[Nas]

I think 1t will agree that the definition of discussion includes all forms of opinions on a topic. Disagreeing doesn’t become a problem until people cross the line and start responding with nastiness.
How many times is this subject going to come up? “If you don’t agree with a topic don’t post on it” has been said a few times and I just don’t understand it.
Isn’t that the same as saying “Don’t post unless you agree with what I think”?
Why the opposition to entertaining opposing viewpoints?
Or just ignoring them and moving on?

[BrenM]

Sadly many posters thrive on debating with everyone.  They will debate on almost every topic under the sun and IMO thrive on coming across as more superior or knowledgeable than others - irrespective if they have experienced the topic firsthand or not.  This repetitious daily behaviour raises many red flags personally for me.

Most LBS’s are emotionally raw and require much needed support.  Isn’t this what HS is about?  The majority of LBS’s are conflict avoidant, they don’t need anymore drama in their lives. All they seek is support from others who have experienced the MLC process. They are mentality drained from their experiences with the Mlcer and the manipulation of the OP.  Many have financial, mental and health issues that they are dealing with.  Make this a safe haven not a war battle ground.

IMO I find that most of the stronger LBS’s on here are old timers.  They have regained their strength due to the time. But sadly IMO some of these Old Timers have forgotten parts of their own journey.

[Anon]

I also believe you own a gigantic thank you to those of us who have been here for years on end doing daily work on your board. Be it mods, former mods, or old times. Even those who have been here for not than long.

I can’t help comment about this.   RCR is the founder, the person who launched the forum.   In spirit AT THE VERY LEAST, this is our forum.   I’m sure this board is here for our benefit way more than for RCR’s benefit.   Im not sure what purpose it serves her personally to “own” the board.   She set it up for our benefit, not hers.   I’ve been personally attacked here as well but did not expect intervention.from above.   If we keep hauling RCR in here to break up our fights then how much longer would she want to be the “owner” of such a forum?   I am grateful this board is here, thanks to her effort to create it.   I would like to acknowledge her incredible contribution with this whole website including the forum. 

   Anyone who does daily “work” on the board - what do you mean? If you are or were a moderator and the work is too much then step down.  But I’m not sure what you mean by daily work, Anjae.   Please explain. 

What I find disturbing is that once these threads start derailing there is no shortage of posters on EITHER side of the dispute that refuse to let it go and let the thread return to its original purpose.  To me that shows incredible disrespect to the person who started the thread - discussion thread or personal thread.

At the moment I am incredibly frustrated because this WAS a promising discussion thread that would have garnered much interest.   But now look at it - just another thread to throw onto the blown up pile.   Consider how you may have contributed to its demise instead of starting a blame game with RCR at the centre of it.

[Anjae]

"If you don’t agree with a topic don’t post on it” has been said a few times and I just don’t understand it.
Isn’t that the same as saying “Don’t post unless you agree with what I think”?

It is.

Why the opposition to entertaining opposing viewpoints?
Or just ignoring them and moving on?

I don't know. Those you do not like opposing viewpoints and who do not answer when they are asked questions may know. Thinking that only their point of view is valid? That a discussion thread they start is only for them and the ones who agree with them? That they don't have a good ansewr to what they asked or are afraid their answer leads to more questions? Who knows.

The problem here is a little more complicated than normal.

1trouble's first post says

But if you feel the need to rant, name call, compare notes  about OW/OM do it.

. 1troube herself is telling people they came name call OW/OM.

That is agains HS Code of Conduct.

One of 1troubl's offensive posts was removed. Mego's one were not. Then RCR come by said name calling was not a problem and falled upon me because I told people they shout abide by the Code of Conduct, that does not allow for name calling or hate.

Which one is it? Because, going by what RCR posted on this thread, name calling, crossing the line, etc. is fine. Asking people to follow RCR's own Code of Conduct and Mission Statement that forbid those things is wrong.

I cannot see the logic.

I don't know if 1trouble "definition of discussion includes all forms of opinions on a topic" because her post that was removed was aimed at me because I don't agree with her on a number of things.

As usual, bad behaviour is rewarded on HS.

Daily work Anon means work from the tech one to the suppor one. Who do you think does those things? Mods and in the case of support old timers and other as well.

Are you aware several of us have been mods, or were, for years on end? Mentors as well when the mentoring program existed. It was not RCR doing that, it was mods and mentors. It still is mods who do a lot, and several old timers and a few others. You do not see RCR around daily, do you?

RCR herself has posted more than once she does not hve time for HS. She relies, and had relied for years, on her mods, several of whom are now old timers. Some remain mods, some do not.

RCR, OP and all the mods know what I mean.

[Keep believing]

This thread is not about agreeing or disagreeing.  It is a form for some  lbs to rid stress. If venting of ow  helps release stress for you.then there is nothing wrong with that.   For those of you that venting and using harsh words does not help you heal or  release stress , this thread is not for you.  Not every thread is going to fit your part of the journey.  Thats all . Its that simple . No reason to discuss weather name calling ow is right or wrong.   Quite frankly it is a proven fact that swearing helps release stress . So similarly calling ow names is the same.

[Anon]

RCR, OP and all the mods know what I mean.

Anjae, come on,, I figured that’s what you meant which is why I referred to it in my own post.    Bigger question now is why do you persist like a dog with a bone  - you just can’t stand back and leave it alone, can you?

My last post - otherwise I become yet another poster that contributes to the blowing up of what could have been a good discussion thread. 

[Anjae]

Leave what alone, Anon? Name calling, abuse? It is very interesting how several of you become so upset with me and others, but not with abusers and name callers.

Is abuse and name calling something that should be let go? I don't think so.

If you do not appreaciate the work and hours put by current and former mods so that you can you be/use HS, well ...

I and other board members are not OW, Keep. Name calling and abuse HS members is a no-no.

Being fine with name calling and abuse, including of board members, says more of those of you who are fine with it than of those of us who are not.

Don't worry, Anon. 1trouble herself blew the discussion when she insulted me on a post of hers that was removed by the mods. Mego did it by insulting me and others.

[Keep believing]

So here goes...... one of the biggest thing that bothers me about ow , is she thinks she is better than me. She thinks h picked her. I kind of laugh about that. She just happened to be the one there.
Before i knew h was in mlc h had ow 1.  I actually ended that. ( another story). Next in line was the one he is with now. But she thinks she is special and im crazy , b!tc# and whatever else told her about me. 
Another thing is that every person told me their r wont last. Well its been 4 years. Ugh  How can that be? Either she is very manipulative, h is that controlled or they are in love. Or she just wants to keep the game going.

[Onward]

I think 1t will agree that the definition of discussion includes all forms of opinions on a topic. Disagreeing doesn’t become a problem until people cross the line and start responding with nastiness.
How many times is this subject going to come up? “If you don’t agree with a topic don’t post on it” has been said a few times and I just don’t understand it.
Isn’t that the same as saying “Don’t post unless you agree with what I think”?
Why the opposition to entertaining opposing viewpoints?
Or just ignoring them and moving on?

Bold statement above are my own added emphasis.

Nas, these are very interesting questions, and I am equally befuddled by the discomfort with differences of view. I find it particularly disappointing when what sets things off isn't even really disagreement, but a different view, or a post where someone offers their experience, or something to think about.

I can appreciate RCR's frustration on many levels - she already has a houseful to parent. And with due appreciation to Bren, I would certainly hope a group of adults who have, in most cases, been put on an involuntary path toward personal growth don't need a moderator to help them learn to get along with others, including those with whom they disagree.

One of the most interesting things about this forum is the range of perspectives and experience. I find there are some people with who I agree, some with whom I don't, some who I avoid, some who I seek out, and all of whom I learn something from.

For what it's worth, I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with a discussion thread where folks feel the need, and have the space, to work through difficult feelings. I think it can even be beneficial, because if this community can't hear people work through their frustration, who will?

But my spidy senses do stand on end a little, because it is very easy to tip into ugliness. And ugliness has a habit of sticking around.

Sadly many posters thrive on debating with everyone.  They will debate on almost every topic under the sun and IMO thrive on coming across as more superior or knowledgeable than others - irrespective if they have experienced the topic firsthand or not.  This repetitious daily behaviour raises many red flags personally for me.

Maybe. Or maybe they just have a different perspective.

Most LBS’s are emotionally raw and require much needed support.  Isn’t this what HS is about?  The majority of LBS’s are conflict avoidant, they don’t need anymore drama in their lives. All they seek is support from others who have experienced the MLC process. They are mentality drained from their experiences with the Mlcer and the manipulation of the OP.  Many have financial, mental and health issues that they are dealing with.  Make this a safe haven not a war battle ground.

Support comes in many different forms. Some of the most supportive people in my journey were folks who did not let me get away with feeling sorry for myself. That included LBS friends, my best friend in RL and my mother, who made it clear that "no daughter of hers" was going to sit feeling sorry for herself because she's been left by a man. That was within 2 months of BD, BTW. I never doubted they supported me when they called me on my self-sabotaging behaviours. (I didn't like it, mind you) 

IMO I find that most of the stronger LBS’s on here are old timers.  They have regained their strength due to the time. But sadly IMO some of these Old Timers have forgotten parts of their own journey.

Maybe. Tho I doubt it.

 

This thread is not about agreeing or disagreeing.  It is a form for some  lbs to rid stress. If venting of ow  helps release stress for you.then there is nothing wrong with that.   For those of you that venting and using harsh words does not help you heal or  release stress , this thread is not for you.  Not every thread is going to fit your part of the journey.  Thats all . Its that simple . No reason to discuss weather name calling ow is right or wrong.   Quite frankly it is a proven fact that swearing helps release stress . So similarly calling ow names is the same.

If you are referring to the the Keele University study, they also found that swearing to relieve pain was more effective for people who didn't do all the time. :-) 

I'm not sure calling people names is a logical extension. Name calling tends to dehumanize the person, and and when we dehumanize people, we lose our empathy for them.

[lawprofessor]

Good Evening 1trouble,

Well you had an interesting thought here but I see it's been blown to hell like so many other interesting topics before it.

I never called the OW names in my case nor was I angry with her.  She was a child when this nonsense began.  A child in almost all senses of the word.  She wore pigtails and carried a Hello Kitty backpack and wore a Hello Kitty jacket and watch.  She had no figure to indicate she was a woman and sucked on lollipops.  She wrote page after page emails about him being her knight in shining armour and how age differences were unimportant because she had an old soul.  They went to arcades together while in Russia rather than the Hermitage. 

No threat to me. 

That's not to say I don't understand the desire and even need to vent at times. 

What continues to bother me in relation to the original intent as I perceive it of the topic is the lack of understanding and use of the human emotion of anger. 

People have a right to be angry at times.  Anger is a human emotion.  I do understand some are conflict avoidant and so anger is hard for them to express and hard for them to be exposed to.  Yet, anger has its place in the human experience.

Anger, when directed properly, by self or with the help of others, can propel a person forward when little else will. 

Anger is a natural stage in healing just as is sadness and depression.  Some stay in sadness and depression stages much longer than others but those people get platitudes and understanding about well, it takes as long as it takes, feel the emotion, etc.  Yet those who express anger are spanked with little understanding, told to be bright and breezy, called bitter etc.  God help if someone had told me to have agape love for my ex when he was monstering at me yet again.  I thank God for those women who helped me channel my anger productively and make the most good of it rather than shower me with platitudes and tell me how I should feel.

For some the betrayal as well, has many additional betrayal layers.  We've had OW who were sisters, friends, relatives to name a few.  Then there are those that were blessed with bigger monsters than others, even violent monsters, not to mention the divide between Clingers and Vanishers.  And it's not everyone's goal to reconcile.  Personally, I'd rather he respect me and fear harming me again, then to swallow whatever garbage he tosses my way and pretend I'm bright and breezy with what he had done at the time as I believe love isn't possible without respect.

One size advice doesn't fit all.  And that should be OK.

In sum, being conflict avoidant is just as unhealthy and part of being codependent, as the opposite side of the coin, which is being angry and all that goes with anger including being controlling.  One is just more acceptable currently on HS. 

As to looking at and discussing the OW, at times I found it useful.  We gather information and compare and contrast in order to learn about MLC at certain stages.  The OW holds clues in my opinion to the process.  Mine reverted back to when his father began his affair with his OW for example.  Behavior fit.  OW appearance, behaviors, and mannerisms fit.  It answered some questions for me, for example.

Then I moved on.  Natural progression through stages.  Geez I'd rather deal with an angry person rather than someone stuck in victim mode any day.  That was a beautiful part of HS then.  No judgement.  No one size fit all.  The pendulum has swung too far one way. 

That's not to say we should be calling each other names.  But as someone who's been called many names on here, it's our choice whether or not to take the names personally or not.  I choose to not and that works for me. 

Lp