reach the bit of ourselves that can try to take it less personally and wish them no harm. But when you are collateral damage, and often unacknowledged or unvalidated as that, it takes real effort. I suspect we have to feel safe enough from further damage first to get there.

And feeling agape love does not necessarily need an active relationship of any sort with that person or any action on our part probably except from maybe choosing to 'do no harm' maybe.  If the situation changes, it may be something to draw on that might help any kind of reconnection, no matter how limited, but it isn't the same as an active intimate love or even a reciprocal loving friendship imho.

[trusting]

My understanding of agape love is it doesn't require anything from the person being loved - no strings attached.  One thing that helped me have a "friendship" with my MLCer is when I finally got to the point of truly understanding that he didn't have much (or anything) to give me, not while he was in crisis.  I stopped expecting anything.  They don't know how to maintain healthy relationships of any sort in crisis state.  I certainly don't invest the same amount of energy as I would with a "real" friend, one who will reciprocate.  I will say as his crisis winds down, his ability to give has improved.   

I think that keeping distance is good if it is needed to preserve our hearts and our mental health.

[readytofixmyselffirst]

Hello,

I am reading the posts and I don't think it is fair or kind to attack the beliefs and faith of another that posts on this site.

I was in the military for slightly over a decade. When we discussed military strategy, it has been determined that in a company of soldiers (between 100- 160 soldiers ) five soldiers would determine the outcome. Most would be hiding. Shooting into the air, only five would take their time to carefully aim and fire.

Now the question is? Which five? No one knows. The brave soldier of today could run tomorrow. The one crying behind the tree last week could lead the charge.

The point is that we can't even predict our own behavior in a given circumstance let alone the behaviors of others.

This site should be about building and supporting each other. I give advice, I empathize, and I support the decisions made by people, many of whom are in great pain.

I  continue to believe that he could come home one day.

What a beautiful statement and I truly hope it comes true. You are and always will be a remarkable person. I still have the cd you sent me and you were an inspiration at my darkest moments. I have never forgotten and will always be in your debt.

I also see that you are in therapy and you are working on yourself. That is noteworthy and I hope you continue to get better.

I wished I had some answers, but I don't. After the divorce, my ex invited me to spend Christmas with her up in Washington. I declined because I knew me feelings were too strong and it would be awkward at best. Was she signaling something? I don't know. Wished I could read the tea leaves. She never contacted me after that.

Now, I just try each day to make the world a little better for the people around me and as long as my intent is sound, I am content.

((((Hugs))))

Ready
 

[Mitzpah]

Thanks Ready for your kind words

 My love for my husband transcends this crisis - each one of us knows what we can put up with. It is obvious that there is no marriage in my case and there hasn't been since before Bd for him and since Bd for me. I chose to stand and pray for my husband regardless of what he would do.

I don't really claim to have a "knowing" that my h. is coming home - only today, my mother prophesied over me - he will be back. IDK, it is not in her hands, nor mine. It is the hands of God whom I serve.

My way of dealing with my husband arises out of respect, honor and love for him, as well as knowing that my kids benefit from a friendly relationship between us.

Agape love - yes! Eros - on my part, yes! Phillia - yes! Pragma - yes!!!

As I have said before - my life goes on, I have responsibilities to my family, my church family and my job - I need to be healthy and in one piece to carry these out for as long as I live, right?

Sterile, loveless existence - in terms of a husband yes - I feel it keenly, however, I have a lot to do, which is probably a good thing

Over eight years of this is tiring, so I can empathize with Xyzcf, Anjae, Trustandlove and Trusting as they have been at this even longer and are alone as I am.

It is good to see that Anjae is feeling alive and joyful - I have moments like this, often when I am with my whole family (yes, including h.  ).

Perhaps this is the way life will go for me?  There are worst things.

Got to get ready to go the cinema with d23...

[Believer]

It’s nice to have a spot for those of us who have been at this for a long time. I certainly didn’t anticipate how long I’d be on this journey. It’s been almost ten years, and I believe he’s still in replay.

I learned before Christmas that my MLCer is getting married this summer to the OW.  They are “mountain biking” their way into the sunset.

We talk very little, I try to check in with him periodically however he’s uncomfortable in my presence.
I recently reached out to him to have coffee and chat about our daughter and MIL. He responded that he’d failed me and others. However, he’s also learned not to judge people, but rather to accept them as they are including himself. He closed stating that the sadness I’ve experienced was his responsibility, and he finds my strength inspiring.

I suspect I won’t hear from him anytime soon. I was surprised that he was getting married - it kinda knocked me off my footings. As a result I decided to follow up with my therapist to help work through this.
 
I like you still believe in my MLCer and our marriage. I’m not interested in another relationship at this time, perhaps not ever.

However, Ready I’m so happy to hear how your life is being blessed with a new Mrs.Ready. You have always been a true gentleman and wonderful father  - you deserve a the very best.

For now I’m focused on reframing his upcoming marriage so I can get my feet back under me.

When it’s been such a long time it’s really difficult for others to understand how I can still believe in my MLCer so having you guys is so valuable. A safe and supportive place to land :-)







 

[Anjae]

MItz, I would be miserable if I had crisis Mr J around me. There were years of his crisis self constat presence one way or another - mostly not physical, but e-mail, etc. It was hell.

The only thing I feel for Mr J at time, if I see a picture where he looks more like his old self, is physical attraction. However, that is rare since mostly he looks like a bad version of FIL.

Lets see. Love? No. Respect? No. Honour? No. Impossible to have any of those things for the existing person. For the former person, a vague gentle sweat love.

I am alone because, so far, no one I liked and find suitable come along. If it will, I don't think I will be alone. I very much would like a new partner/husband. But I am not going to have one just because.


Hi Believer, nice to see another Old Timer posting. Seems there are more of us with long time/very long time MLCers.

If your husband just married the OW he is most likely still in Replay. Or he felt Liminality/rock bottom aproaching and did something that provide a high for a while longer.

[Believer]

Sorry Anjae I wasn’t  clear. My MLCer will be getting married this coming summer.
Yes, I agree still in replay or as you say felt a bit of rock bottom and needed something to fix that.

I can appreciate what you say about your feelings for the present version they are.  Sorry feel nothing for you honey. In the rare moments there is a glint of my old h I can feel my heart warm.

[Anjae]

If your MLCer is going to get married this coming Summer, maybe he never will. I have a friend who has been having a MLC for years. Not a very agressive MLC and he was single when it hit (he was long divorced, amicable not MLC connected divorce).

My friend had years of dating one woman after the other. Then he decided to marry one, it was going to be in Spring. It never happened.

Not saying your husband will not marry OW, just that with MLCers anything can happen.

It would be dishonest to say my feelings for Mr J's current version are what they are not. It wasn't always that way. At BD and in the early years it was the usual confusion of feeling LBS have.

Mr J left over 12 years ago and is still deep in Replay. Always finding a new thing to keep him from going to rock bottom. Mostly finding a new djing partner or a new place to go dj.

It seems him and OW2 are no more. The djing is still going strong. His main problem is the djing/clubbing. We have friends who also got into djing so those guys kind of not see anything wrong with the whole thing.

I saw Mr J about a year ago, by chance. I had went out to a concert, he was djing in town and I didn't even want to come near. The friend I was with and I meet the bands and other people at the concert, then everyone just went downtown. At a point, I knew we were going to end up were Mr J was djing.

Wasn't going to make a scene, so I went. It was fine. For me, at least. I went by the dj booth, said hi and Mr J freaked and was dead scared. I went back to where my friend was and keep talking. When leaving, Mr J put his hand on my left shoulder and said "so goodnight".

He and some other people were going to hit some place that was open till morning. Before I enter the place I saw SIL and OW2. I was very pleasant with both, greeted SIL and even smiled to OW2.

Mr J looked horrible and his music was lousy. Friend, who knows us since we're teenagers, but who hadn't seen Mr J in ages since Mr J lives in the capital was horrified at the music and keep asking what had happened for his music tastes to have changed.

There is no way I would want a thing to do with the version I saw. It seems he solves all his problems djing. Be it when MLC hit, when he left, when he and OW1 broke and now that OW2 seems to be gone.

He never stops. He himself told me more than once that he cannot stop because if he does he will start to think about all he had done and he cannot deal with it.

Maybe he should think how he lost the three women of his life. He will not, since as a dj he will have no trouble finding a new woman. Yet, somehow, I don't think he is that insterested this time. But since it was OW2 who went to him, he may not say no if one decides to date him.

[Believer]

It’s incredible the effort they can go to to avoid hitting rock bottom.

Mr J uses his djing and mine has been biking in100km races and distance running to keep him going.

In the few times I’ve seen my exH he tends to get teary. He even does this with our daughter, he’s hardly seen her since he left. He took her to dinner to tell her he was getting married. That didn’t go well and D shared exactly what she felt. In the end he was in tears.

I have no idea if he’ll ever come out of this. I can’t help to wonder if his stubborn personality is a factor in the length of his crisis. Hmm he’s is extremely skilled at avoiding conflict... not surprisingly

Good for you that you were so calm and collective when you crossed paths. I admire that you even smiled at OW2. I haven’t ever seen his OW, she lives 2.5 hours away. He goes there every weekend to visit, has been since he left. I’m not sure how I’ll react when I do.

I figure he must be just as conflict avoidant with OW. I don’t see how those characteristics can remain hidden.

[Anjae]

Yes it is. And for so many years.

Riding in 100km races! Phew! The things they do.

I only saw Mr J four times since I come back home over a decade ago. 2 times in social events, once in 2008 another in 2018, in 2007 when he come here with the excuse he need some files from our by then computer - he could had asked me to burn a CDR and sent it to him, and in 2014 at family court.

2007 he was still chatty. 2008 we cheek kissed, normal social greeting here and that was it. 2014 we didn't exchanged a word, but spend some time reading side by side in the court waiting room while our lawyers were with the judge. 2018 I already told.

Last time I heard Mr J crying was on the phone, May 2007. When I was still in the capital I would get a mix of tear, rage, violence, normal than it all again. Sometimes in minutes. Or days. Or hours. It was quite confusing.

Mr J is the king of conflict with me. Court cases, mostly very nasty and agressive if we happen to have contact, even just e-mail. We rarely have any contact. I couldn't deal with his mood swings and nastiness.

No idea how the post secret affair relationship with OW1 was or how the relationship with OW2 was.

He does not live here nor does OW2 (or OW1). It was easy to smile at her all those years down the road. She was the one with the man on the dj booth who had to spend the whole night not being able to talk to him or dance with him while in a place where people dance.